If you recruit a squad of 25 Yes Men, saying Yes sergeant Keane every minute, then you would have a motivated and obedient squad. See you in Championship....
Would Roy Keane excel at managing an elite team?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
I dont think you got what I was trying to say
When Fergi was famous with his hair-dryer treatment, he had his other side of man-management, such as how he handle CR, Rooney, Giggs. Current EPL clubs are complex enough, even mid-level clubs like Everton require multi-dimensional skillset. You have to address individual needs and concern, and try to motivate them. Good (or bad, depending on your perspective) examples are Conte, Rogers and Mourinho, and a host of failed managers coming out from Liverpool, Everton.
So, back to Keane. Was he a good footballer - I would say yes until his last 18 months at Utd. Was he a good manager, sorry, failed at Club level, average at Ireland. Was he a good pundit, it depends, may be you can be a good pundit being a 1-dimensional person.
My point is, anyone who only yell at players, can't even manage a U12 team, let alone a squad full of star players, coming from different countries and cultures.
Seems incredibly unlikely. Put him in a room alone long enough (say 30 mins) and he would fall out with himself.
Well, Fergie didn’t shield players as much as you think. He was a master of getting players do their best but shielding?
I don’t think Keane would be great as a manager for a big club. Assistent yes, but the one making calls? No. Not that he is bad. He is often right in what he says and truth can sometimes hurt. The big difference I see is how players are nowdays. They need to be taken care of in a different way then players 10-30 years ago. Players are to fragile nowdays.
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He's a nearly 50 year old man whose legs are gone and yet he still thinks that he can straighten a dressing room up through punching himself in. That's sad really. If Keano was manager at this time and age then such attitude would have him sacked, sued and probably thrown into prison as well. He'll also risk having his head busted by some player as they are younger, fitter, stronger and won't bend over backwards so easily like he did with Cloughie. He's not the only guy in football who come from a rough background and had learnt how to throw punches.
He's better off as a pundit. His wolverine impersonations are quite popular among the paying audience.
He's better off as a pundit. His wolverine impersonations are quite popular among the paying audience.
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I don't think he has the emotional intelligence for it
Gattuso is a good lad. When he left AC Milan he renounced his pay off in exchange that AC Milan would pay his coaching staff up till 2021. During the covid crisis he sacrificed part of his salary to cover furloughed club employees. That shows great man management skills.
No but I could easly see him as a member of the back staff. He could probably contribute something if he wasn't so hot headed all the time. And not all great football men were great managers. Queiroz springs to mind as an example of somebody who could spot talent but didn't really cut it as a manager.
Would end up getting decked or choked by one of his players trying to play badman.
Not everybody is scared nor impressed by that rah rah “I would have been throwing punches at halftime” frowning shtick of his.
Not everybody is scared nor impressed by that rah rah “I would have been throwing punches at halftime” frowning shtick of his.
Comparing Keane with Mourinho is a ridiculous comparison. One of them is past his best admittedly but one of the most successful managers of the modern game. The other barely got started despite every conceivable leg-up.
The point about self control is very astute though, the bollocking or joke or whatever it might be must always be for a purpose. We saw when Keane was raging against the dying of the light a public glimpse of what seem to be some real anger issues, I don’t think they’re for a purpose and important not sure you’d choose to be managed by him, whereas you’d rather have him on your team for fear he’d otherwise be opposition!
The biggest thing with Keane for me is, he’s relentless for holding grudges, and he’s very knee jerk.
I feel like a player would only have to make one mistake under him to be scrutinised indefinitely by him. That’s a double edged sword, because those players who are underperforming often need an arm around them and a bit of reassurance, which I don’t think Keane is capable of.
And on the other hand, those players who do 90% of their game well, being criticised for one minor flaw or mistake is going to create friction between the player and management.
Keane’s personality would be perfectly fine if as others have said, he wasn’t so one dimensional.
It’s about that balance of knowing when to lay it on thick with players and when to motivate/boost their confidence. For me, being patient with players during a bad run of form goes against what Keane is about as a person and ultimately as a manager.
Also, Keane seems to be unable to wrap his head around the fact that for better or worse, the changing room culture in Football has changed drastically since he was playing. The example he’s been used to of Ferguson being the manager and no one player being more important than him isn’t a thing in modern day Football, the power is well and truly with the players and until the manager can build the trust of that group, he is ultimately at their mercy.
I feel like a player would only have to make one mistake under him to be scrutinised indefinitely by him. That’s a double edged sword, because those players who are underperforming often need an arm around them and a bit of reassurance, which I don’t think Keane is capable of.
And on the other hand, those players who do 90% of their game well, being criticised for one minor flaw or mistake is going to create friction between the player and management.
Keane’s personality would be perfectly fine if as others have said, he wasn’t so one dimensional.
It’s about that balance of knowing when to lay it on thick with players and when to motivate/boost their confidence. For me, being patient with players during a bad run of form goes against what Keane is about as a person and ultimately as a manager.
Also, Keane seems to be unable to wrap his head around the fact that for better or worse, the changing room culture in Football has changed drastically since he was playing. The example he’s been used to of Ferguson being the manager and no one player being more important than him isn’t a thing in modern day Football, the power is well and truly with the players and until the manager can build the trust of that group, he is ultimately at their mercy.
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I'm staggered this is even a thread.
He has proven himself to be socially inept and that just about discounts him from any top job.
He has proven himself to be socially inept and that just about discounts him from any top job.
This. He doesn't understand other people imo and how emotions work.
I don't think he will last even a month at any elite club.
Of course not, it’s not even up for debate. Tactically he has already shown he’s not up for it, like many, many former players. It’s 20 years since he was on top, a lot of stuff has happened since then that’s for sure. Sports science, player power, tactical development, it’s on another level and one which he wouldn’t condone.
There is natural respect and charisma, then there’s just plain fear. You can only work under fear for a certain amount of time before it’s too much, just like it would be at any workplace in the world. Keane naturally wouldn’t act like a lunatic every day in the dressing room like when he’s on TV, but they would be tired of his endless talk about running, tackling and putting in an effort.
There is natural respect and charisma, then there’s just plain fear. You can only work under fear for a certain amount of time before it’s too much, just like it would be at any workplace in the world. Keane naturally wouldn’t act like a lunatic every day in the dressing room like when he’s on TV, but they would be tired of his endless talk about running, tackling and putting in an effort.
Please done put klopp in the same sentance as Fergie like that, they are different leagues
Could you apply that to saint pep if he tried and failed at a championship club?
I don’t think Keane done all that bad at management anyway did he?
Why were they afraid of Fergie?Why would elite players be afraid of Roy Keane? They're not children
The elite players in football are far, far more valuable and rarer than good managers. Only Pep and Klopp are an exception. It's the managers job to keep the elite players on his side.
Lads you need to give your head a wobble if you think Keane would be better than Ole. This is a manager who is despised by nearly everyone who played under him.
Look at his recent as assistant in the Irish squad where he went around accusing the players of faking their injuries so they didn't have to play.
Look at his recent as assistant in the Irish squad where he went around accusing the players of faking their injuries so they didn't have to play.
Far too emotional, I don’t know if he’s good tactically.
People seems to think that all it takes to manage is just attitude,
No it isn't enough. You actually need tactical nous and a well above average intelligence
No it isn't enough. You actually need tactical nous and a well above average intelligence
I think he would be quite similar to present day Mourinho. He would demand all his players to be fighters who are willing to die for him on the pitch, and while that may motivate some initially, I think it would fade over time. And someone like Roy, quite akin to Jose, would never be able to understand the reason for this perceived weakness of players and would eventually throw them under the bus.
But I still think at a club like Utd, or any big club with talented players, he would do well as a coach, provided the manager is someone he respects and to whom he'll listen when he invariably goes out of line. For instance from the way he speaks about Ole, you know he respects him, so something like that might work out.
But I still think at a club like Utd, or any big club with talented players, he would do well as a coach, provided the manager is someone he respects and to whom he'll listen when he invariably goes out of line. For instance from the way he speaks about Ole, you know he respects him, so something like that might work out.
Mourinho is much more emotionally intelligent than Keane. That's not to say that Mourinho excels in that regard but he can form bonds with players far better than Keane. I wonder if any players would follow Keane in the same way some like Zlatan came to United because of Mourinho.
Mourinho could form bonds with players who have that old school mentality. The likes of Drogba, Terry, Essien, Lampard, Eto'o, Zlatan. I struggle to think of any player in the last few years with whom he has formed a genuinely strong bond. Matic and Willian maybe and even they aren't exactly belonging to the younger generation.
I think it would be relatively short lived and also quite entertaining. Particularly once he started fighting his own players as he subbed them off the pitch.
He's what I'd imagine I'd be like as a manager. Heart in the right place and maybe even has a decent knowledge and understanding of the game , but errupts into a fit of rage 3 seconds into the game/training session when someone miss places a pass by half a centremetre. Might work for a limited period at a smaller club but once you're dealing with egos as big as your own it'll wear thin after about 2 hours.
He's what I'd imagine I'd be like as a manager. Heart in the right place and maybe even has a decent knowledge and understanding of the game , but errupts into a fit of rage 3 seconds into the game/training session when someone miss places a pass by half a centremetre. Might work for a limited period at a smaller club but once you're dealing with egos as big as your own it'll wear thin after about 2 hours.
Im not sure if Keane would excel but Id love to see it just for the entertainment value - there is something in the argument that says he would be better off with better players, seems obvious in a way but there is more to it because its far from a given that great small club managers (eg Sean Dyche or Eddie Howe) could translate that to a big club
I mean would Zidane do a good job with a small Spanish club? I doubt it but who knows
I mean would Zidane do a good job with a small Spanish club? I doubt it but who knows
I never got this notion that Pep would fall flat on his face at a lesser club.
Sarri (who is basically the btec Pep) worked his way to the top level by getting a series of lesser clubs competing by playing expansive football, not sure exactly why Pep wouldn't have been able to do similar if he had to.
I mean he won't now but why should he? If you were the CEO of Tesco would you give that up for evening shifts on the checkout?
Back in the day? Maybe. And that's a big maybe.
But today? Definitely not. Imagine Keane managing Pogba
I've worked under people like him who lambast you for any mistake, no matter how small. You work in fear and that causes you to make even more mistakes.
Then I've also worked with managers that are nice and know how to motivate you and protect you when your screw up. For those guys, I work much harder and do better work.
But today? Definitely not. Imagine Keane managing Pogba
I've worked under people like him who lambast you for any mistake, no matter how small. You work in fear and that causes you to make even more mistakes.
Then I've also worked with managers that are nice and know how to motivate you and protect you when your screw up. For those guys, I work much harder and do better work.
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Maybe Fellaini, which says it all
I don't think Keane behind the scenes is anywhere close to what he is like on the pitch or in front of the media. I think it was Neville who said Keane was extremely popular during his time at United.
Its actually crazy that people think he was always a ranting and raving lunatic during his time at Utd. He was the captain for 8 years of one of the most successful sides in club football, playing with the likes of Schmeichel, Stam, Neville, Beckham, Butt, Scholes, Giggs, and later Ferdinand, RVN, Rooney among many others. Do people really think these guys would have stood for some lunatic shouting at them for no reason? More to the point, do they think SAF would have stood for it? I have no doubt he had a go at his teammates if they let their standards drop, but they wouldn't have tolerated him if he was just raving all the time for no reason.
Players like actual systems and football that is enjoyable to play. Think he is someone who wants to outrun and out battle the opposition, get a goal etc.
Laughed out loud at the thought of this. A bit like an elite club appointing Paolo Di Canio as their manager.
Roy is too inflexible to be an effective manager. If you need someone torn down for not taking things seriously then Roy is your man. But if a player is lacking confidence because he hasn't scored in a few games, Keane would just as likely crush his spirit.
All stick, no carrot is Roy.
There is nothing in his managerial career that would indicate he could manage modern day elite players. Perhaps when you are thinking of certain characters/characteristics you are thinking of the type of robust personality that a bryan Robson brings to the table, but much like a keane type personality those types are few and far between in todays game and even then there is no evidence that Keane has the tactical acumen to give top players the type of instructions or management that would make him a success.
Despite what some on this forum seem to be reducing it down to, managing top players especially in today's game is about a hell of a lot more than just geeing them up and watching them go.
I think if anything he is more prone to outbursts now than when he was a player as he had some say physically on how a match turned out when he played, his time at Sunderland however and the occasional behind the scene outburst that you hear about tells you that he is probably a more frustrated character as a manager than as a player and that doesn't bode well for top level management.
Basically the only type of character he would suceed long term at managing is himself.
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Yes, maybe. He can't do much worse than Ole. Give him a go!