Would you be ok with finishing outside the top 4

[Andersons Dietician]

Outside top4 playing like Jose not acceptable. Outside top 4 going for games and playing asimilar brand to what we’ve done in pre season then acceptable to a certain extent.

It’s about seeing progress. If the football is improving and we can genuinely see a plan in place and a way we are going to play and we finish 5th then I can easily live with that. End up in the realms of 6th,7th and 8th then questions need to be asked.

 

[Jim Beam]

Yes... Under certain conditions.

Want to see clear attacking plan, attacking paterns, progressive tactics and team getting more and more used to it with ability to hold his own against City and Liverpool when we play them instead of hiding and being on the back foot.

Don't give a feck about top 4 trophy, building towards something potentially great is far more important. We end up 2nd with Mourinho. It was still clear we were only going in one direction.

 

[charlenefan]

If it meant exciting attacking football and the young players such as Tuanzebe, Garner, Gomes, Chong and Greenwood all got a proper chance in the first team?

Personally I would take that happily. The approach of signing ready made stars and safety first football we've had since Fergie retired has been awful to endure, despite relative success on occasion.

I know it's easy to get carried away with young players, but it feels like we have a real crop of talented youngsters coming through and it'd be great to see them get a proper crack and playing the right way, even if it means finishing 5/6/7th.

If you guaranteed me that the likes of Gomes and Greenwood are future stars and another season outside of the top 4 is needed to help them reach that then yes obviously. If we give them games only to find out they're actually not good enough then no

I mean your question is as much pie in the sky as is my answer tbf

 

[Hammondo]

Yes, really doesn't matter to me. We need development, not top 4.

 

[Mr Anderson]

All we ask is for our players to give their all and not do too many costly mistakes.

If that means being outside the top 4, that is then a reflection on the squad available to the manager. Costly mistakes and poor form will always fall back on the gaffer - hiding once more that the players at their disposal are simply not good enough.

We are still a few years off competing on all fronts. This summer should have been a clear out with at least 4 in. Woodie again is struggling to buy and sell.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Yes. The dominant premier league team not making CL repeatedly since Fergie left is crazy. It's like Juventus/Real/Bayern etc not making CL. It should be unthinkable.

It's the fact that some want to and want everybody else to accept it. I would next season at a pinch, if the kids get some minutes, I am not pinning my hopes on them. If it goes longer than that I certainly wouldn't be happy. Those kids need guidance on the pitch from top class players, not sure our senior players are up to that, they have enough problems dealing with their own game to guide a load of kids. If the club accept it over a number of years I will be worried. I would squarely be putting the blame at the board/owners door. We should be aiming to win something and definitely being in the Top 4 to progress further. Then we can think about challenging for the title after that.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

I would be happy expect that we miss out on cash and it might stop us strengthening.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I would be happy expect that we miss out on cash and it might stop us strengthening.

If we constantly miss out on the CL money it will definitely impact on the team, because the owners will make sure they get their little hand out each season.

 

[Tomuś]

In a nutshell, no.

 

[Jacob]

Consistency with a core philosophy is all I want.

My personal wishes for the United I support:
- Quick/direct attacking football - i.e. entertainment
- Home bias in terms of talent, spirit and style
- Being primarily self-made (academy players plus a few signings as complements)
- Buying the best emerging talent consistent with above (e.g. Sancho)
- Exciting players on wings! A trademark for United

Results are secondary to the above. Hopefully adherence to the philosophy reaps rewards.

 

[SecondFig]

Obviously I don't want to see us 5th, or 4th come to that. I want to see us win every time we play.

But, that's not realistic at the moment, and we don't have some divine right to finish in the top-4.

Personally, I'd rather finish 5th - with a season of attractive, attacking, football with several youngsters being given a chance - than grind our way to 4th (or 2nd) playing dire LvG/Jose shite

 

[Focusmate]

Definitely not ok! We finished 2nd just over a year ago and in most seasons we had enough points for a title challenge, standards shouldnt be lowered like this. last season was a right off and about as bad as it could get. We underperformed and were still in the fight for top 4.

Chelsea are much weaker this season and Arsenal are a mess. We have strengthened a bit, although nowhere near enough to challenge for the title, and its been frustrating, but we are the 3rd or 4th strongest squad.

We are favourites for 4th with a good shot at 3rd. Anything less is underperforming, and not good enough. Only get out is if Arsenal/Chelsea massively overperform and we get 75+ points and miss out.
Yes we love Ole and yes Jose was hated, but that 2nd place was seen as not good enough. We are not weaker now so how on earth is 5th ok now??

 

[JMack1234]

If we see a clear improvement in the side I won't be calling for Ole's head.

 

[dogwithabone]

We going to struggle to finish top 4, so we may as well use the youngsters.

Why are we going to struggle to finish top four ? I just don’t get this sort of stupid thinking. With any sort of remote form we’d have p*issed top four the season just gone and that was with a fractious squad and all sorts of turmoil going on.

Chelsea will be weaker, no Hazard and no signings. Arsenal will as always just be typical Arsenal, threaten then likely fall away. Spurs ? Not sure about them, any team losing as many football matches as they did in the season just gone cannot be certain of anything. VAR and some kamikaze opposition defending really did paper over the cracks of 20odd losses. City and Liverpool look the strongest but haven’t added significantly although their top 4 chances look secure.

We are well capable of finishing second or third. Winning it will be a season too soon.

 

[Tomuś]

Why are we going to struggle to finish top four ? I just don’t get this sort of stupid thinking. With any sort of remote form we’d have p*issed top four the season just gone and that was with a fractious squad and all sorts of turmoil going on.

Chelsea will be weaker, no Hazard and no signings. Arsenal will as always just be typical Arsenal, threaten then likely fall away. Spurs ? Not sure about them, any team losing as many football matches as they did in the season just gone cannot be certain of anything. VAR and some kamikaze opposition defending really did paper over the cracks of 20odd losses. City and Liverpool look the strongest but haven’t added significantly although their top 4 chances look secure.

We are well capable of finishing second or third. Winning it will be a season too soon.

You're being very optimistic there, mate.

 

[Jim Beam]

Hate to repeat myself but personally i dont give a feck about top 4 nonsense if its not 1st. Progression, something when season ends, we can look at it and say "yea i can see where this leads and i cant fecking wait", sorry but if those in charge dont betray the vision, we have to build ourselfs back up to the top.

My stance will never change, when it comes to goals, 5th plus FA cup > 4th any day of the week, i understand winning regardless of how is important but for some reason it doesnt do us any good in a long run, maybe its time to have wins as a result of our performances on the pitch.

We tried to fix our issues with throwing money away, didnt work. We tried to have one of biggest winners at the helm, winning spite of performances and things happening on the pitch, didnt work. We didnt learn from it, so we tried same shit under Ole, where performances were sacrificed the moment top 4 was at our reach and how that went at the end? We tried to hop from one manager to another, with almost no similarities between them, it didnt work. So can we for the love of God at least once try and let the DNA of this football club dictates the paths we gonna take into the future.

When it comes to youngsters, often you can read "not good enough" line in here, not good enough for who exactly? Did some of you just woke up from 6 years coma or what. It was never a question about youngsters being good enough or not, they are not worse than some seniors we have, on top of it as a bonus, they are on lower wages and they have potential maybe just maybe to be improved and shaped into proper United players. Also, when people try to defend a team selection, they throw "they are not ready" line, please, do you see what some of those experienced heads are doing during a game!? If kids are not ready in your mind just because of their age, what to say about some older ones, they are ready but shit?

All above i am talking from our perspective, in our current situation not in general. So top 4, why it seems so important.

For owners like Glazers and Kroenke, guess its money related. For United fans, some say it is, so we could attract world class players, sure but did you check our transfer dealings with CL and no CL on the table (post SAF)? I mean, its actually funny to go through those names we signed. Also, if i am not wrong, we managed to have CL back to back only once, ONCE. We shout about demanding players to actually wanna play for us and be here, while in the same time we use money and CL as a main lure. Maybe people just wanna watch us in CL, year in year out regardless of positive or negative impact on our future, something like Arsenal, get in CL, reach knockout, get your ass whooped by proper top tier team, same shit next year, how many back to back to back year will they be now in EL? 3? Damn, they really built on one 2nd and those 3rd and 4th spots in last 10 plus years.

Amen.

 

[red thru&thru]

If we miss out by a point or 2 and we have progressed, then I could stomach it. As long as there's been clear progress/plan of what type of football we're trying to play.

However, if we get none of the above and finish a few points off top 4, then it will be a real concern and something drastic at the club will need to be done...and I'm talking about the hierarchy.

 

[edgar allan]

Why are we going to struggle to finish top four ? I just don’t get this sort of stupid thinking. With any sort of remote form we’d have p*issed top four the season just gone and that was with a fractious squad and all sorts of turmoil going on.

Chelsea will be weaker, no Hazard and no signings. Arsenal will as always just be typical Arsenal, threaten then likely fall away. Spurs ? Not sure about them, any team losing as many football matches as they did in the season just gone cannot be certain of anything. VAR and some kamikaze opposition defending really did paper over the cracks of 20odd losses. City and Liverpool look the strongest but haven’t added significantly although their top 4 chances look secure.

We are well capable of finishing second or third. Winning it will be a season too soon.

We have strengthened in only one position and our weak midfield has lost our only consistent player.
If lukaku goes we will be depending on a 17 year old to score the goals for us, second place you think??

 

[Buster15]

I'd say everyone would take that because 4th is probably the best we can hope for anyway. If you're not gunna finish 1st, then 4th is as good as 2nd anyway.

It is nothing of the sort. Finishing 4th but being way behind 1st on points is completely different to finished 2nd just behind 1st.
I don't buy this reduction in expectations.
4th is the absolute minimum a club like Manchester United should be aiming for.
It should not be classed as a success.
4th is a success for teams like Arsenal.
1st is a success for teams like United.

 

[edgar allan]

It is nothing of the sort. Finishing 4th but being way behind 1st on points is completely different to finished 2nd just behind 1st.
I don't buy this reduction in expectations.
4th is the absolute minimum a club like Manchester United should be aiming for.
It should not be classed as a success.
4th is a success for teams like Arsenal.
1st is a success for teams like United.

100% but obviously it is realism.....we have the squad of a 6th place team.

 

[Buster15]

100% but obviously it is realism.....we have the squad of a 6th place team.

We were perfectly capable of a top 4 finish last season but completely blew it at the end.
I see our squad as 4th place providing they are coached and managed effectively.
You might well be right but I am slightly more optimistic than that.

 

[edgar allan]

We were perfectly capable of a top 4 finish last season but completely blew it at the end.
I see our squad as 4th place providing they are coached and managed effectively.
You might well be right but I am slightly more optimistic than that.

The optimism seems to be based on players that haven't performed in recent times suddenly becoming consistent top performers. I hope you are right but it is a longshot for me.

 

[wolvored]

Outside top4 playing like Jose not acceptable. Outside top 4 going for games and playing asimilar brand to what we’ve done in pre season then acceptable to a certain extent.

It’s about seeing progress. If the football is improving and we can genuinely see a plan in place and a way we are going to play and we finish 5th then I can easily live with that. End up in the realms of 6th,7th and 8th then questions need to be asked.

I think Ole will be given 1 season outside top 4 as long as the football is like the pre season, which I think it will be. If 1-2 youth players have stepped up to the mark and are playing to first team standard as well, then that will be a big plus.

 

[Icemav]

If it meant exciting attacking football and the young players such as Tuanzebe, Garner, Gomes, Chong and Greenwood all got a proper chance in the first team?

Personally I would take that happily. The approach of signing ready made stars and safety first football we've had since Fergie retired has been awful to endure, despite relative success on occasion.

I know it's easy to get carried away with young players, but it feels like we have a real crop of talented youngsters coming through and it'd be great to see them get a proper crack and playing the right way, even if it means finishing 5/6/7th.

No. We must target top 4 and personally I feel that it only happens with the development and flourishing of Mctominay, Gomes, Wan Bissaka and perhaps Greenwood and Axel (with cameos from others).

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

We have strengthened in only one position and our weak midfield has lost our only consistent player.
If lukaku goes we will be depending on a 17 year old to score the goals for us, second place you think??

He's right though, isn't he? In the sense of "if not now then when?", that is. Ole got the gig in the first place because he showed promise that he can achieve a top-four finish with a proper pre-season and a few tweaks here and there, after all. It's not like the three Londoners are pulling up any trees in the market either. United still have one of the biggest wage bills in the world of football and therefore the expectations should, at least up to some point, reflect this. We should be expecting more entertainment and better results on the pitch. If you replace "outside the top-four" with "would you accept an upper midtable finish with some nice football and many youngsters being given playing time", the whole prospect becomes much more ominous. That's Leicester, Wolves, and WHU's motto going into next season. This is why i also believe that Solskjaer's remark about us having to look over our shoulders as well as in front of us was to the point and a message toward Woodward and co.

Your comment on our current squad's capabilities is valid. But that's also why the fans should not be content with a second consecutive season of Europa League football. Will better performances be enough to convince our board to back Ole in the transfer market? It probably won't. Will it make them realise that after different styles and several managers were tried, many of these players can't become the backbone of a truly top-class side? No, they will probably keep handing out contract extensions left, right and centre. Will it help them understand that youngsters should be aided by more experienced players and nurtured by the club in a way that they'll become ready to win their place in the first team on merit instead of being given immense contracts based on their potential? I doubt it. In the end, any manager who's not Ferguson isn't an omnipotent figure. Can't be, it's not possible. He can create the environment for success, like Klopp and Pep, but the foundations must be laid down for him by the club. The lack of vision and ambition will condemn most good things Ole will create to hell. Mourinho, in his prickish way, talked about it. A teacher of football like LvG has mentioned it too (and he was among the very first people to talk about Woodward).

So, until we get our act together, i feel that we can't relinquish the bare minimum of targets for a club of our status. I can be realistic and cut Ole a lot of slack if i continue to see good things on the pitch but i will not lower my expectations just to match the Glazers' lack of ambition. If everybody who holds any seat at the club, from the owners to the manager, is OK with United going into next season with this squad, while this summer offers us a good opportunity to gain a headstart over Chelsea & Arsenal, they better fecking deliver. If it's going to happen with Tuanzebe, Gomes, Chong, Greenwood and James, all the better.

 

[Random Task]

We were perfectly capable of a top 4 finish last season but completely blew it at the end.
I see our squad as 4th place providing they are coached and managed effectively.
You might well be right but I am slightly more optimistic than that.

Yeah, we did kind of blow up toward the end of the season. I think the stress of playing under Mourinho and his eventual sacking took its toll on the players - at least that's what I'm telling myself.

 

[shaky]

Definitely not ok! We finished 2nd just over a year ago and in most seasons we had enough points for a title challenge, standards shouldnt be lowered like this. last season was a right off and about as bad as it could get. We underperformed and were still in the fight for top 4.

Chelsea are much weaker this season and Arsenal are a mess. We have strengthened a bit, although nowhere near enough to challenge for the title, and its been frustrating, but we are the 3rd or 4th strongest squad.

We are favourites for 4th with a good shot at 3rd. Anything less is underperforming, and not good enough. Only get out is if Arsenal/Chelsea massively overperform and we get 75+ points and miss out.
Yes we love Ole and yes Jose was hated, but that 2nd place was seen as not good enough. We are not weaker now so how on earth is 5th ok now??

I'd get a lot more enjoyment out of finishing 5th or 6th, while watching progressively better football that leaves us optimistic for the future, rather than yet another unconvincing season of depressing garbage while still scraping top 4 due to the relative poorness of the competition.

 

[El-Manos]

How about...fourth with just Gomes, Greenwood and Tuanzebe getting their chances?

This, / thread.

 

[Icemav]

I'd get a lot more enjoyment out of finishing 5th or 6th, while watching progressively better football that leaves us optimistic for the future, rather than yet another unconvincing season of depressing garbage while still scraping top 4 due to the relative poorness of the competition.

Yes I would agree if the league is particularly strong next year then it can be a justification for a 5th placed finish and still mean big progress that sets us up for the following season. But 4th would be a brilliant launch pad with CL football. Keeping someone like Pogba and attracting top talent becomes much harder without.

 

[Judas]

No I'm not, not for second. Even if its what I'm sadly expecting, it's not ok. Even if the kids gets lots of time and we're playing a better brand of football, it's no great positive if things still don't go well enough for top 4, because then the formula of our game plan clearly isn't right.

 

[Denis79]

I would be ok, it's going to be tight between 3rd and 6th, and those are the spots we're fighting for.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

I'd get a lot more enjoyment out of finishing 5th or 6th, while watching progressively better football that leaves us optimistic for the future, rather than yet another unconvincing season of depressing garbage while still scraping top 4 due to the relative poorness of the competition.

If our competition proves to be poor indeed, how a 6th place finish will be able to justify our performances as "progressively better"? Surely if the others are rubbish and we still manage to finish behind them, it won't reflect well on our season doings.

 

[K13]

Yes if we have developed a squad that the following season gives us a chance of making top 4 again on a regular basis.

I would prefer a gradual improvement that we can add to each season to become a top 4 regular again. Get back to the one or two quality signings, buy young and develop and get 4 good years out of each team before having to rebuild again.

 

[TRUERED89]

How about...fourth with just Gomes, Greenwood and Tuanzebe getting their chances?

That’ll do.

 

[shaky]

If our competition proves to be poor indeed, how a 6th place finish will be able to justify our performances as "progressively better"? Surely if the others are rubbish and we still manage to finish behind them, it won't reflect well on our season doings.

I wasn't saying the competition will be bad next year. Just pointing out that our top 4 finishes in recent seasons have been unimpressive in terms of overall performances during those seasons. Our league placings often reflected more on how bad everyone else was rather than how good we were. I don't see why another one of those seasons would be preferable to seeing signs of things actually coming together, regardless of our final league position. We have a young team, we might start the season slowly. If it all looks like it's really clicking in the 2nd half of the season, but we fall a couple of points short of whatever arbitrary number of points the 4 placed team finishes on, I'd be delighted.

 

[AJ Bullet]

I mean getting top four is great and all but then we wasted the opportunity last time we did get it in or won the Europa you wonder what the point is. I dont have the faith that this board would bring in anyone of a higher quality just because we had made it in the CL so its kind of a waste to make it, last time we came 2nd all we did was sign Fred anyway, hardly kicking on to the next level.

A team that looked interested and tried to play attractive football where the players looked happy to be on the pitch would be a better place to start and more likely than not that would lead to better things anyway.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

It shows how far the club has fallen for fans to be talking about being happy to finish 5th or below as long as we play ‘good football’ (which is arbitrary anyway).

If we finish top 3 I will be satisfied, below that no, not in the slightest, it will be a disgrace and Woodward will have a lot to answer for.

Bringing Ole in was a massive risk for Woodward, because if we do shit this season, Woodward is going to be the one that everyone blames not Ole. Especially when Ole isn’t being backed in the market properly.

Moyes, LVG and Mourinho were not United men so it was fine for fans to blame them, but everyone’s eyes have opened and we all know what the real problem is.

 

[fps]

Surely exciting attacking football means scoring lots of goals, no? How could we be that sort of team and still fall outside the top 4?

Agreed. I don't see the team scoring lots of goals and not being in the Top 4. The reality is too many goals are being conceded and not enough scored. But if there's one thing successive coaches have done with Man Utd it's set them up to be defensive, which ironically invites goals against. The best United sides, the opposition were so busy defending and worrying that they couldn't get forward at all. In comparison, recent United performances have involved, frequently, an oppo who look beaten at the first whistle, gradually grow into the game when United offer to much respect to them, and end up disappointed if they don't get at least a draw because the opposing team has been so timid.

The best thing Solskjaer could do would be to trust those ones he thinks are his genuine match-winners to just GO AND WIN THE MATCH. If that involves a change of shape and Pogba as a 10, then do it. If it involves dropping a big-name player so the ones he thinks can make the different are in the position to make a difference, DO IT.

 

[U-N-I-T-E-D]

I think we should be aiming for top 4 and I would be disappointed if we missed it. Even with the slide at the end of the season which OGS attributes to fatigue we finished 3rd from the point when he came in. This season with an actual right back, possibly a decent centre half and a host of really promising youngsters coming through and we should do as well if not better. Add to that Chelsea may not be great, same with Arsenal and it looks a little more likely.

Having said that, seeing United play in a high pressing, attacking way that OGS wants along with more time for the younger players to develop should be the real aim. If we do better than we have and we look good then that's great, we can't really affect how well the other teams play

 

[Lentwood]

There is zero point just keep finishing 4th/3rd and not challenging for the title so what I want to see is evidence of progress and evidence of a plan.