Would you be okay with state or state-backed ownership?

[georgipep]

Winning at any cost is extreme. However, winning is important.

Of course. It's a matter of what each one of us as fans are willing to accept as the cost.

 

[RedDevilRoshi]

That was why I queried it. He might be able to buy us, but it is all the rest, not just lining the Glazers pockets.

That’s what I’m thinking as well. On paper a good appt and he for me personally would be my 1st choice but the doubts are the same that I share with you. Does he have the funds required to improve the facilities, clear the debt and give ETH the budget he needs to take us to the next level? Of course an oil state ownership would be able to do all that but ideally if this guy can as well, then he’d 100% get my vote.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Would Ratcliffe have that sort of money, or to do everything we need would he have to be part of a consortium?

I don't really know, to me that's why the sale price is so important, obviously the less he could get us for the better.

I'd always thought he'd do it as part of some sort of consortium, but with him as the main man, and tbh that would fill me with alot more hope than some similar type of American takeover, and longterm a better feeling about things than a Oil state takeover, much as that maybe feels almost inevitable now.

 

[Rayman96]

We can try and outdo each other on who has the highest moral high ground till the cows come home.

What this question means to me is:

Would I care enough about potential human rights abuses over United winning.
If I'm honest I think about United 10x more than I do about situations throughout the world and my emotional attachment is much the same. That's just a fact.
Going by that, I think any doubts I had would be quickly swept away when the players and results start happening.

I kid myself on that I would always feel tarnished if I was a City supporter but that is just BS. They are the exact same people we are collectively with the same morals. If we had had their last decade we would have loved it.

I admit it, I wouldnt care less

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I don't really know, to me that's why the sale price is so important, obviously the less he could get us for the better.

I'd always thought he'd do it as part of some sort of consortium, but with him as the main man, and tbh that would fill me without alot more hope than some similar type of American takeover, and longterm a better feeling about things than a Oil state takeover, much as that maybe feels almost inevitable now.

Yeah. It is an American takeover that raises a red flag for me, in case they are the same as the Glazers. If Ratcliffe were involved as part of a consortium at least you would hope he will have the club and fans at heart. If it ends up a oil state, then it ends up an oil state. It is who the Glazers can get the most money out of.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Be careful if you say no, you will have whataboutery used against you and get accused of being Islamophobic.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

We can try and outdo each other on who has the highest moral high ground till the cows come home.

What this question means to me is:

Would I care enough about potential human rights abuses over United winning.
If I'm honest I think about United 10x more than I do about situations throughout the world and my emotional attachment is much the same. That's just a fact.
Going by that, I think any doubts I had would be quickly swept away when the players and results start happening.

I kid myself on that I would always feel tarnished if I was a City supporter but that is just BS. They are the exact same people we are collectively with the same morals. If we had had their last decade we would have loved it.

I admit it, I wouldnt care less

That is a good point, there was outrage about Qatar, but once the World Cup started, people got wrapped up in it and enjoyed it too much.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

That is a good point, there was outrage about Qatar, but once the World Cup started, people got wrapped up in it and enjoyed it too much.

And Qatar 2022 is voted to be the best world cup by far.

 

[George Owen]

And Qatar 2022 is voted to be the best world cup by far.

Just as they bought the WC, the middle east has enough money to buy trillions of bots to vote any poll they want.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

We can try and outdo each other on who has the highest moral high ground till the cows come home.

What this question means to me is:

Would I care enough about potential human rights abuses over United winning.
If I'm honest I think about United 10x more than I do about situations throughout the world and my emotional attachment is much the same. That's just a fact.
Going by that, I think any doubts I had would be quickly swept away when the players and results start happening.

I kid myself on that I would always feel tarnished if I was a City supporter but that is just BS. They are the exact same people we are collectively with the same morals. If we had had their last decade we would have loved it.

I admit it, I wouldnt care less

Very good take. Some of us would like to think that City, Newcastle, PSG supporters somehow have lower moral ground because they merely support their football team which is owned by a state. The fact is they are just like you and me. Good people and all that. Their wins are also as enjoyable as our win and means as much as we do, nothing more nothing less.

Many have already stated, where do we draw the moral line? The ME state supply most of the oil and gas in the world, they own major banks in the world, they are also investing and diversify their interest in many other sectors. Football investment is just another business.

I have personally lived and worked in Dubai for 5 years and travel frequently to Abu Dhabi. Before I went there, as usual, the western press paint a very negative picture of the situation there. Mind you I went the in 2005. Believe me, they are just like any other country with pros and cons with many good people. It's a nice country with good people and very high standard of living. I would like to believe that they have improved much more in 2023 now.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Just as they bought the WC, the middle east has enough money to buy trillions of bots to vote any poll they want.

Do you have evidence to back you up with such serious claim?

 

[Ish]

Yes, unfortunately.

 

[phelans shorts]

Do you have evidence to back you up with such serious claim?

I am laughing so much at calling bot farming a “serious claim”

I don’t actually think it was largely the bot farming, more likely just the decency bias combined with an exciting final. Doesn’t mean it was the greatest (it wasn’t anywhere near)

 

[iammemphis]

We can try and outdo each other on who has the highest moral high ground till the cows come home.

What this question means to me is:

Would I care enough about potential human rights abuses over United winning.
If I'm honest I think about United 10x more than I do about situations throughout the world and my emotional attachment is much the same. That's just a fact.
Going by that, I think any doubts I had would be quickly swept away when the players and results start happening.

I kid myself on that I would always feel tarnished if I was a City supporter but that is just BS. They are the exact same people we are collectively with the same morals. If we had had their last decade we would have loved it.

I admit it, I wouldnt care less

But would you wear a tea towel over your head though?

 

[Yakuza_devils]

I am laughing so much at calling bot farming a “serious claim”

I don’t actually think it was largely the bot farming, more likely just the decency bias combined with an exciting final. Doesn’t mean it was the greatest (it wasn’t anywhere near)

Okay

 

[Norman Brownbutter]

feck no. I dont even properly support the club now. I might watch the games, but I haven't put a single penny into the club in years for what should be very obvious reasons. If they sell to the cnuts, I wont even bother watching them anymore. They will be dead to me. Just another piece of shit club buying their way to the top so that cnuts can wash their shitty reputations. We have already seen that sports washing works with the World Cup. feck supporting a club that takes part in this level of gaslighting. I cant believe any of you would, we aren't city fans ffs.

 

[Newtonius]

That ship has not sailed - it can still get a lot worse. The football world still revolves to a large extent around European club football. But we've lost FIFA, who clearly no longer cares much about that - to them their revenue streams lie elsewhere, and they have become the clients of moneyed interests elsewhere. We only conditionally and partly still have UEFA on board - they'll resist any independent encroachment like the ESL because that basically takes their revenue, but at the same time they've proven again and again that they don't really care if their own revenue-producing tournaments go against the interests of the national leagues. They will both continue to try to suck as much as possible of the finite resource of top player game time into international and global tournaments and away from national leagues and cups, because that's where their money is and that's what their patrons want.

The fundamental economic realities of the game have shifted the power and hence the focus - away from the local, and towards the global. The main bulwark keeping things in place is the continued commitment of Europe's dozen or so big clubs to their national leagues - a commitment which the ESL debacle showed to be more than a little shaky. The moment they break out, the European pyramid is dead as anything other than a recruitment system and a second- or third-rate competition. Neither American or mid east owners have any intrinsic attachment to the European club system. The Americans will be attracted by the commercial potential of a closed league, but the mid-east owners will additionally be attracted by the possibility to shift the prestige of top clubs to a more global stage, and by the expansion of international tournaments (both club and national teams) that are more directly relevant to their own home constituencies. Right now, only 2-3 of that dozen clubs are owned by sovereign oil money, if that becomes 6 or 7, we're looking at a very different reality.

So I think it's really quite myopic to think only in terms of how oil money ownership would work for United, in isolation.

Frankly i have always thought any kind of subjective moral argument to be garbage when you are talking about sums this big but this is absolutely the best argument against it in this thread, especially when the conversation is about a global powerhouse like United and these big state takeovers have generally been the relatively smaller clubs.

 

[Tigersam]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...ited-Qatari-investors-make-bid-club-DAYS.html

Could we end up with both Manchester teams in the Vanararma League (North) come 2030?

 

[MrBest]

As long as they are not American (apologies to any Americans) and they care about the future and success of the club, im easy. We can debate politics all day, but this is football and when the offer is dangled in front of you, new stadium, transfer funds, development of OT, I think many would move away from the issues that surround Middle Eastern nations. Every country has an issue with itself, America is full of racists and fascists, UK is run by a bunch of looney tunes, Spain and Italy have lot of corruption and the list goes on.

My only requirement is they treat the club right and keep it out of politics.

 

[SecondFig]

My only requirement is they treat the club right and keep it out of politics.

Which you utterly cannot do if you're a nation-state (or a puppet of a nation-state).

Personally, I'd happily take another decade of the Glazers over being owned by a Gulf state. And I'm not picking out the Gulf states because they're particularly awful - plenty of countries have appalling human rights records, huge inequality, and massive carbon footprints. But the Gulf states are pretty much the only nation states buying football clubs - I very much doubt that our next owner will be Venezuela, Ethiopia or the United States.

Of course, the absolute ideal is being majority fan owned, and failing that, being owned by rich individuals or consortia with genuine love for the club. But those are both unlikely, so I'd honestly prefer that the Glazers leech another few billion out of the club. At least that way I can keep supporting United (and keep complaining about how awful our owners are). If we get bought by Qatar/Dubai/Saudi etc I'm out

 

[Belisarius]

Which you utterly cannot do if you're a nation-state (or a puppet of a nation-state).

Personally, I'd happily take another decade of the Glazers over being owned by a Gulf state. And I'm not picking out the Gulf states because they're particularly awful - plenty of countries have appalling human rights records, huge inequality, and massive carbon footprints. But the Gulf states are pretty much the only nation states buying football clubs - I very much doubt that our next owner will be Venezuela, Ethiopia or the United States.

Of course, the absolute ideal is being majority fan owned, and failing that, being owned by rich individuals or consortia with genuine love for the club. But those are both unlikely, so I'd honestly prefer that the Glazers leech another few billion out of the club. At least that way I can keep supporting United (and keep complaining about how awful our owners are). If we get bought by Qatar/Dubai/Saudi etc I'm out

I would also prefer the Glazers to Oil money ownership. I don't want to beat City and Chelsea at their own game. I want to beat them with resources generated by the club and I think we can. Success bought from deep pocketed owners will feel empty.

 

[bringbackbebe]

No. I will not be ok with state ownership & being used as a front for sports washing, but I'd still continue support United because this club will always be more than its owners. For me, the best case scenario will be Glazers continuing, but someone bringing in 1.5b for a 25% stake to pay off debt & help redevelop OT.

 

[The Boy]

English football's history is deeply tied in with various social movements, working class identity and all sorts of politics. Now the premiership is watched globally, I imagine for many it is just entertainment, but even with that globalisation, Manchester United, like most English clubs, remains an important community asset within what remains a working-class city.

To be owned by the Saudi's or any other nation state would corrupt all of that and go against the entire history of your club. An absolute monarchy ruling a country with almost no workers' rights is anathema to that.

Too many clubs have already been cut off from their working class roots, it's one of the reasons United and Liverpool are still begrudgingly respected by so many.

If all you want is entertainment, limitless funds and no history or morals, I'd recommend PSG or City.

 

[Castia]

If Qatar come in with a 8B bid and promise to invest in the stadium and squad etc there’s no contest I give zero fecks where they come from.

 

[FrenchRed]

Which you utterly cannot do if you're a nation-state (or a puppet of a nation-state).

Personally, I'd happily take another decade of the Glazers over being owned by a Gulf state. And I'm not picking out the Gulf states because they're particularly awful - plenty of countries have appalling human rights records, huge inequality, and massive carbon footprints. But the Gulf states are pretty much the only nation states buying football clubs - I very much doubt that our next owner will be Venezuela, Ethiopia or the United States.

Of course, the absolute ideal is being majority fan owned, and failing that, being owned by rich individuals or consortia with genuine love for the club. But those are both unlikely, so I'd honestly prefer that the Glazers leech another few billion out of the club. At least that way I can keep supporting United (and keep complaining about how awful our owners are). If we get bought by Qatar/Dubai/Saudi etc I'm out

I was about to post the same, but in a less eloquent way. Totally agree.

As bad as it is now, state ownership would wash away any vestiges of the club I have loved for so long. I’d be out too.

 

[croadyman]

No. I will not be ok with state ownership & being used as a front for sports washing, but I'd still continue support United because this club will always be more than its owners. For me, the best case scenario will be Glazers continuing, but someone bringing in 1.5b for a 25% stake to pay off debt & help redevelop OT.

No minority investment whatsoever thank you

 

[croadyman]

If Qatar come in with a 8B bid and promise to invest in the stadium and squad etc there’s no contest I give zero fecks where they come from.

Yeah that's all the guarantee I need but know many can't see past what Qatar stand for

 

[TheLord]

After a decade of mediocrity, I care less who owns the club as long as we start winning meaningful titles again.

Politics in most forms is evil anyway. So why not?

 

[ForeverRed1]

I would but I’d want them to keep the heritage. As a club it’s pretty self sufficient. We just need investment around the club ie the stadium, training facilities and paying off debts. If those three things can be ticked off they can sit back and enjoy the football pretty much.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

So you want another window like January where we had to bring in purely loans

Considering the outlay in the summer, yes. Would be a pretty boring world where we could just get anything we wanted at any time with no repercussions. It’s the stakes and challenges that make things engaging and meaningful.

I mean, who’s entertained by playing FiFa on amateur level all the time or FM with limitless resources apart from a child?

 

[croadyman]

Considering the outlay in the summer, yes. Would be a pretty boring world where we could just get anything we wanted at any time with no repercussions. It’s the stakes and challenges that make things engaging and meaningful.

I mean, who’s entertained by playing FiFa on amateur level all the time or FM with limitless resources apart from a child?

I just want them to invest heavily in improving infrastructure,ground and facilities which Glazers can't be arsed with so that's why I want new ownership before the summer

 

[The Boy]

I just want them to invest heavily in improving infrastructure,ground and facilities which Glazers can't be arsed with so that's why I want new ownership before the summer

You don't need an oil state to do that

 

[croadyman]

You don't need an oil state to do that

I just don’t think Ratcliffe could compete with them if they get involved that's all I'm saying

 

[Suv666]

No but it is what it is.
The day the club was put up for sale it was obvious only ME can afford it, i’ve made peace with it.

 

[CloneMC16]

I can't wait until we're actually serious again. I don't care who makes it happen.

Nobody with great morals can afford this club.

 

[jimmyb2000]

Wasn't there once speculation that Colonel Gaddafi was interested in buying United?

 

[The Boy]

I just don’t think Ratcliffe could compete with them if they get involved that's all I'm saying

That's fair enough, looking at Nice I'm not sure Ineos would be the great owner that some hope for. But being owned by a nation state would cut off United from all it's working class roots, United has such a rich history and becoming state owned goes against everything that has stood for.

 

[Pearl.Jam]

Absolutely fine with it as I’ve been supporting Utd for 40+ years so there is no god damn way on earth I’m giving that up no matter who owns us and it will always be that way. 18 years of utter cvnts ‘owning’ us I feel we’re due a shit load of goodness, the owners can lop as many heads off as they please if it means no more McTominay masquerading as a Utd midfielder.

 

[Ole'sattheWheel]

I’d take them so long as they don’t break any rules and have our reputation tarnished like city’s have. Just clear the debt during the purchase, invest using the clubs legit income and do it all legitimately.

 

[ForeverRed1]

I’d take them so long as they don’t break any rules and have our reputation tarnished like city’s have. Just clear the debt during the purchase, invest using the clubs legit income and do it all legitimately.

I’m sure new owners will be taking notes, Newcastle included.