Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll added)

Sack or Keep OLE?

  • Sack

  • Keep


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jackal&hyde

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This isnt true at all. Maybe for you. But who are you to talk for everyone else? If you find yourself fickle and too emotional to make a logical decision, thats on you. Dont pretend you talk for everyone else. I hate when some people think their opinion is the right one and they and only they can talk about how all fans think and feel.
Give me a break. Flopp and naive was how he was decribed by the vast majority. Finished 8th. Few would have been sad to see him go at the time (from pool). I also hate it when some judge things in hindsight.

The point with both Klopp and SAF is that when you want to make massive changes to how a team plays and trains you are going to have a "down" period, especially when the squad is not exactly WC. Fans, me included, can't usually see this far, it's all game to game. Ole might fail, but to judge in november in his first year means that we learned nothing from the past. And so, my comment that as fans we are emotional and reactive rather then seeing the big picture. Is that offensive in some way?:lol:
 

BlueHaze

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I wouldn't say that's true and even then, it's not a glowing indictment of him as in general the defensive standards of the league are quite poor right now. Look at Spurs and Arsenal for example. Liverpool are the only team with a truly top pairing (and Maguire would not get into their team).

Maguire is probably a big upgrade on Jones or Bailly, but he wasn't a massive upgrade on Smalling, he's better, but not much better. He hasn't improved our defense to the level you would expect from an £80m player. He cost us a shit tonne of money that would've been better spent on other areas of the pitch.
You are right that it would be better spent in other areas but we really needed a CB. Harry has been decent so far. Smalling should not have been sent on loan though.
 

Adnan

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But who are they? We've clearly invested in players that are massive upgrades on what we already had, so I'm not sure how you can say Ole has bought poorly. We've got to start somewhere.
Ibrahima Konate currently at RB Leipzig would've been a much better fit in comparison to Maguire IMO. Nikola Milenkovic at Fiorentina would've been a better longterm addition too IMO and would've cost nowhere near the £80m we paid for the former Leicester player.

A fullback in the modern game must be able to link with the attack and have the natural instinct to exploit space on the flanks. AWB in that regard is comfortably inferior to his English compatriots Trent Arnold and Aarons IMO who are both younger than him. Spending £50m plus on a fullback who has attacking limitations wasn't a great idea or a good signing no matter how anyone wants to sugar coat it.

I don't think Maguire has as yet proved that he's a massive improvement over Chris Smalling. To state otherwise is a huge over exaggeration on your part. AWB being a upgrade on young and Valencia who are/were, past their best and have been for a number of seasons now, doesn't make him a good signing either.

There's literally players in droves playing for midtable clubs around Europe who could've been comfortable upgrades to our fullback options and CBs for the fraction of the £130m we spent on AWB and Maguire.
 

ash_86

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I wouldn't say that's true and even then, it's not a glowing indictment of him as in general the defensive standards of the league are quite poor right now. Look at Spurs and Arsenal for example. Liverpool are the only team with a truly top pairing (and Maguire would not get into their team).

Maguire is probably a big upgrade on Jones or Bailly, but he wasn't a massive upgrade on Smalling, he's better, but not much better. He hasn't improved our defense to the level you would expect from an £80m player. He cost us a shit tonne of money that would've been better spent on other areas of the pitch.
Of course Maguire would get into livepools defense. Livepool defense has been hardly gold standard this season. Us and livepool have the same number of clean sheets this season says a lot about their defense standards.

We conceded 55+ goals last season with smalling at the back and half season of Jose two banks of four and still conceded lot of goals even against poor opposition.
 

Rhyme Animal

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Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
Give me a break. Flopp and naive was how he was decribed by the vast majority. Finished 8th. Few would have been sad to see him go at the time (from pool). I also hate it when some judge things in hindsight.

The point with both Klopp and SAF is that when you want to make massive changes to how a team plays and trains you are going to have a "down" period, especially when the squad is not exactly WC. Fans, me included, can't usually see this far, it's all game to game. Ole might fail, but to judge in november in his first year means that we learned nothing from the past. And so, my comment that as fans we are emotional and reactive rather then seeing the big picture. Is that offensive in some way?:lol:
Didn't Klopp reach a European final in his first half season with Liverpool? Liverpool's first European final since 2007...

And then again in his first full season?

And also finished 4th in his first full season?

So yeah, that'd mean Ole's already a final placing behind him, and this season will need to finish 4th and guide Utd to a EL final before he's matched Klopp's 'low point' at Liverpool...
 

jackal&hyde

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Forget the two cup finals if Ole finishes 4th this season very few will be complaining.

We’ll soon be able to put the Klopp comparison to bed once and for all because Ole’s results in comparison will slip further and further behind and we aren’t going to finish 4th. By end of season he may have even lost more Premier League games at Utd than Klopp has at Liverpool.
It's possible and maybe even likely. Right now however, doesn't he have more points then Klopp had in the same number of games?
 

BlueHaze

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Ibrahima Konate currently at RB Leipzig would've been a much better fit in comparison to Maguire IMO. Nikola Milenkovic at Fiorentina would've been a better longterm addition too IMO and would've cost nowhere near the £80m we paid for the former Leicester player.

A fullback in the modern game must be able to link with the attack and have the natural instinct to exploit space on the flanks. AWB in that regard is comfortably inferior to his English compatriots Trent Arnold and Aarons IMO who are both younger than him. Spending £50m plus on a fullback who has attacking limitations wasn't a great idea or a good signing no matter how anyone wants to sugar coat it.

I don't think Maguire has as yet proved that he's a massive improvement over Chris Smalling. To state otherwise is a huge over exaggeration on your part. AWB being a upgrade on young and Valencia who are/were, past their best and have been for a number of seasons now, doesn't make him a good signing either.

There's literally players in droves playing for midtable clubs around Europe who could've been comfortable upgrades to our fullback options and CBs for the fraction of the £130m we spent on AWB and Maguire.
If Man Utd came calling for Konate or Milenkovic we'd be taken to the cleaners. They would probably demand at least £60m just because its us. But yeah those are 2 very talented young centre backs. I'd much rather have either of them next to Harry rather than Lindelöf. Preferably Milenkovic because of his top notch aerial game.
 

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Of course Maguire would get into livepools defense. Livepool defense has been hardly gold standard this season. Us and livepool have the same number of clean sheets this season says a lot about their defense standards.

We conceded 55+ goals last season with smalling at the back and half season of Jose two banks of four and still conceded lot of goals even against poor opposition.
We were shite at the back last season but a lot of that was due to DDG (much better this season) and a lack of any real options (helped this season by AWB and Shaw earlier on), we are also an incredibly defensive team for the most part this season.

Anyway, you can only judge players on what you see and I really haven't seen anything from Maguire here nor during his time at Leicester to suggest he's anywhere close to the level of defender you'd want him to be for such more or anything more than a modest/good upgrade on our defense. I certainly don't think he's a "massive" upgrade on Smalling, but then I've always felt Smalling was underrated by Utd fans. This isn't new either, I said the exact same thing when we were linked with him.

Ultimately I just think it was a poor way to splash the majority of our budget given other areas are far more of an issue than CB.
 

jackal&hyde

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Didn't Klopp reach a European final in his first half season with Liverpool? Liverpool's first European final since 2007...

And then again in his first full season?

And also finished 4th in his first full season?

So yeah, that'd mean Ole's already a final placing behind him, and this season will need to finish 4th and guide Utd to a EL final before he's matched Klopp's 'low point' at Liverpool...
I hope you understand that my point is not to say that Ole is as good as anyone else but that even WC managers, including SAF and Klopp need a couple of seasons of pain untill things fall in to place when the job is rebuilding of both the playing squad as well as the phylosophy and fitness.
 

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Didn't Klopp reach a European final in his first half season with Liverpool? Liverpool's first European final since 2007...

And then again in his first full season?

And also finished 4th in his first full season?

So yeah, that'd mean Ole's already a final placing behind him, and this season will need to finish 4th and guide Utd to a EL final before he's matched Klopp's 'low point' at Liverpool...
I can't believe people are trying to compare Ole to Klopp to defend him. A new low.
 

Massive Spanner

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I hope you understand that my point is not to say that Ole is as good as anyone else but that even WC managers, including SAF and Klopp need a couple of seasons of pain untill things fall in to place when the job is rebuilding of both the playing squad as well as the phylosophy and fitness.
And his point was that Klopp was doing far, far better with Liverpool in the same time period as Ole has been with us so your point is stupid.
 

jackal&hyde

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And his point was that Klopp was doing far, far better with Liverpool in the same time period as Ole has been with us so your point is stupid.
He had less points in the same number of games so how was he doing much better? Did he have the best defense in chances created against? Nope, we do.
 

Massive Spanner

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He had less points in the same number of games so how was he doing much better? Did he have the best defense in chances created against? Nope, we do.
That's bollocks though because Klopp took over in October and Ole took over in December. Ole's stats are also massively skewed by his results when he was still in the caretaker role.

In Liverpool's first 11 games in his first full season he had 26 points. Ole has 13.
 

Roboc7

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It's possible and maybe even likely. Right now however, doesn't he have more points then Klopp had in the same number of games?
I doubt it, haven’t seen that stat for while so I assume Ole is now behind.

11 games into his first full season in charge (same point Ole is at now), Liverpool had 26 points. That’s a fair comparison and unsurprisingly given he is a much better manager it shows Klopp was doing a better job.

Liverpool went on to finish 4th, it wasn’t perfect but there was clear progress in how they were playing and in terms of performance.
 

jackal&hyde

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That's bollocks though because Klopp took over in October and Ole took over in December. Ole's stats are also massively skewed by his results when he was still in the caretaker role.

In Liverpool's first 11 games in his first full season he had 26 points. Ole has 13.
Skewed how? He was the manager. Game for game Ole has more points. It sounda strage given what Klopp has achieved, 3 years later, but it is what it is. Rebuilding is a massive job, that is my point, even for a WC manager.
 

jackal&hyde

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Want to hear another stat? This season we won or draw against the "top six" and we were 5 min to end pools unbeatable run (still ended their winning run). That speaks of tactical understanding. We give him some credit for this?:)
 

Adnan

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If Man Utd came calling for Konate or Milenkovic we'd be taken to the cleaners. They would probably demand at least £60m just because its us. But yeah those are 2 very talented young centre backs. I'd much rather have either of them next to Harry rather than Lindelöf. Preferably Milenkovic because of his top notch aerial game.
Konate wouldn't have been cheap that's for sure, but he would've been a better longterm signing in comparison to Maguire IMO. And I believe he would've cost around the £50m to £60m mark. I think that fee would be reasonable for a 20 year old who is already considered amongst the best CBs in Germany and is brilliant at defending space behind him in a high-line due to his amazing pace and athleticism. He's also brilliant at defending deep due to his aerial game which is very impressive already at 20. He's the closest CB i've seen who could potentially reach Van Dijk levels.

Milenkovic was available for £45m according to Di Marzio but we opted against signing him, after enquiring about the player.
 

Rhyme Animal

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Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
I hope you understand that my point is not to say that Ole is as good as anyone else but that even WC managers, including SAF and Klopp need a couple of seasons of pain untill things fall in to place when the job is rebuilding of both the playing squad as well as the phylosophy and fitness.
Yeah, but my point is that the far more recent and relevant of those examples - Klopp - didn't really have 'a couple of seasons of pain'...

He reached a European final in his first half season, and then finished 4th and reached another European final in his first full season!

This narrative is dangerous and has to stop.

Solskjaer is a League 1 level manager - after failing in the Championship and being sacked by Cardiff, no other Championship side ever came in for him - IN YEARS.

The situation of having someone like that take over an Elite, wealthy club like Utd is unprecedented.

It's a surreal situation that has left the fanbase confused and dizzied by the incredibly left-field nature of the appointment.

But the reality, beneath the confusion, is simple enough - it's a stupid, badly thought out appointment by a board that is inept to historic levels.

And even mentioning this manager in the same sentence as Fergie, or even Klopp, is something that needs to stop, with immediate effect.
 

romufc

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Skewed how? He was the manager. Game for game Ole has more points. It sounda strage given what Klopp has achieved, 3 years later, but it is what it is. Rebuilding is a massive job, that is my point, even for a WC manager.
When Klopp took over he did not have
Pogba, DDG, Lukaku, Martial, Rashford etc.

Klopp had pedigree and from the first season, you could see an identitiy developing. He wanted to press high, play good football.

What is Ole's identity?

Want to hear another stat? This season we won or draw against the "top six" and we were 5 min to end pools unbeatable run (still ended their winning run). That speaks of tactical understanding. We give him some credit for this?:)
Yes, the same tactics that had Jose criticised. Defend Defend Defend.

Leicester we played terrible

Arsenal was probably one of the worst games of football for two so called big teams. a draw to Arsenal at home in their current state is nothing to be raving about

Chelsea was first game of the season where Lampard didnt know his best team.
 

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Skewed how? He was the manager. Game for game Ole has more points. It sounda strage given what Klopp has achieved, 3 years later, but it is what it is. Rebuilding is a massive job, that is my point, even for a WC manager.
You'd have to be blind to think Ole has been doing as good a rebuild in his time here as Klopp did in the same period.
 

lysglimt

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I wouldn't say that's true and even then, it's not a glowing indictment of him as in general the defensive standards of the league are quite poor right now. Look at Spurs and Arsenal for example. Liverpool are the only team with a truly top pairing (and Maguire would not get into their team).

Maguire is probably a big upgrade on Jones or Bailly, but he wasn't a massive upgrade on Smalling, he's better, but not much better. He hasn't improved our defense to the level you would expect from an £80m player. He cost us a shit tonne of money that would've been better spent on other areas of the pitch.
Look at the amount of chances our opponents create - with a fairly mediocre midfield. Look at the number of saves DDG has to make - and tell me that our defense hasn't improved a lot.
 

Bestietom

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Ibrahima Konate currently at RB Leipzig would've been a much better fit in comparison to Maguire IMO. Nikola Milenkovic at Fiorentina would've been a better longterm addition too IMO and would've cost nowhere near the £80m we paid for the former Leicester player.

A fullback in the modern game must be able to link with the attack and have the natural instinct to exploit space on the flanks. AWB in that regard is comfortably inferior to his English compatriots Trent Arnold and Aarons IMO who are both younger than him. Spending £50m plus on a fullback who has attacking limitations wasn't a great idea or a good signing no matter how anyone wants to sugar coat it.

I don't think Maguire has as yet proved that he's a massive improvement over Chris Smalling. To state otherwise is a huge over exaggeration on your part. AWB being a upgrade on young and Valencia who are/were, past their best and have been for a number of seasons now, doesn't make him a good signing either.

There's literally players in droves playing for midtable clubs around Europe who could've been comfortable upgrades to our fullback options and CBs for the fraction of the £130m we spent on AWB and Maguire.
I think that Lindelof is gone back since Maguire came here. They are not good together and we may need another CB if Tuanzebe don't fit in. Smalling and Maguire would be better partnership. Keep Ole for another 2 windows.
 

Roboc7

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I hope you understand that my point is not to say that Ole is as good as anyone else but that even WC managers, including SAF and Klopp need a couple of seasons of pain untill things fall in to place when the job is rebuilding of both the playing squad as well as the phylosophy and fitness.
Where were the couple of seasons of pain?. Pep finished 4th once and Klopp 4th in first full season. They didn’t have their teams playing anything like as bad as we are. All you are really saying is a much worse manager needs much longer to do a worse job which I agree with.
 

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Ron Atkinson was sacked because Utd were near the bottom the league about a third of way through season. The statistics about this being our worst start to a season since 1986 are because of that start. Atkinson also finished the previous season poorly so it’s quite easy to see why he was sacked. He at least did so badly in that final season that Ole has some way to go before he is as bad.

The manager does matter, Ole got the job due to one winning run and having played for us. Appointing him was a punt which is fair enough, but you can’t get more stupid than trying to build a long term strategy around that initial punt.

All comparing Ole to other managers does is highlight how much we have handicapped ourselves by appointing such a limited manager.
Excellent point. Yes it's actually pretty weird talking about long term planning with Ole when in fact the club wasn't even planning to get him and hired him only as a caretaker, just to make it permanent after a honeymoon period. Not like this appointment was planned by the board or anything. They just found him winning and doing well so they decided ok, scrap all the talking about Dof and new manager in summer, hire him and keep everything the same.
 

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Look at the amount of chances our opponents create - with a fairly mediocre midfield. Look at the number of saves DDG has to make - and tell me that our defense hasn't improved a lot.
I never disputed for a second that our defense has improved, but that's not just down to Maguire. He's helped, because he's an upgrade, as I already said, but it's not just because of him. There are plenty of factors involved.
 

Adnan

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I think that Lindelof is gone back since Maguire came here. They are not good together and we may need another CB if Tuanzebe don't fit in. Smalling and Maguire would be better partnership. Keep Ole for another 2 windows.
Defense isn't a priority at the moment due to midfield and attack needing major surgery. But if we were to sign a CB, then someone like a Ibrahima Konate would be the ideal partner for Maguire. Konate is an absolute colossal CB in the making IMO.
 

Roboc7

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Excellent point. Yes it's actually pretty weird talking about long term planning with Ole when in fact the club wasn't even planning to get him and hired him only as a caretaker, just to make it permanent after a honeymoon period. Not like this appointment was planned by the board or anything. They just found him winning and doing well so they decided ok, scrap all the talking about Dof and new manager in summer, hire him and keep everything the same.
A DOF and thorough recruitment process was what we were told would happen. Neither happened and it’s back to same plan of hoping a new manager solves everything.

I agree with the idea of a longer term approach but it should be with a DOF and best possible manager again we have neither.
 

Bestietom

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Defense isn't a priority at the moment due to midfield and attack needing major surgery. But if we were to sign a CB, then someone like a Ibrahima Konate would be the ideal partner for Maguire. Konate is an absolute colossal CB in the making IMO.
I agree. I also like Milenkovic.
 

imamuppet

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You don’t need to be a genius to see that Ole is useless here and is only in this job because he is a club legend. When he is sacked he will disappear like Moyes because no decent team will touch him.
See you have a crystal ball, please share it!

I guess we should close down the forum in that case. Ole played professionally at a high player so knows more than everyone else..:rolleyes:
Actually, you peeps should start your own forum as you obviously know more than people who work in the football industry .....

Lazy attempt at being WUM.
No WUMMing here mate, completely serious, as if any of you posting here really have a clue exactly whats going on at our club ....

Username checks out
Yeah obviously .............
 

BlueHaze

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Konate wouldn't have been cheap that's for sure, but he would've been a better longterm signing in comparison to Maguire IMO. And I believe he would've cost around the £50m to £60m mark. I think that fee would be reasonable for a 20 year old who is already considered amongst the best CBs in Germany and is brilliant at defending space behind him in a high-line due to his amazing pace and athleticism. He's also brilliant at defending deep due to his aerial game which is very impressive already at 20. He's the closest CB i've seen who could potentially reach Van Dijk levels.

Milenkovic was available for £45m according to Di Marzio but we opted against signing him, after enquiring about the player.
I think he'll go to a big club next summer.
 

Roboc7

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See you have a crystal ball, please share it!


Actually, you peeps should start your own forum as you obviously know more than people who work in the football industry .....


No WUMMing here mate, completely serious, as if any of you posting here really have a clue exactly whats going on at our club ....


Yeah obviously .............
Just a completely pointless statement then. I assume you agree with every decision made by every single manager in the Premier League and below. They all know more than you so can’t question any of them which makes it odd you are even on a forum.

Still a lazy WUM is my guess.
 

lysglimt

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When Klopp took over he did not have
Pogba, DDG, Lukaku, Martial, Rashford etc.

Klopp had pedigree and from the first season, you could see an identitiy developing. He wanted to press high, play good football.

.
When Klopp took charge of Liverpool he still had a good first 11 - and a strong squad

Keeper: This was the big problem - they only had Mignoley

Defenders: Gomez, Clyne, Toure, Skrtel, Lovren, Sakho and Moreno - solid but not great

Midfield: Milner, Coutinho, Lallana, Lucas, Can, Joe Allen and Henderson - this would still today be one of the best midfields in the Premier League both in terms of quality and depth.

Attack : Benteke, Sturridge, Ings, Firmino, Origi

And in the next summer he signed Mane, Wijnaldum and Matip + a young TAA from his own youth academy and suddenly Liverpool had a strong side and a squad that was a hell of a lot better than what we have.

So if you consider that Klopp could start his first season with the following:

Mignolet, Milner, Matip, Lovren, Clyne - Henderson, Wijnaldum, Can - Coutinho, Firmino and Mane
With Karius, Gomez, TAA, Klavan, Leiva, Lallana, Sturridge, Origi and Ings

That is both a good team and strong squad

How can you compare that to what OGS had when he took over ? Don't get me wrong - I think Klopp has done a brilliant job - but what he took over was a hell of a lot better than what OGS had.
 

lysglimt

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I never disputed for a second that our defense has improved, but that's not just down to Maguire. He's helped, because he's an upgrade, as I already said, but it's not just because of him. There are plenty of factors involved.
Agree with that - but imo he has brough more composure to the defense rather than actually improved the defending part. Or to put it in Another way - when he wins the ball he gives it to United-players whereas Jones and Smalling usually cleared the ball far and wide.
 

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When Klopp took charge of Liverpool he still had a good first 11 - and a strong squad

Keeper: This was the big problem - they only had Mignoley

Defenders: Gomez, Clyne, Toure, Skrtel, Lovren, Sakho and Moreno - solid but not great

Midfield: Milner, Coutinho, Lallana, Lucas, Can, Joe Allen and Henderson - this would still today be one of the best midfields in the Premier League both in terms of quality and depth.

Attack : Benteke, Sturridge, Ings, Firmino, Origi

And in the next summer he signed Mane, Wijnaldum and Matip + a young TAA from his own youth academy and suddenly Liverpool had a strong side and a squad that was a hell of a lot better than what we have.

So if you consider that Klopp could start his first season with the following:

Mignolet, Milner, Matip, Lovren, Clyne - Henderson, Wijnaldum, Can - Coutinho, Firmino and Mane
With Karius, Gomez, TAA, Klavan, Leiva, Lallana, Sturridge, Origi and Ings

That is both a good team and strong squad

How can you compare that to what OGS had when he took over ? Don't get me wrong - I think Klopp has done a brilliant job - but what he took over was a hell of a lot better than what OGS had.
This. I would also remind people that in Klopps two first seasons we had "Klopp sack watch" threads here and we were all having a grand old time laughing at him and talking about how useless he apparently was. Either way all these comparisons to Klopp and Pep are completely moot points. Different teams, different circumstances, they are also probably the best managers in world football today. If we are going to use them as a yardstick then pretty much everyone will come up short. Especially in Pep's case as hes only been manager in clubs with cheat codes allowed and has never done anything resembling the current United job.

Jose only managed 6th in his first season here, and that squad had Zlatan, Miki, Herrera in it + Mata and Matic had still some legs left, LvG came in 5th and Moyes 7th with a squad that had won the PL the year before. If we end up 6th this season, that would be about par for the course considering our squad. What other managers have done at other clubs is really not relevant, and even what other managers have done at the same club is not necessarily a good comparison since squads change and so does the relative strength of league rivals

Zidane won the CL three times in a row, something no one else has managed, so i guess that makes him the greatest manager of all time?
 

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When Klopp took charge of Liverpool he still had a good first 11 - and a strong squad

Keeper: This was the big problem - they only had Mignoley

Defenders: Gomez, Clyne, Toure, Skrtel, Lovren, Sakho and Moreno - solid but not great

Midfield: Milner, Coutinho, Lallana, Lucas, Can, Joe Allen and Henderson - this would still today be one of the best midfields in the Premier League both in terms of quality and depth.

Attack : Benteke, Sturridge, Ings, Firmino, Origi

And in the next summer he signed Mane, Wijnaldum and Matip + a young TAA from his own youth academy and suddenly Liverpool had a strong side and a squad that was a hell of a lot better than what we have.

So if you consider that Klopp could start his first season with the following:

Mignolet, Milner, Matip, Lovren, Clyne - Henderson, Wijnaldum, Can - Coutinho, Firmino and Mane
With Karius, Gomez, TAA, Klavan, Leiva, Lallana, Sturridge, Origi and Ings

That is both a good team and strong squad

How can you compare that to what OGS had when he took over ? Don't get me wrong - I think Klopp has done a brilliant job - but what he took over was a hell of a lot better than what OGS had.
Did you actually watch Liverpool under Rodgers? They hit the heights 2013 /14 season when they finished second but that was only because of the SSS strike force. Once Suarez and Sterling left Liverpool were terrible and I mean terrible.

I remember we played them about a month before Klopp came and we destroyed them 3-1, it was actually laughable how bad they were and I'm not saying that to fit any agenda because we weren't playing the greatest football either. Klopp came in and within a month they destroyed both chelski and City at the emptyhead and has kept improving them ever since with a game plan that was obvious from the very start.

I don't agree at all on the squads comparison. I think you're mixing up todays Liverpool players with what Klopp started with. The only stand out player in that Liverpool team was Coutinho. The rest were little better than average, including Milner, Henderson, Firminho and Sturidge when he was left leading the line on his own. As for the defence. The only one I would of changed between theirs and ours at the start of each managers tenure would be Clyne. We had better CBs and a lot better LB.

The reason these players have now become very good players is pretty simple really. They are well coached under a manager who is very good in what he does. Can I see players like Martial, Rashford, James, McT go on to lift the CL? No, I can't. Not because they don't have the potential but because our level of coaching will never be good enough to lift them to the heights needed.
 

lysglimt

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Jun 1, 2008
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9,269
Did you actually watch Liverpool under Rodgers? They hit the heights 2013 /14 season when they finished second but that was only because of the SSS strike force. Once Suarez and Sterling left Liverpool were terrible and I mean terrible.

I remember we played them about a month before Klopp came and we destroyed them 3-1, it was actually laughable how bad they were and I'm not saying that to fit any agenda because we weren't playing the greatest football either. Klopp came in and within a month they destroyed both chelski and City at the emptyhead and has kept improving them ever since with a game plan that was obvious from the very start.

I don't agree at all on the squads comparison. I think you're mixing up todays Liverpool players with what Klopp started with. The only stand out player in that Liverpool team was Coutinho. The rest were little better than average, including Milner, Henderson, Firminho and Sturidge when he was left leading the line on his own. As for the defence. The only one I would of changed between theirs and ours at the start of each managers tenure would be Clyne. We had better CBs and a lot better LB.

The reason these players have now become very good players is pretty simple really. They are well coached under a manager who is very good in what he does. Can I see players like Martial, Rashford, James, McT go on to lift the CL? No, I can't. Not because they don't have the potential but because our level of coaching will never be good enough to lift them to the heights needed.
When Herrera left United (which OGS had nothing to do with) - we in reality had 9 experienced players who werent past it (Pogba, DDG, Rojo, Smalling, Jones, Lindelöf, Lingard, Maguire, Fred and Bailly) - of those 9 Bailly has been injured all season, Jones according to every fan on Redcafe is not good enough, Fred the same, and Rojo practically the same. By past it I am talking Matic, Mata, Sanchez and Young

So that leaves OGS with 6 experienced players including Smalling who is on-loan with Roma and Lingard who is considered not good enough by most people

Klopp took over a team with 17 experienced players - we can discuss quality all night, that will always be a matter of opinion. But we currently have a team completely lacking experienced players because monsieurs LvG, Moyes and Mourinho signed all the wrong players. We should have had 5-6 quality players in the late 20s and 5-6 quality players in the mid 20s - we have nothing. What do you think is easier - to implement your tactical ideas to experienced players or to 19-21 year olds with less than 30 matches in the Premier League ?
 

matt10000

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Dec 6, 2018
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It’s outrageous that the results keep fluctuating so much. Are people that fickle and daft that they can’t just stick to one option? Do people think a win against mediocre opposition should change sack to keep? Do people think one loss against weak opposition should change keep to sack?!

It actually begs belief.
It beggars belief that fans come on here and state that the squad is crap and not up to standard and in the same breath state that they expect the same squad to consistently beat every team in attacking, dream, fantasy football every game.

Get a grip on reality. The squad, culture, attitude needs major change and THIS IS NOt goog to happen over night. Another sacking and appointment of a big name manager who wants to win a title within two years isn’t going to work. right now we need someone who is willing to build
a squad for the future and you cant be a spoilt brat and throw hour toys out of the pram every team we don’t win by a large margin with dream football. Some fans need to Grow up life just isnt like that.
 
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Sky1981

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It beggars belief that fans come on here and state that the squad is crap and not up to standard and in the same breath state that they expect the same squad to consistently beat every team in attacking, dream, fantasy football every game.

Get a grip on reality. The squad, culture, attitude needs major change and THIS IS NOt goog to happen over night. Another sacking and appointment of a big name manager who wants to win a title within two years isn’t going to work. right now we need someone who is willing to build
a squad for the future and you cant be a spoilt brat and throw hour toys out of the pram every team we don’t win by a large margin with dream football. Some fans need to Grow up life just isnt like that.
So in 3 years time we will win the league? And dominate for 10 years with ole at the wheel?