Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll added)

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by MrSingh2002, Sep 30, 2019.

?

Sack or Keep OLE?

  1. Sack

  2. Keep

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Nov 8, 2019 at 13:43

    jackal&hyde Full Member

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    Give me a break. Flopp and naive was how he was decribed by the vast majority. Finished 8th. Few would have been sad to see him go at the time (from pool). I also hate it when some judge things in hindsight.

    The point with both Klopp and SAF is that when you want to make massive changes to how a team plays and trains you are going to have a "down" period, especially when the squad is not exactly WC. Fans, me included, can't usually see this far, it's all game to game. Ole might fail, but to judge in november in his first year means that we learned nothing from the past. And so, my comment that as fans we are emotional and reactive rather then seeing the big picture. Is that offensive in some way?:lol:
  2. Nov 8, 2019 at 13:43

    BlueHaze Full Member

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    You are right that it would be better spent in other areas but we really needed a CB. Harry has been decent so far. Smalling should not have been sent on loan though.
  3. Nov 8, 2019 at 13:49

    Adnan Full Member

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    Ibrahima Konate currently at RB Leipzig would've been a much better fit in comparison to Maguire IMO. Nikola Milenkovic at Fiorentina would've been a better longterm addition too IMO and would've cost nowhere near the £80m we paid for the former Leicester player.

    A fullback in the modern game must be able to link with the attack and have the natural instinct to exploit space on the flanks. AWB in that regard is comfortably inferior to his English compatriots Trent Arnold and Aarons IMO who are both younger than him. Spending £50m plus on a fullback who has attacking limitations wasn't a great idea or a good signing no matter how anyone wants to sugar coat it.

    I don't think Maguire has as yet proved that he's a massive improvement over Chris Smalling. To state otherwise is a huge over exaggeration on your part. AWB being a upgrade on young and Valencia who are/were, past their best and have been for a number of seasons now, doesn't make him a good signing either.

    There's literally players in droves playing for midtable clubs around Europe who could've been comfortable upgrades to our fullback options and CBs for the fraction of the £130m we spent on AWB and Maguire.
  4. Nov 8, 2019 at 13:52

    ash_86 Full Member

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    Of course Maguire would get into livepools defense. Livepool defense has been hardly gold standard this season. Us and livepool have the same number of clean sheets this season says a lot about their defense standards.

    We conceded 55+ goals last season with smalling at the back and half season of Jose two banks of four and still conceded lot of goals even against poor opposition.
  5. Nov 8, 2019 at 13:54

    Rhyme Animal Modmins said "freeze" and I got numb

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    Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
    Didn't Klopp reach a European final in his first half season with Liverpool? Liverpool's first European final since 2007...

    And then again in his first full season?

    And also finished 4th in his first full season?

    So yeah, that'd mean Ole's already a final placing behind him, and this season will need to finish 4th and guide Utd to a EL final before he's matched Klopp's 'low point' at Liverpool...
  6. Nov 8, 2019 at 13:54

    jackal&hyde Full Member

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    It's possible and maybe even likely. Right now however, doesn't he have more points then Klopp had in the same number of games?
  7. Nov 8, 2019 at 13:56

    BlueHaze Full Member

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    If Man Utd came calling for Konate or Milenkovic we'd be taken to the cleaners. They would probably demand at least £60m just because its us. But yeah those are 2 very talented young centre backs. I'd much rather have either of them next to Harry rather than Lindelöf. Preferably Milenkovic because of his top notch aerial game.
  8. Nov 8, 2019 at 13:58

    Massive Spanner Thinks Geoff Shreeves has one

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    We were shite at the back last season but a lot of that was due to DDG (much better this season) and a lack of any real options (helped this season by AWB and Shaw earlier on), we are also an incredibly defensive team for the most part this season.

    Anyway, you can only judge players on what you see and I really haven't seen anything from Maguire here nor during his time at Leicester to suggest he's anywhere close to the level of defender you'd want him to be for such more or anything more than a modest/good upgrade on our defense. I certainly don't think he's a "massive" upgrade on Smalling, but then I've always felt Smalling was underrated by Utd fans. This isn't new either, I said the exact same thing when we were linked with him.

    Ultimately I just think it was a poor way to splash the majority of our budget given other areas are far more of an issue than CB.
  9. Nov 8, 2019 at 13:58

    jackal&hyde Full Member

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    I hope you understand that my point is not to say that Ole is as good as anyone else but that even WC managers, including SAF and Klopp need a couple of seasons of pain untill things fall in to place when the job is rebuilding of both the playing squad as well as the phylosophy and fitness.
  10. Nov 8, 2019 at 14:00

    Massive Spanner Thinks Geoff Shreeves has one

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    I can't believe people are trying to compare Ole to Klopp to defend him. A new low.
  11. Nov 8, 2019 at 14:00

    Massive Spanner Thinks Geoff Shreeves has one

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    And his point was that Klopp was doing far, far better with Liverpool in the same time period as Ole has been with us so your point is stupid.
  12. Nov 8, 2019 at 14:03

    jackal&hyde Full Member

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    He had less points in the same number of games so how was he doing much better? Did he have the best defense in chances created against? Nope, we do.
  13. Nov 8, 2019 at 14:08

    Massive Spanner Thinks Geoff Shreeves has one

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    That's bollocks though because Klopp took over in October and Ole took over in December. Ole's stats are also massively skewed by his results when he was still in the caretaker role.

    In Liverpool's first 11 games in his first full season he had 26 points. Ole has 13.
  14. Nov 8, 2019 at 14:11

    Roboc7 Full Member

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    I doubt it, haven’t seen that stat for while so I assume Ole is now behind.

    11 games into his first full season in charge (same point Ole is at now), Liverpool had 26 points. That’s a fair comparison and unsurprisingly given he is a much better manager it shows Klopp was doing a better job.

    Liverpool went on to finish 4th, it wasn’t perfect but there was clear progress in how they were playing and in terms of performance.
  15. Nov 8, 2019 at 14:12

    jackal&hyde Full Member

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    Skewed how? He was the manager. Game for game Ole has more points. It sounda strage given what Klopp has achieved, 3 years later, but it is what it is. Rebuilding is a massive job, that is my point, even for a WC manager.
  16. Nov 8, 2019 at 14:15

    jackal&hyde Full Member

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    Want to hear another stat? This season we won or draw against the "top six" and we were 5 min to end pools unbeatable run (still ended their winning run). That speaks of tactical understanding. We give him some credit for this?:)
  17. Nov 8, 2019 at 14:17

    Adnan Full Member

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    Konate wouldn't have been cheap that's for sure, but he would've been a better longterm signing in comparison to Maguire IMO. And I believe he would've cost around the £50m to £60m mark. I think that fee would be reasonable for a 20 year old who is already considered amongst the best CBs in Germany and is brilliant at defending space behind him in a high-line due to his amazing pace and athleticism. He's also brilliant at defending deep due to his aerial game which is very impressive already at 20. He's the closest CB i've seen who could potentially reach Van Dijk levels.

    Milenkovic was available for £45m according to Di Marzio but we opted against signing him, after enquiring about the player.
  18. Nov 8, 2019 at 14:18

    Rhyme Animal Modmins said "freeze" and I got numb

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    Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
    Yeah, but my point is that the far more recent and relevant of those examples - Klopp - didn't really have 'a couple of seasons of pain'...

    He reached a European final in his first half season, and then finished 4th and reached another European final in his first full season!

    This narrative is dangerous and has to stop.

    Solskjaer is a League 1 level manager - after failing in the Championship and being sacked by Cardiff, no other Championship side ever came in for him - IN YEARS.

    The situation of having someone like that take over an Elite, wealthy club like Utd is unprecedented.

    It's a surreal situation that has left the fanbase confused and dizzied by the incredibly left-field nature of the appointment.

    But the reality, beneath the confusion, is simple enough - it's a stupid, badly thought out appointment by a board that is inept to historic levels.

    And even mentioning this manager in the same sentence as Fergie, or even Klopp, is something that needs to stop, with immediate effect.
  19. Nov 8, 2019 at 14:20

    romufc Full Member

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    When Klopp took over he did not have
    Pogba, DDG, Lukaku, Martial, Rashford etc.

    Klopp had pedigree and from the first season, you could see an identitiy developing. He wanted to press high, play good football.

    What is Ole's identity?

    Yes, the same tactics that had Jose criticised. Defend Defend Defend.

    Leicester we played terrible

    Arsenal was probably one of the worst games of football for two so called big teams. a draw to Arsenal at home in their current state is nothing to be raving about

    Chelsea was first game of the season where Lampard didnt know his best team.
  20. Nov 8, 2019 at 14:22

    Massive Spanner Thinks Geoff Shreeves has one

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    You'd have to be blind to think Ole has been doing as good a rebuild in his time here as Klopp did in the same period.
  21. Nov 8, 2019 at 14:23

    lysglimt Full Member

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    Look at the amount of chances our opponents create - with a fairly mediocre midfield. Look at the number of saves DDG has to make - and tell me that our defense hasn't improved a lot.
  22. Nov 8, 2019 at 14:24

    Bestietom Full Member

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    I think that Lindelof is gone back since Maguire came here. They are not good together and we may need another CB if Tuanzebe don't fit in. Smalling and Maguire would be better partnership. Keep Ole for another 2 windows.
  23. Nov 8, 2019 at 14:25

    Roboc7 Full Member

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    Where were the couple of seasons of pain?. Pep finished 4th once and Klopp 4th in first full season. They didn’t have their teams playing anything like as bad as we are. All you are really saying is a much worse manager needs much longer to do a worse job which I agree with.
  24. Nov 8, 2019 at 14:26

    el3mel Full Member

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    Excellent point. Yes it's actually pretty weird talking about long term planning with Ole when in fact the club wasn't even planning to get him and hired him only as a caretaker, just to make it permanent after a honeymoon period. Not like this appointment was planned by the board or anything. They just found him winning and doing well so they decided ok, scrap all the talking about Dof and new manager in summer, hire him and keep everything the same.
  25. Nov 8, 2019 at 14:27

    Massive Spanner Thinks Geoff Shreeves has one

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    I never disputed for a second that our defense has improved, but that's not just down to Maguire. He's helped, because he's an upgrade, as I already said, but it's not just because of him. There are plenty of factors involved.
  26. Nov 8, 2019 at 14:33

    Adnan Full Member

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    Defense isn't a priority at the moment due to midfield and attack needing major surgery. But if we were to sign a CB, then someone like a Ibrahima Konate would be the ideal partner for Maguire. Konate is an absolute colossal CB in the making IMO.
  27. Nov 8, 2019 at 14:33

    Roboc7 Full Member

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    A DOF and thorough recruitment process was what we were told would happen. Neither happened and it’s back to same plan of hoping a new manager solves everything.

    I agree with the idea of a longer term approach but it should be with a DOF and best possible manager again we have neither.
  28. Nov 8, 2019 at 14:41

    Bestietom Full Member

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    I agree. I also like Milenkovic.
  29. Nov 8, 2019 at 15:00

    Judas Open to offers

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    Swear you wanted Ole out a few days ago?
  30. Nov 8, 2019 at 15:41

    imamuppet New Member

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    See you have a crystal ball, please share it!

    Actually, you peeps should start your own forum as you obviously know more than people who work in the football industry .....

    No WUMMing here mate, completely serious, as if any of you posting here really have a clue exactly whats going on at our club ....

    Yeah obviously .............
  31. Nov 8, 2019 at 15:46

    BlueHaze Full Member

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    I think he'll go to a big club next summer.
  32. Nov 8, 2019 at 16:32

    Roboc7 Full Member

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    Just a completely pointless statement then. I assume you agree with every decision made by every single manager in the Premier League and below. They all know more than you so can’t question any of them which makes it odd you are even on a forum.

    Still a lazy WUM is my guess.
  33. Nov 8, 2019 at 16:48

    lysglimt Full Member

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    When Klopp took charge of Liverpool he still had a good first 11 - and a strong squad

    Keeper: This was the big problem - they only had Mignoley

    Defenders: Gomez, Clyne, Toure, Skrtel, Lovren, Sakho and Moreno - solid but not great

    Midfield: Milner, Coutinho, Lallana, Lucas, Can, Joe Allen and Henderson - this would still today be one of the best midfields in the Premier League both in terms of quality and depth.

    Attack : Benteke, Sturridge, Ings, Firmino, Origi

    And in the next summer he signed Mane, Wijnaldum and Matip + a young TAA from his own youth academy and suddenly Liverpool had a strong side and a squad that was a hell of a lot better than what we have.

    So if you consider that Klopp could start his first season with the following:

    Mignolet, Milner, Matip, Lovren, Clyne - Henderson, Wijnaldum, Can - Coutinho, Firmino and Mane
    With Karius, Gomez, TAA, Klavan, Leiva, Lallana, Sturridge, Origi and Ings

    That is both a good team and strong squad

    How can you compare that to what OGS had when he took over ? Don't get me wrong - I think Klopp has done a brilliant job - but what he took over was a hell of a lot better than what OGS had.
  34. Nov 8, 2019 at 17:58

    lysglimt Full Member

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    Agree with that - but imo he has brough more composure to the defense rather than actually improved the defending part. Or to put it in Another way - when he wins the ball he gives it to United-players whereas Jones and Smalling usually cleared the ball far and wide.
  35. Nov 8, 2019 at 18:07

    Bobcat Full Member

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    This. I would also remind people that in Klopps two first seasons we had "Klopp sack watch" threads here and we were all having a grand old time laughing at him and talking about how useless he apparently was. Either way all these comparisons to Klopp and Pep are completely moot points. Different teams, different circumstances, they are also probably the best managers in world football today. If we are going to use them as a yardstick then pretty much everyone will come up short. Especially in Pep's case as hes only been manager in clubs with cheat codes allowed and has never done anything resembling the current United job.

    Jose only managed 6th in his first season here, and that squad had Zlatan, Miki, Herrera in it + Mata and Matic had still some legs left, LvG came in 5th and Moyes 7th with a squad that had won the PL the year before. If we end up 6th this season, that would be about par for the course considering our squad. What other managers have done at other clubs is really not relevant, and even what other managers have done at the same club is not necessarily a good comparison since squads change and so does the relative strength of league rivals

    Zidane won the CL three times in a row, something no one else has managed, so i guess that makes him the greatest manager of all time?
  36. Nov 8, 2019 at 19:52

    dove Full Member

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    I don't, just the common sense.
  37. Nov 8, 2019 at 21:29

    Forevergiggs1 Full Member

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    Did you actually watch Liverpool under Rodgers? They hit the heights 2013 /14 season when they finished second but that was only because of the SSS strike force. Once Suarez and Sterling left Liverpool were terrible and I mean terrible.

    I remember we played them about a month before Klopp came and we destroyed them 3-1, it was actually laughable how bad they were and I'm not saying that to fit any agenda because we weren't playing the greatest football either. Klopp came in and within a month they destroyed both chelski and City at the emptyhead and has kept improving them ever since with a game plan that was obvious from the very start.

    I don't agree at all on the squads comparison. I think you're mixing up todays Liverpool players with what Klopp started with. The only stand out player in that Liverpool team was Coutinho. The rest were little better than average, including Milner, Henderson, Firminho and Sturidge when he was left leading the line on his own. As for the defence. The only one I would of changed between theirs and ours at the start of each managers tenure would be Clyne. We had better CBs and a lot better LB.

    The reason these players have now become very good players is pretty simple really. They are well coached under a manager who is very good in what he does. Can I see players like Martial, Rashford, James, McT go on to lift the CL? No, I can't. Not because they don't have the potential but because our level of coaching will never be good enough to lift them to the heights needed.
  38. Nov 8, 2019 at 22:48

    lysglimt Full Member

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    When Herrera left United (which OGS had nothing to do with) - we in reality had 9 experienced players who werent past it (Pogba, DDG, Rojo, Smalling, Jones, Lindelöf, Lingard, Maguire, Fred and Bailly) - of those 9 Bailly has been injured all season, Jones according to every fan on Redcafe is not good enough, Fred the same, and Rojo practically the same. By past it I am talking Matic, Mata, Sanchez and Young

    So that leaves OGS with 6 experienced players including Smalling who is on-loan with Roma and Lingard who is considered not good enough by most people

    Klopp took over a team with 17 experienced players - we can discuss quality all night, that will always be a matter of opinion. But we currently have a team completely lacking experienced players because monsieurs LvG, Moyes and Mourinho signed all the wrong players. We should have had 5-6 quality players in the late 20s and 5-6 quality players in the mid 20s - we have nothing. What do you think is easier - to implement your tactical ideas to experienced players or to 19-21 year olds with less than 30 matches in the Premier League ?
  39. Nov 8, 2019 at 23:03

    matt10000 New Member

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    It beggars belief that fans come on here and state that the squad is crap and not up to standard and in the same breath state that they expect the same squad to consistently beat every team in attacking, dream, fantasy football every game.

    Get a grip on reality. The squad, culture, attitude needs major change and THIS IS NOt goog to happen over night. Another sacking and appointment of a big name manager who wants to win a title within two years isn’t going to work. right now we need someone who is willing to build
    a squad for the future and you cant be a spoilt brat and throw hour toys out of the pram every team we don’t win by a large margin with dream football. Some fans need to Grow up life just isnt like that.
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019 at 23:16
  40. Nov 9, 2019 at 00:58

    Sky1981 Fending off the urge

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    So in 3 years time we will win the league? And dominate for 10 years with ole at the wheel?