Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll added)

Sack or Keep OLE?

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momo83

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Give me a break. Flopp and naive was how he was decribed by the vast majority. Finished 8th. Few would have been sad to see him go at the time (from pool). I also hate it when some judge things in hindsight.

The point with both Klopp and SAF is that when you want to make massive changes to how a team plays and trains you are going to have a "down" period, especially when the squad is not exactly WC. Fans, me included, can't usually see this far, it's all game to game. Ole might fail, but to judge in november in his first year means that we learned nothing from the past. And so, my comment that as fans we are emotional and reactive rather then seeing the big picture. Is that offensive in some way?:lol:
Give me a break. Flopp and naive was how he was decribed by the vast majority. Finished 8th. Few would have been sad to see him go at the time (from pool). I also hate it when some judge things in hindsight.

The point with both Klopp and SAF is that when you want to make massive changes to how a team plays and trains you are going to have a "down" period, especially when the squad is not exactly WC. Fans, me included, can't usually see this far, it's all game to game. Ole might fail, but to judge in november in his first year means that we learned nothing from the past. And so, my comment that as fans we are emotional and reactive rather then seeing the big picture. Is that offensive in some way?:lol:
Liverpool shouldn’t have sacked Roy Hodgson after only 6 months... clearly if they had given him time like they have given Klopp, then by now they would already have won a league title.
 

hobbers

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Why are people desperate to compare someone who was always clearly a great manager (Klopp), which someone who so clearly is not a great manager. Or even a half-decent manager.

Klopp took Dortmund to the CL finals and won 2 Bundesligas. He earned 2 years to try and get Liverpool going.

What the feck has Ole done in management to earn faith after taking us from 4th to 12th? What half-wits actually believe that in order to improve a top four-competing side into a title-competing side you must do it by taking a detour to the bottom half of the league table for a season or two? Mindless.
 
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el3mel

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When Klopp took charge of Liverpool he still had a good first 11 - and a strong squad

Keeper: This was the big problem - they only had Mignoley

Defenders: Gomez, Clyne, Toure, Skrtel, Lovren, Sakho and Moreno - solid but not great

Midfield: Milner, Coutinho, Lallana, Lucas, Can, Joe Allen and Henderson - this would still today be one of the best midfields in the Premier League both in terms of quality and depth.

Attack : Benteke, Sturridge, Ings, Firmino, Origi

And in the next summer he signed Mane, Wijnaldum and Matip + a young TAA from his own youth academy and suddenly Liverpool had a strong side and a squad that was a hell of a lot better than what we have.

So if you consider that Klopp could start his first season with the following:

Mignolet, Milner, Matip, Lovren, Clyne - Henderson, Wijnaldum, Can - Coutinho, Firmino and Mane
With Karius, Gomez, TAA, Klavan, Leiva, Lallana, Sturridge, Origi and Ings

That is both a good team and strong squad

How can you compare that to what OGS had when he took over ? Don't get me wrong - I think Klopp has done a brilliant job - but what he took over was a hell of a lot better than what OGS had.
This squad is terrible. Many of these players had left by the time Liverpool became successful again. They finished 6th the previous season and started the next one terribly before Rodgers got sacked.

Ole inherited a squad who finished second the previous season and fecked it up in summer.
 

lysglimt

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This squad is terrible. Many of these players had left by the time Liverpool became successful again. They finished 6th the previous season and started the next one terribly before Rodgers got sacked.

Ole inherited a squad who finished second the previous season and fecked it up in summer.
No it's not....a first 11 with 3-4 obvious weaknesses - the squad in itself is not terrible as you say.

Mignolet, Milner, Matip, Lovren, Clyne - Henderson, Wijnaldum, Can - Coutinho, Firmino and Mane

This team which Klopp could field in his first full season is better than what for instance us, Arsenal and Chelsea have today. But far behind City, todays Liverpool and marginally behind Spurs in my opinion
 

el3mel

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No it's not....a first 11 with 3-4 obvious weaknesses - the squad in itself is not terrible as you say.

Mignolet, Milner, Matip, Lovren, Clyne - Henderson, Wijnaldum, Can - Coutinho, Firmino and Mane

This team which Klopp could field in his first full season is better than what for instance us, Arsenal and Chelsea have today. But far behind City, todays Liverpool and marginally behind Spurs in my opinion
Only Firmino, Coutinho and Milner were good players in the squad he initially inherited, maybe Henderson if we are stretching it. I don't think Firmino was even considered a big deal back then. The rest were just a collection of terrible squad whose last league finish was terrible. Stock defeated these lot 6-1 in the final match of the previous season in which they finished sixth.

Again Ole inherited a squad who finished second the previous season, defeating all teams in the league and having an excellent record in big teams, a squad whom people kept saying needed a progressive manager and it will play a great football. A squad people were annoying they couldn't challenge City. Not a squad who finished 6th the previous season.

The only reason the squad has become weaker now is thanks to what Ole and Woodward did to it in summer, mass selling players without replacement. However saying the squad he actually inherited is weaker than what Klopp inherited is just rewriting history.
 

Bobcat

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Did you actually watch Liverpool under Rodgers? They hit the heights 2013 /14 season when they finished second but that was only because of the SSS strike force. Once Suarez and Sterling left Liverpool were terrible and I mean terrible.

I remember we played them about a month before Klopp came and we destroyed them 3-1, it was actually laughable how bad they were and I'm not saying that to fit any agenda because we weren't playing the greatest football either. Klopp came in and within a month they destroyed both chelski and City at the emptyhead and has kept improving them ever since with a game plan that was obvious from the very start.

I don't agree at all on the squads comparison. I think you're mixing up todays Liverpool players with what Klopp started with. The only stand out player in that Liverpool team was Coutinho. The rest were little better than average, including Milner, Henderson, Firminho and Sturidge when he was left leading the line on his own. As for the defence. The only one I would of changed between theirs and ours at the start of each managers tenure would be Clyne. We had better CBs and a lot better LB.

The reason these players have now become very good players is pretty simple really. They are well coached under a manager who is very good in what he does. Can I see players like Martial, Rashford, James, McT go on to lift the CL? No, I can't. Not because they don't have the potential but because our level of coaching will never be good enough to lift them to the heights needed.
But that is exactly the kind of stick "Ole out" people use to beat him with now. "Jose finished 2nd in 17/18, therefore he should do better etc etc...". Of course losing Suarez was big and that Liverpool squad was hardly league winner quality, but it was solid, well balanced and quite young. Rodgers at Leichester has also been used a lot as a stick to beat Ole with as hes doing very well right now at a "small" club, but as you pointed out, his time at Liverpool was a pretty mixed bag

This whole game of Schrodingers Manager is pretty pointless imo. There are literally thousands of examples anyone can use to make a point one way or the other and every manager under the sun has had some good periods and some bad ones. The only way you can fairly assess any manager at any given time is to look at the job they are doing right now.

I think there are two key things that everyone here can agree to, regardless of their stance on Ole
1. The leadership and structure at the club has been lacking direction and purpose since 2013. Hopefully the Rumenicke rumors are true, but so far its been one shitshow after the other
2. The squad was and is a complete mess and needs a major overhaul. Not only do we need quality and more depth in several key positions, but we also needs to ship off players that are clearly not good enough for various reasons. The rebuild should have started in 2013, but i dont think anyone here needs a history lesson, we all know it went to shit

So what has Ole done so far?
1. Result and performance wise its a mixed bag to put it mildly. Some great results, some decent ones, some bad ones and some horrific ones. Ideally, we should beat Newcastle, Palace and Soton, but we failed to do so. At the same time we've beaten Chelsea twice, Leichester and stopped a Liverpool side that was on a 18 game win streak.
2. His transfers in has been the best since Fergie. Some like to discredit them as obvious, ok? But i would much rather have obvious good transfers over bad ones.
3. Hes the first one who has actually been willing to try and clear out some of the deadwood. Yes, some of the ones he got rid of might have helped now, but if they were not part of future plans its better to ship them off sooner rather than later
4. Unlike Moyes, LvG and Jose, its pretty obvious hes planning for the long term, rather than the short term. And yes, that will come at a cost, as we've seen this season.
5. He talked about building a new culture, and i think we can start to see some small signs of that.

No doubt results have been worse than we hoped for, but in my opinion long term planning is the only cure. The clubs continued existence does not rely on European football, and its worth remembering we have only managed top 4 two times the last six years. Going back and forth on what x manger did at y club in z period is pretty pointless imo, as it does not take into account so many important factors
 

matt10000

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It beggars belief that fans come on here and state that the squad is crap and not up to standard and in the same breath state that they expect the same squad to consistently beat every team in attacking, dream, fantasy football every game.

Get a grip on reality. The squad, culture, attitude needs major change and THIS IS NOt goog to happen over night. Another sacking and appointment of a big name manager who wants to win a title within two years isn’t going to work. right now we need someone who is willing to build
a squad for the future and you cant be a spoilt brat and throw hour toys out of the pram every team we don’t win by a large margin with dream football. Some fans need to Grow up life just isnt like that.
So in 3 years time we will win the league? And dominate for 10 years with ole at the wheel?
I doubt we will with anyone at the wheel while Man City have unlimited funds.

We have a crap squad and so some fans are going to be very disappointed if they think we are going to win every game playing attacking, entertaining dream football. In order to do that on a consistent basis you generally need better players than the opposition and we haven’t right now. Like anything in life you have to be patient and build on solid foundations.
 

TheBlamelessOle

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Only Firmino, Coutinho and Milner were good players in the squad he initially inherited, maybe Henderson if we are stretching it. I don't think Firmino was even considered a big deal back then. The rest were just a collection of terrible squad whose last league finish was terrible. Stock defeated these lot 6-1 in the final match of the previous season in which they finished sixth.

Again Ole inherited a squad who finished second the previous season, defeating all teams in the league and having an excellent record in big teams, a squad whom people kept saying needed a progressive manager and it will play a great football. A squad people were annoying they couldn't challenge City. Not a squad who finished 6th the previous season.

The only reason the squad has become weaker now is thanks to what Ole and Woodward did to it in summer, mass selling players without replacement. However saying the squad he actually inherited is weaker than what Klopp inherited is just rewriting history.
They tend to do that a lot, and lie about other coaches like Allegri. There are quite a few catchphrases to identify them with (and my comebacks)

1. Sir Alex.....(colour TV was a new thing back then and we had better owners, he also achieved at Aberdeen)
2. Klopp was awful (reached 2 finals in what wasnt his first full season).
3. Go and support X (no, you like mediocrity, go and support Sunderland)
4. "If you can't support during bad times....." (i do support, am just enlightened enough to not wish repeating past mistakes).
5. "He loves the club."(so much that he collects £7m per year and assisting Ed while slagging the fans. Oh, and he lies on the Glazer family's behalf).
6. "He plays the United way" (losing more than you win and barely having shots on target ain't it).
7. His signings (his departures and players who got new contracts being worse than those who leave).
8. He gets the club (a club that demands to be #1 and is ability the fans? Why settle for mediocrity and side with the leeches against the fans(
 

Fosu-Mens

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Solskjaer is done when is the question not if.
I think they will fire him when they are sure that most of the fans will not turn on them for sacking him. Basically the one thing they fear is that the fans unify against them.

Every time there is some noise towards Woodward+owners there comes a "changes will be made, x amount will be spent on new players" etc.
 

Son

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Solskjaer is done when is the question not if.
This.
Our club does things the hard way. Apparently that also applies to keeping managers and coaches that have no right to be sat in the dugout.
 

Sky1981

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I doubt we will with anyone at the wheel while Man City have unlimited funds.

We have a crap squad and so some fans are going to be very disappointed if they think we are going to win every game playing attacking, entertaining dream football. In order to do that on a consistent basis you generally need better players than the opposition and we haven’t right now. Like anything in life you have to be patient and build on solid foundations.
But that's not the narrative when we finished 2nd under Jose, the narratives back then was finishing miles behind City was a disgrace, and how we all need the young attacking manager. Funny how standards and goalpost changes when it's one of our own.

Right now finishing 6th was deemed as a success, while anything above Relegation is a job well done.
 

Kappa123

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Imagine trying to compare a nothing manager to Klopp who is a Champions League calibre manager, won the competition and reached 2 finals in total. We've seen posters bending over backwards to compare Ole with Klopp, Fergie, Zidane, even Pep... I get it, you are Ole fans but this delusion makes it seem like you don't even watch football...
 

Florida Man

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I think they will fire him when they are sure that most of the fans will not turn on them for sacking him. Basically the one thing they fear is that the fans unify against them.

Every time there is some noise towards Woodward+owners there comes a "changes will be made, x amount will be spent on new players" etc.
In no universe is that happening. Club like United have way too many muppets as fans from around the world who will continue to give money to the club. Even if all the English people boycotted games, you’ll have loads of Chinese, Indian, Indonesian, and Americans ready to pay top dollar to see games.
 

Chairman Steve

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We're behind Marco Silva and Everton too, who Everton fans are running out of patience with at a rapid rate.

Yet here we are currently at 14th and there are people with straight faces, dead serious saying OGS needs another season to get it right.
 

el3mel

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I think it's fair to refrain from commenting on our league position till we see how we'll do in our match tomorrow, though I doubt it'll change much re my opinion on Ole, but it'll add a better perspective to the context.
 

Roboc7

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I doubt we will with anyone at the wheel while Man City have unlimited funds.

We have a crap squad and so some fans are going to be very disappointed if they think we are going to win every game playing attacking, entertaining dream football. In order to do that on a consistent basis you generally need better players than the opposition and we haven’t right now. Like anything in life you have to be patient and build on solid foundations.
Same argument could be applied to the manager as the players. We have a crap manager who is worse than his opponent in virtually every Premier League game. Imagine having a better manager would also help.

I agree we do need someone who can build but there’s no reason why that has to be Ole. There are people in between the extremes of Ole and Jose.
 

dove

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Imagine trying to compare a nothing manager to Klopp who is a Champions League calibre manager, won the competition and reached 2 finals in total. We've seen posters bending over backwards to compare Ole with Klopp, Fergie, Zidane, even Pep... I get it, you are Ole fans but this delusion makes it seem like you don't even watch football...
Ole is worse than a nothing manager.
 

Foxbatt

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Yes.

Look at the list of teams above us.

It’s an absolute embarrassment.
Looks like some fans are alright with it. For the life of me I can't accept it that we are so way down the table. I guess there are fans of the manager rather than fans of the club.
 

Chairman Steve

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I've said this before... If OGS was this good manager on the cusp of greatness like some people are hinting at, then how come we haven't seen any interest from the Dutch or Portuguese leagues in him over the years? (let alone the major European leagues?).

How come no-ones touched him since Cardiff? Heck some esteemed ex-players can get into some pretty decent roles, probably weighted on their playing career alone. How is it that someone like that can get into one of the European giants who are a multi-billion valued company in a business sense? It's like a very competent and loyal McDonalds fryer being hired to be the McDonalds CEO. He could make an amazing Big Mac but it doesn't mean he should be in charge of the strategy to ensure Big Macs are continually sold to the sales volumes needed when he was making them.
 

bonothom

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If United don't beat Brighton tomorrow then he should be sacked immediately. 14th place is pathetic. Can you imagine the stick Mourinho or Van Gaal would be getting.
 

Feed Me

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Looks like some fans are alright with it. For the life of me I can't accept it that we are so way down the table. I guess there are fans of the manager rather than fans of the club.
I’ve said it a number of times. The people who accept and defend this mediocrity are damaging the club.
 

bonothom

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I’ve said it a number of times. The people who accept and defend this mediocrity are damaging the club.
Spot on. If this continues I would urge fans to stop going to matches and stop buying shirts. Anything to stop the money flowing into the Glazers pockets.
 

Fosu-Mens

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In no universe is that happening. Club like United have way too many muppets as fans from around the world who will continue to give money to the club. Even if all the English people boycotted games, you’ll have loads of Chinese, Indian, Indonesian, and Americans ready to pay top dollar to see games.
If the away contingent turns.
The rest of the muppets does not make any noise regardless either way...
 

matt10000

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But that's not the narrative when we finished 2nd under Jose, the narratives back then was finishing miles behind City was a disgrace, and how we all need the young attacking manager. Funny how standards and goalpost changes when it's one of our own.

Right now finishing 6th was deemed as a success, while anything above Relegation is a job well done.
Well in my opinion Mourinho is the only manager in the world who could have got this squad to second place and woody should have backed him in the transfer market. Having said that he would have built for the short term so this clear out and rebuild was inevitable at some point anyway.
 

Foxbatt

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Compare Rogers to Ole. He may not win anything but for sure Leicester plays brilliant football compared to us.
Ole is a disaster for us. Yes we will win tomorrow and then some people would say Ole is the one and we would lose the next PL game.
I wish he would simply go now and spare us this agony.
 

ravi2

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Spot on. If this continues I would urge fans to stop going to matches and stop buying shirts. Anything to stop the money flowing into the Glazers pockets.
I stopped buying united merchandise because of this same reason. The glazers can buy their yachts with someone else's money
 

Sky1981

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Well in my opinion Mourinho is the only manager in the world who could have got this squad to second place and woody should have backed him in the transfer market. Having said that he would have built for the short term so this clear out and rebuild was inevitable at some point anyway.
Short term success us better than long term mess.

We sack jose when he stops being successful. 3 years this 3 years that. Ole would be a huge success if he can win what jose wins in 10 years.
 

Banana Republic

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If United don't beat Brighton tomorrow then he should be sacked immediately. 14th place is pathetic..........
If we lose to Brighton tomorrow, we’re guaranteed to be in 15th position by the end of the day.
If we draw, it’ll be 12th or 13th, depending on the Wolves v Villa result.

Win and it’s 7th, one point right behind hapless Arsenal, but still just 8 points above a relegation spot.

Let’s see what Ole and the boys can do after the modest, but stuttering improvement in recent form.
With currently only 6 points between 5th and 17th place, a good run could see us being on top of the other 13 rubbish teams, wedged between the break away top 4 and the bottom 3.
 

Untd55

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We are in 14th position, behind Bournemouth, Brighton, Burnley, Crystal Palace, Newcastle and Everton. How can anyone defend this?

People will mention that we have a game in hand, but we are not able to escape the mid-table teams because we are performing like one. We will be dragged back into even if we did win tomorrow.

This team is better than the position we are in. We have a better attack and defence than all of those sides. Our midfield is only on par with them when Pogba is out, but having two superior areas should be enough to get you above them.

Solskjaer is massively under performing. It is not the best side (in particular, the midfield is average), but it is better than what we have been showing under Solskjaer.

He really needs to go. I agree about giving a manager time, but you cannot just give a manager time for the sake of it; the manager needs to actually show something before he is given time. Solskjaer has not show anything.
 

bonothom

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If we lose to Brighton tomorrow, we’re guaranteed to be in 15th position by the end of the day.
If we draw, it’ll be 12th or 13th, depending on the Wolves v Villa result.

Win and it’s 7th, one point right behind hapless Arsenal, but still just 8 points above a relegation spot.

Let’s see what Ole and the boys can do after the modest, but stuttering improvement in recent form.
With currently only 6 points between 5th and 17th place, a good run could see us being on top of the other 13 rubbish teams, wedged between the break away top 4 and the bottom 3.
True but whichever way you look at it for United to be 13 points behind Leicester at any stage of a season is an utter shambles. This United squad while not being good enough to win a title should be good enough to compete with little Leicester. That is all down to management and coaches. Any other big club would have sacked them 2 months ago.