Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll added)

Sack or Keep OLE?

  • Sack

  • Keep


Results are only viewable after voting.

Withnail

Full Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
Messages
1,074
Location
The Arena of the Unwell
A part from the first 65 minutes of the SU match, I don't think we have been outplayed by any of the low/mid-table clubs we have lost points against this season. While not being able to muster our best 11, we have lacked creativity, aggression in both boxes and been poor at finishing, while also suffering defensive brainfarts and worldies against us to get unflattering results. The blaim has to be shared between more than the manager alone. Against the top 6 clubs we have faces we’ve had great results and decent performances all the way. I’m not saying we’re playing great football, because we’re not, but is not black and white.


Yeah Sheffield were the better team for 65 mins alright but we really should have won both games and were not outplayed by Villa.

Villa had much less possession, much less shots, half the shots on target, a lower pass completion and scored an absolute worldie.
 

Judas

Open to offers
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
12,027
Location
Where the grass is greener.
There are a few documentaries about Ole and his time at Molde floating around youtube. You can catch a glimpse at what he is at training and what his ideas are.

It's basically this:
when you're close to the box or in the box - shoot
get the ball forward quickly and put it in the box

might as well add Paul Ince to the staff, get the true United way going
Bit mad how we fail at those tactics though.
 

Class of 63

Full Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
6,139
Location
According to my IP address Edinburgh!
Didn't you say just a couple of months ago that Man Utd had a decent chance of winning the Premier League this season? Haven't you also posted in full support of Ed Woodward and the Glazers as owners? Are you just winding people up or is there something else going on? How could you have watched all those years of success under Alex Ferguson and learned absolutely nothing from it?
Did I? Remember saying we'll surprise a few this season, then going back a few months later to take the mickey out of myself for being wide of the mark, but we still may!

Not full support for Ed and the Glazers but they are too easy a target, I was as pissed off at the Glazer takeover as the next man but within a week got my head around what their ownership would be like and how financially it would impact the club going forward, and all these years on I don't feel the need to blame them every time we have a few dodgy results like many do.

Yes I watched the SAF years, I also watched us going from European Champions to being relegated inside 5 years never finishing higher than 13th

United owe me nothing, i've had 50+ years of very highs, and very lows, i'm not expecting anything to change, nor would I want it to.
 

Class of 63

Full Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
6,139
Location
According to my IP address Edinburgh!
Do you really think the Ole in people thinks everything is fine and dandy? I would actually like to hear even a single one say everything is fine and dandy. The black and white painting in here really makes me sick. There is so many factors, variables, nuances in the mix here, and stating anything bastant in black or white is just ignorant and populistic. I'm pretty sure there is about as many opinions in the Ole in group about the state of the club as there are people in that group.

Personally I see a lot of areas that needs improvement, and I definitely only want what's best for the club. I want us back to being challengers for the big titles again, and that is not happening without a long term plan, heavy investments in the squad and continuity. I have come to terms with us being in a transition state now, and the results will not be great before the squad is both injury-free and strengthened further in all departments. I agree with the decision to not "panic"-sign midfield and striker replacements in the summer, and see that we are suffering from that now. Hard to foresee that Pogba would be out for three months before the next window and several other key players to be out for longer periods as well though. The team we have mustered most of this season is of midtable quality in my opinion, and our strongest 11 in an injury-free squad is probably top 4 quality, but miles away from challenging for the PL-title. I do believe we will see improvement in the results when we have our key-players available, and I do think we will see further improvement when we get a couple of good signings in the midfield and attack. I also think we need to aim high in the transfermarket to see this improvement, and not go for backup or squad-options, because the options we have now is not good enough to challenge for the silver we want.

In my opinion we haven't seen enough of Ole to make out what he can do with this squad and what he can do with a better squad with more depth. If the board doesn't back him with funds in January I think he's finished, and any manager coming here after him will also fail if they don't get the backing needed to improve the squad with top class players with the right attitude and motives for coming here. I truly believe that with Haaland and a creative CM/CAM(/RW) in January, we would see an instant impact on the results and the way we play.
A newbie with his head screwed on, there's hope for the forum yet!
 

troylocker

Full Member
Joined
May 2, 2019
Messages
213
All these Keep Ole brigade, I would like to ask two questions.
1. You all say that this midfield is the worst in the PL. I don't agree but I will accept it when you say that. So why on Earth did he not strengthen the midfield? You may say he wanted a CB. Ok but surely we didn't have the worst CBs in the PL anyway. Even if we did, he could have got Soyuncu and Tielemans for 64. That means a very good CB and a very good midfielder. So why didn't he?
2. Though our midfield is terrible, they are able to kick the ball. So why can't he get them to take some decent corners with some variation?

I say there is no footballing reason for him to be at United. He doesn't have the capability to coach and manage a top club. I would say his coaches are also letting him down.
1. I’ve definitely not said that our midfield is the worst in the league, it might even be top 4 quality, but without Pogba it is not. Without McTominay as well it is a mid-table midfield at best. Hard to foresee that we would be missing our best midfielder before the next window, even harder to foresee that our second best midfielder would get injured in the same period. We all agree that we need to improve our midfield, both in quality and depth if we wanna go somewhere with this squad, but let’s be honest at least: This is a typical in hindsight complaint, and you were screaming a lot louder about not replacing Lukaku in August.
2. I agree. I’m sick of our corners being too short and low, but today isn’t the best timing to bring this up maybe. Both goals yesterday came from headers from corner variations.....

Regarding your second question in question numbers one: Were Soyuncu and Tielemans safe bets, or is this another one of those in hindsight cases? Soyuncu played 371 minutes of PL football last season. Tielemans looked promising, but even though he was decent both in Monaco and Leicester last season, he sure wasn’t an obvious target for us.
 

Judas

Open to offers
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
12,027
Location
Where the grass is greener.
If he doesn't get backed in January the club is an even bigger joke to be honest. You can't pretend to back a manager yet again and then not when its clear there is a desperate need.
 

lsd

Full Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
3,639
Jose would have played to our strengths though, it would have been horrible to watch no doubt, but I think he'd have got more points. He's just got a bit more about him tactically.

More points than 15 on the bounce ?
 

Judas

Open to offers
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
12,027
Location
Where the grass is greener.
This is in a magical land where Mourinho had a personality transplant and didn't lose the dressing room and get fired, I take it?
Well yes it's all hypothetical isn't it? At his core, he's clearly leagues above Ole as a manager. Even at his worst, he was still getting more points than Ole currently is, unless Ole pulls off a miracle in the next three games.
 

Withnail

Full Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
Messages
1,074
Location
The Arena of the Unwell
Well yes it's all hypothetical isn't it? At his core, he's clearly leagues above Ole as a manager. Even at his worst, he was still getting more points than Ole currently is, unless Ole pulls off a miracle in the next three games.
Weird mental gymnastics to get to this point and I really dont see why you'd want to invent a scenario so divorced from reality.
 

Judas

Open to offers
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
12,027
Location
Where the grass is greener.
Weird mental gymnastics to get to this point and I really dont see why you'd want to invent a scenario so divorced from reality.
Well lucky for me I didn't invent such a scenario and was just following along with a discussion on a internet message board.
 

Chesterlestreet

Man of the crowd
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Messages
14,709
Villa had much less possession, much less shots, half the shots on target, a lower pass completion and scored an absolute worldie.
Easily ignored in the absence of a (good enough) result.

But you're right. Stats weren't horrible.

Ain't about stats, though - not that type of stats, anyway. It's about where we should be seeing...something...in the way we play. Consistently, that is.

I said, around the time just after Ole was announced as permanent manager (and I was against that - I didn't consider it wise, for various reasons, to make it permanent at the time) that what I expected from him was mainly (to see) a consistent style being implemented. With regard to pressing, with regard to patterns, with regard to - well - the whole feckin' unit looking somewhat well drilled.

Haven't seen that, to be honest. We still look somewhat disjointed - or too disjointed, too frequently. There isn't an undeniable improvement on the whole. There are all kinds of mitigating circumstances, and the front trio look devastating at times (but it means feck all until we see it regularly).

As I've - also - said before, mitigating circumstances are nice but they don't mean much the longer into someone's tenure you get without that "undeniable improvement" part.

Still - yeah, you're essentially right with regard to that particular match. They didn't actually "outplay" us in any meaningful sense, and the difference between a point and the full three was a worldie you usually avoid. Again, though - overall picture: what do you see? Genuinely promising stuff - only undermined by a bit of bad luck, injuries, calculated lack of squad quality in some positions (it wil be addressed, though), feck knows what? Or - well, the alternative is obvious.
 

Foxbatt

Full Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
3,765
1. I’ve definitely not said that our midfield is the worst in the league, it might even be top 4 quality, but without Pogba it is not. Without McTominay as well it is a mid-table midfield at best. Hard to foresee that we would be missing our best midfielder before the next window, even harder to foresee that our second best midfielder would get injured in the same period. We all agree that we need to improve our midfield, both in quality and depth if we wanna go somewhere with this squad, but let’s be honest at least: This is a typical in hindsight complaint, and you were screaming a lot louder about not replacing Lukaku in August.
2. I agree. I’m sick of our corners being too short and low, but today isn’t the best timing to bring this up maybe. Both goals yesterday came from headers from corner variations.....

Regarding your second question in question numbers one: Were Soyuncu and Tielemans safe bets, or is this another one of those in hindsight cases? Soyuncu played 371 minutes of PL football last season. Tielemans looked promising, but even though he was decent both in Monaco and Leicester last season, he sure wasn’t an obvious target for us.
Everything in sports and especially football is a calculated gamble. We got world class players in Veron, De Maria, Falcao to name a few. It didn't work because not they were bad players but because they didn't fit into the system.
My point is that Ole should have strengthened the midfield. This is not in hindsight. I have no problems of Lukaku being sold. I have no problems if he didn't buy a striker either this season. I didn't have a problem if he didn't buy a CB if he strengthened the midfield.
Given that there is no guarantee that Soyuncu and Tielemans would play that well under Ole.
He simply is not a top class coach. Someone posted a gif of our strikers not attacking the ball that's crossed in front of the goal. That simply because we have only one player who is naturally capable of that and he is Greenwood and he is one the bench most of the time.
 

Mihai

Full Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2013
Messages
3,058
How many of those games do you think we would have won under Jose ?
Less than Ole, obviously.

However we should consider the timing, as Jose was at the end of his managerial cycle, and the fact that Ole hasn't been able to replicate that form ( not even come close to it).
 

Withnail

Full Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
Messages
1,074
Location
The Arena of the Unwell
Well lucky for me I didn't invent such a scenario and was just following along with a discussion on a internet message board.
Yeah and the original question was to do with the quality of the squad Ole took over, the run the team went on and whether Mourinho would have done better.

It wasnt about this season.
 

Withnail

Full Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
Messages
1,074
Location
The Arena of the Unwell
Easily ignored in the absence of a (good enough) result.

But you're right. Stats weren't horrible.

Ain't about stats, though - not that type of stats, anyway. It's about where we should be seeing...something...in the way we play. Consistently, that is.

I said, around the time just after Ole was announced as permanent manager (and I was against that - I didn't consider it wise, for various reasons, to make it permanent at the time) that what I expected from him was mainly (to see) a consistent style being implemented. With regard to pressing, with regard to patterns, with regard to - well - the whole feckin' unit looking somewhat well drilled.

Haven't seen that, to be honest. We still look somewhat disjointed - or too disjointed, too frequently. There isn't an undeniable improvement on the whole. There are all kinds of mitigating circumstances, and the front trio look devastating at times (but it means feck all until we see it regularly).

As I've - also - said before, mitigating circumstances are nice but they don't mean much the longer into someone's tenure you get without that "undeniable improvement" part.

Still - yeah, you're essentially right with regard to that particular match. They didn't actually "outplay" us in any meaningful sense, and the difference between a point and the full three was a worldie you usually avoid. Again, though - overall picture: what do you see? Genuinely promising stuff - only undermined by a bit of bad luck, injuries, calculated lack of squad quality in some positions (it wil be addressed, though), feck knows what? Or - well, the alternative is obvious.
I wouldnt disagree with anything you're saying. However I do think stats are an excellent indication of how a team is performing and whether things are moving in the right direction.

Obviously the squad is waffer thin and between Ole and the board they have gambled and lost in this regard.

We've seen the club dither on transfers in the past so I lean towards either the money wasnt there or the club ran out of time then to believe Ole chose to go into the season without midfield reinforcements but we just dont know.

I still dont think all is lost this season and that keep thinking the teams luck will turn. Also if you put Pogba and McTominay into this team they are easily good enough for top 4 but still a good few signings away from a title challenge.

Ole may not be the man to take the team to a title challenge but I'm not sure much more could have been done thus far with the players available.

Firing him now without a top quality manager ready and willing to come in would make things worse imo.
 

bonothom

Full Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2014
Messages
429
United on course for a 50 point season. Watford got 50 points last season finishing 11th, and now look at them. United could well be where Watford are this time next season if the current setup is left in charge.
 

troylocker

Full Member
Joined
May 2, 2019
Messages
213
Everything in sports and especially football is a calculated gamble. We got world class players in Veron, De Maria, Falcao to name a few. It didn't work because not they were bad players but because they didn't fit into the system.
My point is that Ole should have strengthened the midfield. This is not in hindsight. I have no problems of Lukaku being sold. I have no problems if he didn't buy a striker either this season. I didn't have a problem if he didn't buy a CB if he strengthened the midfield.
Given that there is no guarantee that Soyuncu and Tielemans would play that well under Ole.
He simply is not a top class coach. Someone posted a gif of our strikers not attacking the ball that's crossed in front of the goal. That simply because we have only one player who is naturally capable of that and he is Greenwood and he is one the bench most of the time.
Are you saying Greenwood should start over Martial? I’m not so sure many managers would...
 

momo83

Full Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2013
Messages
843
There are a few documentaries about Ole and his time at Molde floating around youtube. You can catch a glimpse at what he is at training and what his ideas are.

It's basically this:
when you're close to the box or in the box - shoot
get the ball forward quickly and put it in the box

might as well add Paul Ince to the staff, get the true United way going
Most people were praising that video when he became interim... I remember thinking it was a sign of a limited manager. Also the game vs Spurs when we won 1 nil and de Gea made like 30 saves was when I first pointed out that Ole freezes under pressure and his in-game management is none existent. Because Spurs were dominating for so long and he did nothing it was only bad finishing and consistent work fromDe Gea that prevented them scoring two or three by the time Ole made a change, which was bring on Lukaku let Spurs attack hope they don’t score and try to hit them on the break.
 

Greck

Full Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2016
Messages
3,287
Most people were praising that video when he became interim... I remember thinking it was a sign of a limited manager. Also the game vs Spurs when we won 1 nil and de Gea made like 30 saves was when I first pointed out that Ole freezes under pressure and his in-game management is none existent. Because Spurs were dominating for so long and he did nothing it was only bad finishing and consistent work fromDe Gea that prevented them scoring two or three by the time Ole made a change, which was bring on Lukaku let Spurs attack hope they don’t score and try to hit them on the break.
Yeah I pointed it out several times that he was bollocking them for not playing dinosaur tactics
 

momo83

Full Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2013
Messages
843
Yeah I pointed it out several times that he was bollocking them for not playing dinosaur tactics
Exactly. All it does is teaches people to shot regardless of if they can pass it to someone whose in a better position, or if the shot will obviously get blocked etc
 

Snow

Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
30,689
Location
Reykjavík
I'd like to see this poll done again. I know you can change your vote but it's not something people generally think about doing.
 

Dr Fink

Full Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
504
Location
Purgatory
Lose to Spurs at home and a convicing loss (3-0) to City and he's gone in my opinion. I love the guy but he's not the man to manage United. Sad, sad times.
 

Yakuza_devils

Full Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Messages
556
A part from the first 65 minutes of the SU match, I don't think we have been outplayed by any of the low/mid-table clubs we have lost points against this season. While not being able to muster our best 11, we have lacked creativity, aggression in both boxes and been poor at finishing, while also suffering defensive brainfarts and worldies against us to get unflattering results. The blaim has to be shared between more than the manager alone. Against the top 6 clubs we have faced we’ve had great results and decent performances all the way. I’m not saying we’re playing great football, because we’re not, but is not black and white.
So being outplayed for 65 mins by Sheffield and we were lucky to nit a draw is OK? We should have lost by 2 or 3 - 0 if not for the miraculous 7 mins of the game.

Villa felt gutted with a draw at OT. Enough said.
 

Bocca9978

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Messages
1,408
Lose to Spurs at home and a convicing loss (3-0) to City and he's gone in my opinion. I love the guy but he's not the man to manage United. Sad, sad times.
I’m thinking the same now.
Haven’t changed my vote yet.

Sad if we’re holding out not to get thumped 3-0 in each of the next two.
 

laughtersassassin

Full Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2014
Messages
1,013
I'd like to see this poll done again. I know you can change your vote but it's not something people generally think about doing.
Yeah, think the thread should be close and re vote out if interest. I don't expect we would see the same results.

So many vote would be left over from months ago I reckon.
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
29,116
Location
Egypt
Lose to Spurs at home and a convicing loss (3-0) to City and he's gone in my opinion. I love the guy but he's not the man to manage United. Sad, sad times.
We're due a result that will save Ole's job. Reckon we'll do well against Spurs and earn a hard fought draw. Won't be a surprise if we manage to scrap a 1-0 win while parking the bus. It's pretty much LVG's second season all over again.
 

bonothom

Full Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2014
Messages
429
For the fans thinking none of this is Solskjaers fault and saying this is the poorest set of players in Uniteds Premier league history.

From a post on football 365 -
"GK Tomasz Kuszczak
DEF Evra Carrick Fletcher Park
MID Gibson Scholes Welbeck Anderson Nani
FWD Michael Owen

That team beat Wolfsburg away 3-1. Ole’s job is about more than just buying players. He actually needs to coach."

Pretty much spot on I'd say! The current team and players is at least on the same level if not better in some positions than the above team. Properly coached United would easily have a chance of top 4.
 

mu4c_20le

Full Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
12,792
Pretty much spot on I'd say! The current team and players is at least on the same level if not better in some positions than the above team. Properly coached United would easily have a chance of top 4.
Chelsea - Jorginho, Kovacic, Mount
Spurs - Ndombele, Dier, Sissoko, Eriksen
Leicester - Ndidi, Tielemans, Maddison
United - Fred, Mctominay, Pereira

Top 4 la
 

Mihai

Full Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2013
Messages
3,058
Yeah, think the thread should be close and re vote out if interest. I don't expect we would see the same results.

So many vote would be left over from months ago I reckon.
I think we need a poll to establish if we need a new poll.
 

Leftback99

Full Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
4,930
For the fans thinking none of this is Solskjaers fault and saying this is the poorest set of players in Uniteds Premier league history.

From a post on football 365 -
"GK Tomasz Kuszczak
DEF Evra Carrick Fletcher Park
MID Gibson Scholes Welbeck Anderson Nani
FWD Michael Owen

That team beat Wolfsburg away 3-1. Ole’s job is about more than just buying players. He actually needs to coach."

Pretty much spot on I'd say! The current team and players is at least on the same level if not better in some positions than the above team. Properly coached United would easily have a chance of top 4.
And on the Saturday this team lost 0-1 to Villa at Home.
Kuszczak
Fletcher Vidic Brown Evra
Valencia Carrick Anderson Giggs
Park Rooney

So much delusion about how a bit of 'coaching' will turn Pereira, Fred, Mata and the like into a winning machine.
 

Mainoldo

Full Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Messages
13,995
And on the Saturday this team lost 0-1 to Villa at Home.
Kuszczak
Fletcher Vidic Brown Evra
Valencia Carrick Anderson Giggs
Park Rooney

So much delusion about how a bit of 'coaching' will turn Pereira, Fred, Mata and the like into a winning machine.
Was that team 9th after the loss?
 

Adcuth

Full Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
2,251
If he was shit at Cardiff and people say that job was above him, how come this job isn't?
 

Mainoldo

Full Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Messages
13,995
Of course not. Look at the level of it compared to our current dross.
I see Fletcher at RB and Anderson plus a GK not better than our number 2. Like the points are pretty useless. We beat Arsenal with Fabio and Park in CM.

Ole is just useless.. he could have Leicester's midfield he would have lost.