Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[I Am Zlatan]

I have to say well done to Ole, I’m still going with sack, but good results recently.

I know I will get stick for this, but I can‘t change my mind until I see us win against teams we struggled to win against.

Since Ole started, we always did good against top 6 sides. Before the Spurs match, I expected a tie or a narrow win, however I must admit I thought City were too good for us, and we would lose. I was pleasantly surprised and we won.

Still based on those matches (specially with City), we countered really good, and we nullified their attack (credit to Ole), but not much changed in tactics, our plan from day one is to counter and the problem is not every team would dominated the ball and attack us nonstop. Also I noticed (which I loved) the players played like it’s a World Cup final against city and even Spurs to a certain extent, and I can’t see that being the case in every match.

Also yesterday vs AZ, we were dominated at home until the first goal, which was against the run of play, then the second goal completely deflated them, and they crumbled. But we 4-0 at the end of the day, so that’s all that matters, but just like how many people talk about margins, and how we could’ve beat so many teams but we were unlucky, same can be said about yesterday to a certain extent, had the ref give a foul to AZ and not counted the second goal, it could’ve been a different match.

Everton on Sunday will be big in my opinion, we win (hopefully convincingly) , confidence will grow even more, and keep improving until January to get some players hopefully. However if we lose, it’ll be the same thing again, as in we can’t break down teams who park the bus, we’ll lose our momentum, and the Ole out crowd will be in full force.

I really hope Ole would succeed here, every Manchester United supporter should want that, one of our own, knows the club, the players are behind him unlike the previous three managers.

For me, with better managers available, I would rather get someone that will take us to the next level and salvage this season, specially we’re close to top 4, I hope to be proved wrong, but I don’t think Ole is the man to take us to the next level. I can see us dropping points against Everton and other smaller teams constantly unfortunately.

With all that being said, I give credit to Ole for the recent results, best two of the best managers out there, and won 4-0 in Europe even if it’s only Europa league, that’s our level currently. Hopefully it will continue.

 

[Tony247]

There were glaring issues in last 20 matches about coaching and match management which cannot be forgotten in 2 matches.

 

[90 + 5min]

This is the leading Manchester United forum. Frankly I'm a little ashamed that the majority still vote to sack our manager.

I could understand a 75/25 split, or even a 70/30, because there are still things to prove. I think it reflects badly on this place when people see that more than half of us want him fired right now.

I think it could be a generation thing. Youngsters here without to much experience in real life are often those who lack a bit of patience and lack outside the box thinking. They react and they don't see bigger picture. While the little more older people like myself thinks about everything in little more different way.

Why do people find this hard to understand? Before the Tottenham game, we had won less than 30% of our games since PSG. That is an awful record that lasted over 30 games; it is strange that some people act like this was somehow irrelevant.

Our results were incredibly poor. Were the performances better? No, I can think of three games in that period where we were somewhat entertaining. That is not enough to make people want to keep him.

Honestly, there was not really anything promising from what Solskjaer was showing until quite recently. Even Solskjaer supporters during that period could only point to 'give him time' or 'his signings are good' because they could not actually say the performances or results are good. They could not actually come up with any convincing arguments to keep him but were just hoping that he would turn it around.

The fact of the matter is our results and performances have only taken an upturn very recently. Not everyone has opinions that change from game to game. That poor run has made up the vast majority of his time at the club, so Solskjaer has quite a lot to do to change people's opinions.

Even though the Man City and Tottenham games were great, I will not be convinced we should keep him until we actually go on a consistent run of performances and results.

But that is what most of us who want him to stay is talking about all the time. Give him time. Time is important because you can't change anything like if it were a Football Manager game.

I also think you are unfair here. Why are you always bringin up only after PSG game. What happened to other games? Can we, who think that Solslskjaer should be given time, only talk about last two weeks and forget Everything else. Wouldn't it be kind of ridiculous if we said: Oh, Solskjaer has 100% win record, how can anybody be against him? And forgeting everything else.

Problem with people and your kind of thinking is that you don't see or want to see problems we had when he came, what team we had and what had to be done. It take time to put it right again and we would be stupid if we would go for another manager. First, because we are making steps forward. Second, new manager would also need time and once again we would start rolling the same wheel.

There were glaring issues in last 20 matches about coaching and match management which cannot be forgotten in 2 matches.

Glaring issues without any considiration where we have been and what problems Solskjaer has to deal with? Please tell the World those issues and try to appply little bit what that depends on.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Glaring issues without any considiration where we have been and what problems Solskjaer has to deal with? Please tell the World those issues and try to appply little bit what that depends on.

When Ole first came in there was little expectation on him to get anything out of what was left of the season. The team for the first time in a long time could play with a bit of freedom and it showed on the pitch even if a lot of the games weren't pretty to watch. As soon as there was something to play for (top 4) Ole and the team bottled it. The form fell off a cliff.

When we beat Chelski in the opening game it looked like we had turned a corner even if the scoreline flattered us but from there it went down hill again pretty quickly. Up to the Spuds game other than maybe the first half against Liverpool and against Chelski in the cup we've looked absolutely devoid of any ideas tactical wise. Injuries and not getting more signings can't be used as an excuse. A good manager can get what he has at his disposal playing with some form of shape but Ole didn't convince anyone he had the know how to do this.

We've had 2 games out of God knows how many that Ole actually looks like he knows what he's doing. To say it's embarrassing or clueless that people still aren't sure if Ole is the man to take us forward is ludicrous when for so long the evidence suggests otherwise. It now does seem that we are moving forward in the right direction and it doesn't matter if you're Ole in or out we're all obviously very happy about this but for me there's been too many false dawns to change my vote in this moment in time. Over the Xmas period it should become more apparent exactly where we are. If we have favorable results then I won't have a problem changing my vote but until then I'm still not convinced.

 

[MrEarl]

Much of the criticism of Ole holds him responsible for the lack of quality in the squad he inherited. "He agreed to it" folks say. Where is the evidence and/or logic to justify this conclusion? It is, after all, the lack of quality in the team that has led to the bad results.

The squad he inherited had only one proven PL quality player in midfield, Pogba. The previous year they had Matic & Herrera plus Pogba. Matic's shelf life expired and Herrera was allowed to run out his contract and leave for nothing.Ole's glorious initial debut came to a screeching halt when Herrera got injured and the team had no backup. This year there is still no backup and now no Herrera. No Matic either. Whose fault is that? As JL has said the Man Utd manager should have the title changed to coach because there is no control over transfers. Woodward is the one in control and he has a six year history of ineptitude. Ole comes across as an intelligent knowledgeable football man. Putting out a team that is supposed to battle for fourth place with only one proven central midfielder is ridiculous. I have seen no rationale or fax to justify putting this blame on anybody but Woodward.

Woodward's claims of Man Utd rebuilding through the transfer market are nothing more than smoke and mirrors. The team's net expenditure in the last transfer market was 65 million pounds. But, after subtracting for the net loss of Herrera conservatively estimated at 40 million, the net investment was 25 million. That is not enough to keep pace with their major competitors much less to rebuild and catch up.

Ole's great challenge has been to field a competitive team with only one proven PL central midfielder/#10. The challenge has been made more difficult when their only central midfielder of proven value has been out for 2.5 months.

So how has he done? McTominay has gone from substitute to undroppable. Fred has shown slow but steady improvement to the point that he was MOM in their last game against one of the top teams in the world. It is possible that a Pogba recovery would enable him, for the first time this year ,to fill the #10/AMF position and field a team with three PL quality central MFs.

With two out of three central midfielder's of PL quality Ole has done well and he is the manager responsible for the rebuilding of the central midfield. Before his rebuilding, the results had been poor but today they are up to fifth place while fielding the youngest team in the PL. Lots of room for optimism.

 

[Untd55]

I think it could be a generation thing. Youngsters here without to much experience in real life are often those who lack a bit of patience and lack outside the box thinking. They react and they don't see bigger picture. While the little more older people like myself thinks about everything in little more different way.


But that is what most of us who want him to stay is talking about all the time. Give him time. Time is important because you can't change anything like if it were a Football Manager game.

I also think you are unfair here. Why are you always bringin up only after PSG game. What happened to other games? Can we, who think that Solslskjaer should be given time, only talk about last two weeks and forget Everything else. Wouldn't it be kind of ridiculous if we said: Oh, Solskjaer has 100% win record, how can anybody be against him? And forgeting everything else.

Problem with people and your kind of thinking is that you don't see or want to see problems we had when he came, what team we had and what had to be done. It take time to put it right again and we would be stupid if we would go for another manager. First, because we are making steps forward. Second, new manager would also need time and once again we would start rolling the same wheel.


Glaring issues without any considiration where we have been and what problems Solskjaer has to deal with? Please tell the World those issues and try to appply little bit what that depends on.

I do see that there are problems with the squad, but I do not think they are as bad as Solskjaer supporters make out. For example, after the Sheffield United game, there were some people actually arguing that Sheffield United have a better team than us just to defend Solskjaer. That is ridiculous. Even with the injuries, our team player for player was still a lot better.

The team is not the best and it needs improvement, but it is much better than some Solskjaer supporters are making out. The issue I have with some Solskjaer supporters is the altering over the opinion of the team's strength to defend Solskjaer. At one point the team is great and being held back by Mourinho to have its true potential unleashed by Solskjaer; next, we hit poor form, and suddenly the team is not as good as the likes of Sheffield United and Bournemouth; now, the team is good again and Solskjaer has them playing at their level.

I believe the team is better than the vast majority in the league, and I think Solskjaer has had it underperforming for a significant period of time.

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I do not believe it is unfair to consider the previous good form irrelevant when faced with a far larger period of poor form. The period of poor form went on for about 30 games, which I believe is a significant enough period to make his starting form completely irrelevant.

I would be saying this if it was the other way around, also. The longer the current form goes on for, the more irrelevant the previous form becomes.

In the end, why do people get sacked? They get sacked because of their current performance. Though previous good performance may give them more time, it will inevitably be seen as irrelevant if the poor performance continues.

 

[MrSingh2002]

There were glaring issues in last 20 matches about coaching and match management which cannot be forgotten in 2 matches.

I'm in this camp. A couple of results is nowhere near enough for me to change from sack to keep.

 

[lysglimt]

I'm in this camp. A couple of results is nowhere near enough for me to change from sack to keep.

Well in fairness we have won 8 of the last 12 - one could perhaps argue that it's kinda harsh to want to sack the a manager with a 66% win-rate in the last 12 games

 

[ReddBalls]

I do see that there are problems with the squad, but I do not think they are as bad as Solskjaer supporters make out. For example, after the Sheffield United game, there were some people actually arguing that Sheffield United have a better team than us just to defend Solskjaer. That is ridiculous. Even with the injuries, our team player for player was still a lot better.

The team is not the best and it needs improvement, but it is much better than some Solskjaer supporters are making out. The issue I have with some Solskjaer supporters is the altering over the opinion of the team's strength to defend Solskjaer. At one point the team is great and being held back by Mourinho to have its true potential unleashed by Solskjaer; next, we hit poor form, and suddenly the team is not as good as the likes of Sheffield United and Bournemouth; now, the team is good again and Solskjaer has them playing at their level.

I believe the team is better than the vast majority in the league, and I think Solskjaer has had it underperforming for a significant period of time.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I do not believe it is unfair to consider the previous good form irrelevant when faced with a far larger period of poor form. The period of poor form went on for about 30 games, which I believe is a significant enough period to make his starting form completely irrelevant.

I would be saying this if it was the other way around, also. The longer the current form goes on for, the more irrelevant the previous form becomes.

In the end, why do people get sacked? They get sacked because of their current performance. Though previous good performance may give them more time, it will inevitably be seen as irrelevant if the poor performance continues.

Fair points, although I would argue there is a difference between "team" and "squad". The team United put out against Sheffield United had obvious deficiencies in defence and midfield, and given some of the players lack of game time, or skills in the positions they played, it made Sheffields and Uniteds team on that particular day closer in quality than if both played their first choices all over.

Squad wise, though, United are miles ahead of Sheffield.

 

[tonnas]

I will change my vote when Ole proves us he can do it against lower teams, we now have 4 games that we should win. If we manage to win 3/4 then yes we are on the up and Ole should be given money in January and see how the season ends. BUT if in the next 4 games we go back to square one then he has to go, simple as that.

 

[::sonny::]

I switched from sack to keep, reasons:

- I’ve seen a progress with the squad taking a shape
- Was right for getting rid of people like Lukaku and Sanchez

 

[Stacks]

Of course I can. You cant gatekeepe what people judge the manager on and set arbitrary standards for them to meet for their issues to be substantial in your eyes.

Current form extends beyond three performances. I'm judging Ole on 12 months yet you claim I should judge him only on the positive performances.

I'm not convinced yet that this is not another false dawn and I'm not silly enough to be blinded by past allegiances and PR talk from the club and manager.

My issue is, as you stated, we perform well against the top 6. I need to see sustained periods of dominance and better performances against the other 12 teams in the league. It's much easier to motivate your players when facing rivals, evidenced by Liverpool regularly beating the top teams and then struggling against the rest of the league. We are beginning to mirror their decline to scary degree and 3 performances are not going to erase the shit we've served up since April.

While I acknowledge the improved performances I'm not as knee jerk as many on here seem to be. Same way I didn't just decide Ole needs to go on a whim, I based my decision on a prolonged period of frankly unacceptable results and performances.

If performances continue in a similar vein as they are now until end of January and he successfully brings in good reinforcements I'm happy to admit I was wrong.

Agreed. It doesn't take much to get up for a game against former manager Mourinho and your City rivals. United had good top 6 records under Van Gaal and Jose at times

 

[Roboc7]

You don't have to be a good team to finish 4th or compete for it ? Do you actually believe that ?

Why would anyone not believe it?. Top 4 is a consolation prize for not being good enough to challenge for or win title. We’re only 5 points off the top 4 now despite having our worst start for over 30 years.

 

[EdWeatherall]

People are so fickle...

Date	Sack	Keep	Most Recently Played League Game
16/11	51.3%	48.7%	3-1 W vs Brighton (h)
03/12	53.6%	46.4%	2-2 D vs Villa (h)
14/12	50.2%	49.8%	2-1 W vs City (a)

 

[Tarrou]

time for a new vote i think?

you can't discern too much from these old polls as some people just don't update

 

[Leftback99]

I see two of the forums favourite managers failed to beat Norwich and Bournemouth today.

Lack of coaching and knowledge of how to break down smaller teams.

 

[Sterling Archer]

People are so fickle...

Date	Sack	Keep	Most Recently Played League Game
16/11	51.3%	48.7%	3-1 W vs Brighton (h)
03/12	53.6%	46.4%	2-2 D vs Villa (h)
14/12	50.2%	49.8%	2-1 W vs City (a)

You're joking, right? We won three games in a row for the first time since April or May back last season. And two of those were against City and Spurs.

You'd have to wonder what on Earth was going on if nobody changed their mind after that! Definitely seems a turning point.

 

[The Cat]

I switched from sack to keep, reasons:

- I’ve seen a progress with the squad taking a shape
- Was right for getting rid of people like Lukaku and Sanchez

Did the same thing.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I see two of the forums favourite managers failed to beat Norwich and Bournemouth today.

Lack of coaching and knowledge of how to break down smaller teams.

If you're a real United fan instead of an i-told-you egoist, you'd be salivating of leapfrogging into 5th a point or whatnot off from 4th place tomorrow.

But instead you're gloating about the opinions of fans on other managers. You're doin football support wrong, mate!

 

[Leftback99]

If you're a real United fan instead of an i-told-you egoist, you'd be salivating of leapfrogging into 5th a point or whatnot off from 4th place tomorrow.

But instead you're gloating about the opinions of fans on other managers. You're doin football support wrong, mate!

Not gloating, just something to bear in mind next time you are ranting about not being able to beat Bournemouth and the like. There's no easy games in the PL just as I expect tomorrow will be a tough game to win.

 

[90 + 5min]

If you're a real United fan instead of an i-told-you egoist, you'd be salivating of leapfrogging into 5th a point or whatnot off from 4th place tomorrow.

But instead you're gloating about the opinions of fans on other managers. You're doin football support wrong, mate!

Real fan? Well, not that I wrote that but considering what anti-Ole people have been writing (and even wanting us to lose) I don't think you are right to talk about what real fans should do.
And yes, managers people wanted here to replace Ole, managers that people thought were better than Ole and so on are getting punched by reality.

 

[Zen86]

If you're a real United fan instead of an i-told-you egoist, you'd be salivating of leapfrogging into 5th a point or whatnot off from 4th place tomorrow.

But instead you're gloating about the opinions of fans on other managers. You're doin football support wrong, mate!

No harm in calling out some of the really shit opinions which get thrown around on here regularly.

 

[Tel074]

Why would anyone not believe it?. Top 4 is a consolation prize for not being good enough to challenge for or win title. We’re only 5 points off the top 4 now despite having our worst start for over 30 years.

You still have to be a good team to finish top 4 in the PL . I agree it's a consolation prize but any team that finish's top 4 is a good team

 

[Sterling Archer]

Not gloating, just something to bear in mind next time you are ranting about not being able to beat Bournemouth and the like. There's no easy games in the PL just as I expect tomorrow will be a tough game to win.

No need to explain, mate. Tongue in cheek reply on my part. I just decided to use your harmless post to emphasize how unsavory the top red talk is on here of late.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Did the same thing.

Shouldn’t be so fickle in the first place

 

[Foxbatt]

We have to win tomorrow. It's a must. It's going to be a tough game with Everton having a new manager bounce. We can't let them counter attack us or put in too many crosses.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Changed to keep. Will stay keep even if we lose our next 10 matches. I’m going to stop being a bitch and support the man.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Changed to keep. Will stay keep even if we lose our next 10 matches. I’m going to stop being a bitch and support the man.

Welcome my friend

 

[Random Task]

Does anyone still want Poch?

I want Ole to succeed here as much as the next person, but at the same time, I don't want our club to miss on one of the brightest managerial prospects in the game today.

I love Ole to bits and I'd hate to see him get sacked from the club he worships. It's a difficult situation.

 

[90 + 5min]

Does anyone still want Poch?

I want Ole to succeed here as much as the next person, but at the same time, I don't want our club to miss on one of the brightest managerial prospects in the game today.

I love Ole to bits and I'd hate to see him get sacked from the club he worships. It's a difficult situation.

He is good manager and nice guy but overrated by many and by far. Twice got sacked (of 3 clubs) and never won anything anywhere. I don't think he would make us compete for titles right away and he would also need time, like Ole needs. So why go for someone who might be better but with no guarantee? Why go for someone despite us showing progress? Let Ole have time.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

time for a new vote i think?

you can't discern too much from these old polls as some people just don't update

God no.

My nephew's on here. If there's another Ole Vote, he'll be messaging me going "see?! Fecking Redcafe can have another fecking vote. Why can't the UK fecking have a second fecking Brexit referendum?!!!"

(Let it go Damen... let it go).

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Does anyone still want Poch?

I want Ole to succeed here as much as the next person, but at the same time, I don't want our club to miss on one of the brightest managerial prospects in the game today.

I love Ole to bits and I'd hate to see him get sacked from the club he worships. It's a difficult situation.

Nothing difficult about it, you either support him or change it. What I don’t get is the love in for a manager that’s won less than me and Ole combined

 

[lysglimt]

Does anyone still want Poch?

I want Ole to succeed here as much as the next person, but at the same time, I don't want our club to miss on one of the brightest managerial prospects in the game today.

I love Ole to bits and I'd hate to see him get sacked from the club he worships. It's a difficult situation.

Sacking a manager is something you do when you are absolutely certain that a new manager will perform better - can anyone say with certainty that a new manager will do better than OGS right now ? When every single player wants him to stay, it is likely the results would actually get worse, so sacking him really isn't an option at the moment

 

[lysglimt]

Nothing difficult about it, you either support him or change it. What I don’t get is the love in for a manager that’s won less than me and Ole combined

But he did so well in 2017.....

 

[Tarrou]

God no.

My nephew's on here. If there's another Ole Vote, he'll be messaging me going "see?! Fecking Redcafe can have another fecking vote. Why can't the UK fecking have a second fecking Brexit referendum?!!!"

(Let it go Damen... let it go).

okay boomer

 

[superdonk]

If you're a real United fan instead of an i-told-you egoist, you'd be salivating of leapfrogging into 5th a point or whatnot off from 4th place tomorrow.

But instead you're gloating about the opinions of fans on other managers. You're doin football support wrong, mate!

You have no evidence to suggest he is not a real United fan, and quite frankly you're out of line. Please consider whether you should post as much as you are, or whether you and everyone else would be happier if you lurk for a while.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

But he did so well in 2017.....

If me aunty were me uncle and all that bullshit in it

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

okay boomer

OK Zoomer.

 

[The Cat]

Shouldn’t be so fickle in the first place

That's none of your business - are you impressed with the season overall then?

 

[Class of 63]

C'mon girls and boys, one last push to get the vote to 50/50 before we get beat by Everton tomorrow.