Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?

  • Sack Ole & appoint new coach ASAP

  • Keep Ole & back him to finish rebuild


Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Paul InceUlt

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
85
Ole speaking like Moyes again - but to be honest, I don't think any of us expect a title challenge next season based on what we've seen so far.
Speaking like Moyes in 2013 and speaking like Moyes in 2020 are imo quite different things. Moyes downplayed a team capable of challenging for the title. I belive Ole is being realistic. His ambitions are deffinitly there, but I’m sad to say it will take time....for any manager. Accepting that comes down to being realistic or not.
The «getting somewhere» comment was downright stupid though.
 

90 + 5min

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2019
Messages
5,229
Yes but ole only got the job because of his legend status not for his actual cv. Those managers haven't had the luck ole got to get the job but they have both shown more in their careers than ole. Alot more.
Not just that. Because we would have gone with Giggs. He got also job because he was youth coach in United, had rough time in Cardiff and lately made Molde a force in Norway for years to come. So he is not a newbie at the job.
What had Guardiola shown before Barca? Or Zidane before Real? It is not about CV. It is what you do that matters.

Ole is yet to prove he is good, leave aside perfect, for a big club. We are still experimenting with him...and vice versa.
Experimenting is not what I would say but it is little bit gambling. However he has shown more positives then negatives and we are going forward as a club and team. And I think he is good manager. The question is how good he will be and if he Will lead us to glory.
 

GBBQ

Full Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Messages
4,808
Location
Ireland
Ole speaking like Moyes again - but to be honest, I don't think any of us expect a title challenge next season based on what we've seen so far.
There has to be a better way of answering that question though, saying we're aiming for it but its not realistic just sounds ridiculous.

He could even say we have two transfer windows before we can properly assess whether we have a squad capable of challenging. Put the ball in Ed's court. Instead he's already admitting defeat 8 months before the season even starts, which is depressing even if its the truth.
 

sunama

Baghdad Bob
Joined
Apr 26, 2014
Messages
16,839
Not just that. Because we would have gone with Giggs. He got also job because he was youth coach in United, had rough time in Cardiff and lately made Molde a force in Norway for years to come. So he is not a newbie at the job.
I'm not an expert on Molde, so perhaps someone can clear this up.
But didn't get fired by Molde and the replacement manager did a good job. Then Ole did a 2nd stint and did well?
Also, I saw a video explaining that Molde have the most money of any Norwegian club, so winning the league with them, is like when PSG win the league in France. You have to be an awful manager not to win the league...and Ole did achieve that.
Someone from Norway needs to clear this up.

And regarding Cardiff - well, he did a terrible job for them, got them relegated and then they fired him because he wasn't good enough for the Championship. As he couldn't get another job in the EPL, he decided to manage in Norway.
 

Forevergiggs1

Full Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2019
Messages
3,451
Location
Barcelona
Supports
United
Did he get rid of Messi? Does Ole have a Messi type player? You may agree or not, but the fact that you have a genius like that in your squad goes a long way in winning a match. I'm not saying he did it all by himself(Messi), but that team would have been nothing special without him.
BTW, i'm not comparing Ole to Guardiola, i'm comparing the circumstances.

Hypothetically, if Ole took over the squad SAF left behind, do you believe he would have let us drop to the position we are in right now? I don't think so, i think he would have done pretty well with a team full of experienced internationals and added some decent players to compliment the older ones and definitely introduced the younger ones to the first team. He wouldn't have to go through all this BS of creating a culture again. The job is far greater than some simpletons make it out to be.
He would not have ripped that squad up and we would have had a natural progression into building a new team.
This is the logic (or lack of) that I can't understand. Moyes did pretty well with Everton for 10 years in the PL whereas Ole was 3 years in a nothing league. So what logic says Ole would of done better? Understanding the club is in no way a valid answer.
 
Last edited:

Alabaster Codify7

New Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
6,553
Location
Wales
There has to be a better way of answering that question though, saying we're aiming for it but its not realistic just sounds ridiculous.

He could even say we have two transfer windows before we can properly assess whether we have a squad capable of challenging. Put the ball in Ed's court. Instead he's already admitting defeat 8 months before the season even starts, which is depressing even if its the truth.

He knows his limitations I reckon, and his squad's. Which isn't a good sign for me. The bloke has consistently lowered the bar since being made permanent. It began with "6th will be difficult next season" before the season even finished. Then it was "this season is all about finding a squad for next season" - before bloody Christmas. Now he's preparing the fans for more lukewarm nonsense next season and we aren't even in February yet.

Personally I just don't think he's very intelligent in certain situations. Not the brightest of blokes, a little bit like Moyes. Honest, good intentions but lacking in savvy in terms of dealing with the media's questions.
 

jem

Full Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
9,325
Location
Toronto
I think we all acknowledged that whoever took over from Jose had a huge job on their hands. The squad was short on quality and depth. Players were on crazy contracts which seems to have caused divisions in the dressing room. It looked like the club were chasing the wrong type of players. I really did struggle to see any positives! For what it’s worth, I gave up my ST after Jose’s 2nd season in charge because I despaired at the direction the club was going in, even though we had just finished 2nd. The whole club felt toxic.

Now I see a bunch of young, hungry footballers wearing the Utd shirt. I like all three of the players we signed in the Summer. I like the kind of players we are linked with in the markets (no more constant Ramos, Bale, Ronaldo nonsense).

If someone had asked me what I felt a realistic target for Utd was this season I would have said anything from 6th-3rd was likely and acceptable. So for us to be in 5th, still in the Europa League, still in the FA Cup and (just about) the Carabao Cup and with so many good young players in the squad I feel we’ve plenty to look forward to and are finally heading in the right direction
There's a lot to agree with there. I just feel like the on-field product has been severely lacking at times (I can't accept losing to Newcastle, Watford, and Bournemouth in the first half of the season), and I'm not convinced by Ole's tactics. I agree that we bought 3 good players last summer, but I think we needed more. And while Ole deserves some credit for moving on the likes of Lukaku and Sanchez, I still feel he has been way too indulgent of the likes of Lingard and Young (not so much indulgent in Young's case as I feel Young is very professional, but the panic over the prospect of losing him is worrying.)
 

Smores

Full Member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
25,526
There's a lot to agree with there. I just feel like the on-field product has been severely lacking at times (I can't accept losing to Newcastle, Watford, and Bournemouth in the first half of the season), and I'm not convinced by Ole's tactics. I agree that we bought 3 good players last summer, but I think we needed more. And while Ole deserves some credit for moving on the likes of Lukaku and Sanchez, I still feel he has been way too indulgent of the likes of Lingard and Young (not so much indulgent in Young's case as I feel Young is very professional, but the panic over the prospect of losing him is worrying.)
In other words he's done a good job at the elements our new DOF will be responsible for and a poor job at his actual primary role.

If this is Ole doing a good job then i don't even know what a bad one would be. He's spent considerable amounts on the defence and it's still conceding far too heavily (we're already very close to our average GC) and we're going games without shots on target somehow. Much wider than that we just look like we have no plan on the pitch beyond run a lot and counter.

If there was an option of move him upwards to DoF i think most would select that right now.
 

Jinn

Full Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2008
Messages
2,084
This is the logic (or lack of) that I can't understand. Moyes did pretty well with Everton for 10 years in the PL whereas Ole was 3 years in a nothing league. So what logic says Ole would of done better? Understanding the club is in no way a valid answer.
And he failed! If you can't understand it, doesn't mean it's not logical.
LVG and Mo have decades of experience behind them and ultimately failed to get the club and what its about. Therefore they failures from a UTD perspective.
Why wouldn't understanding the club not be valid?
 
Last edited:

Gator Nate

Full Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Messages
2,154
Location
Orlando, FL
Well, personally I would like to see what he can do after making 2-3 new signing, as the current squad is not good enough for competing with the likes of Liverpool and City. Next season, all the youngster will be one year older and he will by then, also had more time to work with the group.

You could argue that United this season have been bad at breaking down teams that are sitting deep, and I support that view. In contrast, what has been a trademark of Guiardola´s teams (all of them, Barcelona, Bayern M and City), is now the offensive players are set up to make perfectly timed runs into the box, which is almost impossible to defend against. So why is not Ole able to do the same?

I think it´s a bit stupid to suggest that Ole does not understand the principles of Pep´s tactics - the manager he has studied more than anyone (bare Fergie, of course). Ole has spend his whole life studying tactics - taking notes as a players, studying other managers (Guardiola, especially), reading up on all the theory. When people suggest he´s tactically inept, I believe that´s just simply wrong. Probably, he´s one the most knowledgeable managers there is. But remember what Ole said was his biggest mistake at Cardiff: He tried to implement too much at the same time, and the players where not able to coop with all the changes. So, instead Ole has a different approach this time - he´s trying to perfecting one thing at the time.

What we know about Guardiola, is that he´s spending hour after hours after hours on the training ground, working on offensive patterns: when to start the run, where to run, simultaneous movements etc. It´s not something you´ll be able to implement into your time during a weekend.

So were is the progress then? What the hell has he been working on when United still are miles away from City when it comes to breaking down teams (although, we may have gotten a bit better lately)?

1. The counter attack. Yeah, some would say, park the bus and hit teams on the break, that all he can do. But playing on the break does not mean parking the bus. After the City game Rashford was criticised for not helping out in the defence. Well, he´s not supposed to. United´s offensive players are set up to be ready for the break - they are not suppose to help out in defence. The problem earlier this season, however, was to finding the balance between countering and keeping the ball when there were less chances to succeed with passes up the field. In some games, it just looked like aimless long balls up field which only resulted in United losing the ball. We´ve have become better at finding the balance, which has contributed to United having more possession against weaker teams.

2. Playing out from the back. We have become better at this as well. Instead of seeing the ball being played back and forth between the central defenders and the side backs (especially with Shaw in the team...), we have become braver on the ball and better abled to use it more central in the field (also thanks to Fred having stepped up his game). This has also contributed to us having more possession.

So what´s next then?

3. Breaking down teams that are sitting deep. That´s obviously work in progress, but should we not wait and see what can be done?

So, for me, it´s step by step. And when the players are so vocal in their support of the manager, is it not worth the risk of letting Ole having a full season and perhaps getting a few signings that will make his work easier?

(and please forgive this long answer, I really do hate long post myself).
Great post. I have pointed out a few times about those "aimless long balls." Initially, it looked to me like someone was supposed to on the end of it. As the season progressed, someone was close to the end of it. Now, someone is on the end of it and they're getting it under control more and more. Ole's culture change hasn't just been "youth and positivity," it's been a major change in tactical philosophy with players not necessarily ready for it. You still see them revert from time to time, but not nearly as much now.

As for breaking down the teams sitting deep, I think we're starting to do that a bit. We've drawn them out and then countered. We've pressed them into mistakes. We've scored 10 goals in the last three league games while only conceding one. This kind of goes to your second point, too, because against Norwich, you saw us push the ball up, and when it didn't work (with opponents pulling back to a 6-4-0, it's no wonder), we decompress the spring to the halfway line, then start probing again. Sometimes we go all the way back, but it varies. And when the opponent gets the ball in their own half, we're not merely conceding their possession into our half - we usually press them all the way in.
 

Amarsdd

Full Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
3,299
I'm not an expert on Molde, so perhaps someone can clear this up.
But didn't get fired by Molde and the replacement manager did a good job. Then Ole did a 2nd stint and did well?
Also, I saw a video explaining that Molde have the most money of any Norwegian club, so winning the league with them, is like when PSG win the league in France. You have to be an awful manager not to win the league...and Ole did achieve that.
Someone from Norway needs to clear this up.


And regarding Cardiff - well, he did a terrible job for them, got them relegated and then they fired him because he wasn't good enough for the Championship. As he couldn't get another job in the EPL, he decided to manage in Norway.
there seems to be a lot of incorrect info there.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/ole...e-winning-manager.452216/page-3#post-25033201
the above post from a Norwegian fan gives context to Ole's time at Molde, and actually the whole thread is informative in that matter due to the context provided by some Norwegian posters here.
 

hobbers

Full Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
28,238
So you are saying it's realistic for any team apart from Man City to realistically battle Liverpool for the title next year ? In my opinion it's not unless Liverpool have a big dip.
? ... Leicester were 'realistically' battling for the title with them this year until very recently. Despite losing Maguire to us, and the change of manager, and having a squad no one thought would be good enough for a top 2/3 finish last summer.

That's what can happen when you don't have a defeatist "only here to sell our new strategy of being a shitty football side to the fans" sort of manager.
 

glazed

Eats diamonds to beat thermodynamics
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
7,669

Lt. Deckard

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 22, 2016
Messages
26
Location
Austria
Ole is not the right man to coach the team due to purely tactical lack of knowledge and experience. He would be the ideal person for the DoF. There he could bring out his great idea of young british players mixed with experienced players and put together a team for the future.
Therefore, the following must happen at the end of the season. Ole becomes DoF and an experienced coach takes over the team. With experienced assistants, because currently a completely inexperienced coaching team is sitting on the sidelines. Except for Phelan, of course.

Roller coaster ride can continue.
 

90 + 5min

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2019
Messages
5,229
I'm not an expert on Molde, so perhaps someone can clear this up.
But didn't get fired by Molde and the replacement manager did a good job. Then Ole did a 2nd stint and did well?
Also, I saw a video explaining that Molde have the most money of any Norwegian club, so winning the league with them, is like when PSG win the league in France. You have to be an awful manager not to win the league...and Ole did achieve that.
Someone from Norway needs to clear this up.

And regarding Cardiff - well, he did a terrible job for them, got them relegated and then they fired him because he wasn't good enough for the Championship. As he couldn't get another job in the EPL, he decided to manage in Norway.
I’m not norwegian but like to follow even ”small” leagues and got some info from close sources in football world. Ole did tremendous job up there and as I said made Molde a force breaking Rosenborg dominance. Molde having money and being like PSG in that league? Not a chance. I would say that Molde were like Lyon and Rosenborg were PSG when Molde won the league. And also so I don’t forget. He didn’t get fired.

About Cardiff. It did go bad. But I would say that Ole’s vision came at worst time when Cardiff were battling for relegation. He was thinking about future. Sure, he did misstakes. No question about that but I would say that he couldn’t stop them from relegation rather then saying he took them down.
Whatever happened in the past should not be judging what he is doing today. Regardless of being good or bad in the past. Past is past. What is most important is if he is doing good job here.
 

Greck

Full Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2016
Messages
7,099
This clickbait article is literally the essence of all my hopes, short of the Glazers selling up to Jeff Bezos

https://www.football365.com/news/pochettino-makes-one-major-demand-after-man-utd-talks

"Mauricio Pochettino is expected to become Manchester United boss at the end of the season but wants Ed Woodward to be taken off all football and transfer matters if he is to take the job, according to one journalist. "
It's obvious BS. How is he going to demand for the person offering him a job to step down? The report is beyond illogical. The most he can do is ask for hirings to help with the job if he agrees to it
 
Last edited:

Zen86

Full Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
13,924
Location
Sunny Manc
Ole’s record at Molde or Cardiff is irrelevant at this point either way. He’s been here a year, during which myself and many others believe there’s been firm progress. There’s obvious deficiencies, but hopefully with the right signing or two we can make that step up.

If people aren’t happy with the progress we’ve made then fair enough, but at least judge the guy based on what he’s done here instead of trudging up previous management spells, which many have seemingly little knowledge of anyway.
 

Scholsey2004

Full Member
Joined
May 12, 2016
Messages
3,600
I'm totally happy with the job ole is doing. Individual young players are starting to reach their potential and a core group is developing. There's still a lot of dead wood that needs moving on and a few good signings we still need to make but Rome wasn't built in a day.
 

lysglimt

Full Member
Scout
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
15,267
He knows his limitations I reckon, and his squad's. Which isn't a good sign for me. The bloke has consistently lowered the bar since being made permanent. It began with "6th will be difficult next season" before the season even finished. Then it was "this season is all about finding a squad for next season" - before bloody Christmas. Now he's preparing the fans for more lukewarm nonsense next season and we aren't even in February yet.

Personally I just don't think he's very intelligent in certain situations. Not the brightest of blokes, a little bit like Moyes. Honest, good intentions but lacking in savvy in terms of dealing with the media's questions.
He is probably too honest in some situation - but to say he isn't the brightest ? Do you seriously think any footballer who has played at the highest level - is stupid ? I think you have to be pretty darn clever to be able read and interpret the game, follow complex instructions etc at that level. And this is a person Ferguson had in his squad for 10 years and decided to give responsibility of training Uniteds biggest talents. Would he have done that if he thought OGS wasn't well above average in the intelligence-department ?
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

I pity the poor fool who stinks like I do!
Joined
Apr 15, 2015
Messages
10,223
Location
Blitztown

glazed

Eats diamonds to beat thermodynamics
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
7,669
It's obvious BS. How is he going to demand for the person offering him a job to step down? The report is beyond illogical. The most he can do is ask for hirings to help with the job if he agrees to it
Personally I think it's true. But only because I want it to be.
 

lysglimt

Full Member
Scout
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
15,267
? ... Leicester were 'realistically' battling for the title with them this year until very recently. Despite losing Maguire to us, and the change of manager, and having a squad no one thought would be good enough for a top 2/3 finish last summer.

That's what can happen when you don't have a defeatist "only here to sell our new strategy of being a shitty football side to the fans" sort of manager.
Leicester have done brilliantly - but to say they realistically have been battling for the title ? No - they havent. Not even close

With no injuries and no european football - so they can play their first-team their entire season (unlike every other team near the top) - they are 16 Points behind with 1 more game played. By the time this season ends - they will be more than 30 points behind Liverpool
 

Gehrman

Phallic connoisseur, unlike shamans
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
11,139
Ole’s record at Molde or Cardiff is irrelevant at this point either way. He’s been here a year, during which myself and many others believe there’s been firm progress. There’s obvious deficiencies, but hopefully with the right signing or two we can make that step up.

If people aren’t happy with the progress we’ve made then fair enough, but at least judge the guy based on what he’s done here instead of trudging up previous management spells, which many have seemingly little knowledge of anyway.
Our results have been worse than under Moyes, Mourinho and LVG. So I don't really know about firm progress. I agree that the positives is seeing the younger players developing.
 

Alabaster Codify7

New Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
6,553
Location
Wales
He is probably too honest in some situation - but to say he isn't the brightest ? Do you seriously think any footballer who has played at the highest level - is stupid ? I think you have to be pretty darn clever to be able read and interpret the game, follow complex instructions etc at that level. And this is a person Ferguson had in his squad for 10 years and decided to give responsibility of training Uniteds biggest talents. Would he have done that if he thought OGS wasn't well above average in the intelligence-department ?

Two words - Jason McAteer.

There are shitloads of thick footballers mate. Not saying Ole is one of them but to claim that interpreting a game of football equates to general intelligence is naïve.
 

Zen86

Full Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
13,924
Location
Sunny Manc
Our results have been worse than under Moyes, Mourinho and LVG. So I don't really know about firm progress. I agree that the positives is seeing the younger players developing.
The difference was there were no positives with those managers whatsoever. There wasn’t even a glimmer of building for the future with any of those, just a series of complete calamities in the transfer market with an emphasis on the short term. And the football was awful.
 

lysglimt

Full Member
Scout
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
15,267
Two words - Jason McAteer.

There are shitloads of thick footballers mate. Not saying Ole is one of them but to claim that interpreting a game of football equates to general intelligence is naïve.
I am not talking about your average footballer - I am talking about a player who played for the best team in England for 10 years under Sir Alex Ferguson. I can promise you no player who has played regularly for the best clubs in England in the last 15-20 years are stupid. Uneducated sure, lacking in knowledge sure - but not stupid. Best example Rooney. To read the game like he could - you can't be stupid. But uneducated - without a doubt.

And you said you didn't think OGS was the brightest of blokes - in my world that means, you don't think he is too clever :)
 

Alabaster Codify7

New Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
6,553
Location
Wales
I am not talking about your average footballer - I am talking about a player who played for the best team in England for 10 years under Sir Alex Ferguson. I can promise you no player who has played regularly for the best clubs in England in the last 15-20 years are stupid. Uneducated sure, lacking in knowledge sure - but not stupid. Best example Rooney. To read the game like he could - you can't be stupid. But uneducated - without a doubt.

And you said you didn't think OGS was the brightest of blokes - in my world that means, you don't think he is too clever :)

I don't to be honest. I don't think he's stupid, I just think he's lacking in the savvy required to handle the media well. You said he's too honest, I think he doesn't engage his brain enough before speaking to the media - that might well be him being too honest, I agree. But he's coming out with some things that are difficult to swallow.
 

Dve

Full Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2019
Messages
2,911
“He demands a director of football guaranteed and the director of football cannot be Ed Woodward."

“He wants full freedom of first-team matters, including who can be sold. (He) wants Ed Woodward to step away from anything football at all and funds to be made available for purchases.”

So he wants a DOF pluss full freedom? Like he had at Tottenham where he was bemoaning his role as a simple coach? What am I missing here.

Also I find his "demands" to remove Woodward from football matters a bit strange, all the time Woodward is - by his own words - not involved in any.
 

Garethw

scored 25-30 goals a season as a right footed RW
Joined
Feb 7, 2005
Messages
16,997
Location
England:
If we pass on Poch to stick with Ole then I totally give up.
 

Runaway Sue

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 29, 2018
Messages
104
If we pass on Poch to stick with Ole then I totally give up.
I agree. Where's the tactics? What's the plan? Just hoof it up and hope for the best? Fleksnes is way out of his dept. Hope we can turn it around in the second half.
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
43,735
Location
Egypt
This is what I said post Norwich game, I really can't get how some find the current team playing good football or so exciting to watch but just "inconsistent". We play god awful football even while winning and only played good offensive minded football in 4 or 5 games this entire half of a season.
 

90 + 5min

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2019
Messages
5,229
If we pass on Poch to stick with Ole then I totally give up.
I agree. Where's the tactics? What's the plan? Just hoof it up and hope for the best? Fleksnes is way out of his dept. Hope we can turn it around in the second half.
This is what I said post Norwich game, I really can't get how some find the current team playing good football or so exciting to watch but just "inconsistent". We play god awful football even while winning and only played good offensive minded football in 4 or 5 games this entire half of a season.
Job done. Deserved to win. And still you see post like this. But it is what it is. Haters will hate whatever Solskjaer does.
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
43,735
Location
Egypt
Job done. Deserved to win. And still you see post like this. But it is what it is. Haters will hate whatever Solskjaer does.
I said the football is crap even while winning. My comment has nothing to do with the current result. Our football is garbage. Whatever people want to convince themselves they're enjoying it, it's not really my own problem.
 

Amar__

Geriatric lover and empath
Joined
Sep 2, 2010
Messages
24,108
Location
Sarajevo
Supports
MK Dons
He is here for almost a year, and his whole set up depends whether Rashford(or any other individual, but mostly Rashford) will do everything himself or not. He has no idea whatsoever, can someone please point out what exactly has he showed in this year, what kind of football are we supposed to play in the future under Ole?

I mean, even tonight, we literally scored our only goal from a defender panicking with the ball and kicking it out long, and Wolves made a meal out of it, it was terrible piece of defending that made Mata run behind the defence, slowest guy on earth.
 

cj_sparky

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2008
Messages
8,238
Job done. Deserved to win. And still you see post like this. But it is what it is. Haters will hate whatever Solskjaer does.
We won under Louis van Gaal when the football on display was equally as dire. We deserved to win tonight, but the game was awful.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.