Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[tenpoless]

Some unwritten rules that apply to all of the Ole threads on here.

• When United have won a game or two, and there is nothing new to complain about, discussion will revert back to how Ole did at Molde or Cardiff, and everyone shall have intimate knowledge and recollection of those periods
• When this option is exhausted and everyone bored, discussion will move onto Klopp and why we aren't as good as Liverpool and never will be
• Win or lose, there will be a consistent but vague criticism about coaching - be it poorly executed or complete lack thereof, but always without any analysis or detail to support it
• Frustrated Ole-outers will frequently resort to personal criticism of anyone who isn't as angry as they are, who they view as 'deluded' 'blinded by sentiment' 'brainwashed by the club' & 'lacking in any football education'

How ironic. It's what you all do, as well as calling those who don't agree with you 'idiots', you only have to scroll back a few pages. In fact, the Klopp comparison began when Ole 'supporter' told us to give him more time because Klopp needed time. I have also pointed out a few mistakes Ole made and none of the Ole supporters who joined the discussion could provide sensible arguments, it's all name calling out of anger and frustration.

I love it when someone says "Look at these bunch Ole out idiots, They will insult Ole once We lose" as if anticipating for it but when We win He comes in and say "Haha, fecking idiots! Ole Out where? hahaha Ole rules forever". Makes you wonder if They actually support the club. That's the state of this thread. Don't act all mighty on your high horse. Hypocrite that's what you are.

Anyway, enough with this Ole in and Ole out. Makes this place unbearable. I'm sick of these "look at me I'm more classy than you" posts when you're nothing better.

 

[SteveW]

Not sure how well that works as an argument (against Ole, as it were, which is how you presumably want to spin it).

If I read this right, Rosenborg's value * was almost twice that of Molde when Ole took over. Molde were the 3rd most valuable team (on par, roughly, with three or four others). Rosenborg were also the defending champions, Molde finished 6th in the previous season.

Ole won the league in his first season - and then defended the title the following season. Without looking at ins/outs or any other relevant factor (just the table), that certainly looks like a pretty impressive achievement, not least since Molde had never won a single title before Ole took over.

In his second stint, Molde finished 6th, 5th and 2nd twice - which isn't positively impressive, of course, but the trajectory is nevertheless positive and doesn't seem to support the idea that the team stagnated badly with him in charge - it would rather seem to support the idea that he was on his way towards building another title winning side when he left for United.

Anyway, it's pointless enough to just look at sheer numbers here - you have to factor in ins/outs and other variables, which other posters more knowledgeable than me have already done in this thread (and multiple others, no doubt).

* Which is neither here nor there to begin with, one might add: Transfermarkt's "valuation" of a club at any given time is just the sum total of what said club's players are presumably worth in the current market (based on certain variables) - it says nothing about a club's financial resources (i.e. ability to spend on transfers/wages). As far as I know, Rosenborg have easily outspent all other Norwegian clubs on both transfers and wages consistently for decades now.

This makes sense.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Makes this place unbearable.

You're certainly right about that.

On that note - couldn't this thread be merged with the other (mega) one? In theory, this one should be about arguments pro/contra his (immediate or imminent) sacking - and the other one about his "performance(s)" as manager. But in practice they're both filled with exactly the same arguments (mostly made by the same posters).

 

[SteveW]

What's the point in keeping the poll there?

Took if after a bad result and then closed it. There's zero chance over 50% of supporters want Ole out.

 

[shaky]

What's the point in keeping the poll there?

Took if after a bad result and then closed it. There's zero chance over 50% of supporters want Ole out.

It's just so we have a permanent record of everyone who jumped the gun and demanded immediate sacking, so we can look back and laugh at them in the future.

 

[Escobar]

Some unwritten rules that apply to all of the Ole threads on here.

• When United have won a game or two, and there is nothing new to complain about, discussion will revert back to how Ole did at Molde or Cardiff, and everyone shall have intimate knowledge and recollection of those periods
• When this option is exhausted and everyone bored, discussion will move onto Klopp and why we aren't as good as Liverpool and never will be
• Win or lose, there will be a consistent but vague criticism about coaching - be it poorly executed or complete lack thereof, but always without any analysis or detail to support it
• Frustrated Ole-outers will frequently resort to personal criticism of anyone who isn't as angry as they are, who they view as 'deluded' 'blinded by sentiment' 'brainwashed by the club' & 'lacking in any football education'

You will celebrate a great season in case we manage to reach top 4 I guess (which is a big if)

 

[Chesterlestreet]

There's zero chance over 50% of supporters want Ole out.

Definitely not "out now - and damn the consequences!".

As I've said before, there's a silent contingent here which amounts to quite a large number of Caf members, including members who are currently active (but who don't bother to cast a vote). My guess is that the majority of those silent members are not "out now - and damn the consequences!".

ETA And, as such, the poll does not actually reflect the mood of the Caf. If, hypothetically, you did a poll with the alternatives being:

a) sack him now, just feckin' sack him

and

b) I'm not sure sacking him right now would achieve anything at all

...you certainly wouldn't see a huge majority opting for a). If anything, I suspect b) would win easily if every active member actually bothered to vote.

 

[theklr]

Think is mind-boggling that anyone really has made their mind up when so much is still in play.

Results are the only thing we should be concerned about, especially regarding our current poor squad/injury record.

If he fails to qualify to CL he should be sacked, if he makes it he should stay and get another year.

Yes, its tempting since Pochettino is free on the market, but with CL he should at least get another year to show what he can do with a fully - set squad of his likings.

 

[SteveW]

How ironic. It's what you all do, as well as calling those who don't agree with you 'idiots', you only have to scroll back a few pages. In fact, the Klopp comparison began when Ole 'supporter' told us to give him more time because Klopp needed time. I have also pointed out a few mistakes Ole made and none of the Ole supporters who joined the discussion could provide sensible arguments, it's all name calling out of anger and frustration.

I love it when someone says "Look at these bunch Ole out idiots, They will insult Ole once We lose" as if anticipating for it but when We win He comes in and say "Haha, fecking idiots! Ole Out where? hahaha Ole rules forever". Makes you wonder if They actually support the club. That's the state of this thread. Don't act all mighty on your high horse. Hypocrite that's what you are.

Anyway, enough with this Ole in and Ole out. Makes this place unbearable. I'm sick of these "look at me I'm more classy than you" posts when you're nothing better.

Ole does need time. Literally any manager would. I don't get what is wrong with that suggestion. If an elite manager like Klopp needed time a young manager on the way up surely does too?

Ole is making us better. The tiny squad he had this season has obscured this in terms of the table. We've had to use too many bad players like Pereira, Lingard, Mata, Young etc. We haven't been able to cope with some rotten luck on the injury front. It's cost us points in games we would have expected to win.

But with everybody fit we have a much better team now than when he took over. Players are improving, leaders are emerging and his signings are showing their quality and improving the team. If people can't see the progress being made I dont know what to say to them. It seems like a mix of collective ignorance and stubbornness at this stage.

4 good signings out of 4. Heaps of dead wood moved on. Good players to return from injury. Ole has beaten City ×2, Chelsea x3, Spurs, Leicester and been the only manager to take a point off Liverpool. He's clearly a good tactician. You don't get those results otherwise.

It's well past time people started to give him some support. There is ample evidence that he's on the right track.

 

[Mainoldo]

Think is mind-boggling that anyone really has made their mind up when so much is still in play.

Results are the only thing we should be concerned about, especially regarding our current poor squad/injury record.

If he fails to qualify to CL he should be sacked, if he makes it he should stay and get another year.

Yes, its tempting since Pochettino is free on the market, but with CL he should at least get another year to show what he can do with a fully - set squad of his likings.

Agreed but you have to have more context to this. What is the point of him getting Champions League just to be pathetic in it. Wouldn’t you want to get Champs league and not have a manager who will try and soaking up all the pressure when we finally come up against a good team. What would be the point in having Bruno Sancho etc to do all this.

 

[SteveW]

Definitely not "out now - and damn the consequences!".

As I've said before, there's a silent contingent here which amounts to quite a large number of Caf members, including members who are currently active (but who don't bother to cast a vote). My guess is that the majority of those silent members are not "out now - and damn the consequences!".

ETA And, as such, the poll does not actually reflect the mood of the Caf. If, hypothetically, you did a poll with the alternatives being:

a) sack him now, just feckin' sack him

and

b) I'm not sure sacking him right now would achieve anything at all

...you certainly wouldn't see a huge majority opting for a). If anything, I suspect b) would win easily if every active member actually bothered to vote.

Agreed. General mood seems good since Bruno replaced Pereira in the side.

Managers improving the team with good signings usually has that affect. But obviously not reflected in that poll closed after the wolves game.

 

[Gehrman]

Some unwritten rules that apply to all of the Ole threads on here.

• When United have won a game or two, and there is nothing new to complain about, discussion will revert back to how Ole did at Molde or Cardiff, and everyone shall have intimate knowledge and recollection of those periods
• When this option is exhausted and everyone bored, discussion will move onto Klopp and why we aren't as good as Liverpool and never will be
• Win or lose, there will be a consistent but vague criticism about coaching - be it poorly executed or complete lack thereof, but always without any analysis or detail to support it
• Frustrated Ole-outers will frequently resort to personal criticism of anyone who isn't as angry as they are, who they view as 'deluded' 'blinded by sentiment' 'brainwashed by the club' & 'lacking in any football education'

Try and do this the other way around. It's usually the Ole in supporters who pulls false facts out their arses, especially about Klopp and SAF. When that fails, they start invoking Pep and Zidane.

I think it's fine to give credit where credits due, it's also fine to point out injuries to key players have been a problem, it's also fine to point out that our transfer strategy in the summer left us with a thin squad and it's also fine to point out that despite that we have now strung 2 wins together, we still have our lowest point tally in decades. It's also fine not to be convinced that Ole is an elite manager and apparently a great winner because he's won the Norwegian league.

 

[RedDevilUnited369]

@RedDevilUnited369

To answer the first question. Had we had the same amount of points after 27 games last year, we would've been 12 points behind Chelsea in 5 and 15 points behind Arsenal in 4 (albeit with a game in hand). At the same time, 1 point above 7th and 8th. The main reason why we are still in the top 4 fight this year is due to Arsenal, Spurs and even Chelsea being terrible. 41 points after 27 matches in 2017-2018, would have put us in 6th, 4 points behind Arsenal in 5 and 11 points behind Spurs in 4th.

So all PL teams under Leicester are being badly coached?

And all the players from these teams are playing for bad coaches instead of downing tools?

You never answered my question really...

It’s clear there has been a shift in the PL since all these teams are being badly coached.

Or could it be Leicester are just had a good start to the season whilst the rest of the other “big six” were mismanaged as clubs in a time of change, a rise in player prices and wages and the only well run clubs were actually Liverpool and City?

It seems Utd have been badly coached since SAF left besides one flukey season with Jose.

My point is I believe if Ole was in charge of a well run club like Pool or City they would still be a head of Utd with a Klopp in charge or a Pep. These managers have been given the tools (not just players) to help make their clubs successful.

UTD is such a badly run club that name brand managers couldn’t do it. Ole has at least, although more surgery is needed brought the best football in the last seven years. I’ve watched dross under Jose and LVG and Moyes wasn’t really given a fair crack.

We shall see if Brendan is given the tools I.e. great recruitment staff, better facilities etc to continue the form Leicester have shown this season.

Ole is bringing the club back to where it should be but unfortunately he won’t be here to see the trophies once we’re back.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

General mood seems good since Bruno replaced Pereira in the side.

Yep - let's just hope (pray, if that's yer bag) that he's the real thing. Could have an immense impact on how this season turns out.

Anyway - I think I'm somewhat typical in the sense that I'm not an "Ole outer" but nevertheless not convinced Ole is our long-term saviour at all.

I'm definitely not in the (to quote the actual poll alternative) "Sack Ole now & appoint new coach ASAP" camp. The reasons for this are multiple and several of them have nothing to do with Ole himself - and I haven't bothered to cast a vote either way. I think there are many like me - and many of those don't even bother to comment in threads like this one, so their stance on the matter isn't recorded in any form (so to speak).

 

[b82REZ]

What's the point in keeping the poll there?

Took if after a bad result and then closed it. There's zero chance over 50% of supporters want Ole out.

The poll was open for weeks.

Stop trying to spin it as if the majority voted after some knee jerk reaction to a loss.

I'm sure if the figures suited your agenda you'd want it posted on the front page of the site.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Stop trying to spin it as if the majority voted after some knee jerk reaction to a loss.

They didn't, that's true.

But the poll was reset and that reset favoured the "Ole out - now!" vote due to the timing: there are numerous posters on here who are dead set against him and jumped on the chance to reaffirm that stance. The question remains, though, how representative those posters are.

Not that it matters - what people on here think is largely irrelevant. But if you think that fifty percent of Caf members want Ole sacked, here and now - and feck the consequences - I think you're wrong.

I honestly don't know a single United fan personally who is of that opinion. Many have concerns about Ole - certainly. But that doesn't mean they think he deserves to be booted here and now. Again, though, this is a somewhat complex issue - it's not a matter of being convinced Ole is destined to bring us glory. Hardly anyone I know is convinced of that.

 

[Tom Cato]

@RedDevilUnited369

To answer the first question. Had we had the same amount of points after 27 games last year, we would've been 12 points behind Chelsea in 5 and 15 points behind Arsenal in 4 (albeit with a game in hand). At the same time, 1 point above 7th and 8th. The main reason why we are still in the top 4 fight this year is due to Arsenal, Spurs and even Chelsea being terrible. 41 points after 27 matches in 2017-2018, would have put us in 6th, 4 points behind Arsenal in 5 and 11 points behind Spurs in 4th.

And where do these points come from?

Firstly, you're doing a pretty massive disservice to the quality of other teams now. it's not a random happenchance that Wolverhampton and mid-tier teams are sniffing higher rankings. The league is WAY more competitive now than it was 10 years ago.

When all clubs get a significantly bigger financial budget to acquire assets with, its a natural evolution that those teams will in fact, improve. There's really very few teams in the Premier League these days that will just roll over and get beaten. There's 4 teams in the league this year that are poor outliers. The rest have taken at least one or two big six scalp.

Is Manchester City poorly coached? 6 losses is just 2 more than us. They have more victories, infinitely in thanks to amazing options up front. We had 1 star, and he's currently injured.

is Tottenham poorly coached with both Pochettino AND Mourinho at the helm this season? What's their excuse?

Is Leicester anywhere near top4 if Jamie Vardy isn't scoring out of his mind? Of course they aren't.

This shock that we're so much better now that Bruno Fernandes is here makes me want to scream. It's like a shocked pikachu face nightmare where we hate on the team and the manager and dream of Pochettino so hard you all nearly soil yourself at night, yet feign genuine surprse when a quality player comes in and, lo behold, we're a way better team. Which is it? The players on the pitch or the manager?

"it's a combination numbnuts, Ole isnt good enough". - I know some of you were going to reply this. Please, I implore you, read that sentence again, consider the recent addition, and figure out how asinine that statement is.

 

[Seven Seas Sardines]

Yep - let's just hope (pray, if that's yer bag) that he's the real thing. Could have an immense impact on how this season turns out.

Even if he ends up less involved and impressive from now on, he's still lethal on set pieces whose importance cannot be understated.

 

[Tom Cato]

The poll was open for weeks.

Stop trying to spin it as if the majority voted after some knee jerk reaction to a loss.

I'm sure if the figures suited your agenda you'd want it posted on the front page of the site.

The poll actually leaves out one mandatory option that immediately favors the Ole out congregation.

As a opinion instrument, this is actually quite useless. Granted I understand this is all in good fun for the forum.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Even if he ends up less involved and impressive from now on, he's still lethal on set pieces whose importance cannot be understated.

Yeah - hoping to see him blast a FK home before too long. And he should be on corners per default (as well as pens, obviously).

He just looks a player in general, though - doesn't he? Determined to make an impact - and doing it. Feel very good about him, I must say.

 

[b82REZ]

They didn't, that's true.

But the poll was reset and that reset favoured the "Ole out - now!" vote due to the timing: there are numerous posters on here who are dead set against him and jumped on the chance to reaffirm that stance. The question remains, though, how representative those posters are.

Not that it matters - what people on here think is largely irrelevant. But if you think that fifty percent of Caf members want Ole sacked, here and now - and feck the consequences - I think you're wrong.

I honestly don't know a single United fan personally who is of that opinion. Many have concerns about Ole - certainly. But that doesn't mean they think he deserves to be booted here and now. Again, though, this is a somewhat complex issue - it's not a matter of being convinced Ole is destined to bring us glory. Hardly anyone I know is convinced of that.

Actually it was often the Ole In voters that were asking for the poll to be reset with the third option. And similarly to what we're seeing now it was after a couple of wins and they were feeling bullish. The poster I quoted is one of the worst for only appearing after wins and then making out that the poll results are not representative. If anything I'd say the In vote is the option most likely to not be representative of the larger fan base at United because so many opponents voted for him to stay.

While I do think we should have gotten rid at Xmas and he should be shipped out asap as he will never be good enough to take us back to the top I also knew the chances of that happening were slim to none. He was always going to be here until CL was not available to us anymore. If the rumours about Poch only being available in the summer are true I expect that also had an influence on any decision over Ole's future this season.

 

[theklr]

Agreed but you have to have more context to this. What is the point of him getting Champions League just to be pathetic in it. Wouldn’t you want to get Champs league and not have a manager who will try and soaking up all the pressure when we finally come up against a good team. What would be the point in having Bruno Sancho etc to do all this.

I think that no matter who the manager would be, you couldnt expect this more or less new and young team (yes, I know that have been spoken about to death, but it is still a valid point) to perform in their first Champions League season against some of Europe best teams. As a comparison, just look at Chelsea and Frank - noone really expected them to perform against Bayern. It was a miracle in itself that they even went through to the knock-out stages.

Think we need to do this step by step. But if he would qualify again and then play pathetic after another season of the team playing together, then it would be sackable.
Especially if he just continues to lay back and tries to counter.

That aside, we know that even as ugly/defensive as the play seems, the team performs very well against supposedly stronger opposition with lots of possession.
Especially if we have a fully fit team with Bruno having some time with Rashford. Not to mention that almost any summer signing we do will improve us quite a lot.

 

[Mihai]

So all PL teams under Leicester are being badly coached?

And all the players from these teams are playing for bad coaches instead of downing tools?

You never answered my question really...

It’s clear there has been a shift in the PL since all these teams are being badly coached.

Or could it be Leicester are just had a good start to the season whilst the rest of the other “big six” were mismanaged as clubs in a time of change, a rise in player prices and wages and the only well run clubs were actually Liverpool and City?

It seems Utd have been badly coached since SAF left besides one flukey season with Jose.

My point is I believe if Ole was in charge of a well run club like Pool or City they would still be a head of Utd with a Klopp in charge or a Pep. These managers have been given the tools (not just players) to help make their clubs successful.

UTD is such a badly run club that name brand managers couldn’t do it. Ole has at least, although more surgery is needed brought the best football in the last seven years. I’ve watched dross under Jose and LVG and Moyes wasn’t really given a fair crack.

We shall see if Brendan is given the tools I.e. great recruitment staff, better facilities etc to continue the form Leicester have shown this season.

Ole is bringing the club back to where it should be but unfortunately he won’t be here to see the trophies once we’re back.

The fact that we have 41 points after matchday 27 and are still 3 points away from top 4, has more to do with the fact that Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea have rubbish seasons rather than show how good or bad United is coached. In fact, we wouldn't have anywhere near top 4 in the previous 2 years (I could go back and look at the previous years, but I presume the trend will be the same).

 

[RedDevilUnited369]

I also find it hilarious that you all want Ole out and Poch in...and then you look at Ole vs Poch in the PL since Ole came in and it’s laughable at how badly Poch performed.

I don’t count CL final as anything can happen in cup competitions..last season we beat PSG over two legs.

The fact that we have 41 points after matchday 27 and are still 3 points away from top 4, has more to do with the fact that Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea have rubbish seasons rather than show how good or bad United is coached. In fact, we wouldn't have anywhere near top 4 in the previous 2 years (I could go back and look at the previous years, but I presume the trend will be the same).

My point being is that these teams have been badly run just like Utd.

Spurs never invested for two years.
Arsenal are Arsenal.
Chelsea have spent over £100m in sacked managers.

Utd has recruited really badly with no clear plan until last summer.

We are all as bad as each other compared to City and Liverpool because we were badly run and didn’t foresee the shift in times in terms of the money now in the PL.

City and Liverpool were prepared.

And that’s another thing, people who say we have been in a rebuild for the last seven years are wrong. Ole started the rebuild last summer. Before that we brought players that don’t fit into a team.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Actually it was often the Ole In voters that were asking for the poll to be reset with the third option.

Maybe so, but my point is that there are numerous...not "Ole in" but "not necessarily Ole out" posters on here who do not vote in these polls. Whereas the "Ole out" voters (who want him gone regardless, pretty much) do vote.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Maybe so, but my point is that there are numerous...not "Ole in" but "not necessarily Ole out" posters on here who do not vote in these polls. Whereas the "Ole out" voters (who want him gone regardless, pretty much) do vote.

You're failing to take into account the huge numbers of opposition voters who are voting to keep him in, though.

 

[sunama]

I think it's fine to give credit where credits due, it's also fine to point out injuries to key players have been a problem, it's also fine to point out that our transfer strategy in the summer left us with a thin squad and it's also fine to point out that despite that we have now strung 2 wins together,

The Ole inners really shouldn't use the argument that we have 2 matches in a row.
If winning 2 matches in a row is something to boast about, that manager should be instantly fired.
Winning 2 matches in a row should be the bare minimum we should expect of any MUFC manager....but then again, standards have dropped to levels not seen since the days the club were relegated.
We are heading towards our lowest points total since the EPL started. Why are so many people ignoring this?

 

[Mihai]

And where do these points come from?

Firstly, you're doing a pretty massive disservice to the quality of other teams now. it's not a random happenchance that Wolverhampton and mid-tier teams are sniffing higher rankings. The league is WAY more competitive now than it was 10 years ago.

When all clubs get a significantly bigger financial budget to acquire assets with, its a natural evolution that those teams will in fact, improve. There's really very few teams in the Premier League these days that will just roll over and get beaten. There's 4 teams in the league this year that are poor outliers. The rest have taken at least one or two big six scalp.

Is Manchester City poorly coached? 6 losses is just 2 more than us. They have more victories, infinitely in thanks to amazing options up front. We had 1 star, and he's currently injured.

is Tottenham poorly coached with both Pochettino AND Mourinho at the helm this season? What's their excuse?

Is Leicester anywhere near top4 if Jamie Vardy isn't scoring out of his mind? Of course they aren't.

This shock that we're so much better now that Bruno Fernandes is here makes me want to scream. It's like a shocked pikachu face nightmare where we hate on the team and the manager and dream of Pochettino so hard you all nearly soil yourself at night, yet feign genuine surprse when a quality player comes in and, lo behold, we're a way better team. Which is it? The players on the pitch or the manager?

"it's a combination numbnuts, Ole isnt good enough". - I know some of you were going to reply this. Please, I implore you, read that sentence again, consider the recent addition, and figure out how asinine that statement is.

It's not "random happenchance" that Wolves and mid-tiers are so close to top 4. It's because Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea have had bad seasons so far. Take Wolves for example, they were on 40 points this time last season (39 now). They were 8th, 14 points from Arsenal in 4th. This year, they are 8th as well, 5 points from Chelsea in 4th.

 

[jem]

I also find it hilarious that you all want Ole out and Poch in...and then you look at Ole vs Poch in the PL since Ole came in and it’s laughable at how badly Poch performed.

I don’t count CL final as anything can happen in cup competitions..last season we beat PSG over two legs.



My point being is that these teams have been badly run just like Utd.

Spurs never invested for two years.
Arsenal are Arsenal.
Chelsea have spent over £100m in sacked managers.

Utd has recruited really badly with no clear plan until last summer.

We are all as bad as each other compared to City and Liverpool because we were badly run and didn’t foresee the shift in times in terms of the money now in the PL.

City and Liverpool were prepared.

And that’s another thing, people who say we have been in a rebuild for the last seven years are wrong. Ole started the rebuild last summer. Before that we brought players that don’t fit into a team.

I think Woodward, Ole and co get far too much credit for having some kind of clear plan. The only player brought in early was James; the Maguire transfer dragged on and on (for a player that Jose, for all his many faults, had advocated bringing in a year earlier.) Then we seemingly passed on Bruno, only to bring him in late in the January window. Yes, the transfers made under Ole have been relatively successful, but they don't really smack of a clear, coherent plan to me, unless that plan is 'buy mostly British.'

 

[meamth]

The fact that we have 41 points after matchday 27 and are still 3 points away from top 4, has more to do with the fact that Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea have rubbish seasons rather than show how good or bad United is coached. In fact, we wouldn't have anywhere near top 4 in the previous 2 years (I could go back and look at the previous years, but I presume the trend will be the same).

Can we stop with poor coaching argument?
Ole outs agenda is so annoying, I haven't heard any pundits saying the staff are stupid coaches either. They are paid for being "football expert ".

Look at you, football genius fighting in forum.
Get your coaching badge.

 

[Tom Cato]

It's not "random happenchance" that Wolves and mid-tiers are so close to top 4. It's because Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea have had bad seasons so far. Take Wolves for example, they were on 40 points this time last season (39 now). They were 8th, 14 points from Arsenal in 4th. This year, they are 8th as well, 5 points from Chelsea in 4th.

If the sum of all parts equal the same, you can't point the finger to one and blame the others.

I think you missed my point. Clubs are having bad seasons: Because the opposition is much, much better, in combination with injury issues some clubs simply did not have last season. (Manchester United, Tottenham)

 

[sunama]

It's just so we have a permanent record of everyone who jumped the gun and demanded immediate sacking, so we can look back and laugh at them in the future.

My friend, I would love it if Ole proved the doubters wrong, we went on a 40 match unbeaten run and competed well in all competitions, this year and next. But sadly, that isn't going to happen.
The reality is that we have the lowest points total since the EPL started and will be knocked out of any competition, the moment we face anyone decent.

We were out of the league title race, before it started. << this is fact which nobody can dispute
We got knocked out of the league cup, by MCFC. << this is a fact
FA and EL cups - we haven't faced any decent opposition yet. << this is opinion, but will soon because fact

 

[b82REZ]

Maybe so, but my point is that there are numerous...not "Ole in" but "not necessarily Ole out" posters on here who do not vote in these polls. Whereas the "Ole out" voters (who want him gone regardless, pretty much) do vote.

I'm not sure what your point is because I've never denied that. My original post was to call out a poster who loves to appear in here after a couple of wins and act all high and mighty and try and make out that the poll is incorrect.

I'm not sure what your issue with people voting out, yet the exact same can be applied to the posters who voted In, who want him in regardless.

There seems to be a narrative over the last few pages that the 50%that want him gone asap plus the 20% that want him gone at the end of the season were somehow knee jerking. There is a small percentage of posters like Bilbo, SteveW and Class of 63 that love to act all high and mighty after a couple of wins and love to push narratives about the 70%.

 

[SteveW]

Actually it was often the Ole In voters that were asking for the poll to be reset with the third option. And similarly to what we're seeing now it was after a couple of wins and they were feeling bullish. The poster I quoted is one of the worst for only appearing after wins and then making out that the poll results are not representative. If anything I'd say the In vote is the option most likely to not be representative of the larger fan base at United because so many opponents voted for him to stay.

While I do think we should have gotten rid at Xmas and he should be shipped out asap as he will never be good enough to take us back to the top I also knew the chances of that happening were slim to none. He was always going to be here until CL was not available to us anymore. If the rumours about Poch only being available in the summer are true I expect that also had an influence on any decision over Ole's future this season.

This place is a sea of bile and stupidity after bad results. Nobody in their right mind would go on here and expect to hear anything sensible. I'll happily continue being "one of the worst" for not being on here after bad results. For the sake of my sanity if nothing else.

I speak to a lot of United fans in real life and the vast majority are in the give him time camp. Most of these are sensible people who've watched United a long time. They understand the context of our results this season and can see how the squad is being rebuilt. Most of us believe we are on the right track and thats mostly down to Ole and Micks influence.

And I've still yet to hear a cogent argument to why "he'll never be good enough" as you lads love to keep saying. He signs good players and beats teams like City and Chelsea regularly. That's exactly what we need in a manager. The guy you all want Poch does neither of those things consistently.

 

[Mainoldo]

I think that no matter who the manager would be, you couldnt expect this more or less new and young team (yes, I know that have been spoken about to death, but it is still a valid point) to perform in their first Champions League season against some of Europe best teams. As a comparison, just look at Chelsea and Frank - noone really expected them to perform against Bayern. It was a miracle in itself that they even went through to the knock-out stages.

Think we need to do this step by step. But if he would qualify again and then play pathetic after another season of the team playing together, then it would be sackable.
Especially if he just continues to lay back and tries to counter.

That aside, we know that even as ugly/defensive as the play seems, the team performs very well against supposedly stronger opposition with lots of possession.
Especially if we have a fully fit team with Bruno having some time with Rashford. Not to mention that almost any summer signing we do will improve us quite a lot.

Again in context. How many experienced and quality players does Frank have to be competing further than they already are. Your talking about a team that basically has two championship players leading their attack.

This is all pre-assumptions but our team would be filled with Champions League experience. The only new faces being Harry Maguire (very experienced football wise) and AWB. I don’t see how it’s the same at all. I would expect a Manchester United team going into the Champions League next season to have a minimum requirement of Quarter finals.

 

[Foxbatt]

It is the basics that he gets wrong. We have never had any near post corners or any variations in any corners or free kicks. That is basics. We then play two midfield players parallel to each to each other in Matic and Fred and that means the centre space abandoned and given to the opposition. That means anything our CBs head is picked up by the opposition and anything our CF does not control gets picked up by the opposition.
Our team do no have any plays at all. It is just individual players doing their own thing. Anyone who is watching can see it. All they do is put their heads down and sprint. They only pass when they have no options. At least for now Bruno is passing but I wonder how long it will take for him to follow the rest of the players?
There is so much space available if they train to utilise it. These are points all ignored by the Ole in platoon.
I do not want Poch. I do think he is the man to take us to trophies. Is he better than Ole? Yes he is as he has proven it. Are there many better managers than Ole? Of course plenty. Nagelsmann is an upcoming manager who is top class coach and is young and progressive and his teams play much better football than we do. He would be a good coach for United. His teams do not only play counter attacking football at all. His team can play any kind.

 

[ghagua]

Can we stop with poor coaching argument?
Ole outs agenda is so annoying, I haven't heard any pundits saying the staff are stupid coaches either. They are paid for being "football expert ".,

Look at you, football genius fighting in forum.
Get your coaching badge.

The ones who would normally be criticizing a United manager have their own agenda. The former United players will, of course, protect and back Ole. Former players of opposition teams are loving the fact that United are struggling and would love United to retain Ole. A manager imprints his footballing philosophy within weeks at a club, if not getting the results. Ole has been the manager of United for over a year, and his philosophy is counter-attacking shite that is not a long term winning solution.

 

[Mihai]

Can we stop with poor coaching argument?
Ole outs agenda is so annoying, I haven't heard any pundits saying the staff are stupid coaches either. They are paid for being "football expert ".

Look at you, football genius fighting in forum.
Get your coaching badge.

I don't know if you've noticed, but i didn't once mention poor coaching. It was my reply to the question why United are still in the top 4 fight (or something similar).

But then if you consider football pundits as some sort of benchmark to analyse how good or bad a football coach is, I can't really blame you for missing the point. Take a look at some quotes from the "football expert", Mr Michael Owen, to understand why.

 

[SteveW]

I'm not sure what your point is because I've never denied that. My original post was to call out a poster who loves to appear in here after a couple of wins and act all high and mighty and try and make out that the poll is incorrect.

I'm not sure what your issue with people voting out, yet the exact same can be applied to the posters who voted In, who want him in regardless.

There seems to be a narrative over the last few pages that the 50%that want him gone asap plus the 20% that want him gone at the end of the season were somehow knee jerking. There is a small percentage of posters like Bilbo, SteveW and Class of 63 that love to act all high and mighty after a couple of wins and love to push narratives about the 70%.

"High and mighty"

Mate, we just disagree with you. The high and mighty stuff is projection on your part. Talk football please.

 

[sunama]

Can we stop with poor coaching argument?
Ole outs agenda is so annoying, I haven't heard any pundits saying the staff are stupid coaches either. They are paid for being "football expert ".

Look at you, football genius fighting in forum.
Get your coaching badge.

By your argument, nobody should ever post anything about football, unless you have coaching badges or appropriate credentials.
That would make this forum very boring and empty. No?

In most Western countries at least, you are allowed to say anything you want, providing you are not causing harm to somebody or a group of people.
To watch a match and conclude that the coaching is poor, is within everybody's right.

Here's one for you: how do you explain our worst EPL start ever?