Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Un4givableB]

Pep was interested in Maguire, allegedly. But not at that price. Anyway, I wouldn't class him as a player not suited for possession based football.

Anyway, what matters is - obviously - what Ole's "vision" for United amounts to. His ideal brand of football has been described as a hybrid of sorts: he admires both Pep and Klopp - but also embraces a more "pragmatic" approach when it's called for. Which means - yes, what? It means feck all until it translates to something on the pitch, for Manchester United. As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't make much sense to judge players according to any fixed idea about what sort of football works and not: nothing is set in stone in that regard. Football evolves all the time and what seems outdated here and now could very well be embraced again by "progressive" managers tomorrow.

I almost spat my tea out when l read 'Ole's "vision"', all wannabe football managers have 'visions' of the wonderful football they want their teams to play. 'Ole's "vision"' is all theory, the kind of football he wants to play, he has no history of
playing, he doesn't have the know-how to implement his 'vision. We are going to get the kind of football OGS being playing for the last 10 years but with better players.

Like Spurs are going to get Jose ball, the only difference is that they might win something.

 

[SteveW]

I almost spat my tea out when l read 'Ole's "vision"', all wannabe football managers have 'visions' of the wonderful football they want their teams to play. 'Ole's "vision"' is all theory, the kind of football he wants to play, he has no history of
playing, he doesn't have the know-how to implement his 'vision. We are going to get the kind of football OGS being playing for the last 10 years but with better players.

Like Spurs are going to get Jose ball, the only difference is that they might win something.

Molde played a fast attacking high pressing style. That's the kind of football he wants us playing. Takes time.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I suggest Ole would be very good as DOF. If Poch come, I really hope Ole stays and handle the transfer activity with Poch. It would be much safer to Woodward.

Giving Ole the DOF job would be yet again another sentimental appointment. However since Ole has been in the club the only thing good he has been doing so far is playing the DOF role. He has a long term vision for the club and so far he has been buying players and targeting players that fit that vision. This is why most people think he should stay. This is the job of a DOF.

However he is failing to do the main job as a coach which is implements tactics that are effective and easily identifiable. When you watch City Liverpool Leceister Brighton Sheffield Chelsea etc you can see tactics and a style of play that we use to identify those clubs. Ole talks about attacking football a lot but we have hardly ever played that. We don't play with this urgency that every attacking to should have instead we're rather complacent. I strong believe that if we had a good coach that is tactically sound paired with Ole's vision and ideas then our future would look very bright. I don't think Ole should be DOF though. I'm sure we can find other DOFs that have similar visions to Ole. Visions and ideas are very easy to have anyways. What matters is how you implement them off the pitch and on the pitch

 

[Chesterlestreet]

'Ole's "vision"' is all theory, the kind of football he wants to play, he has no history of
playing, he doesn't have the know-how to implement his 'vision.

Perhaps he doesn't - and I pretty much indicated as much, didn't I?

 

[Un4givableB]

Perhaps he doesn't - and I pretty much indicated as much, didn't I?

Maybe l didn't make myself clear, I pretty much 100% agree with you, it the person you was quoting l disagree with.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Maybe l didn't make myself clear, I pretty much 100% agree with you, it the person you was quoting l disagree with.

Ah! Sorry - hard to keep track these days.

 

[glazed]

Poch would be the first managerial appointment at United this century I actually welcomed. That's pretty damning in my eyes.

 

[Cassidy]

Pep was interested in Maguire, allegedly. But not at that price. Anyway, I wouldn't class him as a player not suited for possession based football.

Anyway, what matters is - obviously - what Ole's "vision" for United amounts to. His ideal brand of football has been described as a hybrid of sorts: he admires both Pep and Klopp - but also embraces a more "pragmatic" approach when it's called for. Which means - yes, what? It means feck all until it translates to something on the pitch, for Manchester United. As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't make much sense to judge players according to any fixed idea about what sort of football works and not: nothing is set in stone in that regard. Football evolves all the time and what seems outdated here and now could very well be embraced again by "progressive" managers tomorrow.

City do not exactly have the best record of purchasing CBs

They were also interested in Fred and Sanchez, both flops at United

 

[AneRu]

Paying loads for a player because he's just an upgrade on what we have is what I disagree on. You don't blow the majority of your budget on a player because of that single reason. You do that if such player is going to have an unprecedented and exceptional effect on your time that it's totally worth it. So far Maguire has not. He has been average at best tbh, a marginal upgrade on Smalling, which is disappointing for me. Overpaying for "good" players while ignoring other positions for such reasons is why we are where we are and it hasn't changed last summer. These good players never reach the level expected from them based on the price tag and at the same time you don't have enough money after that to buy more players thus the situation ends up being underwhelming. That has been our problem and is still present till now.

I wanted Maguire previously as I said but I have been extremely disappointed by his overall performance and the fact we paid even more than what we would have paid in 2018 for him by about 10-20m makes it even worse for me. 60m would have looked decent for him and we would have got some more money to spend on other players. Is this hindsight? Yes, a big portion of it is, but I expect the club scouts and negotiators to know better than transfers than fans on a football forum, including me.

Then two years down the line people will be acting all shocked that the Glazers are refusing to spend big money on another central defender to replace a record breaking CB who hasn't lived up to expectations. Spending that much on a single player is always a huge risk but spending it on a player like Maguire was beyond stupid especially if it meant that we couldn't address other crucial positions in the team. I find it baffling that people look at the signings of Maguire and AWB then look to use them as a basis for justifying Ole's continued stay claiming that he did great work which should continue when he spent a tonne of money to emerge with a worse squad than the one he inherited.

 

[wolvored]

I hate saying it but Klopp would have been the perfect manager for us. Fecking Woody and has "Disneyland" sales pitch

And i did not mean that buying and selling was all there is to being a manager, that is daft, but right now its the first order of business. Coaching is all well and good, but there is no point in coaching a bunch of players that never are going to be part of a league winning team (which is our target)

I think its too early to write him of as a bad manager just, yet but you are as entitled to your opinion as i am

No klopp said he would have come but his missus didnt fancy it

 

[wolvored]

I dont get this maguire bollocks. Most people were happy we got him when we did. Same as Wan. Now they ain't performing like they did at their previous clubs, which they wont anyway until they get used to their teammates and style of play. Remember Vidic and Evra and everyone was saying Fergie had dropped one as they wasnt good enough in the first season. Some players need a season to settle in some are ok straight away and anything inbetween

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

I dont get this maguire bollocks. Most people were happy we got him when we did. Same as Wan. Now they ain't performing like they did at their previous clubs, which they wont anyway until they get used to their teammates and style of play. Remember Vidic and Evra and everyone was saying Fergie had dropped one as they wasnt good enough in the first season. Some players need a season to settle in some are ok straight away and anything inbetween

It's not just an Ole thing, but pretty much ALL of our signings since SAF have started well or even really well, then have tailed off visibly before being labelled deadwood. Both AWB and Maguire started a lot better than they're looking now, and I remember during the first few games of the season some posters were making joke comments like "Give them time to bed in, they'll go to shit soon". Even Dan James isn't as effective as he was in his first few games, but that one I put down more to defenders figuring him out a little bit.

There seems to be an extreme rot on the training ground at our club whereby players are being drilled to perform below their capabilities. That transcends managers it seems, too. I don't know what it could be. The pressure? I honestly don't know.

 

[Bobcat]

No klopp said he would have come but his missus didnt fancy it

But they decided to move to fecking Liverpool? Manchester is no Paris or Barcelona, but Liverpool sure as feck is not either

 

[mitchmouse]

have to say,I am moving closer to saying he should go. which makes me sad... and feel dirty

 

[BigRon1985]

have to say,I am moving closer to saying he should go. which makes me sad... a

nd feel dirty

I’ve felt dirty a long time mate especially when I’d happily admit to taking Wenger all day long as a replacement........

 

[Amadaeus]

Spurs and Arsenal seem to have more ambition than United of late. Spurs even sacked their best manager ever, yet United is looking to keep one of our worst.

 

[Class of 63]

Spurs and Arsenal seem to have more ambition than United of late. Spurs even sacked their best manager ever, yet United is looking to keep one of our worst.

Was double-winner Bill Nicholson a close second?

 

[UnofficialDevil]

I dont get this maguire bollocks. Most people were happy we got him when we did. Same as Wan. Now they ain't performing like they did at their previous clubs, which they wont anyway until they get used to their teammates and style of play. Remember Vidic and Evra and everyone was saying Fergie had dropped one as they wasnt good enough in the first season. Some players need a season to settle in some are ok straight away and anything inbetween

Evra and Vidic needed to adapt to our league. Evra said in interviews that he couldnt get used to playing games so early and having to eat two plates of pasta for breakfast. Maquire and Wan dont need adapting to this league.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

We need to sack him before we miss out on Poch.

 

[croadyman]

I definitely see Pochettino going elsewhere if we don't secure at least him for the summer. Mind you I cannot trust our board to put a caretaker in temporary charge after the way Ole got appointed. They will end up appointed the caretaker permanently instead.

 

[Majima]

It's not just an Ole thing, but pretty much ALL of our signings since SAF have started well or even really well, then have tailed off visibly before being labelled deadwood. Both AWB and Maguire started a lot better than they're looking now, and I remember during the first few games of the season some posters were making joke comments like "Give them time to bed in, they'll go to shit soon". Even Dan James isn't as effective as he was in his first few games, but that one I put down more to defenders figuring him out a little bit.

There seems to be an extreme rot on the training ground at our club whereby players are being drilled to perform below their capabilities. That transcends managers it seems, too. I don't know what it could be. The pressure? I honestly don't know.

The club is drowning under the pressure and expectations, that being a giant of the game rightly comes with.

We're mid-table, having mid-table performances right now. No one can deny, that we don't deserve to be there. We're truly hopeless. The ones most aware of that fact will be the players themselves.

They will know how bad the team is, how they are getting hammered every week on social media. They live in this environment for a few months and is it any wonder they are then shot to bits?

They look to the bench who can't help them, because they are also drowning under the pressure & expectations.

Who has come here and performed to a consistent standard ever since? From di Maria, Herrera, to Lukaku, I can't think of one in the last 6 years. Everyone of them have fell through the floor eventually. Which is a horrendous record.

Get them away from the club and they've never looked better! I mean look at Smalling & Lukaku this season, they're on top of the world again. di Maria & Herrera made great decisions for themselves career wise in hindsight. In comparison it has to be said, our players look miserable.

 

[momo83]

I dont get this maguire bollocks. Most people were happy we got him when we did. Same as Wan. Now they ain't performing like they did at their previous clubs, which they wont anyway until they get used to their teammates and style of play. Remember Vidic and Evra and everyone was saying Fergie had dropped one as they wasnt good enough in the first season. Some players need a season to settle in some are ok straight away and anything inbetween

1) Evra and Vidic came from abroad.
2) If the adaption period was true for Maguire and AWB then why is it that both Maguire and AWB were much better at the start of the season?

Like I said month or so ago when both were still in great form. Their continued good form and improvement depends on the manager and his coaching ability so don’t be surprised if they don’t develop further and even regress.

An example of a player who moved from the Premier League to another one and needed time to settle is VVD.. he didn’t start very good then decline then became great. He struggled at first, then regained his level and then surpassed it beyond all expectations. Can anyone honestly see any player surpassing expectations under Ole?

James was a good signing and has shocked people, but do people honestly think that under Ole his raw energetic talent will get nurtured into a world class machine like Klopp or Pep do with players?

 

[Sky1981]

It's not just an Ole thing, but pretty much ALL of our signings since SAF have started well or even really well, then have tailed off visibly before being labelled deadwood. Both AWB and Maguire started a lot better than they're looking now, and I remember during the first few games of the season some posters were making joke comments like "Give them time to bed in, they'll go to shit soon". Even Dan James isn't as effective as he was in his first few games, but that one I put down more to defenders figuring him out a little bit.

There seems to be an extreme rot on the training ground at our club whereby players are being drilled to perform below their capabilities. That transcends managers it seems, too. I don't know what it could be. The pressure? I honestly don't know.

My theory is the coaches

Managers ussually outlines the big picture and coaches drills the details and maintains the nitbits.

Our coaches are extremely shits post Fergie

Lumpsden?
LVG only brought 1 video guy and 1 GK
Jose only brought Faria with him
Ole ... well...

So... I think it's the coaches that's the sleeping problems

 

[Bobcat]

My theory is the coaches

Managers ussually outlines the big picture and coaches drills the details and maintains the nitbits.

Our coaches are extremely shits post Fergie

Lumpsden?
LVG only brought 1 video guy and 1 GK
Jose only brought Faria with him
Ole ... well...

So... I think it's the coaches that's the sleeping problems

We looked a lot worse under Jose after Rui Faria left so i think you got a point. Ferguson kept Phelan around for a long time though so i think he knows what hes doing. Carrick and McKenna i dont know

Edit: I've also heard Ole is very little involved in the actual coaching side of things. At Molde for example he was mostly observing in the background and often he was not even there

 

[always_hoping]

We need to sack him before we miss out on Poch.

Other options out there if and when the United management position becomes available, just look at all the managers linked to the Arsenal gig, all arguably better. Poch probably needs a full year off but jumping into the next job, he looked drained after the awful year of league results with a talented squad of Spurs players. The stress he was under even showed when leading them to the CL final, like who cries for reaching a cup final?

 

[Un4givableB]

We need to sack him before we miss out on Poch.

I think we need to be sounding out Pochettino now, about taking over next season, Pochettino would be the smoothest fit but there's no shortage of managers that would be an upgrade on OGS.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

The club is drowning under the pressure and expectations, that being a giant of the game rightly comes with.

We're mid-table, having mid-table performances right now. No one can deny, that we don't deserve to be there. We're truly hopeless. The ones most aware of that fact will be the players themselves.

They will know how bad the team is, how they are getting hammered every week on social media. They live in this environment for a few months and is it any wonder they are then shot to bits?

They look to the bench who can't help them, because they are also drowning under the pressure & expectations.

Who has come here and performed to a consistent standard ever since? From di Maria, Herrera, to Lukaku, I can't think of one in the last 6 years. Everyone of them have fell through the floor eventually. Which is a horrendous record.

Get them away from the club and they've never looked better! I mean look at Smalling & Lukaku this season, they're on top of the world again. di Maria & Herrera made great decisions for themselves career wise in hindsight. In comparison it has to be said, our players look miserable.

I don't disagree but we aren't the only football club with passionate, unhappy fans. PSG fans will moan and rip the players to shreds on social media. Same goes for Roma fans, Inter Milan fans. These playrs are still performing better away from the club while under the same pressure from their new fanbase. Something is very wrong at United, I have no idea what but the fact that it's been wrong since 2013 and seems to be getting worse is very scary as a fan.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

My theory is the coaches

Managers ussually outlines the big picture and coaches drills the details and maintains the nitbits.

Our coaches are extremely shits post Fergie

Lumpsden?
LVG only brought 1 video guy and 1 GK
Jose only brought Faria with him
Ole ... well...

So... I think it's the coaches that's the sleeping problems

Probably yeah. When Ole goes we need to get rid of ALL of the backroom staff. Carrick, McKenna, Phelan all need to go - we need a complete and utter overhaul in the coaching setup and we dont need any of the 'old guard' hanging around anymore.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

I dont get this maguire bollocks. Most people were happy we got him when we did. Same as Wan. Now they ain't performing like they did at their previous clubs, which they wont anyway until they get used to their teammates and style of play. Remember Vidic and Evra and everyone was saying Fergie had dropped one as they wasnt good enough in the first season. Some players need a season to settle in some are ok straight away and anything inbetween

Give them a but if time and I think they will be back to performing like they did at their previous clubs. Some people are very quick to big players up and just as quick to knock them down if they go through a bit of a rough patch or not consistent all the time. They need a but of patience and I feel they will be fine.

 

[Oldyella]

have to say,I am moving closer to saying he should go. which makes me sad... and feel dirty

Nothing wrong with that. He's been given his shot but so far, just looks out of his depth sadly. Just dont turn into one of these idiots who call him all sort of names..

 

[Sky1981]

Give them a but if time and I think they will be back to performing like they did at their previous clubs. Some people are very quick to big players up and just as quick to knock them down if they go through a bit of a rough patch or not consistent all the time. They need a but of patience and I feel they will be fine.

Thing is for 50 and 80 million epl proven you expect this rought patch to be minimum.

Some benefits of doubt can be given if they're overseas player trying to play in a new environment. Wan and maguire are english, they've been playing in english league for years.

For 80m you'd expect a defender you can bank of 35 games out of 38. Like vvd, rio, vidic, terry, campbell, irwin, and many other. They very seldom have an off days.

We're too lenient towards our players and seems to be ridiculous in giving them excuses after excuses.

 

[BlueHaze]

Unless things get completely out of control keep him til the end of the season and then bring in a re-energized Poch.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

My theory is the coaches

Managers ussually outlines the big picture and coaches drills the details and maintains the nitbits.

Our coaches are extremely shits post Fergie

Lumpsden?
LVG only brought 1 video guy and 1 GK
Jose only brought Faria with him
Ole ... well...

So... I think it's the coaches that's the sleeping problems

Van Gaal brought in Stuivenberg who was assistant along with Giggs, Frans Hoek, the goal keeping coach and and Max Reckers a performance analyst. He was also more hands on than Fergie or Mourinho, often conducting technical sessions himself.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

Thing is for 50 and 80 million epl proven you expect this rought patch to be minimum.

Some benefits of doubt can be given if they're overseas player trying to play in a new environment. Wan and maguire are english, they've been playing in english league for years.

For 80m you'd expect a defender you can bank of 35 games out of 38. Like vvd, rio, vidic, terry, campbell, irwin, and many other. They very seldom have an off days.

We're too lenient towards our players and seems to be ridiculous in giving them excuses after excuses.

I agree that if you pay that much for players that if they go through a rough patch it should be minimum. I would love to have a player like as consistent as" Mr. Reliable" Dennis Irwin who Sir Alex described as an 8/10 player.

 

[FootyGirl88]

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[wolvored]

It's not just an Ole thing, but pretty much ALL of our signings since SAF have started well or even really well, then have tailed off visibly before being labelled deadwood. Both AWB and Maguire started a lot better than they're looking now, and I remember during the first few games of the season some posters were making joke comments like "Give them time to bed in, they'll go to shit soon". Even Dan James isn't as effective as he was in his first few games, but that one I put down more to defenders figuring him out a little bit.

There seems to be an extreme rot on the training ground at our club whereby players are being drilled to perform below their capabilities. That transcends managers it seems, too. I don't know what it could be. The pressure? I honestly don't know.

There is definitely a problem with the training and/or tactics. Im on about when they come everyone was all over the signings. If there is a tail off its not specifically the player, its what hes being trained or not trained to do.

 

[wolvored]

Evra and Vidic needed to adapt to our league. Evra said in interviews that he couldnt get used to playing games so early and having to eat two plates of pasta for breakfast. Maquire and Wan dont need adapting to this league.

I just answered that it must be the training/tactics or lack of for the falloff as all 3 signings were very good at first.

 

[Garethw]

1) Evra and Vidic came from abroad.
2) If the adaption period was true for Maguire and AWB then why is it that both Maguire and AWB were much better at the start of the season?

Like I said month or so ago when both were still in great form. Their continued good form and improvement depends on the manager and his coaching ability so don’t be surprised if they don’t develop further and even regress.

An example of a player who moved from the Premier League to another one and needed time to settle is VVD.. he didn’t start very good then decline then became great. He struggled at first, then regained his level and then surpassed it beyond all expectations. Can anyone honestly see any player surpassing expectations under Ole?

James was a good signing and has shocked people, but do people honestly think that under Ole his raw energetic talent will get nurtured into a world class machine like Klopp or Pep do with players?

Funny that both Maguire and Wan Bissaka have looked worse the more time they’ve spent being coached by Ole and his team. Same goes for most of our squad in fact.

 

[Sky1981]

Van Gaal brought in Stuivenberg who was assistant along with Giggs, Frans Hoek, the goal keeping coach and and Max Reckers a performance analyst. He was also more hands on than Fergie or Mourinho, often conducting technical sessions himself.

1 assman and 1 coach is not enough for a big club like united. It really isn't. The devil's in the details.

Our drop in form mirrors drops in coach qualities

 

[Random Task]

Funny that both Maguire and Wan Bissaka have looked worse the more time they’ve spent being coached by Ole and his team. Same goes for most of our squad.

Mctominay, Fred, Tuanzebe, Rashford, Williams and Greenwood have shown varying degrees of improvement this season. Maguire, AWB, and James have been more consistent than most, in my opinion.