Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?

  • Sack Ole & appoint new coach ASAP

  • Keep Ole & back him to finish rebuild


Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
7,361
Yeah, I forgot. Sorry. Every decent manager but Ole transforms average players to world beaters. None of them even need a transfer budget, as they just create magical talent out of thin air.
That is the expectation here. He may not be a great coach but some of the things people come out with is ridculuos.

I am Ole out but I will still defend him when fans make baseless arguments just to have a pop at him. We need to show the manager some respect.

Anything Ole does is wrong. Its actually a joke. He gets things wrong, like most managers.
 

Zhagzi

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 20, 2019
Messages
56
Who has a better team. Us or Leipzig?

Surely you think us no? So if Leipzig where expected to go through over us that is because they have a much better manager.

Luckily this thread is discussing that very topic.
You imply we have the better team, but based on what? I can't see that their players are worse than ours. I can't see any of our players playing consistenly enough at any level to determine their ACTUAL level.
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
36,448
Location
Egypt
Didn't RedCafe spend years telling everyone that "the buck stops with the manager"? Why did this suddenly change now with Ole in charge?
 

Zen86

Full Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
10,098
Location
Sunny Manc
Looking at the media as well as this board, I think realistically Solskjær is going to have to deliver very, very strong results to overcome doubters.

There is now a smothering narrative about amateurishness and naivety from which people won't easily step back. Just look at the coverage in The Guardian for example, with Barney Ronay's arrogant rubbish leading the way. That's going to matter no matter how unreasonable and badly founded it is.

It's like everyone held their breath for a little bit and reminded themselves that patience was needed, and now they've run out of breath and have forgotten all about that and suddenly United has to not only contend for and win titles, they have to do so by obliterating the opposition consistently and in an entertaining fashion. If they don't, Solskjær is obviously an idiot.

It's enough to make you despair of mankind when you look, for instance, at what is written about Chelsea compared to what is written about United. United is spoken about as if they have performed way below expectation, and are standing at the foot of the precipice. Sky Sports wrote after the City game that the result at least "arrested the slide". "Slide"? They had four straight PL victories ahead of that game. What "slide" would that be?

Chelsea on the other hand is being talked about in glowing terms as a title contender. Fixed their defensive issues, made great signings - and above all, being guided towards dominance by an exciting, promising English manager whose previous experience is, er, Derby County. Whereas United is being guided by some nonentity who, apart from a previous stint in the PL, has only worked in some yobbo league on the outskirts of Europe.

How is that, though? They finished behind United last season. So far this season, they have yet to string together more than three consecutive wins in the PL, compared to United's four. Their average points taken is 1.8, same as United. Their record against top teams (Liverpool, City, United, Chelsea, Tottenham, Leicester) is 0-2-1, same as United. And unlike United, they lost their last PL game. All this with a better and deeper squad than we have. So what exactly has Frank Lampard achieved that OGS hasn't? How has his team been more consistent, or better? Why is OGS on the brink, while the issue isn't even remotely on the horizon for Lampard?

And another thing. The 0-0 Manchester derby was a shameful and awful performance indicative of grave issues with both teams, while the 0-0 Tottenham-Chelsea game wasn't?

Here's what the BBC wrote about that game:

Tottenham returned to the top of the Premier League despite being held by Chelsea in a highly-competitive yet goalless London stalemate.

The eagerly-anticipated fixture between two teams in excellent form failed to produce a goal as both sides cancelled each other out at Stamford Bridge.


And this is what the BBC wrote about the Manchester derby, under the heading "Absence of fans felt in soulless, dismal Manchester derby":

Any fans who wished they could be here might have been swiftly put off by the over-cautious, cat-and-mouse approach from Manchester United manager Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and Manchester City counterpart Pep Guardiola.

This was a game that started, finished and nothing much happened in between. Local honour was satisfied in a very unsatisfactory match.


There were 20 shots (4 on goal) in the Manchester derby. There were 18 shots (4 on goal) in the London derby. Obviously "Highly competetive yet goalless stalemate....as both teams cancelled each other out" is as applicable to one game as to the other. So is "over-cautious, cat and mouse approach", and "This was a game that started, finished and nothing much happened in between. Local honour was satisfied in a very unsatisfactory match."

Watching football being discussed and analysed is at times like watching some weird collective entity responding to people's emotions rather than to reality. As if we're in a Terry Pratchett novel. And the journos are as bad as anybody.
As with most things these days, popular opinion is defined by whatever “the narrative” is. It’s very rarely based on facts or sense.
 

Skåre Willoch

Full Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
3,256
That is the expectation here. He may not be a great coach but some of the things people come out with is ridculuos.

I am Ole out but I will still defend him when fans make baseless arguments just to have a pop at him. We need to show the manager some respect.

Anything Ole does is wrong. Its actually a joke. He gets things wrong, like most managers.
Being Ole out is both fair and understandable. And it's not what I'm against at all. It shows decency to actually speak up about this issue, while still being Ole out. Kudos to you, buddy.
It is what you say, the ridiculousness and total disrespect, slander and witch hunt tendencies that grinds my gears.
I've said it before, there are literally hundreds of things you can say negative about his tenure (both before and now) that are fair and correct. I don't see the point in becoming Donald Trump about it, as it only makes the fan base more divided, and creates a toxic environment in here. And it's not only this thread, it's every thread about Ole, about Manchester United, about our games, about the opposition, about transfers.
Create fake narratives, call him names, discredit every positive, enhance every negative, fachts and straw men all over the place.

People have incredibly short memory. After sitting through Moyes, LVG and Mourinho, I'd expect people to realize it's not as easy as "anyone competent, even Pardew" could take us to where we are right now.

But according to some I guess I'm just oblivious, romantic and clueless, because I have "å" in my username, and is actually (doubtful, but still) Ole in.
 

Giggsy13

Full Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2016
Messages
971
Location
Toronto
The amount of twisting, turning, bending and mental gymnastics done by the Ole outers is turning this place into cirque de cafe.

Last page- Bruno isn’t world class...fecking hell hahahaha :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
7,361
Being Ole out is both fair and understandable. And it's not what I'm against at all. It shows decency to actually speak up about this issue, while still being Ole out. Kudos to you, buddy.
It is what you say, the ridiculousness and total disrespect, slander and witch hunt tendencies that grinds my gears.
I've said it before, there are literally hundreds of things you can say negative about his tenure (both before and now) that are fair and correct. I don't see the point in becoming Donald Trump about it, as it only makes the fan base more divided, and creates a toxic environment in here. And it's not only this thread, it's every thread about Ole, about Manchester United, about our games, about the opposition, about transfers.
Create fake narratives, call him names, discredit every positive, enhance every negative, fachts and straw men all over the place.

People have incredibly short memory. After sitting through Moyes, LVG and Mourinho, I'd expect people to realize it's not as easy as "anyone competent, even Pardew" could take us to where we are right now.

But according to some I guess I'm just oblivious, romantic and clueless, because I have "å" in my username, and is actually (doubtful, but still) Ole in.
This is it. You can be Ole out or Ole in, there are arguments to both.

These are those Paul Ince comments "anyone can do that job" from fans because he doesn't come out and throw players under the bus.

People want Poch but he has not achieved anything more than Ole has. I am not against Poch but to say he is our saviour seems a bit far fetched to me.

It is clear to see the players are playing for the manager, whether we like it or not, it is the fans who are trying to create this divide.

People criticise him for drawing 0-0 with Man City yet they say he is no where near the level Pep is, well isnt that a good point at home then?

But its "City didnt play well" well whos fault is that then? The manager? So pep?

Again evidence that the elite of the elite managers can get things wrong?

An elite manager is playing 2 DM's yet when we play 2 DM's there is uproar about it. If we played 1 DM and lost 2/3-0 there is no coaching in this team?

It has come to a point unless Ole wins games 4-0 with 20 shots on goal, 80% possession, 0 shots against, there will be people questioning every decision.

If you can criticise a manager for being naive like we were against Leipzig, credit should be given when he does get it right. All I am saying is same energy should apply.
 

Hellboy

Full Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2006
Messages
17,494
Location
Heaven on earth
This is it. You can be Ole out or Ole in, there are arguments to both.

These are those Paul Ince comments "anyone can do that job" from fans because he doesn't come out and throw players under the bus.

People want Poch but he has not achieved anything more than Ole has. I am not against Poch but to say he is our saviour seems a bit far fetched to me.

It is clear to see the players are playing for the manager, whether we like it or not, it is the fans who are trying to create this divide.

People criticise him for drawing 0-0 with Man City yet they say he is no where near the level Pep is, well isnt that a good point at home then?

But its "City didnt play well" well whos fault is that then? The manager? So pep?

Again evidence that the elite of the elite managers can get things wrong?

An elite manager is playing 2 DM's yet when we play 2 DM's there is uproar about it. If we played 1 DM and lost 2/3-0 there is no coaching in this team?

It has come to a point unless Ole wins games 4-0 with 20 shots on goal, 80% possession, 0 shots against, there will be people questioning every decision.

If you can criticise a manager for being naive like we were against Leipzig, credit should be given when he does get it right. All I am saying is same energy should apply.
You can't be serious :lol:
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
7,361
You can't be serious :lol:
What has he achieved? got to a CL final? finished 2nd?

No doubt he is a good coach but some people on here overestimate how good he is.

Horrible record against the top 6.

Horrible record in cup competitions.
 

Mainoldo

Full Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Messages
17,536
1. Who has created most chances in the PL? Who has most goal involvements since Jan?

2. Name me a manager that has won stuff without buying players?
Yes that’s my argument. Mangers don’t require money? That was my main point :wenger:

Answer my main point not the stupid take you want to extract from it.

Every manager requires money but they are judged on how they use their tools. Ole uses them poorly.
 

Mainoldo

Full Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Messages
17,536
The amount of twisting, turning, bending and mental gymnastics done by the Ole outers is turning this place into cirque de cafe.

Last page- Bruno isn’t world class...fecking hell hahahaha :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Bruno Fernandez is not world class. I don’t know why it’s even a debate.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
7,361
Yes that’s my argument. Mangers don’t require money? That was my main point :wenger:

Answer my main point not the stupid take you want to extract from it.

Every manager requires money but they are judged on how they use their tools. Ole uses them poorly.
Okay, Ole uses them poorly.

Jose got the same amount of money, he used it poorly too.

LVG used money poorly too?

Looks like there is a theme... managers use money at United poorly... guess that is down to the manager more than the hierarchy right?
 

90 + 5min

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2019
Messages
1,622
Why are you bashing such a stupid strawman drum over and over?
Because that is what we have been told.

Agree.
Agree.

We are taking steps forwards with Ole?
If you're talking about last season then sure, that's acceptable.

Is it still steps forwards now?
Looks more like we're playing around alternately moving up 1 step and down another 1 step, stuck within 3 steps.
Never progress anymore and so far never stoop down much.

Ole is a safe choice, a safety blanket no doubt.
Is that enough? We've seen from other top clubs content fully satisfied at remaining at eg. top 4, then over time they gradually fall and fall down.

Accepting more and more low standards just like the manager?
He literally enjoy and accept the recent Derby draw game for feck sake.

I do get the fear of changing manager may make it worse. It could also be the opposite - more successes. Nothing is a guarantee as you know. If we plan properly, then we don't need to fear in making good calculated changes. Alas, ours are not really reliable. One thing for sure, making changes is the common step to try and be better. If the new change is bad, then simply make another changes. Simple concept. Plenty of other top clubs that run well i.e. have good plannings constantly change managers and get both successes and failures along. Every club goes through this anyway - up and down. The best clubs dare to adapt and make good calculated risks. Ours unfortunately don't and looking likely to remain with the incompetency at the tops. The least they can do is try new coaches no?
Of course you look at previous season to check if we are making progress.

People talking about lowering standards under Solskjaer? Standards from when? 1970s? Fergie years? Moyes months? What are our standards and who has set them?

Is it a guarantee that Sancho is better option than James/Greenwood?
Is it a guarantee that Upamecano is better option than Lindelof/Maguire/Bailly?
Is it a guarantee that any new player would be better than what we have?

Problem is that we are not taking steps forward. We are going back. And we need a change soon as possible. We have excellent squad with which good manager can and would do much better than failed Cardiff manager is doing.
So there is no guarantee that we would be better with another manager and you want to change current manager that is 2 p (if we win game in hand) from 1st place. I think it is more risk than what we could gain.

You say that we have excellent squad? Do you think we should be fighting for PL this year being 30p behind top duo last year? And if so, 2(?)p behind last year champions must count as a good start. And definitly progress.
 

Mainoldo

Full Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Messages
17,536
Okay, Ole uses them poorly.

Jose got the same amount of money, he used it poorly too.

LVG used money poorly too?

Looks like there is a theme... managers use money at United poorly... guess that is down to the manager more than the hierarchy right?
So SAF is the only manager ever in the to grace this earth that can use a Manchester United squad correctly?

Simple question does SAF win this current league with the players currently at United’s disposal?

If the answer is no then yes your totally right.
 

Skåre Willoch

Full Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
3,256
Bruno Fernandez is not world class. I don’t know why it’s even a debate.
I know you're just trolling, but I'm still curious. Who's a world class AM if Bruno Fernandes isn't?
 

Skåre Willoch

Full Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
3,256
So SAF is the only manager ever in the to grace this earth that can use a Manchester United squad correctly?

Simple question does SAF win this current league with the players currently at United’s disposal?

If the answer is no then yes your totally right.
The question is simple. The answer is anything but simple.
 

anant

Full Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
6,726
Bruno Fernandez is not world class. I don’t know why it’s even a debate.
Out of interest, how highly do you rate the squad and Starting XI? is it below City and Pool, below Chelsea, below Spurs?

And another question, how highly did you rate our starting XI and squad before the Jan'20 window?
 

Mainoldo

Full Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Messages
17,536
Genuine question. Not even being funny.. do people in here actual believe Bruno is world class?

Don’t give me his stats just talking about him the player.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

Full Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2019
Messages
3,836
Genuine question. Not even being funny.. do people in here actual believe Bruno is world class?

Don’t give me his stats just talking about him the player.
I believe you need more than half a season at top level to be considered world class. But he's very much on his way there
 

Mainoldo

Full Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Messages
17,536
Out of interest, how highly do you rate the squad and Starting XI? is it below City and Pool, below Chelsea, below Spurs?

And another question, how highly did you rate our starting XI and squad before the Jan'20 window?
Does this answer why I don’t think Bruno is world class?

Liverpool have the best starting 11. I’d struggle to name you more than 3 world class players if that.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
7,361
So SAF is the only manager ever in the to grace this earth that can use a Manchester United squad correctly?

Simple question does SAF win this current league with the players currently at United’s disposal?

If the answer is no then yes your totally right.
Probably not.

SAF hasn't managed since 2013, football has changed since then. We saw SAF struggle against high press teams in his later years. A few games pop to mind, Pep's Barca and Athletico Bilbao.

Football personalities have changed, alot more social media than there was in SAF's era.

He may win the league he may not, one thing we do know for sure is SAF was 100% against Pogba and his agent so there will be a falling out there anyway.
 

Giggsy13

Full Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2016
Messages
971
Location
Toronto
Bruno is world class and has been playing at a high level for several years. His years at sporting will be overlooked because of the quality of the league but his production from the midfield position has been insane. I guarantee that many of the big clubs in Europe are regretting that they didn't move for him.
 

Andycoleno9

Full Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
15,301
Location
Croatia
So there is no guarantee that we would be better with another manager and you want to change current manager that is 2 p (if we win game in hand) from 1st place. I think it is more risk than what we could gain.

You say that we have excellent squad? Do you think we should be fighting for PL this year being 30p behind top duo last year? And if so, 2(?)p behind last year champions must count as a good start. And definitly progress.
I used that examples to say that you don't have guarantees in football for anything. So that excuse is not valid for me. You replace what you think that it is not good and try to pick good replacement. Will you do that right, it is a gamble of course.
Ole is not good. So he needs to be replaced no matter what. Will we hire good manager that is another topic.

And yes, i am very very happy with our squad and that is why i want him gone. This squad is loaded with good players and need to play much better than it is playing right now. And playing defensive against teams like Arsenal and Leipzig was last straw for me.
And to be clear; i don't demand title. But title challenge is a must and better manager would give us that. Solskjaer will not.
 

Abhinav

Full Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2017
Messages
400
Have to be honest, don’t quite like the sound bites after the City game. Seems like we are happy that we didn’t get outplayed. That is not the reaction that a Manchester United manager should ever have irrespective of where we are in the table. We should always demand the absolute best and be disappointed every time we drop points. That is the only way we progress to the next level. Coaches, players have to demand perfection from each other.

Its easy to forget that at Man united, Top 4 is not good enough. It can be a stepping milestone like it was last year but it cannot be an end in itself. This season should be about how we progress to become a title challenger. If we are again aiming for Top 4 then we are losing sight of what Man United represents.
 

Chesterlestreet

Man of the crowd
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Messages
16,051
Bruno isn’t world class...
He's not "world class" if you consider him as a player brought in by Ole (as in - Ole wanted him and believed he would improve us).

But he is "world class" (or close, at least) if you consider him as a random player who just happens to be in the team, and who keeps bailing Ole out by creating and scoring goals.

Simple enough - yeah?
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
36,448
Location
Egypt
It's the double standards of giving Ole full credit for Bruno signing then continuously slaughtering Woodward for any other terrible business we do that's the problem, actually. By logic Woodward should also be getting credit for landing on Bruno but no, give full praise for this deal for Ole then slaughter Woodward for not bringing Sancho.
 

UnofficialDevil

Anti Scottish
Joined
Aug 5, 2006
Messages
15,106
Location
I'm not anti Scottish, I just wanted Moyes out.
Genuine question. Not even being funny.. do people in here actual believe Bruno is world class?

Don’t give me his stats just talking about him the player.
I dont think so. You don't suddenly become world-class at 26. I'd never heard of him until last summer. He's been fantastic for 8 months for us so far, still has a lot to do to become world class.
 

UnofficialDevil

Anti Scottish
Joined
Aug 5, 2006
Messages
15,106
Location
I'm not anti Scottish, I just wanted Moyes out.
It's the double standards of giving Ole full credit for Bruno signing then continuously slaughtering Woodward for any other terrible business we does that's the problem, actually. By logic Woodward should also be getting credit for landing on Bruno but no, give full praise for this deal for Ole then slaughter Woodward for not bringing Sancho.
So true. If anything Bruno was a Woodward signing because we had Pogba and MCT injured last December. Which is why he wasnt bought the summer before.
 

anant

Full Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
6,726
Does this answer why I don’t think Bruno is world class?

Liverpool have the best starting 11. I’d struggle to name you more than 3 world class players if that.
It doesn't but I really want to know how highly do you rate the squad.

And just 3 WC players in Pool?

Allison is among the top 5 GKs in the world, some will have him in top 3. VVD is the best defender, Robertson and TAA are among the top 3 players in their positions. Salah, Mane are definitely WC.
 

Bobcat

Full Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
5,291
Location
Behind the curtains, leering at the neighbors
So another 300 mill at least will see the squad sorted then we judge him on the most ever spent by one manager in 3 years?
No 300 million would be unreasonable, but hes still 160 million or so behind Jose in net spend.

If Martial gets his act together he can play CF. If not its an absoloute must have. In order of importance: DM (maybe CF), RW, CB
 

Gator Nate

Full Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Messages
1,312
Location
Orlando, FL
I'm sure it's been mentioned, but I'm not reading through the last 200 pages that I missed....

Over the last five matches, we're the most in-form team in the league with four wins and a draw for 13 points, West Ham have four wins and a loss for 12, and Tottenham three wins and two draws for 11.
 

Chesterlestreet

Man of the crowd
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Messages
16,051
It's the double standards of giving Ole full credit for Bruno signing then continuously slaughtering Woodward for any other terrible business we do that's the problem, actually. By logic Woodward should also be getting credit for landing on Bruno but no, give full praise for this deal for Ole then slaughter Woodward for not bringing Sancho.
It's not really a double standard, though - based on what we know (or think we know, at least) about United's infamous "structure".

The manager at United is ultimately responsible for recruitment (we don't have a director of football). So, we give him credit for good signings and the opposite for bad ones. As far as we know, there is no other figure at United beyond the manager who is ultimately responsible for identifying targets and sanctioning them from a football perspective.

Woodward sanctions all deals from a money perspective - and he is also ultimately responsible for negotiations (doesn't mean he negotiates the deals himself - but the people who do, do so on his watch).

So, yeah - in theory you could say well done to Ole for identifying Sancho as a target for United - and feck you to Ed for failing to sign him. However - a more or less rational/reasonable person wouldn't do that without being privy to details: firstly, it hardly takes a genius to target Sancho - and secondly there could be multiple very good reasons for why that particular move/deal simply wasn't feasible this time around.

Bottom line, though - there is no double standard. United bought Bruno. Who ultimately sanctioned that decision on the football side? Well, has to be Ole - who else? Who failed to land a deal for Sancho (we assume he was wanted by Ole)? Well, has to be Ed - who else?
 

RedTiger

Full Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2013
Messages
18,534
Location
Beside the sea-side, Beside the sea.
I'm sure it's been mentioned, but I'm not reading through the last 200 pages that I missed....

Over the last five matches, we're the most in-form team in the league with four wins and a draw for 13 points, West Ham have four wins and a loss for 12, and Tottenham three wins and two draws for 11.
No-one seems to give a shit about stats at the moment, it's more about "feels".
 
Status
Not open for further replies.