Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

City have Dias, Laporte, Aké and Stones. Two of them are great starters, the other two are great squad options.

They don’t look great starters. Overrated as per, whilst our options are underrated.

And as I say, you can’t have it both ways, either our options are good (which I think), like Chelsea, Spurs, or we’ve done a miserable job spending 150m on our defence.

Which is it?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Look at the excuses he listed to my reply. Unbelievable delusion

It’s bizarre because the top teams have fallen away so badly the last few weeks that even without playing our position is getting stronger. If they believe in the manager as much as they appear then they should be fully confident that will be in a title battle in January even if it doesn’t hold out. So why are some people still in here making excuses? Doesn’t really make any sense. Just wait till we beat Sheffield United and wait for a good run through December to prove the doubters were idiots.

 

[b82REZ]

It’s bizarre because the top teams have fallen away so badly the last few weeks that even without playing our position is getting stronger. If they believe in the manager as much as they appear then they should be fully confident that will be in a title battle in January even if it doesn’t hold out. So why are some people still in here making excuses? Doesn’t really make any sense. Just wait till we beat Sheffield United and wait for a good run through December to prove the doubters were idiots.

It's almost as if they have doubts but don't want to admit it.

We keep getting told we're second or third if we win our game in hand, but those posts are often caveated with multiple excuses in case we don't win.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

They don’t look great starters. Overrated as per, whilst our options are underrated.

And as I say, you can’t have it both ways, either our options are good (which I think), like Chelsea, Spurs, or we’ve done a miserable job spending 150m on our defence.

Which is it?

City's problems are scoring goals at the moment, not their defense. Before WBA they had 7 straight clean sheets in all competitions. *Edit: 6 clean sheets in a row.

Maybe Dias and Laporte aren't great, but they're very, very good. As are Aké and Stones as depth options.

I do agree that our defense is good, though. It has its flaws, but with Van Dijk out, so does every defense in the league in my opinion. We can't point at Spurs and Chelsea at least, and say that they have a much better defense than we do.

 

[justsomebloke]

How long does it take to build a title challenging team and what are you basing that from?

Well, do you really think there exists a generalised valid answer to that question? Obviously it varies and depends on many factors. The most fundamental ones being what your starting point is (ie, how many and big the problems needing to be solved are), and how long it takes you to acquire or develop a squad of sufficient quality, which again depends on how much money is spent and the quality of the transfer decisions and how much work there is to be done on that front. I can sense in there that your real question is "Well, how much patience are you asking me to show?". If so, the answer to that is "as much as it takes". Because that's how it is whether we like it or not, and whether Solskjær is sacked or not.

 

[Zen86]

If we somehow won the league this season, I wonder if the usual suspects would come out and say "yeah but our points total would've only been 3rd last season #noprogress"

 

[Skåre Willoch]

If we somehow won the league this season, I wonder if the usual suspects would come out and say "yeah but our points total would've only been 3rd last season #noprogress"

This, and "but, the league was weaker than it's been in years. Winning the league is the very least we should do!"

 

[ash_86]

If we somehow won the league this season, I wonder if the usual suspects would come out and say "yeah but our points total would've only been 3rd last season #noprogress"

What's the doubt, of course they would.

 

[Zen86]

This, and "but, the league was weaker than it's been in years. Winning the league is the very least we should do!"

What's the doubt, of course they would.

@Regulus Arcturus Black will be able to clarify

 

[VP89]

If we somehow won the league this season, I wonder if the usual suspects would come out and say "yeah but our points total would've only been 3rd last season #noprogress"

This, and "but, the league was weaker than it's been in years. Winning the league is the very least we should do!"

What's the doubt, of course they would.

Excellent, hypothetical moans. That's quite the low from you guys.

 

[OrcaFat]

That's were we are lacking. We have one player that performs to a very good level 90% of the time. The rest are really way too inconsistent or can't get to the same level. Is this on coaching or are they that poor no coaching will improve them to reach that level?

Many of those inc

No @OrcaFat, look at it this way.. IF United and Villa win their games in hand, we’ll be 3rd.

Yes it’s pointless but the position now means a title challenge, even a weak one should be the aim. Stupid pointless is pointing to a position mid game.

ok third. With the IFs coming off. But it’s all speculation. I mean, mid game, a second before kick off, a second after kick off, a second before the end, what’s the difference really?

 

[VP89]

Many of those inc

ok third. With the IFs coming off. But it’s all speculation. I mean, mid game, a second before kick off, a second after kick off, a second before the end, what’s the difference really?

If we can win all our December fixtures then it's on like Donkey Kong!

 

[Zen86]

Excellent, hypothetical moans. That's quite the low from you guys.

It's a hypothetical question, actually, reflecting on some of the arguments regularly leveraged in this thread. What's the problem?

 

[b82REZ]

Excellent, hypothetical moans. That's quite the low from you guys.

@Zen86 is the absolute worse poster for hypothetical strawman arguments on the forum. Never adds to the discussion, jusy tries to shoot down opposing views with the same tired what-if-fery

 

[VP89]

It's a hypothetical question, actually, reflecting on some of the arguments regularly leveraged in this thread. What's the problem?

Yeah you asked a hypothetical question, then gave a hypothetical answer so as to moan about what others would complain about.

The problem, is that the poster you tagged (@Regulus Arcturus Black) actually said we should aim for a title challenge given the other teams performances even if its a weak one. So obviously he'd be over the moon with a title win, but you've painted a hypothetical scenario to suggest otherwise.

@Zen86 is the absolute worse poster for hypothetical strawman arguments on the forum. Never adds to the discussion, jusy tries to shoot down opposing views with the same tired what-if-fery

Fair enough

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

This, and "but, the league was weaker than it's been in years. Winning the league is the very least we should do!"

What's the doubt, of course they would.

@Regulus Arcturus Black will be able to clarify

I’m gonna be crystal clear here and as nice as I can to such a moronic claim...

If we win the league this season, I’ll be fecking blown away, and no, Skåre, don’t act like such an utter imbecile, winning the league any season is a brilliant act from any manager, be it Raneiri, Conte, Klopp or Ole.

Ffs, what a fecking ridiculous hypothetical. Seriously, go give all your heads a shake.

The difference with many of us doubters is that we’d understand a league win would show us to be morons, and I want that!! You all have your excuses in already for why Ole can’t actually do anything yet and “anything” would be an extraordinary over-achievement. The majority of you would be fine with 4th and a point more than last season.
You’re dug in your trench, way more than I am, cause I ACTUALLY WANT TO BE WRONG.

 

[VP89]

I’m gonna be crystal clear here and as nice as I can to such a moronic claim...

If we win the league this season, I’ll be fecking blown away, and no, Skåre, don’t act like such an utter imbecile, winning the league any season is a brilliant act from any manager, be it Raneiri, Conte, Klopp or Ole.

Ffs, what a fecking ridiculous hypothetical.

When they are literally making up a scenario in their head to have a chuckle you know they have no legs to stand on mate

 

[b82REZ]

I’m gonna be crystal clear here and as nice as I can to such a moronic claim...

If we win the league this season, I’ll be fecking blown away, and no, Skåre, don’t act like such an utter imbecile, winning the league any season is a brilliant act from any manager, be it Raneiri, Conte, Klopp or Ole.

Ffs, what a fecking ridiculous hypothetical.

You answered wrong. We'd all be gutted obviously

Edit: for some reason I can't add the eye rolling smilie before some moron quotes this to win top red points.

 

[hobbers]

If we somehow won the league this season, I wonder if the usual suspects would come out and say "yeah but our points total would've only been 3rd last season #noprogress"

If we somehow got relegated this season, I wonder if the usual suspects would come out and say "Klopp got a team relegated so this just means Ole is exactly as good as Klopp #rebuildingjob #fourmoreyears"

 

[Zen86]

I’m gonna be crystal clear here and as nice as I can to such a moronic claim...

If we win the league this season, I’ll be fecking blown away, and no, Skåre, don’t act like such an utter imbecile, winning the league any season is a brilliant act from any manager, be is Raneiri, Klopp or Ole.

Ffs, what a fecking ridiculous hypothetical.

Good. The fact you regularly attack last seasons' 3rd place finish with the same argument made me wonder.

If we somehow got relegated this season, I wonder if the usual suspects would come out and say "Klopp got a team relegated so this just means Ole is exactly as good as Klopp #rebuildingjob #fourmoreyears"

Good one, such clever.

 

[OleBoiii]

Today on Big Talk: should Ole be sacked, yes or no?!

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Good. The fact you regularly attack last seasons' 3rd place finish with the same argument made me wonder.

1st and 3rd innit....

1st with any points is an incredible achievement. 3rd is always “meh”, and 3rd with a record low points is double “meh”.

That said, I was delighted with our Jan-End of season form as I’ve said many times, it rightfully gave Ole the chance to have another crack at it.

 

[justsomebloke]

It’s bizarre because the top teams have fallen away so badly the last few weeks that even without playing our position is getting stronger. If they believe in the manager as much as they appear then they should be fully confident that will be in a title battle in January even if it doesn’t hold out. So why are some people still in here making excuses? Doesn’t really make any sense. Just wait till we beat Sheffield United and wait for a good run through December to prove the doubters were idiots.

I agree with you that if the opportunity is there as a result of how other teams do, then of course we should try to seize it. It's a mouth-watering prospect, and it would be fantastic if they manage that. I'm just not going to get so carried away by that that I forget the primary importance of continuing to build a team that can compete regardless of how other teams are doing, or that this is the basic success criterion for this season (and next summer's transfer window).

 

[hobbers]

Ok, but then why? It doesn't help hiring a long-term manager if what he's hired to deliver is more dramatically good short-term results than OGS. And if you're going to give the new manager the same amount of patience as you're prepared to give OGS to build a team, why fire OGS because of short-term results?

It's a damn shame Liverpool didn't employ this thinking before they sacked Rodgers and hired Klopp.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

If we somehow won the league this season, I wonder if the usual suspects would come out and say "yeah but our points total would've only been 3rd last season #noprogress"

This, and "but, the league was weaker than it's been in years. Winning the league is the very least we should do!"

What's the doubt, of course they would.

If someone I so thoroughly despise takes us to the title I would just set my full member on fire.

 

[Zen86]

1st and 3rd innit....

1st with any points is an incredible achievement. 3rd is always “meh”, and 3rd with a record low points is double “meh”.

That said, I was delighted with our Jan-End of season form as I’ve said many times, it rightfully gave Ole the chance to have another crack at it.

3rd is 3rd, 1st is 1st. The league is relative.

People can cry strawman all they want here, but I would genuinely not be surprised to see it being thrown around this thread at the first sign of trouble next season. Such is the amount of bitterness in this thread. Glad to know we're all on the same page.

 

[justsomebloke]

It's a damn shame Liverpool didn't employ this thinking before they sacked Rodgers and hired Klopp.

On the contrary, they employed precisely this thinking. Rodgers was sacked because they thought he'd taken the team as far as he could, and Klopp was hired to build a contender, and given the resources, backing and time to do so. Other than raising them from 10th to 8th after taking over in the middle of the season, he didn't improve Liverpool's results in the short term.

 

[troylocker]

This thread:

Ole in'ers : We want apples, but while we want that, maybe it's more realistic to expect plums this year. Not saying we can't possibly get apples, not saying we should celebrate plums, but we are not first in the apples line and that means plums are more realistic.

Ole out'ers: When the hell did we become a club that celebrated plums? Those plumlovers, huh! Should be expecting apples, but just loves plums. It pathetic. Plums are shit and should be considered bananas. We used to get apples all the time, and I don't care if others are in front of us in the apples line, we should be getting those apples right now.

Ole in'ers: Can you agree that Pep and Klopp has a better chance of getting apples this year? We want them too, but, you know, it wouldn't be a disaster to get plums this year if the apples are not up for grabs.

Ole out-ers: Apples is the only thing we should be eating. If Ole can get us apples right now, we should find someone who can.

Some Ole out-er: We should sack Ole, the banana provider, and get this young german dude. He has never even tasted Apples, but word is he can almost garantee us apples here in notime.

Some other Ole-Out'er: Nono! The right man to get us apples is this Argentinian fellow, who has made plums out of bananas, and then turned the plums back to bananas. I know he has never tasted apples either, but man....the plums he made..... Should be getting us apples in notime.

Ole in'ers: It takes time to make apples. It is not made over night.

Ole out'ers: The PE-teacher was lucky to turn us from bananas to plums. If he can't make us apples this year he never will.

Other Ole out'ers: Still no defined flavour, should be looking more like apples, but looks like a random fruit saved by occasional hints of apple to me.

Ole in'ers: There is a lot of apple in there, but we still need to add more flavour to get rid of the plumtaste and the occasional bananataste. A couple more drops of apple essence should do it.

...rinse - repeat

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

People can cry strawman all they want here, but I would genuinely not be surprised to see it being thrown around this thread at the first sign of trouble next season. Such is the amount of bitterness in this thread. Glad to know we're all on the same page.

You realise you’re worse though?

I mean, a run of 3 wins now and I’m already happy that maybe I’m looking an idiot, and I want that to happen. I want to be in a title race, just like I wanted to be in the CL, and I’d love it to be Ole that does it.

You on the other hand no doubt already have your excuses at the ready for dropped points tonight and/or vs. Leeds, just as you did for us crashing out of the CL to a team managed for a shorter time than Ole and with a tenth of the budget.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I hope you didn’t spend much time on that @troylocker

 

[VP89]

3rd is 3rd, 1st is 1st. The league is relative.

People can cry strawman all they want here, but I would genuinely not be surprised to see it being thrown around this thread at the first sign of trouble next season. Such is the amount of bitterness in this thread. Glad to know we're all on the same page.

Well you literally made a scenario up so we don't need to cry it out. It's already there

 

[troylocker]

I hope you didn’t spend much time on that @troylocker

That bad, huh?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

That bad, huh?

I dun know, stopped reading at apples

 

[justsomebloke]

great stuff!

 

[wolvored]

We've not had a big influx of players, that's the problem.

We have had Maguire James AWB Bruno VDB Telles Cavani Ighalo (loan) thats 8. You could even count Pellistri who has come in but Ole after saying he would be a starter has decided not to start him.
What do you count then over 2 years as a big influx?

 

[Skåre Willoch]

I’m gonna be crystal clear here and as nice as I can to such a moronic claim...

If we win the league this season, I’ll be fecking blown away, and no, Skåre, don’t act like such an utter imbecile, winning the league any season is a brilliant act from any manager, be it Raneiri, Conte, Klopp or Ole.

Ffs, what a fecking ridiculous hypothetical. Seriously, go give all your heads a shake.

The difference with many of us doubters is that we’d understand a league win would show us to be morons, and I want that!! You all have your excuses in already for why Ole can’t actually do anything yet and “anything” would be an extraordinary over-achievement. The majority of you would be fine with 4th and a point more than last season.
You’re dug in your trench, way more than I am, cause I ACTUALLY WANT TO BE WRONG.

Calm down, mate. You of all should handle a bit of tongue in cheek criticism. Of course I think most in the Ole out camp would be happy with winning the league.

And you really, really have the wrong impression of my views on Ole. @justsomebloke summed up my views perfectly a couple of pages back.
I'm not in a trench at all, other than the trench that is calling out all the stupidity, ridiculousness and negativity posted by some of the Ole outers (you and especially @Mainoldo included).

(Also, winning the league is an incredible achievement any time, any where, but it has actually been used as a stick to beat fecking Leicester with. "The league was extraordinarily weak that season", as if that takes anything away from their accomplishment. Or as a stick to beat Pochettino with, to prove why he's not "elite", by others. And no, I won't scroll through 40.800 posts in this thread alone to find examples.)

 

[wolvored]

I dun know, stopped reading at apples

Yes the same. I thought I was reading about an orchard or something

 

[VP89]

Calm down, mate. You of all should handle a bit of tongue in cheek criticism. Of course I think most in the Ole out camp would be happy with winning the league.

And you really, really have the wrong impression of my views on Ole. @justsomebloke summed up my views perfectly a couple of pages back.
I'm not in a trench at all, other than the trench that is calling out all the stupidity, ridiculousness and negativity posted by some of the Ole outers (you and especially @Mainoldo included).

(Also, winning the league is an incredible achievement any time, any where, but it has actually been used as a stick to beat fecking Leicester with. "The league was extraordinarily weak that season", as if that takes anything away from their accomplishment. Or as a stick to beat Pochettino with, to prove why he's not "elite", by others. And no, I won't scroll through 40.800 posts in this thread alone to find examples.)

You are most certainly in a "trench" as you put it, because you seem to segregate anyone who thinks differently as the other side.

As for you "calling out stupidity and ridiculousness", it's massively ironic that you collude an imaginary scenario and assume what responses would be. There is nothing more stupid and ridiculous than that approach to debate, right there.

 

[justsomebloke]

Yes the same. I thought I was reading about an orchard or something

Do read on. It's quite funny. Also, if you don't (or at least if you say you don't) people are just going to assume that you're uncomfortable about being accurately lampooned.

 

[troylocker]

I dun know, stopped reading at apples

That hurts, man