Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?


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lsd

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Jose would have played to our strengths though, it would have been horrible to watch no doubt, but I think he'd have got more points. He's just got a bit more about him tactically.

More points than 15 on the bounce ?
 

Judas

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This is in a magical land where Mourinho had a personality transplant and didn't lose the dressing room and get fired, I take it?
Well yes it's all hypothetical isn't it? At his core, he's clearly leagues above Ole as a manager. Even at his worst, he was still getting more points than Ole currently is, unless Ole pulls off a miracle in the next three games.
 

Withnail

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Well yes it's all hypothetical isn't it? At his core, he's clearly leagues above Ole as a manager. Even at his worst, he was still getting more points than Ole currently is, unless Ole pulls off a miracle in the next three games.
Weird mental gymnastics to get to this point and I really dont see why you'd want to invent a scenario so divorced from reality.
 

Chesterlestreet

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Villa had much less possession, much less shots, half the shots on target, a lower pass completion and scored an absolute worldie.
Easily ignored in the absence of a (good enough) result.

But you're right. Stats weren't horrible.

Ain't about stats, though - not that type of stats, anyway. It's about where we should be seeing...something...in the way we play. Consistently, that is.

I said, around the time just after Ole was announced as permanent manager (and I was against that - I didn't consider it wise, for various reasons, to make it permanent at the time) that what I expected from him was mainly (to see) a consistent style being implemented. With regard to pressing, with regard to patterns, with regard to - well - the whole feckin' unit looking somewhat well drilled.

Haven't seen that, to be honest. We still look somewhat disjointed - or too disjointed, too frequently. There isn't an undeniable improvement on the whole. There are all kinds of mitigating circumstances, and the front trio look devastating at times (but it means feck all until we see it regularly).

As I've - also - said before, mitigating circumstances are nice but they don't mean much the longer into someone's tenure you get without that "undeniable improvement" part.

Still - yeah, you're essentially right with regard to that particular match. They didn't actually "outplay" us in any meaningful sense, and the difference between a point and the full three was a worldie you usually avoid. Again, though - overall picture: what do you see? Genuinely promising stuff - only undermined by a bit of bad luck, injuries, calculated lack of squad quality in some positions (it wil be addressed, though), feck knows what? Or - well, the alternative is obvious.
 

Foxbatt

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1. I’ve definitely not said that our midfield is the worst in the league, it might even be top 4 quality, but without Pogba it is not. Without McTominay as well it is a mid-table midfield at best. Hard to foresee that we would be missing our best midfielder before the next window, even harder to foresee that our second best midfielder would get injured in the same period. We all agree that we need to improve our midfield, both in quality and depth if we wanna go somewhere with this squad, but let’s be honest at least: This is a typical in hindsight complaint, and you were screaming a lot louder about not replacing Lukaku in August.
2. I agree. I’m sick of our corners being too short and low, but today isn’t the best timing to bring this up maybe. Both goals yesterday came from headers from corner variations.....

Regarding your second question in question numbers one: Were Soyuncu and Tielemans safe bets, or is this another one of those in hindsight cases? Soyuncu played 371 minutes of PL football last season. Tielemans looked promising, but even though he was decent both in Monaco and Leicester last season, he sure wasn’t an obvious target for us.
Everything in sports and especially football is a calculated gamble. We got world class players in Veron, De Maria, Falcao to name a few. It didn't work because not they were bad players but because they didn't fit into the system.
My point is that Ole should have strengthened the midfield. This is not in hindsight. I have no problems of Lukaku being sold. I have no problems if he didn't buy a striker either this season. I didn't have a problem if he didn't buy a CB if he strengthened the midfield.
Given that there is no guarantee that Soyuncu and Tielemans would play that well under Ole.
He simply is not a top class coach. Someone posted a gif of our strikers not attacking the ball that's crossed in front of the goal. That simply because we have only one player who is naturally capable of that and he is Greenwood and he is one the bench most of the time.
 

Mihai

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How many of those games do you think we would have won under Jose ?
Less than Ole, obviously.

However we should consider the timing, as Jose was at the end of his managerial cycle, and the fact that Ole hasn't been able to replicate that form ( not even come close to it).
 

Withnail

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Well lucky for me I didn't invent such a scenario and was just following along with a discussion on a internet message board.
Yeah and the original question was to do with the quality of the squad Ole took over, the run the team went on and whether Mourinho would have done better.

It wasnt about this season.
 

Withnail

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Easily ignored in the absence of a (good enough) result.

But you're right. Stats weren't horrible.

Ain't about stats, though - not that type of stats, anyway. It's about where we should be seeing...something...in the way we play. Consistently, that is.

I said, around the time just after Ole was announced as permanent manager (and I was against that - I didn't consider it wise, for various reasons, to make it permanent at the time) that what I expected from him was mainly (to see) a consistent style being implemented. With regard to pressing, with regard to patterns, with regard to - well - the whole feckin' unit looking somewhat well drilled.

Haven't seen that, to be honest. We still look somewhat disjointed - or too disjointed, too frequently. There isn't an undeniable improvement on the whole. There are all kinds of mitigating circumstances, and the front trio look devastating at times (but it means feck all until we see it regularly).

As I've - also - said before, mitigating circumstances are nice but they don't mean much the longer into someone's tenure you get without that "undeniable improvement" part.

Still - yeah, you're essentially right with regard to that particular match. They didn't actually "outplay" us in any meaningful sense, and the difference between a point and the full three was a worldie you usually avoid. Again, though - overall picture: what do you see? Genuinely promising stuff - only undermined by a bit of bad luck, injuries, calculated lack of squad quality in some positions (it wil be addressed, though), feck knows what? Or - well, the alternative is obvious.
I wouldnt disagree with anything you're saying. However I do think stats are an excellent indication of how a team is performing and whether things are moving in the right direction.

Obviously the squad is waffer thin and between Ole and the board they have gambled and lost in this regard.

We've seen the club dither on transfers in the past so I lean towards either the money wasnt there or the club ran out of time then to believe Ole chose to go into the season without midfield reinforcements but we just dont know.

I still dont think all is lost this season and that keep thinking the teams luck will turn. Also if you put Pogba and McTominay into this team they are easily good enough for top 4 but still a good few signings away from a title challenge.

Ole may not be the man to take the team to a title challenge but I'm not sure much more could have been done thus far with the players available.

Firing him now without a top quality manager ready and willing to come in would make things worse imo.
 

bonothom

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United on course for a 50 point season. Watford got 50 points last season finishing 11th, and now look at them. United could well be where Watford are this time next season if the current setup is left in charge.
 

troylocker

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Everything in sports and especially football is a calculated gamble. We got world class players in Veron, De Maria, Falcao to name a few. It didn't work because not they were bad players but because they didn't fit into the system.
My point is that Ole should have strengthened the midfield. This is not in hindsight. I have no problems of Lukaku being sold. I have no problems if he didn't buy a striker either this season. I didn't have a problem if he didn't buy a CB if he strengthened the midfield.
Given that there is no guarantee that Soyuncu and Tielemans would play that well under Ole.
He simply is not a top class coach. Someone posted a gif of our strikers not attacking the ball that's crossed in front of the goal. That simply because we have only one player who is naturally capable of that and he is Greenwood and he is one the bench most of the time.
Are you saying Greenwood should start over Martial? I’m not so sure many managers would...
 

momo83

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There are a few documentaries about Ole and his time at Molde floating around youtube. You can catch a glimpse at what he is at training and what his ideas are.

It's basically this:
when you're close to the box or in the box - shoot
get the ball forward quickly and put it in the box

might as well add Paul Ince to the staff, get the true United way going
Most people were praising that video when he became interim... I remember thinking it was a sign of a limited manager. Also the game vs Spurs when we won 1 nil and de Gea made like 30 saves was when I first pointed out that Ole freezes under pressure and his in-game management is none existent. Because Spurs were dominating for so long and he did nothing it was only bad finishing and consistent work fromDe Gea that prevented them scoring two or three by the time Ole made a change, which was bring on Lukaku let Spurs attack hope they don’t score and try to hit them on the break.
 

Greck

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Most people were praising that video when he became interim... I remember thinking it was a sign of a limited manager. Also the game vs Spurs when we won 1 nil and de Gea made like 30 saves was when I first pointed out that Ole freezes under pressure and his in-game management is none existent. Because Spurs were dominating for so long and he did nothing it was only bad finishing and consistent work fromDe Gea that prevented them scoring two or three by the time Ole made a change, which was bring on Lukaku let Spurs attack hope they don’t score and try to hit them on the break.
Yeah I pointed it out several times that he was bollocking them for not playing dinosaur tactics
 

momo83

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Yeah I pointed it out several times that he was bollocking them for not playing dinosaur tactics
Exactly. All it does is teaches people to shot regardless of if they can pass it to someone whose in a better position, or if the shot will obviously get blocked etc
 

Snow

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I'd like to see this poll done again. I know you can change your vote but it's not something people generally think about doing.
 

Dr Fink

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Lose to Spurs at home and a convicing loss (3-0) to City and he's gone in my opinion. I love the guy but he's not the man to manage United. Sad, sad times.
 

Yakuza_devils

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A part from the first 65 minutes of the SU match, I don't think we have been outplayed by any of the low/mid-table clubs we have lost points against this season. While not being able to muster our best 11, we have lacked creativity, aggression in both boxes and been poor at finishing, while also suffering defensive brainfarts and worldies against us to get unflattering results. The blaim has to be shared between more than the manager alone. Against the top 6 clubs we have faced we’ve had great results and decent performances all the way. I’m not saying we’re playing great football, because we’re not, but is not black and white.
So being outplayed for 65 mins by Sheffield and we were lucky to nit a draw is OK? We should have lost by 2 or 3 - 0 if not for the miraculous 7 mins of the game.

Villa felt gutted with a draw at OT. Enough said.
 

Bocca9978

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Lose to Spurs at home and a convicing loss (3-0) to City and he's gone in my opinion. I love the guy but he's not the man to manage United. Sad, sad times.
I’m thinking the same now.
Haven’t changed my vote yet.

Sad if we’re holding out not to get thumped 3-0 in each of the next two.
 

laughtersassassin

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I'd like to see this poll done again. I know you can change your vote but it's not something people generally think about doing.
Yeah, think the thread should be close and re vote out if interest. I don't expect we would see the same results.

So many vote would be left over from months ago I reckon.
 

el3mel

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Lose to Spurs at home and a convicing loss (3-0) to City and he's gone in my opinion. I love the guy but he's not the man to manage United. Sad, sad times.
We're due a result that will save Ole's job. Reckon we'll do well against Spurs and earn a hard fought draw. Won't be a surprise if we manage to scrap a 1-0 win while parking the bus. It's pretty much LVG's second season all over again.
 

bonothom

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For the fans thinking none of this is Solskjaers fault and saying this is the poorest set of players in Uniteds Premier league history.

From a post on football 365 -
"GK Tomasz Kuszczak
DEF Evra Carrick Fletcher Park
MID Gibson Scholes Welbeck Anderson Nani
FWD Michael Owen

That team beat Wolfsburg away 3-1. Ole’s job is about more than just buying players. He actually needs to coach."

Pretty much spot on I'd say! The current team and players is at least on the same level if not better in some positions than the above team. Properly coached United would easily have a chance of top 4.
 

mu4c_20le

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Pretty much spot on I'd say! The current team and players is at least on the same level if not better in some positions than the above team. Properly coached United would easily have a chance of top 4.
Chelsea - Jorginho, Kovacic, Mount
Spurs - Ndombele, Dier, Sissoko, Eriksen
Leicester - Ndidi, Tielemans, Maddison
United - Fred, Mctominay, Pereira

Top 4 la
 

Mihai

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Yeah, think the thread should be close and re vote out if interest. I don't expect we would see the same results.

So many vote would be left over from months ago I reckon.
I think we need a poll to establish if we need a new poll.
 

Leftback99

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For the fans thinking none of this is Solskjaers fault and saying this is the poorest set of players in Uniteds Premier league history.

From a post on football 365 -
"GK Tomasz Kuszczak
DEF Evra Carrick Fletcher Park
MID Gibson Scholes Welbeck Anderson Nani
FWD Michael Owen

That team beat Wolfsburg away 3-1. Ole’s job is about more than just buying players. He actually needs to coach."

Pretty much spot on I'd say! The current team and players is at least on the same level if not better in some positions than the above team. Properly coached United would easily have a chance of top 4.
And on the Saturday this team lost 0-1 to Villa at Home.
Kuszczak
Fletcher Vidic Brown Evra
Valencia Carrick Anderson Giggs
Park Rooney

So much delusion about how a bit of 'coaching' will turn Pereira, Fred, Mata and the like into a winning machine.
 

Mainoldo

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And on the Saturday this team lost 0-1 to Villa at Home.
Kuszczak
Fletcher Vidic Brown Evra
Valencia Carrick Anderson Giggs
Park Rooney

So much delusion about how a bit of 'coaching' will turn Pereira, Fred, Mata and the like into a winning machine.
Was that team 9th after the loss?
 

Adcuth

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If he was shit at Cardiff and people say that job was above him, how come this job isn't?
 

Mainoldo

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Of course not. Look at the level of it compared to our current dross.
I see Fletcher at RB and Anderson plus a GK not better than our number 2. Like the points are pretty useless. We beat Arsenal with Fabio and Park in CM.

Ole is just useless.. he could have Leicester's midfield he would have lost.
 

adexkola

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I don't care. Won't change much if everything stays the same.

But I don't look at sacking the manager as a quick fix, and I'm cognizant of all the clubs that have hired and fired their way down the divisions so meh... fire him, will dispel the gloom from this side of the forum for like 3 months
 

fps

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I don't care. Won't change much if everything stays the same.

But I don't look at sacking the manager as a quick fix, and I'm cognizant of all the clubs that have hired and fired their way down the divisions so meh... fire him, will dispel the gloom from this side of the forum for like 3 months
But this forum is a cesspool of whingers, more widely the feeling is more positive. (Cue conspiracy theorists who think the club’s owners want it to fail)
 

Leftback99

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I see Fletcher at RB and Anderson plus a GK not better than our number 2. Like the points are pretty useless. We beat Arsenal with Fabio and Park in CM.

Ole is just useless.. he could have Leicester's midfield he would have lost.
We can all pick out random games and say 'look at this team we won/lost with'. Rooney and Ronaldo vs Southend?

If you can't see the difference between the current squad and some of SAFs best that's your problem. It's night and day. Then again you're the guy who thought most of our team would be starters for City this time last year so i'm not surprised.
 

90 + 5min

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And on the Saturday this team lost 0-1 to Villa at Home.
Kuszczak
Fletcher Vidic Brown Evra
Valencia Carrick Anderson Giggs
Park Rooney

So much delusion about how a bit of 'coaching' will turn Pereira, Fred, Mata and the like into a winning machine.
People really think that changing managers would make us top level again. As everything is Ole fault. One year later ( if we have similar squad) they would be screaming out for new manager. Those who are most vocal regarding Ole out were most vocal with Moyes, van Gaal, Mourinho and even Ferguson were managers. For them players seem to be immune to all kind of criticism.
 

Leftback99

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People really think that changing managers would make us top level again. As everything is Ole fault. One year later ( if we have similar squad) they would be screaming out for new manager. Those who are most vocal regarding Ole out were most vocal with Moyes, van Gaal, Mourinho and even Ferguson were managers. For them players seem to be immune to all kind of criticism.
From our regular starters this season we have a bunch of run of the mill average players, the type most PL teams have if we take off the rose tinted specs:

Lindelof
Williams
Shaw
Young
Fred
Pereira
Mata
McTominay (potential)
James (potential)
Lingard

We have a handful of 'top 4' quality players to separate us from mid table:

Maguire
Wan Bissaka
Rashford
Martial

Pogba has been missing all season, De Gea has no impact on our outfield play.

In the past we could easily claim to having 6/7 of the best players in the league at any particular time, not top 4 at best. Good luck to any manager trying to live up to those standards from the past with this lot.

It's beyond 'a bit of coaching and we'll be good' territory.
 

Adnan

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We lost to Palace at home with Pogba and McTominay starting in midfield. It's not just a poor midfield that has been a issue, it's also our coaches who are not experienced or good enough to lead us to where we want to be.