Yes there are signs of improvement how much though because of Bruno. Listen weve got some incredibly talented players but we should look through thst and be objectively assessing the couching behind that, it isn't hard to see its not top level simple as that.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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Interesting fact is when we finished 6th with Mourinho we had 66 points and 19 wins. If we win our two remaining games with Ole we will end up 3rd with 68 points and 19 wins.
Best season since Fergie mate.
Of course he should stay. I'm glad he takes all the cup competitions seriously and it brings a mentality that we go for everything. Obviously we don't have the squad to compete on all fronts, but coming in with that mentality and throwing away certain competitions will bring more complacency. So yeah. We've been on a great run since January, our best since Sir Alex retired, our team is looking better and better but you can't win them all. Our record against smaller teams has improved in the 2nd half of the season, while we've had a big game record 2nd to Liverpool this year. Just needs some patience.
Overreacting because we lost an FA Cup semi final to Chelsea, who are pretty much on the same level as us and in a similar situation, who we've beaten 3 times already this season, is not a cause for over-reaction. It's just one of those things. You'll win some, you'll lose some. That's all it is.
Overreacting because we lost an FA Cup semi final to Chelsea, who are pretty much on the same level as us and in a similar situation, who we've beaten 3 times already this season, is not a cause for over-reaction. It's just one of those things. You'll win some, you'll lose some. That's all it is.
Given the starting positions and the state of the league in both cases it’s not that interesting
Overpaying isn't just about the manager, it's also about the people running the club. But the question isn't 'Did we overpay for Maguire', it's whether he's good enough and should have been bought at all.
Signing him showed a sad lack of any basic creativity, and we will be paying for that over the next few years as we suffer for his limits.
Pre and Post coronavirus, we basically enjoyed two good months over an entire season of football. Two really good months, yes. Also, we may make the CL, and we may win the Europa League.
Overall, I'm not even sure if it's the best season since Fergie. And even if it is, it will be by a whisker, and still nothing that we'll remember in years to come.
He still need to continue his work next season... unless we ridiculously lose all our next games with the players just bottling it which is unlikely.
I standby that if we don't get Champions League football - we have made not enough progress and he should go. I think that's being generous as well, we're giving him the benefit of waiting till the very end of the season to see if he can do it.
We're not awful, there's definitely a lot of good qualities this team has but still not sure he can take us all the way to a challenging status. How he handles this De Gea situation is a big factor.
We're not awful, there's definitely a lot of good qualities this team has but still not sure he can take us all the way to a challenging status. How he handles this De Gea situation is a big factor.
I’m ready for it to end. Let’s hope we get the job done and for the love of god drop DDG.
That's not interesting at all. That season depressed the feck out of me. All of it. I'm enjoying watching us now. Not today, obviously but in general. We're exciting. Have you not been excited? Is that not what's important?
Have we not sacked the useless Norwegian failed Cardiff City Manager yet?
Bloody hell. Sack Fergie, sell Giggs level silliness.
All today showed is that we don't have the squad depth we need. Sensible to rest a few players but it did confirm what we already knew. So calm the feck down people.
All today showed is that we don't have the squad depth we need. Sensible to rest a few players but it did confirm what we already knew. So calm the feck down people.
Well said mate. Spot on!
Agreed. We simply don't have the squad depth at the moment. Plenty of youth but not enough experience.
Seeing as our major issue was lack of creativity through the middle, I'd say a lot. Like, what's the criticism here? We bought a good player with a set of abilities we badly needed, which reflects poorly on Ole how?
You also glossed over my rebuttal of your claim that no one here has an agenda against Ole. I'd be interested in hearing what other explanations you have for United "supporters" denying reality and seeing us picking up points as a negative.
Agenda is not just based on who the subject is. In this case, agendas could be anywhere from not getting the manager some fans wanted (i.e the cv talk) to some fans having already reached a conclusion in their heads (i.e. Ole will be never be a top class manager) and trying everything prove them.
Football fans in general are embarrassing.
Yeah. Clearly exposed just how weak we are for cover in critical positions like FB. I’m comfortable with our cover for MF and most of the front line excluding RW but when our two FB go missing due to injury or just fatigue we are fecked.
"He's had 1.5 seasons......"
To put right 6 years of incompetence.
One could even argue that RVP carried our carcass to a title we were lucky to be unchallenged for.
If the trajectory is upwards, it makes for a hard argument to sack a manager.
If we fall backwards next year, I'll probably be looking for him to be replaced, but we have to give him a chance while he's making progress.
And, unless we are playing squad members, we are great to watch again, and our best players are still really young, with potential to become something very special.
I hope we keep improving with Ole.
Starting all over again is too painful.
To put right 6 years of incompetence.
One could even argue that RVP carried our carcass to a title we were lucky to be unchallenged for.
If the trajectory is upwards, it makes for a hard argument to sack a manager.
If we fall backwards next year, I'll probably be looking for him to be replaced, but we have to give him a chance while he's making progress.
And, unless we are playing squad members, we are great to watch again, and our best players are still really young, with potential to become something very special.
I hope we keep improving with Ole.
Starting all over again is too painful.
Sure, i'll bite. Here's Jose league form in the 25 match run, compared to Oles current 12 game run.
Manager | Start | End | Games | Matchday* | GF | GA | GD | Clean Sheets | Wins | Draws | Win % | Goals Per Game | Clean Sheet % |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Jose | Sat 29.10.2016 | Sun 30.04.2017 | 25 | 10 to 34 | 38 | 13 | 25 | 12 | 13 | 12 | 52.0% | 1.5 | 48.0% |
Ole | Sat 01.02.2020 | ... | 12 | 46 to 57 | 27 | 6 | 21 | 8 | 8 | 4 | 66.7% | 2.3 | 66.7% |
* This column represents when the run occured during the Managers reign. 1 to 12 = 1st game to Managers 12th game.
Here's Oles 19 game unbeaten run, notice the win %s are both higher than Joses run, who managed 12 draws. You actually had a go at Ole for having many draws in this run as well. Higher clean sheet %, higher goals scored per game. Jose's 25 game run was decent in that we remained undefeated but it was also pretty shit by the sheer quantity of draws and low goals scored. Both our current league run (joint 2nd best since Sir Alex retired) and the below all comps run (best since Sir Alex retired) have better stats. I'd also say that Jose's run would be put down to new Manager bounce, his other runs after that have been worse than Oles.
| Club | Manager | Games Unbeaten | Start Date | End Date | Goals For | Goals Against | Clean Sheets | Win % |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Manchester Utd | Ole | 19 | 26.01.2020 | 16.07.2020 | 50 | 8 | 13 | 74% |
You could to be fair argue that we faced worse opposition in the 19 game unbeaten run due to FA Cup/Europa League. That's a fair point, but i'd also point out that the highest All Comps run since Sir Alex retired is far less than the longest unbeaten league run. Klopp has the longest in the PL, Pep the longest in all comps and the difference is something like 10/12 games. Can't be bothered to pull up the data, I posted them the other day somewhere.
I stand corrected, it looks far better than the run under Jose. Thanks for the detailed post! Especially, in goals scored, I had no idea that we scored only 1.5 goals under Jose's run (compare to 2.5 under Ole's second run).
We lost the title in GD, after fecking up in the last 4 matches the season before that. I actually think (and thought back then), that we would have won the title without RVP (as long as he would not have joined City). SAF had a point to prove and no way in hell he would have allowed to be bested by Mancini (of all people again). RVP just made the title easier (12 points difference).
Jose still got us scoring more and winning more points than Ole. Ole is far more comparable with Van Gaal, but with Van Gaal his unbeaten runs were shit and he was already struggling at this point. Ole is different to Jose, Van Gaal in that he's shown signs of progress after a decline. Whether he keeps us going or this is just a blip is the question.
Top 4 and it's a decent season for me.
Top 4 and Europa League and it's a good season.
Considering the amount of good players he's brought in. It's not easy to do that.
Top 4 and Europa League and it's a good season.
Considering the amount of good players he's brought in. It's not easy to do that.
Yeah, I don't fall asleep during matches anymore.
Here I agree. When Jose and Van Gaal fecked up, they were never able to come back (though LVG was very close actually, all we needed was to keep the 1-0 or later 2-1 advantage against West Ham and would have got the fourth place while winning FA Cup), while Ole managed to come back after the worst half-season we had in EPL (yes, I think we were worse than under Sir David Moyes). So this should count for something, and IMO it bought Ole's enough time to redeem the season. Now all that remains is for him to show that he does not feck up again in the next 2 matches. 2 points might be enough, as should be 3, and 4 points on these 2 matches should guarantee UCL which IMO is enough to give him another season and Sancho.
For what is worth, I don't think that he will win (big) trophies with us, but I would be perfectly happy having him as manager next season as long as we reach UCL in the next 2 matches. And honestly, it should not be that hard to do so.
This and the post-Bruno improvement in overall statistics is enough for another season.
If we get Sancho and vdB and Ole starts proving he's capable of proper rotation - jury's still out on whether he's too poor of a coach/too scared to try it or whether he simply doesn't trust the second-string - another season after next.
It was Van Gaal who cured insomnia, I thought. Anyway, RedSky gave an extremely solid answer to that, so I cannot argue that point.
It started with LvG but Jose sprinkled his fair share of zombie dust, too (I even dozed off during the EL final).
Even without statistics one can see there's something affot here. The players aren't afraid to try things and make mistakes and they're young enough to learn and improve from that. That's a huge difference from Ole's predecessors.
This a million %
What's happened since Ole came in, tbf over different time periods is way more enjoyable than anything I got with the last 3 managers. Whether that can be proved with overwhelming stats to satisfy some...........but at different stages particularly this last load of months the foot all been excellent. Also the buzz he bought to the team and the sense of positivity compared to the last barren years, main reasons I'm still all in.
Spin the money side, but if we get a solid league finished it be a big plus. It's not tbe new arsenal but seasons have stages and at one stage, if you even look back to the redcafe, people where saying finishing high in the season been a incredible considering the state of our first 11.
Remember some relegation chat as well
I've seen quite a few posts on Ole not being a 'big game' manager that wins trophies. I'd reserve judgement until we have a proper squad with decent depth next season. We are paper thin at the moment and tactical adaptation/tinkering is limited to the skills we have on the bench, which isn't much. To put it very bluntly, you can't polish turd.
This notion that a new manager is required to win trophies is archaic in the contemporary footballing context where there are very few club managers who could be considered long-term servants with a track record of winning trophies consistently.
This notion that a new manager is required to win trophies is archaic in the contemporary footballing context where there are very few club managers who could be considered long-term servants with a track record of winning trophies consistently.
Excuse me, could someone point me in the direction or Redcafe? I appear to have found myself on RAWK by mistake.
Ole is obviously not getting sacked under any footballing circumstances this summer. Even if we miss top 4 via league and Europa.
So this thread has run its course. Frankly, it's embarrassing.
Would be good if a mod would close it!
So this thread has run its course. Frankly, it's embarrassing.
Would be good if a mod would close it!
How do you know it? Are you best mate with Ed, or do you get the information directly from Glazers?
He is not getting the sack and you know it. am More than happy to make a big bet with you
I don't know if he is gonna get the sack or not. I also think that now seems likely that he will get fourth, which should ensure him being here for another season.
I also know that there were posters who were claiming that Moyes won't get sacked the same day he got sacked. So my point is, we have no fecking idea. We only have the precedent that any manager who started the season and didn't manage to get UCL football got sacked.
Yes he has been poor in 3 games he played
That's like me saying Leicester were only so far ahead of us because we were poor in the first half of the season. We basically handed it to them over a silver platter.
Teams have their ups and downs over the course of a season. Leicester were flying early on and now have had a bad dip in form, opposite to how pur campaign has gone so far. The fact that we have gained so much ground on the two teams above us is no joke.
Also, we were on a 19 game unbeaten streak before yesterday. Not many teams can claim that especially at the business end of the season.
I was firmly in the Ole out camp before Bruno joined us. The gulf in quality between him and Lingard/Pereira is enormous and I am comfortable giving Ole a pass for the first half of the season as we were basically forced to play one of the two players above. If we get top 4, I think Ole deserves at the very least another season as we have seen a definite shift in how we are playing now.
However, if we bottle it again like last season, you do have to wonder if the management also lacks steel and that will be a concern.
Ole has no clue on how to manage fitness of the squad, there no squad rotation and fatigue in his mind. Remember how he took risk rushing unfit Pogba and Rashford back during early mid season in those meaningless matches, which both end up in long term injuries? And how he refuse to rest our tired first team players in FA cup during the critical stage for top 4 fight now. If we crumble again it’s all on Ole fault, he could have avoided that.
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