Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?

  • Sack Ole & appoint new coach ASAP

  • Keep Ole & back him to finish rebuild


Results are only viewable after voting.

romufc

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We played exact same formation and players (except Shaw instead of Bailly) when we won 2-0 against City and City were barely in the game.
Also exact same formation and players (except Shaw instead of Bailly) when we won 2-0 against Chelsea at brdge

We played 3 at the back when we won 1-0 at City away in league cup and also Chelsea away.

I agree with your point that we shouldn't have played it but this has worked well in big games this season. We should have stuck to something that was working well since restart.
The difference with those games is we were somewhat forced to use those formations then. We didnt have anyone in the attack to play our normal game.

How can you go with the exact same formation and tactics for the 3rd time against the same manager and think it would work.

We might have used that formation before and it worked but we also had time to prepare for those formations, the Chelsea away game came after a winter break. This game came after 3 days. We looked lost in that formation and you could tell it didn't suit us.
 

Mainoldo

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We did indeed but like I say, fatigue is clearly a massive issue in recent games.

We've played 4 games in 9 days and 3 of them have been away matches with Chelsea having 4 days rest.

Color me shocked they had more energy about them than us.
So do you agree we should have just rested players.
 

roonster09

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The difference with those games is we were somewhat forced to use those formations then. We didnt have anyone in the attack to play our normal game.

How can you go with the exact same formation and tactics for the 3rd time against the same manager and think it would work.

We might have used that formation before and it worked but we also had time to prepare for those formations, the Chelsea away game came after a winter break. This game came after 3 days. We looked lost in that formation and you could tell it didn't suit us.
Ok Mr.Hindsight.
 

Withnail

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You're damn right it's about him personally. A supposed legend defends the Glazers (after being against them as a player), lies to our fans, says Glazers INVESTED money in Man United, calls fans who sang against Glazers fake, calls fans not coming to the stadium fake etc. etc. If anyone else did this everybody would be up their throat. Why do you lower your standards now??

He's horrific because he always uses the same team, the same tactics and if the other manager as much as moves one player 10 meters on one side or the other he has no clue how to react. He has no clue about physical preparation, about lowering and raising the intensity of the team according to different parts of the year. He's a horrible horrible manager that won't have another job in any of the top 5 leagues once he fecks out of here, no doubt in my mind about that.

No I'm not gonna put the 'point obsession' aside. Points are literally what determines how good your season in the league is. Literally what you need to have more of than your opponent to be better than them. And what makes it worse is that all the other clubs aside from top two are literally falling apart around us. This is the worst Prem season in a long time and we're still fighting tooth and nail for a top 4 spot.

Situation under Mourinho became that toxic because he wasn't backed properly. He finished 2nd with THIS team more or less and didn't get any of his targets to improve upon that. I agree he had to go when he did, but it never should've gotten to that point in the first place.

Also don't give me that crap about 'takes time to fix and repair things'. As I said yesterday just a little more than 20 months ago being second was not good enough. 81 pts was not good enough. Being 20pts behind our city rivals was not good enough. We had a team good enough for the title according to our fans. What tf changed then?

Because according to our fans we got rid of a toxic manager, we got a club legend who has developed the best team spirit in years, our new manager recruited excellently and got rid of deadwood from the previous toxic manager. Following logic and thinking of our fans we have a better manager and a better squad than 20 months ago and better atmosphere than we've ever had since SAF left and we STILL have the worst season in 30 years. How is that possible, explain please? It's not because other teams are better, we had more pts with Mourinho at 6th couple years ago.

World of football is dominated by money. Every other league is being won 90% of the time by the team with most money, except EPL. We generate more money annually than any other club not named RM or Barca. We must have the standards in line with that. I don't buy the crap about rebuilds, doing it the right way, United way, United DNA etc. We have the money, stature and power to be winning Premier League titles in no more than 12 months from now.

There's no other industry in the world in which failure is excused this much, even welcomed. Organizations that have the conditions to be successful right away intentionally delaying it for some idiotic reasons. How do you think RM or Barcelona would react being 37 points behind each other, missing out on CL football?

THAT's how Ole took the club backwards. Things that weren't acceptable at any point in our history, let alone as recently as 2 years ago, are now welcomed and celebrated. The standards haven't been lowered, they don't exist anymore.
Incredible amount of spin in this post. For a start, this is not the same team that came second. It's truly baffling that you would even suggest it. I think you need to look back at Mourinho's team sheets that season. There have been wholesale changes since then.

3 of our current starting XI got more than 20 appearances in the league that season and a further 2 got more than 15 appearances.

I don't know where you're getting the idea that the team that came second was good enough for the title. They never were and De Gea playing out of his skin earned them something like 10 extra points that season.

Also, Mourinho got fired because he threw his toys out of the pram and lost the dressing room. He didn't have to do that, he chose to so that's on him.
 

Bilbo

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It does seem like it's the collective quality of our players that wins us games, rather than the tactical nous of our manager.
You could make that argument for every top team in every league. They all have the best players, so why should any of those managers get credit?

If you're going to go in this direction with your thinking, you have to then look at how Ole has performed against the better teams. Those are the games where both teams have a strong squad and, in theory, tactics would be more likely to be the deciding factor. That's only fair, right?

Games under Ole against the following opponents - Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham, Leicester

Won 12
Drawn 3
Lost 4

Its not too shabby. Rather impressive actually. For me, this should put to bed any strong arguments that he is out of his depth tactically. Those numbers speak for themselves
 

romufc

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Ok Mr.Hindsight.
No. It is called poor management.

We are not Burley or a team from the bottom half playing Man City where we sit back defend and hope for the best.

We are Manutd playing Chelsea who are 1 point away from us and got absolutely battered off the park. It is naivety from the manager.

I know what, I will play Dan James regardless of his form now because it worked before? Dan James has done nothing since restart to even deserve a starting place.

I like Ole and I think he is done well but this is exactly what he needs to improve on. We are not the same United as before and he keeps saying that, so why go back to the same old tactics?

We have been playing well in the 4-2-3-1 formation. We had 2 days to practice this 5 at the back and it showed.

This is a team 1 point ahead of us and has lost more games that United have and we acted as if they are Barcelona.
 

Withnail

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No. It is called poor management.

We are not Burley or a team from the bottom half playing Man City where we sit back defend and hope for the best.

We are Manutd playing Chelsea who are 1 point away from us and got absolutely battered off the park. It is naivety from the manager.

I know what, I will play Dan James regardless of his form now because it worked before? Dan James has done nothing since restart to even deserve a starting place.

I like Ole and I think he is done well but this is exactly what he needs to improve on. We are not the same United as before and he keeps saying that, so why go back to the same old tactics?

We have been playing well in the 4-2-3-1 formation. We had 2 days to practice this 5 at the back and it showed.

This is a team 1 point ahead of us and has lost more games that United have and we acted as if they are Barcelona.
This type of thing baffles me. How do you know how often the team practices different formations?
 

roonster09

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No. It is called poor management.

We are not Burley or a team from the bottom half playing Man City where we sit back defend and hope for the best.

We are Manutd playing Chelsea who are 1 point away from us and got absolutely battered off the park. It is naivety from the manager.

I know what, I will play Dan James regardless of his form now because it worked before? Dan James has done nothing since restart to even deserve a starting place.

I like Ole and I think he is done well but this is exactly what he needs to improve on. We are not the same United as before and he keeps saying that, so why go back to the same old tactics?

We have been playing well in the 4-2-3-1 formation. We had 2 days to practice this 5 at the back and it showed.

This is a team 1 point ahead of us and has lost more games that United have and we acted as if they are Barcelona.
Yeah if you think players somehow forget how to play 3 at the back and start from 0. Maybe we should stick to 3 at the back as player might have forgotten to play 4-2-3-1 as we played 3-5-2 this game.

Yeah comparing James and 3-5-2 is all same. Well done.
 

Bilbo

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The difference with those games is we were somewhat forced to use those formations then. We didnt have anyone in the attack to play our normal game.

How can you go with the exact same formation and tactics for the 3rd time against the same manager and think it would work.

We might have used that formation before and it worked but we also had time to prepare for those formations, the Chelsea away game came after a winter break. This game came after 3 days. We looked lost in that formation and you could tell it didn't suit us.
If we'd changed it and lost, it would be "why would you change a strategy that has worked before?"

In other words, you guys will find something to attack any time we lose a game. Its getting boring
 

romufc

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This type of thing baffles me. How do you know how often the team practices different formations?
Let me tell know how I know.

19/6 - Spurs
24/6 - SU
27/6 - Norwhich
30/6 - Brighton
04/7 - Bournemouth
9/7 - Villa
13/7 Southampton
15/07 - Palace
20/ 07 - Chelsea

Listen to managers and players who say, you do not have time for tactics and formations when games are coming this thick and fast.

Most of the time it is about rest and getting back to playing.
 

Green_Red

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It's one defeat but the performances have been steadily declining since Bournemouth. I don't know what the primary reason is so I'm still reserving judgement. But I'm not encouraged by our seeming inability to put together a strong run of performances (results notwithstanding).

Has been happening for years and years already to be fair.
I can't stop thinking back to when Klopp was implementing the high energy high press at Liverpool. It took several dips in form due to fitness before it really became consistent. I wonder who our fitness coaches are.
 

Mainoldo

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Incredible amount of spin in this post. For a start, this is not the same team that came second. It's truly baffling that you would even suggest it. I think you need to look back at Mourinho's team sheets that season. There have been wholesale changes since then.

3 of our current starting XI got more than 20 appearances in the league that season and a further 2 got more than 15 appearances.

I don't know where you're getting the idea that the team that came second was good enough for the title. They never were and De Gea playing out of his skin earned them something like 10 extra points that season.

Also, Mourinho got fired because he threw his toys out of the pram and lost the dressing room. He didn't have to do that, he chose to so that's on him.
Quick question. Gathered it’s not the same team that finished second. Is it currently a better team or a worse team?

Not even trying to get to my point. I’m just pointing out a lot of people said Ole had a lot of work to do to improve that team that finished second and he’s currently doing a good job of doing so. So just wanted to know based on those points we can argue this team right now is better than that team that finished second?

If you follow what I’m trying to say?
 

Devil81

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We only have a hope of the top 4 because Leicester have won six of their last twenty games. Ten matchweeks ago, we trailed them by twelve points. They've handed it to us on a silver platter and we still need to gain on them while playing them away on the last day where they've had a week to rest. If we do get 4th, which is by no means guaranteed, it'll be because we were slightly less shit than the other clubs that would have been in contention. Any other year and 4th would have been out of our mathematic reach by now. In other words, our possibly getting 4th does not mean we've done well this season.
That's not true at all, there is still a very strong chance we could finish third. Even if Leicester hadn't collapsed Chelsea aren't that far ahead of us.
 

romufc

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Yeah if you think players somehow forget how to play 3 at the back and start from 0. Maybe we should stick to 3 at the back as player might have forgotten to play 4-2-3-1 as we played 3-5-2 this game.

Yeah comparing James and 3-5-2 is all same. Well done.
So are you saying Ole was right in his formation and team selection?
 

roonster09

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So are you saying Ole was right in his formation and team selection?
I said I would have stuck to 4-2-3-1, doesn't mean Ole was wrong. You win few games and you lose, doesn't mean everytime we lose/drop points, tactical instructions or selection was wrong. We had few excellent results with same formation and players against Chelsea and other teams too.

I wouldn't have played players like Bruno too, looks like our players are shattered and would have rested Bruno too along with AWB.
 

Mainoldo

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I can't stop thinking back to when Klopp was implementing the high energy high press at Liverpool. It took several dips in form due to fitness before it really became consistent. I wonder who our fitness coaches are.
Why was you wondering? Do we play high press?
 

romufc

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I said I would have stuck to 4-2-3-1, doesn't mean Ole was wrong. You win few games and you lose, doesn't mean everytime we lose/drop points, tactical instructions or selection was wrong. We had few excellent results with same formation and players against Chelsea and other teams too.

I wouldn't have played players like Bruno too, looks like our players are shattered and would have rested Bruno too along with AWB.
I just think Ole got it wrong this time. we dropped points against Spurs and Southampton, I did not question Ole then cause I could understand what he done.

I agree we have had excellent results. Like you mentioned, I would have rested AWB, maybe not Bruno because he is our only hope of creating anything.

Matic shields the back 4, why play him infront of a back 3? Fred and Mctominay would have been very energetic pressing Chelsea. We need Matic for the next 2 games.

AWB looks absolutely shattered, Maguire looks tired.

I play football, however good or fit you are, if you are fatigued, you will make sloppy mistakes. I don't think AWB, Maguire are bad players, they are tired.

Because of Covid, we have to travel to games on the day, so we went from london on thursday back to Manchester with Friday as recovery, then Saturday train prepare for the game and Sunday travel again.

All this travelling, is mentally tiring for players too. Some people may think this is an excuse but I think we are underestimating how tiring playing games is on players.
 

roonster09

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I just think Ole got it wrong this time. we dropped points against Spurs and Southampton, I did not question Ole then cause I could understand what he done.

I agree we have had excellent results. Like you mentioned, I would have rested AWB, maybe not Bruno because he is our only hope of creating anything.

Matic shields the back 4, why play him infront of a back 3? Fred and Mctominay would have been very energetic pressing Chelsea. We need Matic for the next 2 games.

AWB looks absolutely shattered, Maguire looks tired.

I play football, however good or fit you are, if you are fatigued, you will make sloppy mistakes. I don't think AWB, Maguire are bad players, they are tired.

Because of Covid, we have to travel to games on the day, so we went from london on thursday back to Manchester with Friday as recovery, then Saturday train prepare for the game and Sunday travel again.

All this travelling, is mentally tiring for players too. Some people may think this is an excuse but I think we are underestimating how tiring playing games is on players.
For me it's simple, this season we will make huge loses and we are not backed by oil money or some russian gangster, so this season top 4 is much more important than FA cup. In any other season I would have argued FA cup is important but this season after the Covid, we have to look at the financials which will have significant impact on our transfers. For that reason alone I would have rested even more players, Bruno, AWB, Maguire even Rashford.
 

90 + 5min

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You're damn right it's about him personally. A supposed legend defends the Glazers (after being against them as a player), lies to our fans, says Glazers INVESTED money in Man United, calls fans who sang against Glazers fake, calls fans not coming to the stadium fake etc. etc. If anyone else did this everybody would be up their throat. Why do you lower your standards now??

He's horrific because he always uses the same team, the same tactics and if the other manager as much as moves one player 10 meters on one side or the other he has no clue how to react. He has no clue about physical preparation, about lowering and raising the intensity of the team according to different parts of the year. He's a horrible horrible manager that won't have another job in any of the top 5 leagues once he fecks out of here, no doubt in my mind about that.

No I'm not gonna put the 'point obsession' aside. Points are literally what determines how good your season in the league is. Literally what you need to have more of than your opponent to be better than them. And what makes it worse is that all the other clubs aside from top two are literally falling apart around us. This is the worst Prem season in a long time and we're still fighting tooth and nail for a top 4 spot.

Situation under Mourinho became that toxic because he wasn't backed properly. He finished 2nd with THIS team more or less and didn't get any of his targets to improve upon that. I agree he had to go when he did, but it never should've gotten to that point in the first place.

Also don't give me that crap about 'takes time to fix and repair things'. As I said yesterday just a little more than 20 months ago being second was not good enough. 81 pts was not good enough. Being 20pts behind our city rivals was not good enough. We had a team good enough for the title according to our fans. What tf changed then?

Because according to our fans we got rid of a toxic manager, we got a club legend who has developed the best team spirit in years, our new manager recruited excellently and got rid of deadwood from the previous toxic manager. Following logic and thinking of our fans we have a better manager and a better squad than 20 months ago and better atmosphere than we've ever had since SAF left and we STILL have the worst season in 30 years. How is that possible, explain please? It's not because other teams are better, we had more pts with Mourinho at 6th couple years ago.

World of football is dominated by money. Every other league is being won 90% of the time by the team with most money, except EPL. We generate more money annually than any other club not named RM or Barca. We must have the standards in line with that. I don't buy the crap about rebuilds, doing it the right way, United way, United DNA etc. We have the money, stature and power to be winning Premier League titles in no more than 12 months from now.

There's no other industry in the world in which failure is excused this much, even welcomed. Organizations that have the conditions to be successful right away intentionally delaying it for some idiotic reasons. How do you think RM or Barcelona would react being 37 points behind each other, missing out on CL football?

THAT's how Ole took the club backwards. Things that weren't acceptable at any point in our history, let alone as recently as 2 years ago, are now welcomed and celebrated. The standards haven't been lowered, they don't exist anymore.
Oh my, where do I start. I was right. You personally hate him and then it is hard to see any positives.

About Glazer. So, he is in support of Glazer according to you. So what? He is, love it or not, the one who owns the club. To go against your owner is a big no. So what is he supposed to do? Print t-shirt saying " I hate Glazers"? As any bussinessmen they want to earn money. But we got to say they have invested alot. Look at our budget since they took over. Look at our spendings since they took over. They are not cheep. They invest. Solskjaer does what he thinks is right for the team, not what is right for you as a sensitive individual.

Using same team? Physical preperations? Reacting on other teams? Please, if you don't know anything about coaching don't talk about it. Us having coaching licence can see what he does, what he want to do and if it is going right or wrong way. Nobody is perfect but to come up with this is beyond me.

So, once again I ask you. Is Ranieri better manager then Ferguson because his titlewinning team won by more points than Ferguson? Is Liverpool, Chelsea, Liverpool, Leicester better sides than us in 90's or 2000? Points should be looked at in context. Not taken out just for fun sake and how it works for own cause.

When it comes to Mourinho, we can talk about it forever. He got backed. Not as he think he should be but he got. If it is right or wrong I can't tell. What I can tell is he got lot of players. Like vanGaal. And it didn't go that well. He got sacked because of his behavior towards end. Against everyone. And I can easly say that, despite that I like him and think it is shame that it didn't go well.

You are talking alot about standards. How long should a manager keeps his place before he gets sacked? What is the minimum a manager needs to do every year to have his job at Manchester United? And are you willing to sack manager every year/half year until they reach your expectation?
 

romufc

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For me it's simple, this season we will make huge loses and we are not backed by oil money or some russian gangster, so this season top 4 is much more important than FA cup. In any other season I would have argued FA cup is important but this season after the Covid, we have to look at the financials which will have significant impact on our transfers. For that reason alone I would have rested even more players, Bruno, AWB, Maguire even Rashford.
I agree, but whatever the case the players should be putting more of a fight.

The thing I do not completely agree with people is Ole is crap. After every loss or draw Ole is crap.

We do not have the depth in our squad. Chelsea can rotate their midfielders with similar quality

Kovacic, Kane, Jorginho, Mount, RLC, Barkley whereas United's midfield is different.

Matic, Pobga, Bruno - beyond that we look far off it. Fred is a a good player but he needs to be playing every game before he gets form.
 

Møllemanden

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I remember a time when United fans wanted Fergie out. What a load of BS that turned out to be. Football is going in the right direction for once at United. Eventually it's Oles responsibility when players aren't performing, and i'm sure he'll address that this summer.
 

Fletchageddon

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Our tactics and formation relies on high intensity. You can't keep intensity up without rest. Two days rest is not enough for us to play the way we do with our current squad depth. Bruno, Pogba, Rashford were all out on there feet. Williams, Maguire and Greenwood are playing through injuries. The squad is thin but it is not lacking commitment. Yesterday was a culmination of things that led to a bad day in the office. It's not a lacking of big game mentality. Chelsea weren't even that good, we were just shattered.
 

roonster09

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I agree, but whatever the case the players should be putting more of a fight.

The thing I do not completely agree with people is Ole is crap. After every loss or draw Ole is crap.

We do not have the depth in our squad. Chelsea can rotate their midfielders with similar quality

Kovacic, Kane, Jorginho, Mount, RLC, Barkley whereas United's midfield is different.

Matic, Pobga, Bruno - beyond that we look far off it. Fred is a a good player but he needs to be playing every game before he gets form.
Yeah out squad depth is very poor, which means Ole had to rely on first 11 all the time. One game he rotated vs Norwich and none of the played well enough to win a regular place. This means our first 11 played too many games in last 8-9 days.

I hope we address this in summer, "we don't need Grealish" "where will sancho play" should be put to bed, our squad depth is poor, I have 0 confidence in any of them replacing our attackers.

Solskajer should have played Fred a lot more though, instead of just relying on Matic.
 

Fletchageddon

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Matic, Pobga, Bruno - beyond that we look far off it. Fred is a a good player but he needs to be playing every game before he gets form.
Fred and McT are both off the pace now since the restart. Which is a shame since they were in great form before. They need to come in to the team and grab it by the scruff of the neck. They both seem a little tentative and that doesn't fly anymore.
 

Mainoldo

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For me it's simple, this season we will make huge loses and we are not backed by oil money or some russian gangster, so this season top 4 is much more important than FA cup. In any other season I would have argued FA cup is important but this season after the Covid, we have to look at the financials which will have significant impact on our transfers. For that reason alone I would have rested even more players, Bruno, AWB, Maguire even Rashford.
So isn’t this where Ed comes into play? I mean in Spain your Ed Woodward would have spoke to Ole and kindly indicated. Maybe you make your top 4 is your priority’hint’.
 

sugar_kane

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Still 100% back him and have done since the start (helps that he's one of my childhood heroes) despite getting very very worried and at times massively frustrated in the first half of this season.

One thing I'd like him and his staff to improve on is having a plan b when playing out from the back isn't working, too often we just try the same thing over and over when it isn't working (eg. against Chelsea yesterday)

It seems a bit puritanical at times to stick to our intended style resolutely, we need to accept sometimes we have to play a bit grubby to get a result. Liverpool certainly didn't seem to mind this season (and nor should they have)

I'll be gutted if we don't get CL next season but it shouldn't be the determining factor in whether we stick with our manager our not, and I don't believe it has been in the past either (correlation, rather than causation I would argue)

There are more than enough positives to continue into next season with what we're currently building.
 

romufc

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Yeah out squad depth is very poor, which means Ole had to rely on first 11 all the time. One game he rotated vs Norwich and none of the played well enough to win a regular place. This means our first 11 played too many games in last 8-9 days.

I hope we address this in summer, "we don't need Grealish" "where will sancho play" should be put to bed, our squad depth is poor, I have 0 confidence in any of them replacing our attackers.

Solskajer should have played Fred a lot more though, instead of just relying on Matic.
Agreed. Well, if fans still think we don't need them players, I am afraid they lack football knowledge. You cannot hope for players to stay fit. Even 1 injury could upset your entire front line. James, Perreira, Lingard are not even 50% of what our first 11 are.

I do think Fred should play when other teams have energy, he can get around the pitch quicker than Matic.
 

roonster09

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So isn’t this where Ed comes into play? I mean in Spain your Ed Woodward would have spoke to Ole and kindly indicated. Maybe you make your top 4 is your priority’hint’.
I don't know and if anyone says they know what was discussed, I wouldn't believe them either.
 

Mainoldo

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I don't know and if anyone says they know what was discussed, I wouldn't believe them either.
I didn’t ask for what you know I asked for what your thoughts were. We don’t know anything really. But we always have a lot to say.
 

roonster09

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I didn’t ask for what you know I asked for what your thoughts were. We don’t know anything really. But we always have a lot to say.
Didn't I say my thoughts (that top 4 is much bigger priority than FA cup) ? How would I know what Woodward thoughts are?
 

Superunknown

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I play football, however good or fit you are, if you are fatigued, you will make sloppy mistakes. I don't think AWB, Maguire are bad players, they are tired.

Because of Covid, we have to travel to games on the day, so we went from london on thursday back to Manchester with Friday as recovery, then Saturday train prepare for the game and Sunday travel again.

All this travelling, is mentally tiring for players too. Some people may think this is an excuse but I think we are underestimating how tiring playing games is on players.
Not trying to make excuses for our players or anything of the sort, but I think that this is a good point. It's not the usual structure that the players are used to and the amount of games we're playing in a short space of time was always going to lead to a dip somewhere. Several of our better players looked knackered in the last game and in the game beforehand. Fernandes, for example.

It's partly why so many where questioning here beforehand whether or not we should be resting key players for the West Ham game instead of playing them vs. Chelsea. In the end, those players didn't get much rest (if any at all) and we ended up with a bad result against Chelsea.

If this teaches Ole anything, it's that he has to "know" his squad better. There has to be players that should be jumping at the chance to come in and play in an FA Cup semi-final. It's a squad game, not a first 11 game anymore. It's hindsight, for sure, but there does need to be a bit of foresight from Ole, too. He should already be looking at his players and realising which ones look gassed. In any line of work, when you're knackered, you don't perform close to your best or optimum level. There's a level you can get away with, where you can slog it out and push through. I looked at our team yesterday and, yes the starting tactics and formation weren't great, but the important players just looked like they needed an extra couple of days of rest.

It's still a learning curve for Ole and I am behind him because he's our manager and I want him to do well. We hit a stumbling block yesterday and it would've been nice to get to the final. But, we'll see what happens against West Ham. If we lose that game and don't get a result against Leicester and don't make top 4, then he will deserve the criticism. I think that's fair. I hope that it doesn't come to that and we do get the results that we want.
 

JohnnyKills

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I don't have an issue with him playing a semi strong team. To me it was the formation which would never work with the players he had to bring in.

Unlike Keefy above, I think changing to a back 3 threw us off our game and put us on the back foot from the off, ceding the advantage to Chelsea when is we had stuck to our natural game we could have out played them.

I think you can play three CBs and a DM when you have 2 wing backs like Evra who are capable of driving the ball forward and adding to attack justifying the defensive additions. With William's and Wan Bissaka all you create is a back 5.

None of the midfielders are then capable of driving with the ball forwards meaning Fernandes, Rashford and James are completely cut off. With no attacker capable of holding the ball up it also means on the times the ball does go forward we cant retain possession because the gap is too big for support to get up.

It seemed starting Igahlo would have helped as he could have held the ball up but I would have stuck with our normal formation and just switched Lindelof for Ighalo. Maybe matic for mctominay although mctominay and fred have both looked rusty since returning.

What to do on the right is the bigger question. We should give up on James. To be useful in a counter attacking side you have to be more than just quick. You have to be dangerous otherwise you just breakdown the play and throw away one of the few opportunities you have.

In summary Ole did get it wrong yesterday but I think again it just highlights the need for a squad rather than great first 11. The drop off is awful after the first 11/12 players.

I have my doubts about Ole long term and would change for the right top class manager but we need to back him with multiple purchases this summer. Someone to compete with Shaw and Matic, push Lindelof onto the bench, a RW to come in straight away and a back up attacker like Grealish.
Think he deserves another year even if we don't get CL. He´s done a great job of the rebuild so far, so let him finish it.

Let´s see where we are in a year´s time. His contract is up in 2022 anyway if I'm not mistaken.
 

Massive Spanner

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Think he deserves another year even if we don't get CL. He´s done a great job of the rebuild so far, so let him finish it.

Let´s see where we are in a year´s time. His contract is up in 2022 anyway if I'm not mistaken.
He deserves another season regardless but if we go through another prolonged spell in the first half of the season like we did this season then he should be gone. He really needs to show he can push the team on and actually challenge for the title instead of trying to bundle over the line for top four.

Either way he will leave our next manager with a much better squad than he inherited which is a good thing. I just hope he can win something with this team (and a few additions, hopefully) himself.
 

Withnail

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Let me tell know how I know.

19/6 - Spurs
24/6 - SU
27/6 - Norwhich
30/6 - Brighton
04/7 - Bournemouth
9/7 - Villa
13/7 Southampton
15/07 - Palace
20/ 07 - Chelsea

Listen to managers and players who say, you do not have time for tactics and formations when games are coming this thick and fast.

Most of the time it is about rest and getting back to playing.
You're talking like they never played the system before though. These are professional footballers and are used to playing different formations. They didn't look much better or worse after we were forced to change things so I'm not sure we can put it down to that. They looked like they had less energy than Chelsea and were second best all over the pitch.
 

AshRK

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No. It is called poor management.

We are not Burley or a team from the bottom half playing Man City where we sit back defend and hope for the best.

We are Manutd playing Chelsea who are 1 point away from us and got absolutely battered off the park. It is naivety from the manager.

I know what, I will play Dan James regardless of his form now because it worked before? Dan James has done nothing since restart to even deserve a starting place.

I like Ole and I think he is done well but this is exactly what he needs to improve on. We are not the same United as before and he keeps saying that, so why go back to the same old tactics?

We have been playing well in the 4-2-3-1 formation. We had 2 days to practice this 5 at the back and it showed.

This is a team 1 point ahead of us and has lost more games that United have and we acted as if they are Barcelona.
But being flexible is important. On one hand people complain he uses the same tactics but then when has a plan B(which btw has worked in the past) people are like don't use it now because it is a boring tactic. It doesn't work like that.

I didn't have issues with the formation. Hindsight can be a funny thing and he could have rested Matic too but it doesn't work like that. Yesterday was a shit show for everyone involved and not just the manager. And then you have a head injury to one of your players and he was proactive in changing the formation in middle of the game but sadly our defender and de gea conceded at the worst possible time. Take 0-0 to the half and we could have started the game with a fresh energy but we were 1-0 down and then de gea decided to have another mare and conceded again at the worst possible time.

I am not making excuses for Ole as I myself constructively criticized him after the match but one cannot just put full blame on him. And what's also funny is before the match people (not pointing at you) were like who cares about FA cup are the same people bashing Ole. Get the Top 4 and do the best in europa.
 

AshRK

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Not trying to make excuses for our players or anything of the sort, but I think that this is a good point. It's not the usual structure that the players are used to and the amount of games we're playing in a short space of time was always going to lead to a dip somewhere. Several of our better players looked knackered in the last game and in the game beforehand. Fernandes, for example.

It's partly why so many where questioning here beforehand whether or not we should be resting key players for the West Ham game instead of playing them vs. Chelsea. In the end, those players didn't get much rest (if any at all) and we ended up with a bad result against Chelsea.

If this teaches Ole anything, it's that he has to "know" his squad better. There has to be players that should be jumping at the chance to come in and play in an FA Cup semi-final. It's a squad game, not a first 11 game anymore. It's hindsight, for sure, but there does need to be a bit of foresight from Ole, too. He should already be looking at his players and realising which ones look gassed. In any line of work, when you're knackered, you don't perform close to your best or optimum level. There's a level you can get away with, where you can slog it out and push through. I looked at our team yesterday and, yes the starting tactics and formation weren't great, but the important players just looked like they needed an extra couple of days of rest.

It's still a learning curve for Ole and I am behind him because he's our manager and I want him to do well. We hit a stumbling block yesterday and it would've been nice to get to the final. But, we'll see what happens against West Ham. If we lose that game and don't get a result against Leicester and don't make top 4, then he will deserve the criticism. I think that's fair. I hope that it doesn't come to that and we do get the results that we want.
But you cannot just make 11 whole changes to the team. First of all even if ole wants to do that he doesn't have players to change the whole team. People here are saying he should have rest Maguire but who should he replace him with considering Bailly himself is a walking disaster (as shown yesterday also with his injury). Awb yes he could have been rested but with shaw out and williams playing with one eye it would have been equally risky. And to ask fosu mensah start 2 games in 3 days after being out for ages could have backfired.

The fact is he did not start our best 11. He did use our bench players in Fred, Williams, James, Bailly but it did not work out. Like I said hindsight is funny and he could have dropped matic too and played Mctominay and could have started with Ighalo( I would have) but what's done is done. Ole didn't predict de gea will have a mare and neither he predicted Bailly will have a head injury. These things happen and we have lost games like these under sir alex too. So i don't understand why so much overreaction now.
 

Withnail

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Quick question. Gathered it’s not the same team that finished second. Is it currently a better team or a worse team?

Not even trying to get to my point. I’m just pointing out a lot of people said Ole had a lot of work to do to improve that team that finished second and he’s currently doing a good job of doing so. So just wanted to know based on those points we can argue this team right now is better than that team that finished second?

If you follow what I’m trying to say?
The first XI we have available right now is probably better, and certainly capable of playing the more attractive football.

Although, I'd rather have De Gea from that year than the current version and that is a huge difference.

However, in Jose's second year he had a better bench which is why the squad team needs strengthening.

It's a bit simplistic to couch it in terms of Ole improving a team that finished second, given the style of play is different, certain players don't fit that style and that others who played a significant number of league games were in decline i.e. Jones, Valencia, Mata, Lingard, Young.
 

welshwingwizard

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Think he deserves another year even if we don't get CL. He´s done a great job of the rebuild so far, so let him finish it.

Let´s see where we are in a year´s time. His contract is up in 2022 anyway if I'm not mistaken.
I do agree. He has grown over the season. Or he has become luckier which is half of being a top class manager. We need to back him in the market now. 3-5 players in depending on how many leave.

The only circumstances I would change is if a top class manager became available. If a player can be improved upon we should always seek to do so and that opinion holds for managers too.
 

Mainoldo

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Didn't I say my thoughts (that top 4 is much bigger priority than FA cup) ? How would I know what Woodward thoughts are?
I asked you should our CEO have the same thoughts as it was to do with our financial position and if so should he be making it be known to our manager?

It’s not a trick question.