Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Skåre Willoch]

This is perhaps the most relevant point to factor in before anybody decides they want Ole out.

Who are on these guys level? Who?

Frankly unless physically one of those two managers became available I wouldn’t even consider changing Ole and the positive direction we are clearly heading in.

Zidane, perhaps?

But I agree. I wouldn't change Ole for anyone this summer, really. I just don't see why we should even consider doing so. Even if any of the three managers mentioned become available, they'll need a season or two to get the team right, so we might as well let Ole finish what he's started. I also loathe Pep, Klopp is a scouse bastard, and Zidane is... a nice guy, I guess. Let them stay whereever they are. I have total faith that we'll challenge them all in a year or two anyway.

Ole shows a lot of promise, develops youth, plays attacking football, suits the club, and seems to be ruthless in getting rid of deadwood / a**holes. Also the players seem to love the guy, and I'm as excited for the future of Manchester United as I've ever been.

Onwards and upwards!

 

[dwd]

Stating we could be 10 points off the treble winners as some kind of achievement is frankly ridiculous in context.

 

[Rob Corona]

Also, not sure why you [Mainoldo] need a face to face conversation to dumb down your arguments, you do realise words have the same meaning when spoken or written right?

OR Mainoldo points out that displaying animated body language make the difference. Adding gesticulation and plenty of facial expressions to the conversation would convince you.

 

[Greck]

No it’s just the feckin most vital question to ask before you chose to sack a manager ffs

How can it not be pertinent?

Nobody has an answer, so why disregard or worse jeopardise all the progress we’ve undeniably made unless you have a really safe bet ready and willing to take over? The answer is you don’t - not in any walk of life or business would you commit to that risk without having a ready made candidate ready to step in.

Do you seriously think anyone is asking to upgrade Ole without having a candidate in mind? Personally think Poch would be the ideal upgrade at the end of the season. You're going to say some stuff about being unproven right, I come back with why he's more proven than Ole and why I think he's better, maybe you come back with Ole has started a project and is more suitable for us, we go back and forth for a while till we get tired and agree to disagree. It's easier to skip all of that and not engage.

 

[ILC]

Incredible amount of spin in this post. For a start, this is not the same team that came second. It's truly baffling that you would even suggest it. I think you need to look back at Mourinho's team sheets that season. There have been wholesale changes since then.

3 of our current starting XI got more than 20 appearances in the league that season and a further 2 got more than 15 appearances.

I don't know where you're getting the idea that the team that came second was good enough for the title. They never were and De Gea playing out of his skin earned them something like 10 extra points that season.

Also, Mourinho got fired because he threw his toys out of the pram and lost the dressing room. He didn't have to do that, he chose to so that's on him.

No spin, just what my fellow Utd fans have told me here and on social media.

I didn't mean it was exactly the same team, but similar in terms of quality. Even better maybe...

I got that idea from out fans' reaction to Jose saying 2nd place and 81 pts was an achievement. Nobody was happy with that, nobody was happy with 2nd place. Nobody was happy being 20pts behind our rivals. Then also according to our fans Ole recruited very well and also got rid of deadwood from Mourinho while not losing any key players either. Logical thinking tells you all that=better team, better manager, better atmosphere. So how come we're having such a bad season overall? Something doesn't add up.

Jose always throws his toys out of the pram, that's on him. But he also wasn't backed after that 2nd place while being scapegoated for anything that went wrong. Point of this is not me defending Mourinho, but pointing out the hypocrisy in terms of how he was treated and how Ole is treated and in terms of standards both of them were/are held to.

Oh my, where do I start. I was right. You personally hate him and then it is hard to see any positives.

About Glazer. So, he is in support of Glazer according to you. So what? He is, love it or not, the one who owns the club. To go against your owner is a big no. So what is he supposed to do? Print t-shirt saying " I hate Glazers"? As any bussinessmen they want to earn money. But we got to say they have invested alot. Look at our budget since they took over. Look at our spendings since they took over. They are not cheep. They invest. Solskjaer does what he thinks is right for the team, not what is right for you as a sensitive individual.

Using same team? Physical preperations? Reacting on other teams? Please, if you don't know anything about coaching don't talk about it. Us having coaching licence can see what he does, what he want to do and if it is going right or wrong way. Nobody is perfect but to come up with this is beyond me.

So, once again I ask you. Is Ranieri better manager then Ferguson because his titlewinning team won by more points than Ferguson? Is Liverpool, Chelsea, Liverpool, Leicester better sides than us in 90's or 2000? Points should be looked at in context. Not taken out just for fun sake and how it works for own cause.

When it comes to Mourinho, we can talk about it forever. He got backed. Not as he think he should be but he got. If it is right or wrong I can't tell. What I can tell is he got lot of players. Like vanGaal. And it didn't go that well. He got sacked because of his behavior towards end. Against everyone. And I can easly say that, despite that I like him and think it is shame that it didn't go well.

You are talking alot about standards. How long should a manager keeps his place before he gets sacked? What is the minimum a manager needs to do every year to have his job at Manchester United? And are you willing to sack manager every year/half year until they reach your expectation?

Quick few points because you keep dancing around the one question I asked you multiple times so there's no point really in going further.

- There's a big difference between openly supporting the leeches that own our football club and 'hating' on them publicly. Calling them your family is not 'best' for Man Utd. Lying that they invested money when they took more than 2 billion out of the club is not best for Utd. Spending Utd's own money and investing are worlds apart.

- I do know about coaching and what Ole's doing isn't it.

- I did use context. I compared two most recent Man Utd managers and ONLY Utd's point totals over the years, not other teams which is what you're doing. Even if we ignore the points total Ole is still win%-wise the worst United manager in PL history. Kind of an art form when you consider he's had two big unbeaten runs in 20 months and still manages to be the worst. He's also Cardiff's worst manager ever. And his main assistant is also the worst for Hull and another club, can't remember of the top of my head. Entire coaching staff consists of failed Cardiff coaches and guys from Australian league.

Those are the people that are supposed to take us back to the top hahahaha

- Mourinho got backed somewhat until the 2nd place. Then most certainly wasn't.

- There's no time limit on coaches. There's no limit on how many you hire and fire. The standard for Man Utd is winning titles. Stop putting Ole in this group that 'needs time'. Pep, Klopp or Allegri ca

Alex Ferguson did the highlighted bit and Keane did the rest so it's not just Ole that is the hypocrite right ?



Really so backing a manager to the tune of 350 million in 3 summer windows is not backing him and you have no idea of who he wanted, just the words of a bitter man ranting after getting sack, oh feck off would you.


Nov 86, AF takes over tries the rest of the season and decides nah not good enough, then tried his first efforts with the "kids" yup failed, then from 88 near breaks the transfer record each time with new signings and did not win the league till 93.

So yeah things take time to turn around, suppose if you were of age 1990, you would have wanted AF out so ? Well based on you're post here it would.

The bloke needs another window and the chance to get rid of some more of the deadwood he inherited and then he can be judge from Xmas onwards. Yes he made mistakes yesterday but its not like AF never made similar ones.

- Of course they are. Since when are SAF and Keane the standard for hypocrisy? Both were proper bastards in many ways. Is that supposed to make me feel better about Ole Glazer Solskjaer?

- That's less than 20% of our turnover. Of course it fecking wasn't enough. Not when you have City and Liverpool spending more than 40% of their turnovers. Look how that turned out for them.

Especially when you look at past 15 years of Glazers spending 150m less when being in CL. Instead of it being the opposite ffs. It's clear what their agenda is and what their goal is.

- Here we go again. "Greatest manager that ever lived did something 30 years ago so this failed Cardiff plonker must be on the same path." Also while we're at it, people lived in caves not that long ago, black people were slaves and women couldn't vote so how about we go back to that time too?

You think that's an argument in Ole's favor but it's anything but. 1) Times change and football has moved on. 2) Ole failed at Cardiff and Molde recently. SAF was hugely successful even before coming to Utd and won a European trophy vs RM. Not doing Ole any favors with things like this you know.

- No, he needs to be sacked. He has done nothing to prove he can take us back to winning PL and CL, no matter the time. He inherited a team which was unsuccessful by finishing 2nd. He then got rid of deadwood and recruited well and is having the worst season since Liverpool were last champions. And he needs more time for that? Your logic is as backwards as Ole took us in his 20 months here.

I'm willing to bet anyone here we will be even worse next season if he stays.

 

[Red Company]

but the really great managers make a team better than the sum of their parts.

We tried going down the route of hiring great managers. Mourinho managed a 2nd spot but 18 points behind the leader. He should’ve ended worse off but he managed to make them perform ‘better than the sum of their parts’.

Ole did that too. We somehow managed to remain a fighting distance off top 4 this season despite losing our best players to injury for long periods.

Then, as soon as he got to January and was able to bring in Bruno, his system was evident to see for everyone because he finally had players coming around to his philosophies and Bruno literally fitted right into the system from the get go.

Hence I think injuries and lack of depth have been the main reasons we suffered this season. Not Ole or his potential or his system/style.

Even against Chelsea, he only took the risk of dropping Martial & Pogba from our main starting 11. Plus Shaw, but he was unavailable due to injury. This only indicates that he doesn’t trust our fringe players one bit and was more contempt playing our starters, some of whom might have benefitted from a break.

Until we have a full squad, no offence, but none of us have enough knowledge to judge Ole factually and completely, as yet. Too early.

You also mentioned that Ole doesn’t have the potential to beat Pep or Klopp. I find that to be subjectively unreasonable. Firstly, Ole showed enough tactical acumen to have us play good games against these managers when given the chances. Most of these games resulted in wins (3 against city and a huge draw against Liverpool when nobody else seemed to be able to slow them down). Secondly, we got these results while our best players were injured.

So again I’d like to repeat my point, we can not judge Ole until we give him a proper squad to go and tackle the league with, for an entire season. In my opinion, he’s already done really well for a rookie manager, that too in the PL, with the injuries we’ve dealt with, which led us to playing incompetent players (who are barely good enough for any of the other top 10 teams, let alone a club of our stature).

 

[Withnail]

Like that question wasn't asked with the sole intention of shooting down whatever was suggested. Poch for example would also be a very valid candidate. One can disagree without going out of their way to completely discredit the candidate. That kind of response is why no one answers unless they want to spend the following 3 pages debating it. I for one diagree but wouldn't fault anyone who wants to give Ole time

The question was asked because you were talking about nameless elite managers who can improve us.

It's perfectly fine to say get rid and get someone decent in when the manager is floundering and results are bad.

However, if you're advocating for a managerial change at this stage I think you should at least know who you want and why.

If you don't want to debate the merits of the replacement that's fine but while Poch is a good manager, I don't see the evidence that he is capable of taking on the top clubs.

I'm saying he's unproven, I'm not completely discrediting him.

 

[Withnail]

Stating we could be 10 points off the treble winners as some kind of achievement is frankly ridiculous in context.

I think you missed the point of that post. It was a case of bringing up another points total as an example of how comparing points totals from different years is silly.

 

[RUCK4444]

Stating we could be 10 points off the treble winners as some kind of achievement is frankly ridiculous in context.

It depends what narrative you try to fit it in I suppose.

I don’t think this thread should have been bumped until the end of the season really.

Do you seriously think anyone is asking to upgrade Ole without having a candidate in mind? Personally think Poch would be the ideal upgrade at the end of the season. You're going to say some stuff about being unproven right, I come back with why he's more proven than Ole and why I think he's better, maybe you come back with Ole has started a project and is more suitable for us, we go back and forth for a while till we get tired and agree to disagree. It's easier to skip all of that and not engage.

I second that suggestion bud

I bet Poch is desperate for the call. One does wonder why he’s not been snapped up yet.

 

[anant]

No spin, just what my fellow Utd fans have told me here and on social media.

I didn't mean it was exactly the same team, but similar in terms of quality. Even better maybe...

I got that idea from out fans' reaction to Jose saying 2nd place and 81 pts was an achievement. Nobody was happy with that, nobody was happy with 2nd place. Nobody was happy being 20pts behind our rivals. Then also according to our fans Ole recruited very well and also got rid of deadwood from Mourinho while not losing any key players either. Logical thinking tells you all that=better team, better manager, better atmosphere. So how come we're having such a bad season overall? Something doesn't add up.

Jose always throws his toys out of the pram, that's on him. But he also wasn't backed after that 2nd place while being scapegoated for anything that went wrong. Point of this is not me defending Mourinho, but pointing out the hypocrisy in terms of how he was treated and how Ole is treated and in terms of standards both of them were/are held to.


Quick few points because you keep dancing around the one question I asked you multiple times so there's no point really in going further.

- There's a big difference between openly supporting the leeches that own our football club and 'hating' on them publicly. Calling them your family is not 'best' for Man Utd. Lying that they invested money when they took more than 2 billion out of the club is not best for Utd. Spending Utd's own money and investing are worlds apart.

- I do know about coaching and what Ole's doing isn't it.

- I did use context. I compared two most recent Man Utd managers and ONLY Utd's point totals over the years, not other teams which is what you're doing. Even if we ignore the points total Ole is still win%-wise the worst United manager in PL history. Kind of an art form when you consider he's had two big unbeaten runs in 20 months and still manages to be the worst. He's also Cardiff's worst manager ever. And his main assistant is also the worst for Hull and another club, can't remember of the top of my head. Entire coaching staff consists of failed Cardiff coaches and guys from Australian league.

Those are the people that are supposed to take us back to the top hahahaha

- Mourinho got backed somewhat until the 2nd place. Then most certainly wasn't.

- There's no time limit on coaches. There's no limit on how many you hire and fire. The standard for Man Utd is winning titles. Stop putting Ole in this group that 'needs time'. Pep, Klopp or Allegri ca


- Of course they are. Since when are SAF and Keane the standard for hypocrisy? Both were proper bastards in many ways. Is that supposed to make me feel better about Ole Glazer Solskjaer?

- That's less than 20% of our turnover. Of course it fecking wasn't enough. Not when you have City and Liverpool spending more than 40% of their turnovers. Look how that turned out for them.

Especially when you look at past 15 years of Glazers spending 150m less when being in CL. Instead of it being the opposite ffs. It's clear what their agenda is and what their goal is.

- Here we go again. "Greatest manager that ever lived did something 30 years ago so this failed Cardiff plonker must be on the same path." Also while we're at it, people lived in caves not that long ago, black people were slaves and women couldn't vote so how about we go back to that time too?

You think that's an argument in Ole's favor but it's anything but. 1) Times change and football has moved on. 2) Ole failed at Cardiff and Molde recently. SAF was hugely successful even before coming to Utd and won a European trophy vs RM. Not doing Ole any favors with things like this you know.

- No, he needs to be sacked. He has done nothing to prove he can take us back to winning PL and CL, no matter the time. He inherited a team which was unsuccessful by finishing 2nd. He then got rid of deadwood and recruited well and is having the worst season since Liverpool were last champions. And he needs more time for that? Your logic is as backwards as Ole took us in his 20 months here.

I'm willing to bet anyone here we will be even worse next season if he stays.

Would you like to fact check the post? Rants and all is fine, but most of the claims are easily verifiable and I can point out atleast 3 factually incorrect things in that post and I've read just one point at random

 

[Withnail]

No spin, just what my fellow Utd fans have told me here and on social media.

I didn't mean it was exactly the same team, but similar in terms of quality. Even better maybe...

I got that idea from out fans' reaction to Jose saying 2nd place and 81 pts was an achievement. Nobody was happy with that, nobody was happy with 2nd place. Nobody was happy being 20pts behind our rivals. Then also according to our fans Ole recruited very well and also got rid of deadwood from Mourinho while not losing any key players either. Logical thinking tells you all that=better team, better manager, better atmosphere. So how come we're having such a bad season overall? Something doesn't add up.

Jose always throws his toys out of the pram, that's on him. But he also wasn't backed after that 2nd place while being scapegoated for anything that went wrong. Point of this is not me defending Mourinho, but pointing out the hypocrisy in terms of how he was treated and how Ole is treated and in terms of standards both of them were/are held to.

So you're saying you're whole rant is a reaction against various people who've given various opinions on a variety of topics? No wonder it was all over the place.

On Jose, he was sacked because he lost the dressing room and performances were going down the drain. Ole's team are improving, the players are playing well, scoring goals, and enjoying themselves. Do you see the difference?

Not losing any key players? Around half of Mourinho's first team from 2017/2018 are gone. I'd say they were key to the team coming second no?

The current squad is light and we don't have much of a bench. We were also without 5 of the current first team for much of the season; 3 through injury, Bruno wasn't at the club yet and Greenwood wasn't ready.

- No, he needs to be sacked. He has done nothing to prove he can take us back to winning PL and CL, no matter the time. He inherited a team which was unsuccessful by finishing 2nd. He then got rid of deadwood and recruited well and is having the worst season since Liverpool were last champions. And he needs more time for that? Your logic is as backwards as Ole took us in his 20 months here.

I'm willing to bet anyone here we will be even worse next season if he stays.

I've just spotted this. If you're not WUMMING I just don't know anymore

 

[rotherham_red]

Stating we could be 10 points off the treble winners as some kind of achievement is frankly ridiculous in context.

Almost as ridiculous as saying we have less points than Jose in his first season, despite the prospect of finishing 3 positions being very much real and present...

 

[MattofManchester]

I don't see why Mourinho's second season was deemed a failure at the time. Was it the brand of football? It was the first time we showed even a modicum of stability and consistency since Sir Alex. We'd been dismal before that, so I'm not sure if people suddenly expected us to win the league?
Saying we finished 20 odd points behind City makes it sound worse than it is. We finished with 81 points, which, before City and Liverpool's utter dominance, would have run a title winner closer in terms of a challenge.
But we were dealing with what arguably was the most dominant League win in the last decade, against what is probably still the greatest Premier League squad of the last decade.
Finishing second was a marked improvement on what we were before. We all know how dismal it feels to finish 6th.


As to the present day and the point of Ole, he deserves the full 3 years he wanted for what he's done so far. He's brought stability to the transfers(which still appear suspect but not as much), and he's got the players on board and potentially got us back in the CL. He's shown potential. I think CL next season will show if he can hack it at the top level with the very best and do it consistently. He's still very tactically odd and lacking sometimes, so I'm hoping he improves in a major way because I want him to be a massive success while silencing any doubts anybody has.

What he did at Cardiff or Molde is largely irrelevant at this stage. He's not a potential Manchester United managerial candidate, he IS the Manchester United manager. So, it's just best to back him and see how he goes. If we sack him now, we're back to square one again with a new manager undoing all the stability we've redeveloped.

It needs to be understood that we're a top club in name but not in quality as much as we once were, and building back to that takes time.

 

[Steven-UK]

As to the present day and the point of Ole, he deserves the full 3 years he wanted for what he's done so far.

And what exactly 'has' he 'done' so far?..... Sunday proved he is way out of his depth. To pass up the chance of an FA cup final, and possible cup that way, is simply unforgivable. We got destroyed by a very average Chelsea team in a semi final. We have had a couple of games since the lock-down ended when (again) we thought "we have turned the corner", when in reality we have been utterly average for the last couple of games.

 

[dwd]

Almost as ridiculous as saying we have less points than Jose in his first season, despite the prospect of finishing 3 positions being very much real and present...

I think you meant ahead? But yes, both ridiculous.

 

[Bobcat]

No spin, just what my fellow Utd fans have told me here and on social media.

I didn't mean it was exactly the same team, but similar in terms of quality. Even better maybe...

I got that idea from out fans' reaction to Jose saying 2nd place and 81 pts was an achievement. Nobody was happy with that, nobody was happy with 2nd place. Nobody was happy being 20pts behind our rivals. Then also according to our fans Ole recruited very well and also got rid of deadwood from Mourinho while not losing any key players either. Logical thinking tells you all that=better team, better manager, better atmosphere. So how come we're having such a bad season overall? Something doesn't add up.

Jose always throws his toys out of the pram, that's on him. But he also wasn't backed after that 2nd place while being scapegoated for anything that went wrong. Point of this is not me defending Mourinho, but pointing out the hypocrisy in terms of how he was treated and how Ole is treated and in terms of standards both of them were/are held to.


Quick few points because you keep dancing around the one question I asked you multiple times so there's no point really in going further.

- There's a big difference between openly supporting the leeches that own our football club and 'hating' on them publicly. Calling them your family is not 'best' for Man Utd. Lying that they invested money when they took more than 2 billion out of the club is not best for Utd. Spending Utd's own money and investing are worlds apart.

- I do know about coaching and what Ole's doing isn't it.

- I did use context. I compared two most recent Man Utd managers and ONLY Utd's point totals over the years, not other teams which is what you're doing. Even if we ignore the points total Ole is still win%-wise the worst United manager in PL history. Kind of an art form when you consider he's had two big unbeaten runs in 20 months and still manages to be the worst. He's also Cardiff's worst manager ever. And his main assistant is also the worst for Hull and another club, can't remember of the top of my head. Entire coaching staff consists of failed Cardiff coaches and guys from Australian league.

Those are the people that are supposed to take us back to the top hahahaha

- Mourinho got backed somewhat until the 2nd place. Then most certainly wasn't.

- There's no time limit on coaches. There's no limit on how many you hire and fire. The standard for Man Utd is winning titles. Stop putting Ole in this group that 'needs time'. Pep, Klopp or Allegri ca


- Of course they are. Since when are SAF and Keane the standard for hypocrisy? Both were proper bastards in many ways. Is that supposed to make me feel better about Ole Glazer Solskjaer?

- That's less than 20% of our turnover. Of course it fecking wasn't enough. Not when you have City and Liverpool spending more than 40% of their turnovers. Look how that turned out for them.

Especially when you look at past 15 years of Glazers spending 150m less when being in CL. Instead of it being the opposite ffs. It's clear what their agenda is and what their goal is.

- Here we go again. "Greatest manager that ever lived did something 30 years ago so this failed Cardiff plonker must be on the same path." Also while we're at it, people lived in caves not that long ago, black people were slaves and women couldn't vote so how about we go back to that time too?

You think that's an argument in Ole's favor but it's anything but. 1) Times change and football has moved on. 2) Ole failed at Cardiff and Molde recently. SAF was hugely successful even before coming to Utd and won a European trophy vs RM. Not doing Ole any favors with things like this you know.

- No, he needs to be sacked. He has done nothing to prove he can take us back to winning PL and CL, no matter the time. He inherited a team which was unsuccessful by finishing 2nd. He then got rid of deadwood and recruited well and is having the worst season since Liverpool were last champions. And he needs more time for that? Your logic is as backwards as Ole took us in his 20 months here.

I'm willing to bet anyone here we will be even worse next season if he stays.

Failed Cardiff plonker Thats a new one.

And how did he fail at Molde? He won them their first ever league title and had them punching well above their weight class in the EL

 

[Withnail]

And what exactly 'has' he 'done' so far?..... Sunday proved he is way out of his depth. To pass up the chance of an FA cup final, and possible cup that way, is simply unforgivable. We got destroyed by a very average Chelsea team in a semi final. We have had a couple of games since the lock-down ended when (again) we thought "we have turned the corner", when in reality we have been utterly average for the last couple of games.

Sunday proved nothing.

We had a bad day against a team we've beaten three times out of four who, during a punishing schedule, had two days more rest than us, while we had an eye towards West ham and Leicester.

Are you saying you'd take an FA Cup final over CL football next year?

 

[Mainoldo]

I don't see why Mourinho's second season was deemed a failure at the time. Was it the brand of football? It was the first time we showed even a modicum of stability and consistency since Sir Alex. We'd been dismal before that, so I'm not sure if people suddenly expected us to win the league?
Saying we finished 20 odd points behind City makes it sound worse than it is. We finished with 81 points, which, before City and Liverpool's utter dominance, would have run a title winner closer in terms of a challenge.
But we were dealing with what arguably was the most dominant League win in the last decade, against what is probably still the greatest Premier League squad of the last decade.
Finishing second was a marked improvement on what we were before. We all know how dismal it feels to finish 6th.


As to the present day and the point of Ole, he deserves the full 3 years he wanted for what he's done so far. He's brought stability to the transfers(which still appear suspect but not as much), and he's got the players on board and potentially got us back in the CL. He's shown potential. I think CL next season will show if he can hack it at the top level with the very best and do it consistently. He's still very tactically odd and lacking sometimes, so I'm hoping he improves in a major way because I want him to be a massive success while silencing any doubts anybody has.

What he did at Cardiff or Molde is largely irrelevant at this stage. He's not a potential Manchester United managerial candidate, he IS the Manchester United manager. So, it's just best to back him and see how he goes. If we sack him now, we're back to square one again with a new manager undoing all the stability we've redeveloped.

It needs to be understood that we're a top club in name but not in quality as much as we once were, and building back to that takes time.

Sensible post and atleast someone gets why you can consider Mourinho a successful in his time at the club. Obviously before it was obvious he had to go. However I still feel it’s important to learn from Mourinho and not let managers stay long enough to undo their hard work. Ole might deserve another season but if he produces another uninspiring full season like this one we’ve just wasted another season of progression.

 

[Zen86]

Comparing points totals between seasons is stupid. It completely ignores the many, many variables that make up each season. It’s an overly simplistic form of comparison used by idiots to compensate for a lack of insight. You may as well make the same comparisons between different leagues.

 

[ILC]

Would you like to fact check the post? Rants and all is fine, but most of the claims are easily verifiable and I can point out atleast 3 factually incorrect things in that post and I've read just one point at random

Sure, let me hear it.

So you're saying you're whole rant is a reaction against various people who've given various opinions on a variety of topics? No wonder it was all over the place.

On Jose, he was sacked because he lost the dressing room and performances were going down the drain. Ole's team are improving, the players are playing well, scoring goals, and enjoying themselves. Do you see the difference?

Not losing any key players? Around half of Mourinho's first team from 2017/2018 are gone. I'd say they were key to the team coming second no?

The current squad is light and we don't have much of a bench. We were also without 5 of the current first team for much of the season; 3 through injury, Bruno wasn't at the club yet and Greenwood wasn't ready.

No, my 'rant' is based on facts. You can't take anything I said and say it wasn't true. You can cry, but you can't say it's not true.

Did people lose their shit when Mourinho said 2nd place was an achievement? Yes they did.
Did people here, on social media, and especially former players of the club (Neville, Scholes, Ferdinand and Keane) say that 2nd place was not enough and standard for United is winning titles and nothing else? Yes they did.
Does any #OleIN fan say he recruited very well and hit on all his signings? Yes.
Does any #OleIN fan say he got rid of deadwood from Mourinho? Yes.
Does any #OleIN fan say they enjoy the team more because the atmosphere is so good? Yes.

So where's the problem then? Why are we having such a poor season even with all the other competitors from top 6 or whatever having even worse seasons?

No I don't see the difference because I'm not a fickle idiot who looks at most recent run of form and judges only on that. This is not a cup competition, it's a league played over 10 months and it's impossible not to get the full picture of a team over such a long period. Ole can't get the credit just for this recent run, but be absolved for the horrific first half like it never happened or someone else was in charge.

So now Lukaku, Alexis, Smalling, Fellaini etc. were key players? Why are they considered deadwood then? Why did people celebrate their exits? Their sales/exits are literally what Ole is lauded for.

Yeah no shit the current squad is light. Who approved so many outgoing transfers without replacements? Who can't shut up about how he's incredibly happy with the squad, how they're an amazing group of individuals? Who played Pogba 90mins vs Rochdale and lost him for a season? Who played Rashford with a broken back? Give me a break please. And no, Ole wasn't helpless, nobody forced him to sell those players without replacement, he wanted them gone. Nobody forced him to say he's happy, nobody forced him to risk Pogba and Rashford etc.

He's a grown man in charge of the biggest club in the world. He said multiple times how he has the final word. He bears consequences for the good and bad.

I've just spotted this. If you're not WUMMING I just don't know anymore

I promise you I'm not. I didn't make up anything there. All of those things happened. Ole was celebrated for all those things. And Ole is the sole owner of the worst win% in Man Utd's EPL history. None of your cries and laughs are gonna change the facts.

Failed Cardiff plonker Thats a new one.

And how did he fail at Molde? He won them their first ever league title and had them punching well above their weight class in the EL

I said failed recently at Molde.

His last trophy was in 2013. 7 years ago. When he left Molde for Cardiff, they won the league. When he came back, they didn't win the league again until he left for United.

Sunday proved nothing.

We had a bad day against a team we've beaten three times out of four who, during a punishing schedule, had two days more rest than us, while we had an eye towards West ham and Leicester.

Are you saying you'd take an FA Cup final over CL football next year?

OK, we had an eye towards WH and LC. Humor me with this please - what's going to be the excuse if we still don't make the CL with everything going in our favor? Let's say we draw or win against WH and then lose to LC on the last day and get eliminated in EL. What then?

 

[Denis' cuff]

Extend his contract.

 

[Mainoldo]

Extend his contract.

Don’t take p! I nearly had a heart attack as I know that’s what’s coming next.

 

[lysglimt]

Sure, let me hear it.


No, my 'rant' is based on facts. You can't take anything I said and say it wasn't true. You can cry, but you can't say it's not true.

Did people lose their shit when Mourinho said 2nd place was an achievement? Yes they did.
Did people here, on social media, and especially former players of the club (Neville, Scholes, Ferdinand and Keane) say that 2nd place was not enough and standard for United is winning titles and nothing else? Yes they did.
Does any #OleIN fan say he recruited very well and hit on all his signings? Yes.
Does any #OleIN fan say he got rid of deadwood from Mourinho? Yes.
Does any #OleIN fan say they enjoy the team more because the atmosphere is so good? Yes.

So where's the problem then? Why are we having such a poor season even with all the other competitors from top 6 or whatever having even worse seasons?

No I don't see the difference because I'm not a fickle idiot who looks at most recent run of form and judges only on that. This is not a cup competition, it's a league played over 10 months and it's impossible not to get the full picture of a team over such a long period. Ole can't get the credit just for this recent run, but be absolved for the horrific first half like it never happened or someone else was in charge.

So now Lukaku, Alexis, Smalling, Fellaini etc. were key players? Why are they considered deadwood then? Why did people celebrate their exits? Their sales/exits are literally what Ole is lauded for.

Yeah no shit the current squad is light. Who approved so many outgoing transfers without replacements? Who can't shut up about how he's incredibly happy with the squad, how they're an amazing group of individuals? Who played Pogba 90mins vs Rochdale and lost him for a season? Who played Rashford with a broken back? Give me a break please. And no, Ole wasn't helpless, nobody forced him to sell those players without replacement, he wanted them gone. Nobody forced him to say he's happy, nobody forced him to risk Pogba and Rashford etc.

He's a grown man in charge of the biggest club in the world. He said multiple times how he has the final word. He bears consequences for the good and bad.


I promise you I'm not. I didn't make up anything there. All of those things happened. Ole was celebrated for all those things. And Ole is the sole owner of the worst win% in Man Utd's EPL history. None of your cries and laughs are gonna change the facts.


I said failed recently at Molde.

His last trophy was in 2013. 7 years ago. When he left Molde for Cardiff, they won the league. When he came back, they didn't win the league again until he left for United.


OK, we had an eye towards WH and LC. Humor me with this please - what's going to be the excuse if we still don't make the CL with everything going in our favor? Let's say we draw or win against WH and then lose to LC on the last day and get eliminated in EL. What then?

I really hope you stay a newbie for a long time

 

[AshRK]

Jose fan boys still exist here. Get over with, he is gone and he failed to take the club to the next level. If ole finishes in top 4, he deserves another chance absolutely ( I feel he will stay irrespective of CL position) but if we are in the same position next season then we can look for alternatives. Right now his critics can keep on crying and asking for him to be sacked but that ain't happening.

 

[Mainoldo]

Jose fan boys still exist here. Get over with, he is gone and he failed to take the club to the next level. If ole finishes in top 4, he deserves another chance absolutely ( I feel he will stay irrespective of CL position) but if we are in the same position next season then we can look for alternatives. Right now his critics can keep on crying and asking for him to be sacked but that ain't happening.

Who’s a Jose fanboy in here?

 

[Withnail]

Sure, let me hear it.


No, my 'rant' is based on facts. You can't take anything I said and say it wasn't true. You can cry, but you can't say it's not true.

Did people lose their shit when Mourinho said 2nd place was an achievement? Yes they did.
Did people here, on social media, and especially former players of the club (Neville, Scholes, Ferdinand and Keane) say that 2nd place was not enough and standard for United is winning titles and nothing else? Yes they did.
Does any #OleIN fan say he recruited very well and hit on all his signings? Yes.
Does any #OleIN fan say he got rid of deadwood from Mourinho? Yes.
Does any #OleIN fan say they enjoy the team more because the atmosphere is so good? Yes.

So where's the problem then? Why are we having such a poor season even with all the other competitors from top 6 or whatever having even worse seasons?

No I don't see the difference because I'm not a fickle idiot who looks at most recent run of form and judges only on that. This is not a cup competition, it's a league played over 10 months and it's impossible not to get the full picture of a team over such a long period. Ole can't get the credit just for this recent run, but be absolved for the horrific first half like it never happened or someone else was in charge.

So now Lukaku, Alexis, Smalling, Fellaini etc. were key players? Why are they considered deadwood then? Why did people celebrate their exits? Their sales/exits are literally what Ole is lauded for.

Yeah no shit the current squad is light. Who approved so many outgoing transfers without replacements? Who can't shut up about how he's incredibly happy with the squad, how they're an amazing group of individuals? Who played Pogba 90mins vs Rochdale and lost him for a season? Who played Rashford with a broken back? Give me a break please. And no, Ole wasn't helpless, nobody forced him to sell those players without replacement, he wanted them gone. Nobody forced him to say he's happy, nobody forced him to risk Pogba and Rashford etc.

He's a grown man in charge of the biggest club in the world. He said multiple times how he has the final word. He bears consequences for the good and bad.


I promise you I'm not. I didn't make up anything there. All of those things happened. Ole was celebrated for all those things. And Ole is the sole owner of the worst win% in Man Utd's EPL history. None of your cries and laughs are gonna change the facts.


I said failed recently at Molde.

His last trophy was in 2013. 7 years ago. When he left Molde for Cardiff, they won the league. When he came back, they didn't win the league again until he left for United.


OK, we had an eye towards WH and LC. Humor me with this please - what's going to be the excuse if we still don't make the CL with everything going in our favor? Let's say we draw or win against WH and then lose to LC on the last day and get eliminated in EL. What then?

You seem a little angry and more than a little irrational.

I don't see any understanding of nuance and little sense of perspective in your analysis and I can tell I'm not going to change your mind.

I'm also not in the business of making excuses for things that haven't happened yet and I'm not sure why you would expect me to do that.

Good luck.

 

[rotherham_red]

I think you meant ahead? But yes, both ridiculous.

Yes indeed, I meant ahead.

 

[roonster09]

I really hope you stay a newbie for a long time

You are very generous, why can't you hope for a ban

 

[AshRK]

Who’s a Jose fanboy in here?

Don't worry I didn't say you were one. Look at the comment from that newbie, still defending Jose's tenure and getting angry that people abused Jose for finishing 2nd. No people abused jose for his stupid rant after sevilla, people abused Jose for alienating our talented players but protecting the likes of fellaini. People abuse Jose for his 18-19 season where he had a chance to learn from his past mistakes and take this club forward. Honestly if he acted like a sane guy without making everything about himself he would have still remained here and we would have even finished in top 4 last season.

Ole may also be regarded as a failure but he could also be a success. No one knows, which is why people bringing Jose in their argument are just making a fool of themselves. He is gone, get over with it.

 

[Bobcat]

Sure, let me hear it.


No, my 'rant' is based on facts. You can't take anything I said and say it wasn't true. You can cry, but you can't say it's not true.

Did people lose their shit when Mourinho said 2nd place was an achievement? Yes they did.
Did people here, on social media, and especially former players of the club (Neville, Scholes, Ferdinand and Keane) say that 2nd place was not enough and standard for United is winning titles and nothing else? Yes they did.
Does any #OleIN fan say he recruited very well and hit on all his signings? Yes.
Does any #OleIN fan say he got rid of deadwood from Mourinho? Yes.
Does any #OleIN fan say they enjoy the team more because the atmosphere is so good? Yes.

So where's the problem then? Why are we having such a poor season even with all the other competitors from top 6 or whatever having even worse seasons?

No I don't see the difference because I'm not a fickle idiot who looks at most recent run of form and judges only on that. This is not a cup competition, it's a league played over 10 months and it's impossible not to get the full picture of a team over such a long period. Ole can't get the credit just for this recent run, but be absolved for the horrific first half like it never happened or someone else was in charge.

So now Lukaku, Alexis, Smalling, Fellaini etc. were key players? Why are they considered deadwood then? Why did people celebrate their exits? Their sales/exits are literally what Ole is lauded for.

Yeah no shit the current squad is light. Who approved so many outgoing transfers without replacements? Who can't shut up about how he's incredibly happy with the squad, how they're an amazing group of individuals? Who played Pogba 90mins vs Rochdale and lost him for a season? Who played Rashford with a broken back? Give me a break please. And no, Ole wasn't helpless, nobody forced him to sell those players without replacement, he wanted them gone. Nobody forced him to say he's happy, nobody forced him to risk Pogba and Rashford etc.

He's a grown man in charge of the biggest club in the world. He said multiple times how he has the final word. He bears consequences for the good and bad.


I promise you I'm not. I didn't make up anything there. All of those things happened. Ole was celebrated for all those things. And Ole is the sole owner of the worst win% in Man Utd's EPL history. None of your cries and laughs are gonna change the facts.


I said failed recently at Molde.

His last trophy was in 2013. 7 years ago. When he left Molde for Cardiff, they won the league. When he came back, they didn't win the league again until he left for United.


OK, we had an eye towards WH and LC. Humor me with this please - what's going to be the excuse if we still don't make the CL with everything going in our favor? Let's say we draw or win against WH and then lose to LC on the last day and get eliminated in EL. What then?

You sound a bit unhinged. Calm down

Jose did not get sacked because he finished 2nd. He got sacked because he had a complete meltdown. And IMO, 2nd was the best that squad could deliver

Clearing of deadwood left us thin yes, but it was the right thing to do and i am assuming the board wanted to lighten the wage bill a bit before we bought in new players. Our wage bill is only slightly less than Citys, which is eye watering when you consider the disrepancy in quality and the fact that we pay rubbish like Lindgard 100k/week to sit on his arse

People are happy because we are looking to moving in the right direction. We have a young first XI, tranfers have been really good

PS: Oles PPG is better than Moyes and better than Van Gaal if you include his games as caretaker.

And you really think he wilfully and with internt had two of his best players injured? Thats insane

 

[Withnail]

You are very generous, why can't you hope for a ban

Not sure it matters too much, he only seems to come on here when things aren't going well. Hopefully, we can beat West Ham and bin this thread.

Dec 3rd 2019 (Just before we beat Tottenham and City):

This should be framed as the first post of Allegri's thread once he's announced as our coach. Absolutely fantastic.

Nothing at all to say during our decent run.

14th July 2020 (Day after we drop pts to Southampton):

Color me surprised we're choking again when it all matters.

Ole didn't rotate, players are exhausted and now he can't rotate because every game is do or die.

If he doesn't qualify for CL he must go, no ifs and buts about it.

 

[roonster09]

Not sure it matters too much, he only seems to come on here when things aren't going well.

Dec 3rd 2019 (Just before we beat Tottenham and City):

Always good to see few coming out of caves only when we drop points or lose games.

 

[Mainoldo]

Don't worry I didn't say you were one. Look at the comment from that newbie, still defending Jose's tenure and getting angry that people abused Jose for finishing 2nd. No people abused jose for his stupid rant after sevilla, people abused Jose for alienating our talented players but protecting the likes of fellaini. People abuse Jose for his 18-19 season where he had a chance to learn from his past mistakes and take this club forward. Honestly if he acted like a sane guy without making everything about himself he would have still remained here and we would have even finished in top 4 last season.

Ole may also be regarded as a failure but he could also be a success. No one knows, which is why people bringing Jose in their argument are just making a fool of themselves. He is gone, get over with it.

Fair enough But atleast we can semi admit our views on him are more personal that logical. I mean mine are.. but I can still give a logical view as he’s not here now and I don’t care anymore. Even though I’ve just got over my petty views of Moyes.

 

[Matriac]

We could have brought Bruno in the summer but brought him in January instead. Why was this?

Now this is just me speculating of course. But I believe that factors could be that:

* Our scouts were unsure of him due to a lot of dropped balls/missed passes (which we have seen more of in the last few games, but the rest of his play normally makes up for it).
- What changed from the summer? Well our scouts and Ole had more time to evaluate him over another half season.

* Pogba was not injured.
- What changed from the summer? Well Pogba was injured most of the season, and it showed clearly we were lacking a creative player. Maybe Pogba would leave as well, but we knew last summer he would stay another season, so replacing his creative output then was not as imperative back then as in January/coming summer.

* Transfer fee, it was widely reported that Sporting wanted £70m in the summer. In what type of arrangement we don't know for sure.
- What changed from the summer? Again we can't know for sure, but it has been reported that we got him for £46m, with addons:
£4.2m for starting 25 games for us (840k per 5 games)
£4.2m if we qualify for Champions League this year or the next four years (only paid once).
These you would expect us to achieve so that brings the fee to £54.4m
Then you have another £4.2m if he either wins PFA Player of the year or becomes top 3 in Ballon d'Or, to be paid up to 3 times max. If he achieves this three times that would bring the total fee to £67m. That is both lower than what was reported they wanted in the summer, but also structured as payments over time instead of all at once, and 19% of the fee depends on him being among the best players in the world for us over several seasons. That's a really good warranty policy.

Now it was probably never just one of these factors holding back the transfer in the summer, but all in all the scales tipped in favor of waiting. Why exactly only Ed and Ole knows. But in my opinion there were several good/plausible reasons to wait. Risk factor being we didn't need him yet as we never expected to be able to challenge this season, so waiting until next (this) summer when the team was more drilled and we hoped to get more players out and maybe Sancho +more in to put us in a better place to have a chance to challenge in the 20/21 season.

Then we haven't even considered if walking away from negotiations short-term can help us in long-term as clubs realize we don't roll over as easily any more. Maguire/AWB was also done for lower than their clubs wanted (still expensive ofc).

 

[Skåre Willoch]

I promise you I'm not. I didn't make up anything there. All of those things happened. Ole was celebrated for all those things. And Ole is the sole owner of the worst win% in Man Utd's EPL history. None of your cries and laughs are gonna change the facts.

But those are not actual facts. None of your cries will turn your lies to facts.

Ole's actual win % (50,8%) in the EPL is better than Moyes (50%), and if we win tomorrow it will be 51,7%, which is better than Van Gaal (51,3%).
He also has a better win % than both in all competitions already.

Win % all competitions:
David Moyes: 52.94
Louis Van Gaal: 52.43
José Mourinho: 58.33
Ole Gunnar Solskjær: 54.12

He also has more goals scored per game than all of Mourinho, Moyes and Van gaal.
This, to me, is a sign of playing more attacking football.

Goals scored per game in all competitions:
David Moyes: 1.686
Louis Van Gaal: 1.533
José Mourinho: 1.694
Ole Gunnar Solskjær: 1.788

He has let in more goals per game than Mourinho and Van Gaal (slightly), though, but I guess that's not really surprising.

Goals conceded per game in all competitions:
David Moyes: 1.058
Louis Van Gaal: 0.951
José Mourinho: 0.84
Ole Gunnar Solskjær: 0.964

 

[anant]

Sure, let me hear it.

" Even if we ignore the points total Ole is still win%-wise the worst United manager in PL history. Kind of an art form when you consider he's had two big unbeaten runs in 20 months and still manages to be the worst. He's also Cardiff's worst manager ever. And his main assistant is also the worst for Hull and another club, can't remember of the top of my head. Entire coaching staff consists of failed Cardiff coaches and guys from Australian league. "

Factual error 1: Ole is still win%-wise the worst United manager in PL history.
Moyes has a worse win % in PL. If we include all competitions, his win% is better than LVG as well

Factual error 2: He's also Cardiff's worst manager ever
Not even close
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cardiff_City_F.C._managers

Factual error 3: his main assistant is also the worst for Hull
Phelan had a win% of 25% which is better than a fair few managers, and this despite Phelan guiding Hull in PL, while most others managed Hull in Championship
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hull_City_A.F.C._managers

Factual Error 4: and another club, can't remember of the top of my head
Phelan has managed just Hull, our reserves and was caretaker of Norwich, so not sure what you're on about

Factual Error 5: Entire coaching staff consists of failed Cardiff coaches and guys from Australian league.
Bringing 2-3 staff from Cardiff and A-league isn't equivalent to entire coaching staff. His assistant is Phelan, who was Fergie's assistant as well. The 2 guys who run the training are McKenna and Carrick!

And I just picked out one point here

 

[Matriac]

Also to the ones claiming we were willing to sacrifice the Bruno transfer if we could get Haaland because Ole spoke a lot to the media about Haaland and not about Bruno.

First of all Haaland was the hottest player in the world at the time, and he was expected to transfer in that window. Since he had a buyout clause it didn't matter for the fee's sake if we spoke about him or not, that wouldn't change.

But we had to convince the player to choose us over the other clubs. Which is what we tried when Ole spoke about him when asked by all the journalists asking about it. They didn't ask about Bruno (as much) because he wasn't as hyped.
And it didn't seem like Bruno needed any convincing to join us, seems like he was dying to. So talking about him would only risk inflating the transfer fee that had yet to be negotiated.

 

[Mainoldo]

Now this is just me speculating of course. But I believe that factors could be that:

* Our scouts were unsure of him due to a lot of dropped balls/missed passes (which we have seen more of in the last few games, but the rest of his play normally makes up for it).
- What changed from the summer? Well our scouts and Ole had more time to evaluate him over another half season.

* Pogba was not injured.
- What changed from the summer? Well Pogba was injured most of the season, and it showed clearly we were lacking a creative player. Maybe Pogba would leave as well, but we knew last summer he would stay another season, so replacing his creative output then was not as imperative back then as in January/coming summer.

* Transfer fee, it was widely reported that Sporting wanted £70m in the summer. In what type of arrangement we don't know for sure.
- What changed from the summer? Again we can't know for sure, but it has been reported that we got him for £46m, with addons:
£4.2m for starting 25 games for us (840k per 5 games)
£4.2m if we qualify for Champions League this year or the next four years (only paid once).
These you would expect us to achieve so that brings the fee to £54.4m
Then you have another £4.2m if he either wins PFA Player of the year or becomes top 3 in Ballon d'Or, to be paid up to 3 times max. If he achieves this three times that would bring the total fee to £67m. That is both lower than what was reported they wanted in the summer, but also structured as payments over time instead of all at once, and 19% of the fee depends on him being among the best players in the world for us over several seasons. That's a really good warranty policy.

Now it was probably never just one of these factors holding back the transfer in the summer, but all in all the scales tipped in favor of waiting. Why exactly only Ed and Ole knows. But in my opinion there were several good/plausible reasons to wait. Risk factor being we didn't need him yet as we never expected to be able to challenge this season, so waiting until next (this) summer when the team was more drilled and we hoped to get more players out and maybe Sancho +more in to put us in a better place to have a chance to challenge in the 20/21 season.

Then we haven't even considered if walking away from negotiations short-term can help us in long-term as clubs realize we don't roll over as easily any more. Maguire/AWB was also done for lower than their clubs wanted (still expensive ofc).

Agreed with all the assumptions you’ve said. But as he’s clearly shown now it was a mistake not to get him in the summer and kind of brings doubt to this good planning we keep claiming to have. But hey if we eventually get there in the end then so be it.

 

[Mainoldo]

Also to the ones claiming we were willing to sacrifice the Bruno transfer if we could get Haaland because Ole spoke a lot to the media about Haaland and not about Bruno.

First of all Haaland was the hottest player in the world at the time, and he was expected to transfer in that window. Since he had a buyout clause it didn't matter for the fee's sake if we spoke about him or not, that wouldn't change.

But we had to convince the player to choose us over the other clubs. Which is what we tried when Ole spoke about him when asked by all the journalists asking about it. They didn't ask about Bruno (as much) because he wasn't as hyped.
And it didn't seem like Bruno needed any convincing to join us, seems like he was dying to. So talking about him would only risk inflating the transfer fee that had yet to be negotiated.

Flip reverse we didn’t speak about him as he wasn’t on the cards until injuries. You literally posted above the reason why we probably didn’t get him in the summer. Pogba and funds being one of them. Yes Haaland ended up going for cheap but clearly 70£m was just readily available for us to use hence why negotiations took so long.

 

[Matriac]

Agreed with all the assumptions you’ve said. But as he’s clearly shown now it was a mistake not to get him in the summer and kind of brings doubt to this good planning we keep claiming to have. But hey if we eventually get there in the end then so be it.

It's easy to make good plans when you know how the results turned out.

We couldn't plan for the fact that Pogba would be injured for the majority of the season. Nor plan for the certainty that Bruno's playstyle would be good enough or his fee not too high.

He was more needed in January than he was in the summer (could still have used him then of course). So it tipped the scales in favor of taking the chance on him, plus we got a good deal.