Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?

  • Sack Ole end of season & appoint new coach ASAP

  • Keep Ole & back him to finish rebuild


Results are only viewable after voting.

Leftback99

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It's more of a shock seeing the tripe they come up with to explain why. Not all do that, mind. In fact a few come up with valid rebuttals (like Revan for one) but a lot are just too hung up with what they believe (i.e Ole is shite) to see visible progress.
People just don't like to admit they were wrong.
 

GailSpaceWynand

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Completely agree, it’s fine to have doubts, even I do and I’m a massive Ole fan. But you have to be logical and objective and the mental gymnastics on display in this thread are just awful and especially against one of our own. Fortunately I think Ole will use this negativity to fuel this young team so keep the criticism coming and let’s continue to blow them all away.
Again not by all but a few who have unfortunately been the loudest (just need to look at who replied stats to understand that). In fairness there is very less negativity looking at our overall fan base. Most are optimistic about next season and rightly so.
 

Mainoldo

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That's it you just keep on dodging the question, that's a good lad.
I answered the question. Your trying to explain to me that Ole had a better season than Arteta because it league position. Okay he has.. but Arteta’s job right now doesn’t have the same requirements as Ole. Which I already explained early and your question is irrelevant.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Again not by all but a few who have unfortunately been the loudest (just need to look at who replied stats to understand that). In fairness there is very less negativity looking at our overall fan base. Most are optimistic about next season and rightly so.
Yeh rightly most fans are optimistic which is great to see. The sad thing is that some fans are so clouded in negativity and bias that they can’t even enjoy the fantastic football and development that we have made this season. It’s petty but I don’t feel like those few fans deserve the opportunity to enjoy the good times ahead and I really think they will.
 

He'sRaldo

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It includes refreshing and reshaping the squad in perpetuity until the day comes when the team reaches the footballing equivalent of entropy.
Cheers, this is a good way to put it.

So would you say it's fair to watch out for signs of entropy and try to act proactively? At least until the point where there are no doubts (in which case Ole would have smashed it).

Or do we act reactively, should said entropy occur?
 

GailSpaceWynand

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I answered the question. Your trying to explain to me that Ole had a better season than Arteta because it league position. Okay he has.. but Arteta’s job right now doesn’t have the same requirements as Ole. Which I already explained early and your question is irrelevant.
Okay so Ole has a better season but he is the one winging it and Arteta had a good season?
 

RedPed

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I answered the question. Your trying to explain to me that Ole had a better season than Arteta because it league position. Okay he has.. but Arteta’s job right now doesn’t have the same requirements as Ole. Which I already explained early and your question is irrelevant.

That's generally how leagues work, you get more credit the higher you finish up the table. It's like saying although Klopp won the title with Liverpool, Wilder had a better season as manager at Sheffield United.

And who says Arteta's job does not have the same requirements as Solskjaer's? That's a ridiculous argument.

And my question which you've still dodged and not answered was why you say Ole is winging it finishing in 3rd but Arteta is doing a good job finishing in 8th. But this thread has been 548 pages of the Ole nay-sayers not making much sense so I shouldn't really expect any different here.

Anyway you carry on.
 

GailSpaceWynand

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Yeh rightly most fans are optimistic which is great to see. The sad thing is that some fans are so clouded in negativity and bias that they can’t even enjoy the fantastic football and development that we have made this season. It’s petty but I don’t feel like those few fans deserve the opportunity to enjoy the good times ahead and I really think they will.
They will. I have also seen a few talk about how celebrating top 3 or settling for anything less than PL/CL is bad. We are celebrating progress and clear visible signs that our squad is close to competing for the first time in ages and that too with exciting attacking footy.

Some live in a bubble completely ignoring context and where we are at this time considering the rot over the last 7 years. Ole deserves huge credit for turning around the mentality around the club / clearing the deadwood and being bang on with transfers. This is despite his top 4 achievements. Expecting title challenge or being CL heavyweights now is not reasonable. That will be the next point these guys bring up. If we don't win despite progress the same people will start spouting nonsense. Can't win against some really.
 

GailSpaceWynand

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:lol: I’m amazed how much people feel the need to back Ole over everything. I’m convinced some of you would back Ole over United.
I'm amazed how some will do anything to not give credit where its due. All your points have been negated throughout and you have still continued shifting goalposts. Almost twice the number of posts as the 2nd highest poster; Not a single valid point made.

Why don't you answer the question instead? Because there is nothing to answer and you know your reasoning is faulty at best. Do continue. I don't want to waste my time on somebody whose mind is made up.
 

He'sRaldo

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Okay so Ole has a better season but he is the one winging it and Arteta had a good season?
I think comparisons with other random managers was never appropriate and I found it quite annoying earlier in the season. Especially when it was used purely to highlight Ole's deficiencies.

But now Ole needs to win the title, so we do have to compare him with the best, that's how it goes. For instance, Pep at City came 2nd but still had a poor PL campaign. Why? Because he didn't win, and Klopp was better than him. That's how it is at the top.

So I think comparing with Lampard and Arteta isn't our ambition anymore, because who cares if Arsenal or Chelsea eventually flounder with rookie managers. We have to compare with the best, as that's ultimately where we want to be.
 

Mainoldo

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That's generally how leagues work, you get more credit the higher you finish up the table. It's like saying although Klopp won the title with Liverpool, Wilder had a better season as manager at Sheffield United.

And who says Arteta's job does not have the same requirements as Solskjaer's? That's a ridiculous argument.

And my question which you've still dodged and not answered was why you say Ole is winging it finishing in 3rd but Arteta is doing a good job finishing in 8th. But this thread has been 548 pages of the Ole nay-sayers not making much sense so I shouldn't really expect any different here.

Anyway you carry on.
Again what’s your point? I’ve been talking about Ole you’ve brought up Arteta. I’ve gave a simple response to how Arteta’s season has gone and your comparing it to Ole’s? Why?
 

RedPed

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Again what’s your point? I’ve been talking about Ole you’ve brought up Arteta. I’ve gave a simple response to how Arteta’s season has gone and your comparing it to Ole’s? Why?
Ffs! :lol:
 

AshRK

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:lol: I’m amazed how much people feel the need to back Ole over everything. I’m convinced some of you would back Ole over United.
Same can be said about you that you will like for the club to fail for you to be proven right.
 

RedPed

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Again what’s your point? I’ve been talking about Ole you’ve brought up Arteta. I’ve gave a simple response to how Arteta’s season has gone and your comparing it to Ole’s? Why?
I wasn't comparing it to Ole's. YOU were the one saying Ole was winging it. I wanted some perspective so asked your opinion on Lampard and Arteta. YOU said they were doing a good job.

My simple question to you was simply why did you feel Ole was winging it yet they were doing a good job even though they both finished below him in the league.

It's not rocket science or a trick question. Ffs!
 

Mainoldo

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I wasn't comparing it to Ole's. YOU were the one saying Ole was winging it. I wanted some perspective so asked your opinion on Lampard and Arteta. YOU said they were doing a good job.

My simple question to you was simply why did you feel Ole was winging it yet they were doing a good job even though they both finished below him in the league.

It's not rocket science or a trick question. Ffs!
Did I not explain why I thought Ole was winging it?

Tell me I never?
 

Fussball13251

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Someone else would. You are going to hope the freak 15/16 season all over again for Jose to win the league in 17/18.



Point means nothing without knowing why and how they achieve it.

For example. Last season we achieved 66 points which exactly the same as this season. So how did we finish top 4 while last season we didn't? Because this season we beat our competitors (Chelsea 2x, Leicester 2x, Spurs 1x & draw). If we didn't beat Leicester & Chelsea twice but beat other teams instead, we wouldn't make top 3 with 66 points this season.

Every seasons & eras are different. 12/13 or post are different to prior.

Sir Alex won the league with 89 points in 12/13. Are you telling me that 12/13 squad is better than 98/99? If Sir Alex can won the league with 89 points with Cleverley, Jones, 39 years old Giggs, Young & Valencia in 12/13 which is the beginning of the, imagine what he can do with proper players in nowdays era.
Alex Ferguson was an exceptional manager though. We went for Moyes which lowered the expectations. I'm not bashing managers like Moyes, Roy Hodgson, etc, but they are 5th place managers at best.

We should have waited and went for Klopp. Don't listen to the fake news Klopp would never have turned down United.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Alex Ferguson was an exceptional manager though. We went for Moyes which lowered the expectations. I'm not bashing managers like Moyes, Roy Hodgson, etc, but they are 5th place managers at best.

We should have waited and went for Klopp. Don't listen to the fake news Klopp would never have turned down United.
Mourinho, Benitez, Wenger, Ancelotti and etc.
 

Fussball13251

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Mourinho, Benitez, Wenger, Ancelotti and etc.
They were champions. Klopp and Pep are the top in the modern era.

Send either to Barca and Barca would quickly be back to being the best in Eueope.

Wenger is too old.

Edit:
Yes he would, but Klopp and Pep are exceptional like him and so it wouldn't be as easy. Pep and Klopp are on the same Level as Alex Ferguson. Ferguson and Pep would quickly have Liverpool winning the league, too.

Let Ferguson, Klopp and Pep manage West Ham and they would be challenging for league titles within about 5/6 years.

There's the the average, there's the good, and there's the elite.
 
Last edited:

UNITED ACADEMY

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They were champions. Klopp and Pep are the top in the modern era.
And you don't think a manager like Sir Alex who was able to adapt different era of football cannot top this modern era?

89 points in 12/13 season with Cleverley, Jones, 39 yo Giggs, Anderson & Welbeck. That wasn't far from 2020.
 

MoskvaRed

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They were champions. Klopp and Pep are the top in the modern era.

Send either to Barca and Barca would quickly be back to being the best in Eueope.

Wenger is too old.

Edit:
Yes he would, but Klopp and Pep are exceptional like him and so it wouldn't be as easy. Pep and Klopp are on the same Level as Alex Ferguson. Ferguson and Pep would quickly have Liverpool winning the league, too.

Let Ferguson, Klopp and Pep manage West Ham and they would be challenging for league titles within about 5/6 years.

There's the the average, there's the good, and there's the elite.
Why compare managers from different eras? Fergie was “relevant” fron the early 80s to the early 2010s. Over 30 years. I doubt any manager will match that record of consistent achievement.. 10 years ago, Mourinho was the benchmark. Now he.looks ready for China. 20 years ago it was Wenger etc...

Pep”s failures In Europe at Bayern (while having the advantage of a Scottish-style one team league) and then at oil-rich City suggest he can’t win the biggest prize without Messi. Klopp is closer to Fergie in style and substance but who knows whether he’ll still be going in 20 years (and whether he even wants to).
 

GailSpaceWynand

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I think comparisons with other random managers was never appropriate and I found it quite annoying earlier in the season. Especially when it was used purely to highlight Ole's deficiencies.

But now Ole needs to win the title, so we do have to compare him with the best, that's how it goes. For instance, Pep at City came 2nd but still had a poor PL campaign. Why? Because he didn't win, and Klopp was better than him. That's how it is at the top.

So I think comparing with Lampard and Arteta isn't our ambition anymore, because who cares if Arsenal or Chelsea eventually flounder with rookie managers. We have to compare with the best, as that's ultimately where we want to be.
I agree with the first bit. My answer was in response to the poster stating Arteta had a good season and ole didn't which is hogwash.

Ole needs to win the title surely. That's the ambition of United going forward. Comparing to Pep/Klopp who've set the standard over the past few years is a tad premature. We need to give time to Ole to set his team which happened with both Klopp/Pep - iirc both finished top 4 in their 1st full seasons after which they strengthened at key positions which made them contenders in the next.
 

GailSpaceWynand

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They were champions. Klopp and Pep are the top in the modern era.

Send either to Barca and Barca would quickly be back to being the best in Eueope.

Wenger is too old.

Edit:
Yes he would, but Klopp and Pep are exceptional like him and so it wouldn't be as easy. Pep and Klopp are on the same Level as Alex Ferguson. Ferguson and Pep would quickly have Liverpool winning the league, too.

Let Ferguson, Klopp and Pep manage West Ham and they would be challenging for league titles within about 5/6 years.

There's the the average, there's the good, and there's the elite.
I disagree with the bolded bit. As another just said - avg squad stats at the top for 3-4 years after which they need to rebuild. To win titles without having the best personnels / conditions is what made SAF the best (and longevity) Maybe they will someday be able to match SAF but there is no guarantee.

Mou was the benchmark. Wenger too. Where are they now? To have sustained success over decades is not easy. Even klopp/pep require time to build their teams. SAF could compete with a decent squad unlike these 2 (maybe Klopp can but let's see)
 

pablo__p

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Other than better position in the league we didn't make much progress imo.

We can't play from the back. It's oftentimes comical how bad we look playing from the back.
We can't press as a unit. We don't seem to be getting even remotely better at systemic pressing.
Game management has been at best dubious.
Motivation-wise I didn't see players willing to die for CL in the last games of the season or capitalize on whenever our top4 competitors lost points.

The improvement we've seen is IMO more thanks to Bruno rather than Ole's management.
 

RedSky

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No improvement from last season?

Last season:
54 goals conceded
7 clean sheets

This season:
36 goals conceded
13 clean sheets

We got 11 clean sheets in our last 19 games. Our defense has improved significantly from last season, we're on a 14 league game unbeaten run after just completing a 19 game unbeaten run in all comps. Some of you make out Ole is like Homer Simpson pressing random buttons at the Nucleur Power Plant. As for Arsenal, they finished 14 points worse off than last season, anyone thinking Arteta has had a good season needs a head check. They've had a poor season being masked by a good FA Cup win.
 

tomaldinho1

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There was way less money for the weaker sides back then. Why would they be stronger in a sport that has evolved since then too? Watching the few games I have the quality also look clearly worse back then. I am talking CL games and
I doubt there is not a gap difference for the weaker sides too.
The weaker sides now can keep their players better and also sign quality from other leagues. Maybe sides are a bit more attacking now though and thus leaves themselfes more exposed for the bigger sides?
Still most side play vs City and try to defend very deep.
Are they weaker comparatively though, this is what you're missing when you compare two completely different eras. I'd argue the PL has been at it's most uncompetitive for a few years now - proven by the dramatic increase in points totals & goals scored by the relative top teams. If you were to analyze the points gap between the bottom & top of the table, it was 49 points in 1999 whereas this season it's a staggering 78... you can do the same with the gap between the top 4, top 6 or whatever, I think you'll find a trend in the last few years where teams like Liverpool and City simply don't have enough genuine competition and therefore run away with huge points totals or you get teams like Leicester winning the league.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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Are they weaker comparatively though, this is what you're missing when you compare two completely different eras. I'd argue the PL has been at it's most uncompetitive for a few years now - proven by the dramatic increase in points totals & goals scored by the relative top teams. If you were to analyze the points gap between the bottom & top of the table, it was 49 points in 1999 whereas this season it's a staggering 78... you can do the same with the gap between the top 4, top 6 or whatever, I think you'll find a trend in the last few years where teams like Liverpool and City simply don't have enough genuine competition and therefore run away with huge points totals or you get teams like Leicester winning the league.
The top sides have got better at tactically beating the weaker teams I guess. Or the defending from the weaker sides is worse as a collective to park the bus. Since I do think the quality in attack is way higher for the weaker sides today.
I think Leicester show the quality of the weaker sides being higher today. They still had quality player in that team and also functioned well as a unit.
 

tomaldinho1

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The top sides have got better at tactically beating the weaker teams I guess. Or the defending from the weaker sides is worse as a collective to park the bus. Since I do think the quality in attack is way higher for the weaker sides today.
I think Leicester show the quality of the weaker sides being higher today. They still had quality player in that team and also functioned well as a unit.
But that goes against the evidence I'm giving you. More goals, more points, a bigger gap - it all points towards the league being less competitive now. It's not that top sides have got better at beating the weaker teams, it's simply that there are less top sides and more weaker teams. Using Leicester as an example disproves your own point, the fact that a 'weaker' team managed to win the PL is additional proof that the PL overall was weaker, the fact their title win precedes multiple years where you have multiple PL winners all breaking points total records is about as conclusive as you can get.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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But that goes against the evidence I'm giving you. More goals, more points, a bigger gap - it all points towards the league being less competitive now. It's not that top sides have got better at beating the weaker teams, it's simply that there are less top sides and more weaker teams. Using Leicester as an example disproves your own point, the fact that a 'weaker' team managed to win the PL is additional proof that the PL overall was weaker, the fact their title win precedes multiple years where you have multiple PL winners all breaking points total records is about as conclusive as you can get.
The gap at top 4 is not bigger though. It is just that you got insanly good sides.
Leicester did show that the weaker sides had quality though to win it. Although the expected top sides had a poor year that season.
Mourinho imploded etc and LVG was a big failure for us.
For many years we had Moyes fighting for top 4 with Everton. Now he is fighting for relegation with West Ham. Just shows how old midtable sides would compete near the bottom now.
 

Loon

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He attained the CL target set out for him. He might still win a trophy. He has to get another season. If he can bring in more quality like Fernandes, he might have a season of real promise.
 

GailSpaceWynand

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Other than better position in the league we didn't make much progress imo.

We can't play from the back. It's oftentimes comical how bad we look playing from the back.
We can't press as a unit. We don't seem to be getting even remotely better at systemic pressing.
Game management has been at best dubious.
Motivation-wise I didn't see players willing to die for CL in the last games of the season or capitalize on whenever our top4 competitors lost points.

The improvement we've seen is IMO more thanks to Bruno rather than Ole's management.
Shambolic post to say the least. 11 years and not promoted? God, you must be a troll/WUM. Or a fan of a rival.
 

Hernandez - BFA

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I wanted to start a new thread about this but I won’t just in case it’s been made common knowledge on the forum without be noticing.

We finished this season with 66 points.
Moyes’s season - we finished with 64 points.
We actually won more games with Moyes.

Absolutely mental that. My housemate is sticking to his guns - he does not rate Solskjaer and will not be the guy taking us to a PL win.
 

MalcolmTucker

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I wanted to start a new thread about this but I won’t just in case it’s been made common knowledge on the forum without be noticing.

We finished this season with 66 points.
Moyes’s season - we finished with 64 points.
We actually won more games with Moyes.

Absolutely mental that. My housemate is sticking to his guns - he does not rate Solskjaer and will not be the guy taking us to a PL win.
Yes it's been done to death in this thread.

The two main arguments against it, other than the fact that there are too many variables to really compare points totals with 7 years in between are;

Moyes took over runaway champions, Ole took over a team in 6th.

Points totals across seasons isn't a great barometer on quality; if it was, that would mean our 2nd place finish with Mourinho (81pts) was a better season than our treble league finish (79pts). Also means the Spurs team that came 2nd behind Chelsea are comfortably better than the current Man City team.
 

Matriac

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I wanted to start a new thread about this but I won’t just in case it’s been made common knowledge on the forum without be noticing.

We finished this season with 66 points.
Moyes’s season - we finished with 64 points.
We actually won more games with Moyes.

Absolutely mental that. My housemate is sticking to his guns - he does not rate Solskjaer and will not be the guy taking us to a PL win.
This has been brought up a million times.

Difference is Moyes took over the Champions. The skill and mentality level of the players at the club back them was totally different to the broken back of a club Solskjær walked into in December 2018.