Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?

  • Sack Ole & appoint new coach ASAP

  • Keep Ole & back him to finish rebuild


Results are only viewable after voting.

Bilbo

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I think the mods should lock this thread down for a while. It's all becoming a competition of being 'Top Red' rather than critiquing the manager's good and bad points.
This thread should have been locked months ago. Its a stain on the forum
 

Wayne's World

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Despite the win I'm not going to change my opinion. We are at the level that Rodgers was at Liverpool, the team was ready to make the next step and Liverpool went and sacked Rodgers and brought Klopp in.

We need to do the same to move forward
 

el3mel

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Never quite got the ignore function, I mean I know why it exists but never felt the need to use it. It's a forum with football opinions, whatever
Really ? Without ignore function this forum would have been unbearable to post in. I have more than 120 posters on the ignore. Sure some of them were because of direct personal insults, anyone who directly insulted me I put immediately on the ignore after reporting him, but there're also many whom I ignored just because their football opinions and way of talking are simply annoying, even if we have never interacted.
 

meamth

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As i predicted yesterday, a win against the mighty Newcastle and they'd be out giving the big one to people. It's like dealing with Trump supporters, there's nothing beyond blind support.
It's not blind support.

We have better patience than you lot.
 

anant

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Ole Outers after we lose to a low block: Ole out as his tactics can't break down a low block

Ole Outers after we win against a low block: It was only Newcastle

FFS! this was a game which we should have struggled in as Ole 'struggles' against deep defences. We managed 14 shots on target! Most we've managed in a game in last 5 seasons
 

Robbie Boy

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Maybe OGS wont survive the season - but my God he will have made the next managers job a lot easier than it was when he got the job
Agree totally. I have serious reservations and doubts that he's a top level coach but he's left a very good squad for the next manager to work with. Once Rojo, Jones and a-few others are shifted, then we'll have gotten rid of pretty much all of the perceived 'deadwood'.
 

Shark

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Really ? Without ignore function this forum would have been unbearable to post in. I have more than 120 posters on the ignore. Sure some of them was because of direct personal insults, anyone who directly insulted me I put immediately on the ignore after reporting him, but there're also many whom I ignored just because their football opinions and way of talking are simply annoying, even if we have never interacted.
That's fair enough. Yeah not sure why I've never really used it, guess even the worst posters in this place over the years I've gotten some comedic value from at times
 

Robbie Boy

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Ole Outers after we lose to a low block: Ole out as his tactics can't break down a low block

Ole Outers after we win against a low block: It was only Newcastle

FFS! this was a game which we should have struggled in as Ole 'struggles' against deep defences. We managed 14 shots on target! Most we've managed in a game in last 5 seasons
:confused:

What? I think everyone agreed that Bruno was the key to unlocking a 'low block' side.
 

sammsky1

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Ole Outers after we lose to a low block: Ole out as his tactics can't break down a low block
Ole Outers after we win against a low block: It was only Newcastle
FFS! this was a game which we should have struggled in as Ole 'struggles' against deep defences. We managed 14 shots on target! Most we've managed in a game in last 5 seasons
Ole hasn't struggled against any type of team since end of lockdown.

We suffered some arbitrary losses at start of this season because of a clusterfcuk of uncontrollable circumstances, but that has been exploited to suit personal agenda's to get our manager sacked.
 

Smores

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It's not blind support.

We have better patience than you lot.
If it wasn't blind support they'd be debate. Instead it's relentless calls for blind backing and top red nonsense against any criticism.

I swear about 5% of posts on here right now for weeks are some variation of accusing people of only being happy when we lose. That's just a mental position but it's also boring drivel that no one else wants to read.

The sensible people have taken on board the variety of positives and negatives and had their opinions swayed over time one way and back. Some instead declare support of a manager as if it's a badge of honour, it was the same under previous managers.
 

Maluco

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Happy for Ole and the lads today, and even happier with the confidence boosting gloss at the end.

A poor start to the season but this win keeps us in touch of everyone else dropping points early doors.

He has it all to prove still in my opinion. We need consistency, and I hope the changes today are the first step toward finding it.

I think it’s bizarre that some believe you can’t worry about the manager while giving the team your full support. It’s really baffling and doesn’t make any sense.

I had a really long week and really enjoyed the win today. I didn’t enjoy it any less than those who weren’t concerned after the Spurs games. Anyone sane would have been a little worried, and anyone sane would be relieved and content today!

Any extreme viewpoint just isn’t being objective. Whether you think Ole has the capacity to coach such a massive club or not, too many people are getting lost trying to be right and both extremes aren’t any good for the forum.

If you can’t have a calm discussion or debate about it, you probably shouldn’t bother coming here after a heavy loss, or a great win. Both extremes are as bad as each other and are extremely annoying to read.
 

Foxbatt

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The win is good for us the club and the fans. It is toxic people here who are crowing about the win and all that sort of thing that is getting toxic. I still do not think Ole is the man to win us trophies. Beating Newcastle does not prove anything else. This is a game we should always win and so was the Palace game. Now if he goes and wins the new few games I will hold up my hand and said I was wrong.
 

anant

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Ole hasn't struggled against any type of team since end of lockdown.

We suffered some arbitrary losses at start of this season because of a clusterfcuk of uncontrollable circumstances, but that has been exploited to suit personal agenda's to get our manager sacked.
I know that, but the number of times you hear that argument and then see people downplaying Newcastle as just Newcastle is bonkers
 

Bastian

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He got a committed performance today and he probably selected the players who are most committed and professional. People on here are saying the performance wasn't good until Pogba and VdB came on, but I disagree. The performance was good throughout most of the match, just lacking that bit of quality until the pair came on. I'm not sure the team would have been as fired up if Ole had favoured quality over fight in his starting line up.

I suspect we've probably been outworked in midfield against Newcastle in recent years. Nothing lacking in that department tonight.

I can't remember who said it, but someone suggested Ole just accept that we're a counter attacking team. I'm not sure whether Ole is more than a counter attacking manager, but this team is capable of more. But the absolute minimum he has to get out of them is this level of commitment and then build on that.

So taking the good things from our playing like a small club pre-Bruno, and adding more purposeful attacking intent. Maybe VdB is that missing link - providing both the quality and mentality.
 

Robbie Boy

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I know that, but the number of times you hear that argument and then see people downplaying Newcastle as just Newcastle is bonkers
That's a tad silly tbh. It's like if we beat PSG, people will rightly laud the fact that we beat a top side that made it to last seasons CL Final. Just like saying beating Newcastle - who had 6 shots on target all season prior to tonight- is a decent result but nothing more. Let's be honest, it's a game that most expected us to win.

Why can people no longer discuss context around wins/defeats and strengths/weaknesses of the opposition. Our last 20 minutes tonight was brilliant football and I feel VdB played a huge part in that. Overall, the performance was a-bit sloppy and disjointed for a lot of the match. Newcastle had zero attacking intent and let us have the ball. They were content with trying to counter using Saint Maxim as that outlet. We weren't great at all in the first half and again, struggled a-bit in the second half until the final 20 minutes. Ole made some positive subs that worked and there were some very pleasing overall player performances. But yeah, let's not pretend this Newcastle side aren't a poor enough side. They have a striker who is inept and a woeful midfield. They rely on their defence and a counter attacking system. I expect them to finish lower mid-table.

Overall, we finished the night on a positive note and that's great given we have a tough fixture list coming up. Good nights work in the end but plenty to be worked on. People aren't going to pretend we played swashbuckling football for ninty minutes, because it's far from the truth.
 

sammsky1

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If it wasn't blind support they'd be debate. Instead it's relentless calls for blind backing and top red nonsense against any criticism.
I swear about 5% of posts on here right now for weeks are some variation of accusing people of only being happy when we lose. That's just a mental position but it's also boring drivel that no one else wants to read.
The sensible people have taken on board the variety of positives and negatives and had their opinions swayed over time one way and back. Some instead declare support of a manager as if it's a badge of honour, it was the same under previous managers.
OleOUTers have vague and unquantifiable judgment criteria. There is no way to debate with such bigoted fundamentalists.

On every realistic metric, Ole is outperforming.
 

lysglimt

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Agree totally. I have serious reservations and doubts that he's a top level coach but he's left a very good squad for the next manager to work with. Once Rojo, Jones and a-few others are shifted, then we'll have gotten rid of pretty much all of the perceived 'deadwood'.
If we leave out every single player that started today - this could be our squad against PSG (well Romero isnt eligible but for arguments sake)

Henderson - Telles, Tuanzebe, Bailly, Williams - Matic,V.d.Beek,Pogba - Martial, Cavani, Greenwood
Bench: Romero, Mengi, Lingard, Ighalo, Laird, T.F.M, Pellistri

I guess it's fair to say our squad has improved "slightly" since then.
 

sammsky1

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I know that, but the number of times you hear that argument and then see people downplaying Newcastle as just Newcastle is bonkers
Yeah, its a very odd, and destructive energy from people who claim they support the club.

What I really enjoyed about today was seeing some brilliant tactical strategies from Ole. Bruno mentioned in his interview that his goal was a direct result of training drills he and Rashford have worked hard at. But yeah, our team isn't 'coached'.
 

Robbie Boy

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If we leave out every single player that started today - this could be our squad against PSG (well Romero isnt eligible but for arguments sake)

Henderson - Telles, Tuanzebe, Bailly, Williams - Matic,V.d.Beek,Pogba - Martial, Cavani, Greenwood
Bench: Romero, Mengi, Lingard, Ighalo, Laird, T.F.M, Pellistri

I guess it's fair to say our squad has improved "slightly" since then.
We're in a much better place squad wise than what Mourinho left. Also Ole won't leave behind a toxic mess.
 

rotherham_red

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The win is good for us the club and the fans. It is toxic people here who are crowing about the win and all that sort of thing that is getting toxic. I still do not think Ole is the man to win us trophies. Beating Newcastle does not prove anything else. This is a game we should always win and so was the Palace game. Now if he goes and wins the new few games I will hold up my hand and said I was wrong.
Being happy that the team has won is being toxic? While hurling insults at other posters and insulting the manager and players isn't?

Am I in the upside down?
 

lysglimt

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That's a tad silly tbh. It's like if we beat PSG, people will rightly laud the fact that we beat a top side that made it to last seasons CL Final. Just like saying beating Newcastle - who had 6 shots on target all season prior to tonight- is a decent result but nothing more. Let's be honest, it's a game that most expected us to win.

Why can people no longer discuss context around wins/defeats and strengths/weaknesses of the opposition. Our last 20 minutes tonight was brilliant football and I feel VdB played a huge part in that. Overall, the performance was a-bit sloppy and disjointed for a lot of the match. Newcastle had zero attacking intent and let us have the ball. They were content with trying to counter using Saint Maxim as that outlet. We weren't great at all in the first half and again, struggled a-bit in the second half until the final 20 minutes. Ole made some positive subs that worked and there were some very pleasing overall player performances. But yeah, let's not pretend this Newcastle side aren't a poor enough side. They have a striker who is inept and a woeful midfield. They rely on their defence and a counter attacking system. I expect them to finish lower mid-table.

Overall, we finished the night on a positive note and that's great given we have a tough fixture list coming up. Good nights work in the end but plenty to be worked on. People aren't going to pretend we played swashbuckling football for ninty minutes, because it's far from the truth.
No one is saying Newcastle are a great side - but they beat Burnley 3-1, they beat West Ham 2-0, they draw away to Spurs - and yes that an awful game against Brighton as well.

And no we didn't play swashbuckling football for 90 minutes - but when you have 13 shots on goal against a P.L side away - miss a penalty, have one goal ruled out for offside, 2 balls cleared off the line and score 4 goals - then that is a good match regardless of who you play.
 

Robbie Boy

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Being happy that the team has won is being toxic? While hurling insults at other posters and insulting the manager and players isn't?

Am I in the upside down?
The absolute overwhelming majority from both sides are good rational posters who engage in sensible debate. It's the very small minority from both sides that lower the tone. If you read the last few pages you'll see how it's both sides. If you can't see it that then you're being deliberately obtuce imo.
 

Rado_N

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Not aiming this at any particular person, but anyone who says that people who think he should be sacked are somehow not real fans are seriously self righteous arseholes. And dumber than a bag of rocks.
 

Robbie Boy

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No one is saying Newcastle are a great side - but they beat Burnley 3-1, they beat West Ham 2-0, they draw away to Spurs - and yes that an awful game against Brighton as well.

And no we didn't play swashbuckling football for 90 minutes - but when you have 13 shots on goal against a P.L side away - miss a penalty, have one goal ruled out for offside, 2 balls cleared off the line and score 4 goals - then that is a good match regardless of who you play.
That wasn't my point. The poster I responded to had initially made a smary post which was to provoke reaction and was also untrue. His post about 'downplaying' Newcastle I just found silly. Most are debating rationally from both sides and calling it a good win. But Newcastle don't need to be downplayed as they are what they are, an average Bruce managed team. It was a good win in the end with positives. But there's also improvements to be made.
 

sammsky1

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Slightly flattering result. We were decent, but for a lot of the game, it felt like it was being played between two low-quality teams, one of which somehow signed Fernandes.
Newcastle was diabolical, but we never really overwhelmed them. They had no choice to come out when we scored the second, opening up the game.
Same issues continue: we struggle to score from open play without counter-attacking. Decent performance, but nothing more.
This is not an objective conclusion.

We had a goal disallowed for offside and also missed a penalty. 28 shots and 14 on target. (compared to 7 &4 for Newcastle). 64% possession.

We should have won by a bigger margin!
 

Greck

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The win is good for us the club and the fans. It is toxic people here who are crowing about the win and all that sort of thing that is getting toxic. I still do not think Ole is the man to win us trophies. Beating Newcastle does not prove anything else. This is a game we should always win and so was the Palace game. Now if he goes and wins the new few games I will hold up my hand and said I was wrong.
1uping is all in good fun. With the run of games we have coming I'm sure there'll be plenty to crow at for the people who are into that sort. The season didn't end today
 

sammsky1

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Not aiming this at any particular person, but anyone who says that people who think he should be sacked are somehow not real fans are seriously self righteous arseholes. And dumber than a bag of rocks.
In your opinion.
What if people don't care for your opinion? How can your statement then be true?
 
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rotherham_red

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The absolute overwhelming majority from both sides are good rational posters who engage in sensible debate. It's the very small minority from both sides that lower the tone. If you read the last few pages you'll see how it's both sides. If you can't see it that then you're being deliberately obtuce imo.
I mean, I'm just trying to get a sense check from the poster here.

Being happy and positive that the team you claim to support has won a game is, according to Foxbatt, a toxic behaviour.

However, nitpicking said result and saying "it's only Newcastle", or saying statements to the effect that Ole is still shit, are perfectly reasonable behaviours?

I mean, if you claim to support a team - you should at least be happy when said team wins, no? Otherwise, what is the point of this forum? Or indeed, the notion of 'support' itself?

Old Trafford, when Utd have just scored with the fans cheering would, if we took Foxbatt's logic to the nth degree, be toxic behaviour, and if we again took that same logic to the nth degree, if those same sets of supporters started booing the players and management, that would be perfectly fine?

Do you not see that inherent contradiction?

If some posters have gone a little doolally in response to the win, then it's a bit weird I agree, but how can something as natural as being happy that the team you profess to support has won a game be in any way shape or form, toxic?
 

Robbie Boy

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I mean, I'm just trying to get a sense check from the poster here.

Being happy and positive that the team you claim to support has won a game is, according to Foxbatt, a toxic behaviour.

However, nitpicking said result and saying "it's only Newcastle", or saying statements to the effect that Ole is still shit, are perfectly reasonable behaviours?

I mean, if you claim to support a team - you should at least be happy when said team wins, no? Otherwise, what is the point of this forum? Or indeed, the notion of 'support' itself?

Old Trafford, when Utd have just scored with the fans cheering would, if we took Foxbatt's logic to the nth degree, be toxic behaviour, and if we again took that same logic to the nth degree, if those same sets of supporters started booing the players and management, that would be perfectly fine?

Do you not see that inherent contradiction?

If some posters have gone a little doolally in response to the win, then it's a bit weird I agree, but how can something as natural as being happy that the team you profess to support has won a game be in any way shape or form, toxic?
It's both sides mate. There's a-lot of provocation and child like positing from a small minority which is causing shitty arguments and dick swinging contests. It's the manner of how some people post, not necessarily their opinions.

If you give the last few pages an honest unbiased read, you'll see that some posters are posting utter drivel, even ones that you deem to be in your camp.
 

sammsky1

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Aye, Mata was my MOTM too. He was bloody brilliant tbf to him. We dominated but Newcastle are absolute cowards under Bruce. Still thought we were fairly poor and disjointed for a good portion of the match even though that'll upset Sammybear1.
DvB turned the game for me, and credit to Ole for his subs and the timing of them. We looked genuinely excellent in the last 20 minutes but it's bloody annoying that we only seem to be able to do it in patches. Credit to AWB, Shaw and Maguire who have been under intense scrutiny. I thought all 3 were excellent. Shaw started a-bit nervy but kicked on and looked good going forward. Considering our next 4 games, we needed a win here. That last 20 minutes should be a great confidence builder. Also fantastic seeing Rashford get on the score sheet and now hopefully the silly Bruno rumours can also be put to bed.
Missed this post in my post match excitement!

Its a very good post: it was 1-1 when Donnie came on, and everything clicked once he came on. The extra bit I think needs context is that James did a lot of running and helped tire out Newcastle.

We were much fitter then them in last 20 minutes and that gave VdB and Pogba the time and space to make things look more cohesive and allowed for Bruno and Rashford amazing counter attack goals. And that was probably Ole's game management strategy, to end the game storming, for which he deserves credit /
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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This thread should have been locked months ago. Its a stain on the forum
A forum should be a place for open debate. This one happens to be about Manchester United so a debate about its management & its competence are valid. The stain on the forum is the group think mentality tied to an opinion.

The conversation lacks any nuance. We won today against a rather ordinary side i convincing fashion - this should be celebrated yet we were humiliated 2 weeks back against a league rival that exposed a number of deficiencies that despite today’s result still aren’t solved but the second we won, today’s result seems to have eradicated any issues.

The art of debate on forums is dead which is rather saddening.

In your opinion.
What if people don't care for your opinion? How can your statement then be true?
Top Red :lol:
 

rotherham_red

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It's both sides mate. There's a-lot of provocation and child like positing from a small minority which is causing shitty arguments and dick swinging contests. It's the manner of how some people post, not necessarily their opinions.

If you give the last few pages an honest unbiased read, you'll see that some posters are posting utter drivel, even ones that you deem to be in your camp.
I agree that there's been some idiotic posts on both sides, but is that really toxic, or just a natural response to the progressively worse opinions that have been loudly and repeatedly stated by a very select few people on the other side of the aisle?

Those posts aren't exactly being posted in a vacuum, are they? Even when people have been rational and conciliatory in their tone, the posts have either been largely ignored or just pounced upon by those people taking bits and pieces out of context and then proceeding to repeat the same buzz words ad infinitum, or just straight up saying it's bollocks or shit with nary a thought to having a wider debate.

Look, I can understand if people don't think he's the right man to take this club forward. Logically speaking, his record before coming to Utd was never a realistic preparation for it, and those dark days last season were very dark. However, he has done a lot of things right as well. Things which other, more illustrious managers didn't have the brass tacks to do.

He deserves credit for those things, as well as the benefit of the doubt considering where we ended up last season.

At the end of the day, it was 3 bad games and considering where everyone else is this year, those games weren't terminal. So, the question I always come back to is what is the harm exactly, in wanting to support the team and the manager? If it doesn't work out, then fair enough, but we have by no means not got to that point where we can make that judgement - especially now that he hasn't been given a lot of the targets that he initially set out to get.

This negativity and so-called 'realism', is very grating and just makes the experience of being here increasingly unpleasant. Especially when some of the worst offenders for it were MIA when the team was doing well. That doesn't tell me that they are sincere, rather that they have their own agenda and would rather be proven right than actually want the team to succeed. A fan can have legitimate concerns but still want us to do well, and from my vantage point, I just don't see that with a lot of these people. I, for example, thought Bruno wasn't going to be good enough, and right now, I think Cavani was a poor buy and will flop. However, I was absolutely delighted to be proven wrong thus far regarding Bruno, and would be equally delighted if Cavani went and made me eat my words. That, for me, is the difference between many of the Ole outers and those on the Ole in side of things.