Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?

  • Sack Ole & appoint new coach ASAP

  • Keep Ole & back him to finish rebuild


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Untd55

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It was a great win, but I think some people have to remember that Tuesday's PSG team was not as strong as the one in 18/19. Their midfield is ravaged by injuries; no Paredes, Verrati, or Marquinhos.

It isn't a great way to determine progress based on the performance against a stronger PSG to this one.
 

Flexdegea

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I think it’s because he’s been on two ridiculously good runs and two ridiculously bad runs in his tenure so far.

On talksport they were on about whether this squad was better than the one that beat PSG to give Ole the job, most agreed it was, however they said the biggest issue is no one still knows which United team are going to turn up from game to game.

I think people know my opinion by now but I’ll give him his dues yesterday, spot on tactics and took advantage of a team that left themselves open at the back, but it would be silly for many people to change their opinion from game to game. I’d like to see a consistent run again where we were beating teams for fun, like back when he was caretaker. Most games we play feel incredibly hard fought and on a knife edge from the word go. Nobody has a divine right to turn up and just win, but you’ve got to have that aura about you if you’re going to win the league.

Doesnt matter what Talksport are saying.


Also last night, we were a team defensive under massive pressure after a really bad start to the season. Most defenders confidence be shot to pieces, especially after being 2 centre backs down.

The manager has managed to fix that problem in the last 2 games. Again he got the performances of the team. Was only week ago people where looking him gone.
We are stuck with him anyway because Poch will most likely go to R.madrid.


And Praise the lord for that
 

patty123

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I'm not talking about net spend though
If you are going to compare him with the hobo, I'm sorry but you really do have to include net in my eyes.
Jeez not this net spend bs again please.
Why not, because it makes Ole's/Ed's overall spend look bad and puts him under even more pressure to at least get to the CL final this season and finish 4th if you are comparing both their first 2 seasons ?

So do tell me why we can't use net Ashrk ?
 

AshRK

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If you are going to compare him with the hobo, I'm sorry but you really do have to include net in my eyes.

Why not, because it makes Ole's/Ed's overall spend look bad and puts him under even more pressure to at least get to the CL final this season and finish 4th if you are comparing both their first 2 seasons ?

So do tell me why we can't use net Ashrk ?
Net spend is a flawed way to judge a manager. It is better to judge club's financial position but not to judge a manager. For example it is a proven thing that irrespective of Klopp liverpool are good sellers of their players. They got 32m for benteke, good amount for duds like Ibe and Solanke. On the other hand irrespective of who the Manager is for us we are not good sellers. In the last 7 years the best deal we got for a player I would say is welbeck for 16m. We have been struggling to sell the likes of Lingard, rojo, jones, periera etc. I bet liverpool would have sold these duds for good money.

You are acting as if Klopp personally goes to negotiate players selling value. Liverpool got extremely lucky that barca were stupid to spend 140m on coutinho, a player klopp wasn't a huge fan to begin with. The credit you can give klopp is he spent those 140m plus wisely on players. But to say he didn't spend anything just because they sold some players they didn't want for insane money is a joke.
 

FatherWolff

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It was a great win, but I think some people have to remember that Tuesday's PSG team was not as strong as the one in 18/19. Their midfield is ravaged by injuries; no Paredes, Verrati, or Marquinhos.

It isn't a great way to determine progress based on the performance against a stronger PSG to this one.
So equally we are forgetting that we didn’t start our strongest team either? We even started with Axel, who has been out for 10 months.

But I agree! I don’t think this game determines our progress, and the Crystal Palace game dosent either. A run of 30 odd games and 4 losses does to some extent though.

What it definitely does is throw out the arguments of Ole not fit to manage star players and tactically inept.
 
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Withnail

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So equally we are forgetting that we didn’t start our strongest team either? We even started with Axel, who has been out for 10 months.

But I agree! I don’t think this game determines our progress, and the Crystal Palace game dosent either. A run of 30 odd games and 4 losses does to some extent though.

What it definitely does is throw out the arguments of Ole not fit to manage star players and tactically inept.
You would think so.
 

red woppit

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Thought about this a lot last night. Hopefully this is a balanced opinion on Ole, feel free to agree, disagree.

Last night said a lot about Ole both as manager of people and also as a tactician. In the majority of big games I have no concerns with him or the coaching team. We always seem to be well drilled and create chances. Ok he is no Klopp spraying flemgh everywhere through his shiny white teeth, nor is he a Guardiola constantly waving his arms at the minutest mistake from the touchline. He has his own style and I am comfortable with that. What stood out last night was this was no defensive master class either. Containment football yes and that is the right thing to do against Neymar, Mbappe and Di Maria. Park the bus no. Go back when we won over in Paris last time round and if we all take our red tinted spec's off we can all say it was a great night but the finest of margins saw us through right at the last kick. Last night we controlled large parts of the game and created chances not only from counter attack but also from build up play. There was eleven battles on the pitch last night and for a man, utd dominated those battles. When you are seeing Mbappe being pushed to the wings and Neymar picking the ball up in his own half, that's not luck, that's good preparation and more importantly progress. If Martial had his shooting boots on the score could have been more.

Also worth noting that he puts players in because he trusts them. Take Axel last night. No doubt one of the biggest games of his career. The snipers are out, the vultures are circling, every week a new crisis at Utd. He steps in and plays like has been there for the last 60 games. Revisionists will tell you Jose used to do the same thing. Jose would throw players in to make a public statement to the board i.e. McTomminay and then he would throw other players under the bus. You don't need to be a life coach or leading business manager to understand that you get better performance and results when everyone is rowing the boat in the same direction. Would you prefer how Ole is managing Greenwood for his misdemeanours or the way Jose is trying to publicly provoke Delle Ali into a reaction and performance.

My criticism of Ole, and this is an area where he needs to improve is get better at managing the troughs. When we go through a bad patch it quite often is a BAD patch and it takes a two or three game bounce to get it back on course. You got stuffed under Fergie, you got a reaction usually next game. Same with all leading coaches. He needs to minimise the pick up time between losses and bad performances. That can only come from consistency of performance on the pitch.

Lets make no bones about it, Utd have a Lot of catching up to Liverpool and City. Whether Ole is the right man to do that, only the fullness of time will tell us but if he gets the bullet today tomorrow or in five years but I dare say the club purely from a footballing perspective will be in a much stronger position than when Jose, LVG, Moyes were shown the door. I am not going to get carried away with last nights result. Great team performance all things considered. Nor am I a too concerned about the spurs result in the bigger context of this season.
Very good post.

My problem with Ole is perhaps he is too loyal with certain players, playing Matic and Pogba in a two, comes to mind. Perhaps he was trying to get Pogba to play himself back into form, but that patently hasn't worked, as the first three Prem matches will testify. He is still a young, relatively inexperienced manager/coach, and so are his staff, and there is no reason why they can't develop the finer points of coaching/tactics/strategies as their young squad plays more matches.
There are fewer pre Ole players in the squad now, so he is starting to get his own squad together.
 

TheDoc

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I think we're heading in the right direction. We're back in the Champions League competing against the best, and at 55% win ratio since he took over. Considering the mess we were back then and also our misfortunes with injuries being amplified by the lack of depth last season, in short how toothless we were until Bruno came in, that's quite impressive. Also, I'm happy with recruitment since he arrived and several of our players have improved under him as well. The squad too (with few exceptions) are showing the right attitude, which is reflected in the results. Our form these last eight months have been impressive even by United standards and though we started this season with some horrid results these last two games were a joy to behold.

Ole is probably the best we've had since Ferguson, and even if it all falls apart from here and he ends up short then he'll at least made the job a lot easier for whomever comes next. I think everyone should agree that there are enough positives for him to have earned our respect, if nothing else. At least to me there is. I made a list of expectations over time, and so far he's checked every box. Every single one in fact, and even surpassed one (though I admit us finishing third last season was quite lucky).

Even though it's still early days and I remain somewhat reserved, he's lived up to my expectations and earned my support. I'm even quite hopeful this will continue.
 
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90 + 5min

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I think the progress is very difficult to be measured, but if we measure it according to performance and titles, we certainly play a better football than JM football but not good enough to be up there with Liverpool and City. We did not win any major and minor trophy. In total it is an underwhelming season the only good thing is finishing 3rd with a historically low points count for a team finishing 3rd. For me it was not a bad season, but not a good one either.
It really isn't. You look at where we were last couple of seasons and where we are now and you see progress. Same goes the other way. We could see how quickly we went from top to near top. And I am not just talking about results on pitch. I'm talking about club as total.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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It really isn't. You look at where we were last couple of seasons and where we are now and you see progress. Same goes the other way. We could see how quickly we went from top to near top. And I am not just talking about results on pitch. I'm talking about club as total.
There is not much progress with the results though and that is what matters. Not that we have more names people like in the lineup each week.
It might change this season though since we look good very recently and maybe our new players will give us a boost.

We still look like a fighting for top 4 team. Just like we did under Mourinho and LVG.
I wish we could go higher, but I don't really see it even if I wish for a title.
 

sammsky1

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This video is such a wonderful trip down memory lane.

Easy to forget Ole was able to score every type of goal, had an amazing first touch and his positional play was telepathic. Also amazing how he was able to adapt and thrive in so many different teams and systems and with different strike partners.

OleOUTers desperately want to negate this vast experience Ole possesses from playing and winning at Manchester United. And yet these experiences are baked into the decision to appoint him and make Ole who he is.

Its just a matter of time until he will reproduce this kind of trophy winning football as our manager

 

L1nk

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This video is such a wonderful trip down memory lane.

Easy to forget Ole was able to score every type of goal, had an amazing first touch and his positional play was telepathic. Also amazing how he was able to adapt and thrive in so many different teams and systems and with different strike partners.

OleOUTers desperately want to negate this vast experience Ole possesses from playing and winning at Manchester United. And yet these experiences are baked into the decision to appoint him and make Ole who he is.

Its just a matter of time until he will reproduce this kind of trophy winning football as our manager

I genuinely cannot tell if you are on a wind up at this point
 

Jazmodo

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Hey all (Admins?) - I'm not sure this is possible, but could a graph be created plotting the changing opinion on the CAF on this poll over time?

It'd be interesting to see, at a glance, how people's opinions have shifted :)

I'm still in the 'Ole at the Helm' position - I refuse to change my vote... Yet!
 

Bebestation

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This video is such a wonderful trip down memory lane.

Easy to forget Ole was able to score every type of goal, had an amazing first touch and his positional play was telepathic. Also amazing how he was able to adapt and thrive in so many different teams and systems and with different strike partners.

OleOUTers desperately want to negate this vast experience Ole possesses from playing and winning at Manchester United. And yet these experiences are baked into the decision to appoint him and make Ole who he is.

Its just a matter of time until he will reproduce this kind of trophy winning football as our manager

One of the reasons I have hope for him was because he was a player that was on the bench alot of the time and had always seemed to spot a weakness enough to score a goal.

I hope that's true and as a manager on the bench I hope he has the ability to see weaknesses in both us & the opposition enough to make changes that need to be done to help us grab a victory.

Saw it as a player & hope to see it as a manager. Not been the happiest all his time here with his tactics but there seems to be some changes happening recently.
 

cptkeane1993

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This video is such a wonderful trip down memory lane.

Easy to forget Ole was able to score every type of goal, had an amazing first touch and his positional play was telepathic. Also amazing how he was able to adapt and thrive in so many different teams and systems and with different strike partners.

OleOUTers desperately want to negate this vast experience Ole possesses from playing and winning at Manchester United. And yet these experiences are baked into the decision to appoint him and make Ole who he is.

Its just a matter of time until he will reproduce this kind of trophy winning football as our manager

Beautiful, thanks for the reminder
 

Cantonagotmehere

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The Glazers have turned me into a manager spaz. Just went back to Ole 'in'. The lack of good stewardship makes me jump the gun on a manager change because I hope it can make things better faster. I need to learn I guess. I do love Ole, but if he struggles I do think there are a couple good options out there and I'll probably switch again.
 

wolvored

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Imo a manager should be able to build a team and imprint his style tactics etc within 2 seasons. This season if he gets to the end he will have had his 2 seasons, so if we're still nowhere near the top more than 8 points and if we don't make top 4 especially then he has to go. Let's see where we are after Chelsea Leipzig and Arsenal before we think we have turned a corner. We can't judge after 2 games the same as we couldn't judge after the opening 3, but if he comes out with 2 wins and a draw, then he might just be onto something.
 

Flexdegea

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Imo a manager should be able to build a team and imprint his style tactics etc within 2 seasons. This season if he gets to the end he will have had his 2 seasons, so if we're still nowhere near the top more than 8 points and if we don't make top 4 especially then he has to go. Let's see where we are after Chelsea Leipzig and Arsenal before we think we have turned a corner. We can't judge after 2 games the same as we couldn't judge after the opening 3, but if he comes out with 2 wins and a draw, then he might just be onto something.


He already has imprinted his style and tactics on the team. Its quite obvious. He pragmatic, and can set the team up different ways depending on the opposition.

Losing matches or not being top of the table doesnt mean he hasnt done these things.

He clearly built a team as well, and is trying to add to what hes got. We've been hampered there by the Woodward inability to shift players on, and bring in players that the manager wants. But look at how much deadwood we have moved on, and how much youth we are playing in the team.

The whole turned a corner bit I keep hearing on this board is so stupid as well. It means people are either massively overeating the team and expect us to literally do a liverpool and win every game, or it's just a way to keep moving the goalposts for Ole ie he must beat this team and that team to show he turned a corner. From January the team clearly turned a corner. The bad start this season is unfortunate, but we look to be getting back to the form we shown.


I'm not going to base the whole season on next 3 games. I'd rather see what nick we are in at the end of the season. Long long season ahead.
 

rotherham_red

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He already has imprinted his style and tactics on the team. Its quite obvious. He pragmatic, and can set the team up different ways depending on the opposition.

Losing matches or not being top of the table doesnt mean he hasnt done these things.

He clearly built a team as well, and is trying to add to what hes got. We've been hampered there by the Woodward inability to shift players on, and bring in players that the manager wants. But look at how much deadwood we have moved on, and how much youth we are playing in the team.

The whole turned a corner bit I keep hearing on this board is so stupid as well. It means people are either massively overeating the team and expect us to literally do a liverpool and win every game, or it's just a way to keep moving the goalposts for Ole ie he must beat this team and that team to show he turned a corner. From January the team clearly turned a corner. The bad start this season is unfortunate, but we look to be getting back to the form we shown.


I'm not going to base the whole season on next 3 games. I'd rather see what nick we are in at the end of the season. Long long season ahead.
Absolutely, and I don't know where this mentality of judging from game to game, or even minute to minute within games has come from. It certainly wasn't around in 2005.
 

Judas

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Hey all (Admins?) - I'm not sure this is possible, but could a graph be created plotting the changing opinion on the CAF on this poll over time?

It'd be interesting to see, at a glance, how people's opinions have shifted :)

I'm still in the 'Ole at the Helm' position - I refuse to change my vote... Yet!
You don't need a graph to tell you when people wanted him out and when he was getting the most support. It's gone with the results. This thread was at its most negative when we were at our worst.
 

FatherWolff

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Imo a manager should be able to build a team and imprint his style tactics etc within 2 seasons. This season if he gets to the end he will have had his 2 seasons, so if we're still nowhere near the top more than 8 points and if we don't make top 4 especially then he has to go. Let's see where we are after Chelsea Leipzig and Arsenal before we think we have turned a corner. We can't judge after 2 games the same as we couldn't judge after the opening 3, but if he comes out with 2 wins and a draw, then he might just be onto something.
Im not sure what you are demanding here. If should make his imprint after two seasons? Absolutely! He already have IMO. But to get closer to a challenge is depending on multiple things, are they not? We are still a team made of three managers. We lack several pieces in our squad. Our rivals strengthening the way they have, and we not bringing in a single player of the managers targets actually leaves us further behind. I theory anyway. I don’t get this need for making everything black and white. At least now we have some options on the bench, so it’s something..
 

wolvored

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Im not sure what you are demanding here. If should make his imprint after two seasons? Absolutely! He already have IMO. But to get closer to a challenge is depending on multiple things, are they not? We are still a team made of three managers. We lack several pieces in our squad. Our rivals strengthening the way they have, and we not bringing in a single player of the managers targets actually leaves us further behind. I theory anyway. I don’t get this need for making everything black and white. At least now we have some options on the bench, so it’s something..
Im on about any manager not Ole that has to be judged over 2 seasons. Regarding Ole, but this is any manager as well, the knee jerk reactions after the first 3 games he was shit and 2 games later hes the messiah. Thats why I said lets see if he can build on that in the next 3 games, get a run going. My thinking was longer term over 2 years to judge. If we are a lot closer to the top and finish top 4 again at least, then of course he should be given another contract. If we are worse off and out of the top 4, even if we won one of the domestic cups, then we should be looking for a new manager.
 

wolvored

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He already has imprinted his style and tactics on the team. Its quite obvious. He pragmatic, and can set the team up different ways depending on the opposition.

Losing matches or not being top of the table doesnt mean he hasnt done these things.

He clearly built a team as well, and is trying to add to what hes got. We've been hampered there by the Woodward inability to shift players on, and bring in players that the manager wants. But look at how much deadwood we have moved on, and how much youth we are playing in the team.

The whole turned a corner bit I keep hearing on this board is so stupid as well. It means people are either massively overeating the team and expect us to literally do a liverpool and win every game, or it's just a way to keep moving the goalposts for Ole ie he must beat this team and that team to show he turned a corner. From January the team clearly turned a corner. The bad start this season is unfortunate, but we look to be getting back to the form we shown.


I'm not going to base the whole season on next 3 games. I'd rather see what nick we are in at the end of the season. Long long season ahead.
Ive answered this on the post above, what I was trying to get at
 

Flexdegea

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Absolutely, and I don't know where this mentality of judging from game to game, or even minute to minute within games has come from. It certainly wasn't around in 2005.

Its bizarre. You got normal folk setting up goal posts, to then agree with it if they arent met like he needs this game or that game, its his first real test.



How many tests does he need, tbh he passed a good few tests already. Champs league finish was the massive one and done that, even more impressive with the manner how the team qualified. It's nothing special, its just high finish in the league, but was done with the pressure on everyone.

His big game record is very good as well so he passed that test too. We started tanking teams who parked the bus from January on wards, seems to have passed that test too.

Getting shot of deadwood another.

Only other tests I can think of is actually winning trophies. Winning league in next 3 years should be a test too, but anyone setting it for this season has already set a impossible bar imo
 

SirNicholas33

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Its more successful than keeping managers for 10 years.
Sure, you also don’t want to stick with the wrong guy for too long. It’s difficult to thread this needle. But culture is a problem here and has been since Fergie retired. The culture walked out the door with him (and Gill). 8 seasons of revolving door at manager. It’s 100 percent unsustainable.
 

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Why can't we have a more neutral option - assess at the end of the season or "on the fence" ?
 

Shark

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We simply cannot keep sacking managers every 2-3 years. That sort of culture is unhealthy and unsustainable.
It's worked for Chelsea relatively well. AVB was a mistake but they pulled the plug timely to then go onto winning titles with Conte and Jose. Problem with our club is it takes yonks to realise we've made a mistake and have stuck with managers going nowhere for too long.

Liverpool also sacked a great manager in BR to move to the next level with Klopp.
 
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passing-wind

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Sacking the managers doesn't matter fans need to get rid of this notion. The assumption that every top manager will have been at their current clubs for numerous season is simply not true, the only two managers who barely scrape it into such a description are Klopp / Guardiola. Many have this ideology that Solskjaer will be here for the next decade and its a metric based on emotive sentiment because the reality is its highly unlikely.

Sacking managers isn't an issue when there's a DOF because the direction of the club and the team should be consistent when the hierarchy have a definite plan. Our issue is if we adopt this approach we give all the power and impetus to the manager. We could go from a pragmatic Solskjaer to a more attack minded coach and yet again need to pull apart the team to fulfill the managers obligations whereas a DOF will give us more consistency in transitioning between coaches.
 

georgipep

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Sacking the managers doesn't matter fans need to get rid of this notion. The assumption that every top manager will have been at their current clubs for numerous season is simply not true, the only two managers who barely scrape it into such a description are Klopp / Guardiola. Many have this ideology that Solskjaer will be here for the next decade and its a metric based on emotive sentiment because the reality is its highly unlikely.

Sacking managers isn't an issue when there's a DOF because the direction of the club and the team should be consistent when the hierarchy have a definite plan. Our issue is if we adopt this approach we give all the power and impetus to the manager. We could go from a pragmatic Solskjaer to a more attack minded coach and yet again need to pull apart the team to fulfill the managers obligations whereas a DOF will give us more consistency in transitioning between coaches.
Ok, let me counter that. What happens if you do have a DOF and a few managers in a row do not bring the desired results? Do you sack the DOF? If so, what happens after a second DOF fails in the same manner (his few appointed managers do not succeed)? Is the sacking ever not a good strategy?
 

Jazmodo

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You don't need a graph to tell you when people wanted him out and when he was getting the most support. It's gone with the results. This thread was at its most negative when we were at our worst.
Fair enough, good point :D

Woodward (and the Glazers, pretty please!) should go even considering Ole :devil:
 

FatherWolff

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Ask yourself this! When was the last time you where this exited before a game!? Every game.

Yes, I know we can be shit. And I know we can be great. We can loose to anyone, but we can also beat everyone. Inconsistent is what it is to be a young footballer. Even a transitional team. It can’t go on forever, but for now it is ok.
If you are not relishing playing Chelsea tomorrow there is something wrong with you! We might even win.
 

Jazmodo

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Ask yourself this! When was the last time you where this exited before a game!? Every game.

Yes, I know we can be shit. And I know we can be great. We can loose to anyone, but we can also beat everyone. Inconsistent is what it is to be a young footballer. Even a transitional team. It can’t go on forever, but for now it is ok.
If you are not relishing playing Chelsea tomorrow there is something wrong with you! We might even win.
Amen buddy, spot on.

Ole is the first manager since Fergie that I enjoy game in, game out, and I'll let him off for Tottenham - even Fergie lost 6-1 once (bloody Jonny Evans...)
 

lysglimt

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It's worked for Chelsea relatively well. AVB was a mistake but they pulled the plug timely to then go onto winning titles with Conte and Jose. Problem with our club is it takes yonks to realise we've made a mistake and have stuck with managers going nowhere for too long.

Liverpool also sacked a great manager in BR to move to the next level with Klopp.
If you the season after being inches away from winning the league, start the season with 6 defeats in 12, and finish the season with 5 defeats in 9. Before starting the next season with 12 points from 8 matches - maybe your time as a manager is up in a club ? Brendan Rodgers had to go - but you can hardly call his last 12 months at Liverpool anything other than a disaster.
 

lysglimt

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Amen buddy, spot on.

Ole is the first manager since Fergie that I enjoy game in, game out, and I'll let him off for Tottenham - even Fergie lost 6-1 once (bloody Jonny Evans...)
What was so F annoying about that game. If we had put every player in defence after Fletcher scored 1-3, we would have won the league that year. They beat us by 8 GD - and 6 of those goals came in that game. And if we had played for GD in those last 2 games against Swansea and Sunderland, we would have scored the necessary goals to beat City on GD
 
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