Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?

  • Sack Ole & appoint new coach ASAP

  • Keep Ole & back him to finish rebuild


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Greck

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They still played us off the park over 180 minutes, though. The 180 minutes of this season we looked like we took the game to them, and I like that. I can identify with that as how Manchester United is meant to play in Europe.
Fair enough. Was more consumed by the thought of heading back to the wretched Europa cup
 

AshRK

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Of course it's easy to say that in hindsight. Everyone knows that I am Ole out but he can't compensate for the stupidity of Fred. I really don't think it would make any difference if he took off Fred.
Yes going all out defense and counter attack is an option he could have used.
But just to point out why I think he left Fred was in the first half they counter attack us. AWB was just jogging back and Fred who was not even in the frame sprinted back to cover.
The other point is should we have ever let them counter attack?
I wouldn't have played three forwards at all. I would have played only two up front. This is not in hindsight but I have said this pre match.
I agree although we did create good chances and took the game to them but we were too open. This is where his lack of game management is costing us. You have to be smart also.
 

VP89

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Fair enough. Was more consumed by the thought of heading back to the wretched Europa cup
Just have to be optimistic. Ole has a good team to his disposal and he should be capable of a result.
I've been critical of Ole but I think in Europe he's bought a lot of goodwill by beating PSG and Leipzig. An off day vs Istanbul and bad luck today doesn't change that. If he puts the right system out against Leipzig and just learns from today by way of subs, we should be through.

Of course if he fecks up the team and doesn't make changes, and we get smashed - then fair enough :lol:
 

theklr

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I agree although we did create good chances and took the game to them but we were too open. This is where his lack of game management is costing us. You have to be smart also.
Reason we were open were that Axel were suspended and Shaw was injured more or less. Otherwise we would play 3-5-2 and control the game much better.
 

MrBest

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How long does it take a manager to rebuild a squad? 2 years? 5 years? 10 years? How long should we give Ole until he has rebuilt us? Lampard, Mourinho, Klopp, Pep, hassenhalt, rodgers, ancelotti and arteta are 9 examples of managers who are rebuilding. How do you benchmark what Ole has done versus them. Surely, and this is my view, he is only doing better than Arteta although he has just had 12 months snd Ancelotti 8 or so months but you can see the progression in football they play. We play eye drying football that makes me want to cry but my eyes are so dry, there is nothing left. Ole has to go.
 

Will Singh

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Pointless arguing as it’s obvious by now is that he’s target is top 4 and that’s it. We could have the worlds best managers knocking on our door to work for free but the club still won’t budge the stubborn cnuts!
 

passing-wind

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I'm going to reserve judgement totally until the end of the seasonal campaign but this lack of consistency for me is why Solskjaer is NOT a viable manager in the long term.

We win less than 4 games on the trot (all the Ole fans sing and gloat) we get defeated before building consistency and the cycle repeats itself over and over again.
 

Foxbatt

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Most of us know that he is not a top notch coach so why are we shocked that we messed up?
We may beat Liepzig but I don't have any expectations just because we beat them 5-0.
Just the same that Spurs are going to beat us 5-0 in London. It was a one off.
 

ForeverRed1

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Not the best manager we could have but he has done a good job building a foundation. He’s got rid of a lot of the deadwood and has made some fairly decent signings. Who knows if he can push on and win things but one thing is for sure... the next manager has a much better start than any other manager since fergie.

He has to win something this season. We have to stay in the running for the league (if not win it) and we have to be in champions league next season or he has to go. That’s the bare minimum.
 

Ed9

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Problem is you don't get any points for being competitive, we actually need to start turning performances into results. The Sevilla game and again tonight makes me doubt our potential mettle in Europe and I absolutely do not want another year in the EL.
Me niether so let's wait and see, we're still in it.
 

Zoo

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not only every person in the world knew he must make changes, his players were begging him to change. But he was playing candy crush on his ipad.:lol:
Funny but wrong. Rashford had done his shoulder and was struggling, Bruno was pointing it out.
 

meamth

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Reactionary.

We had an easy game, players didn't bury it, get fecked, blame Ole.

"Insert whining face" OLE SHOULD'VE TAKE FRED OFF THE FIELD!! INEPT!
 

Paul_Scholes18

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Me niether so let's wait and see, we're still in it.
The only good thing with Europa league is that we should be one of the favorites to win it and so could win that trophy. Next after Spurs and Real Madrid if they fail to qualify.
 

bond19821982

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Bruno is a player who can play awful but win you a game, so you can forgive me if I'm not hounding Ole for making a supposedly "obvious" move in taking Bruno off (assuming you think it's an obvious move here).


I don't even think we were trying to go for a killer goal as such, we were just exploiting gaps that PSG left from their defensive negligence. We weren't gung-ho attacking and we weren't playing on a counter either.
If taking AWB off wasn't for a killer goal, what exactly was that for ?
 

OleBoiii

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With Mourinho, Pep and Klopp being out of the picture, are there better options out there than Ole? Maybe. I don't know. None of us do.

What I do know is that this team is not good enough to achieve long term success. Not with this attack. Not with only one top class player in the entire squad. Relative to his players, Ole is doing just fine as far as I'm concerned. I also like to watch our football when we click. And I like that our manager isn't a total mess when dealing with the media.

PL and CL trophies are ultimately the most important part, but to get there we need the right foundations. I know that we don't have the players for this. I don't know if the coach is a problem. Therefore I choose to focus on the former of the two. At least until our results are worse than what our squad reflects.
 

Duncan the Great

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Why do we have a manager that constantly needs to learn on the job?
Agree 100%. It is too big a job for him and definitely not a post for someone to learn on the job, that is done in lower leagues where the mistakes made don't cost millions. You will find that teams at this level who constantly over perform invariably have a very experience manager at the helm. Yes Ole is a legend but as a player not a head coach.
We shouldn't wait till the end of the season to make the inevitable decision, we do have a decent squad but their talent's are being wasted and confidence lost through poor team selections and naïve tactics that highlight the shortcomings of Ole and his coaching team. The writing has been on the wall long enough for the powers that be to have drawn up a shortlist of candidates and even thrown out feelers to the contacts of the preferred target.
 

Nou_Camp99

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Anyone. If the next manager fails to deliver them 2 or 3 years in charge everyone will want him gone. Story in any big club really.

But anyway I'm still asking what's the general expectations from this season ? What did you want going into this season ?
Think you might be missing some context there. We were left way more than 2 years away from major trophies. Ole if he goes will leave us in much better shape than we were in. The squad is a lot better now.

And he's got 1 less point than Klopp since Bruno joined. We have shown consistency. We won't win every game though. Our fans don't understand this.
 

lilcurt

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How is this even a question at this point. I don't understand how people are happy to continue to let this guy learn on the job.

Another day-one mistake today in leaving Fred on the pitch at HT and then waiting so long to make any changes. Just another example in the long line of poor managerial decisions.
 

Bebestation

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Ole definitely deserves some of the blame - but there is still that small feeling inside of me that our problems came today from not having a CDM.

We had 2 midfielders instead of a CDM, a reckless midfield challenger acting like a CDM, one less creative CM which allowed Bruno to get marked out of the game, less balls being spread across and having the ability to create and take our chances as a team with a consistency to our core.

I really loved the football I saw today, PSG looked absolutely nothing in the second half until that traditional corner goal that happens against us.


Even if people are tired of Ole, I'd wait until January until he picks out a CDM - for his own good chances to progress and if not for the next manager to have a near wonderful bunch of players ready made like a CDM aswell.
 

Foxbatt

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Reason we were open were that Axel were suspended and Shaw was injured more or less. Otherwise we would play 3-5-2 and control the game much better.
There is more than one way to skin a cat. We could have gone with a 4 man midfield and not given them the space in midfield nor to counter attack us. I have no idea why we were attacking them with our Fb so high up the pitch before they scored. They played us like pasties by getting us to attack them. We should have never gone with a three man attack.
 

Caesar2290

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With Mourinho, Pep and Klopp being out of the picture, are there better options out there than Ole? Maybe. I don't know. None of us do.

What I do know is that this team is not good enough to achieve long term success. Not with this attack. Not with only one top class player in the entire squad. Relative to his players, Ole is doing just fine as far as I'm concerned. I also like to watch our football when we click. And I like that our manager isn't a total mess when dealing with the media.

PL and CL trophies are ultimately the most important part, but to get there we need the right foundations. I know that we don't have the players for this. I don't know if the coach is a problem. Therefore I choose to focus on the former of the two. At least until our results are worse than what our squad reflects.
Surely you jest. I can name you 5 of the top of my head.
 

DRJosh

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A few armchair observations:

(1) Apart from Cavani, there isn't a proper out and out goal poacher in our entire squad.

(2) Fred is great at what he does in disrupting play and opposition flow, but he isn't the best ball distributor or the most composed.

(3) Ole is using the United job to learn what managing at the highest level entails. We shouldn't have a manager who is himself an 'apprentice' (to put it bluntly) when it comes to high stake games.

(4) Pogba has sporadic flashes of brilliance and for that we are paying an arm and a leg in wages.
 

AshRK

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How long does it take a manager to rebuild a squad? 2 years? 5 years? 10 years? How long should we give Ole until he has rebuilt us? Lampard, Mourinho, Klopp, Pep, hassenhalt, rodgers, ancelotti and arteta are 9 examples of managers who are rebuilding. How do you benchmark what Ole has done versus them. Surely, and this is my view, he is only doing better than Arteta although he has just had 12 months snd Ancelotti 8 or so months but you can see the progression in football they play. We play eye drying football that makes me want to cry but my eyes are so dry, there is nothing left. Ole has to go.
He is not doing that bad to be fair but ofcourse today is not the day Ole outers will listen so I am not going to bother to write a huge essay.
 

Bastian

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He is not doing that bad to be fair but ofcourse today is not the day Ole outers will listen so I am not going to bother to write a huge essay.
Oh there is plenty of middle ground. As an interim manager over an extended period he's doing a relatively good job. As a permanent manager he's not close to what we need. Were he to get sacked at the end of the season I'd still look back on his time here fondly and be positive that a top manager can get us up another level with the players available.
 

lsd

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How long does it take a manager to rebuild a squad? 2 years? 5 years? 10 years? How long should we give Ole until he has rebuilt us? Lampard, Mourinho, Klopp, Pep, hassenhalt, rodgers, ancelotti and arteta are 9 examples of managers who are rebuilding. How do you benchmark what Ole has done versus them. Surely, and this is my view, he is only doing better than Arteta although he has just had 12 months snd Ancelotti 8 or so months but you can see the progression in football they play. We play eye drying football that makes me want to cry but my eyes are so dry, there is nothing left. Ole has to go.

You would have sacked Fergie after 2 years
 

AshRK

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Oh there is plenty of middle ground. As an interim manager over an extended period he's doing a relatively good job. As a permanent manager he's not close to what we need. Were he to get sacked at the end of the season I'd still look back on his time here fondly and be positive that a top manager can get us up another level with the players available.
I always say this but his game management makes me feel uncomfortable. I understand for him the game should be fun and exciting and we could see that today. If I were a neutral I would have given this game 5 out of 5. Top and exciting game but as a manager of the club he should know when to become pragmatic and change things up. He missed that today.

I am not going to sit here and say we solely lost the game because of him. Martial has to take his chance, fred has to act smart. But Ole had to manage the game better.
 

Phil

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Oh there is plenty of middle ground. As an interim manager over an extended period he's doing a relatively good job. As a permanent manager he's not close to what we need. Were he to get sacked at the end of the season I'd still look back on his time here fondly and be positive that a top manager can get us up another level with the players available.
This is exactly it for me.
 

FatherWolff

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:lol::lol: just finished watching the game replay. Wtf are you all whining about? The world is a strange place Ole outers! I take a lot of positive from that game! We lost, and I can take it on the chin. Should have won, but we lost. Stop being so soft and melodramatic!
 

R'hllor

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From someone whos name nobody mentioned here after JM sacking to top 5 managers in the world, now thats some next level stuff. Nevermind that, just finished watching replay and we had our moments, how Fred survived first time will never know, how he wasnt subbed early, will never know aswell. You could see miles away that he is on a edge for some reason. Subs and timing of them werent great either.
 

lex talionis

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Martial and Fred cost us the points, but Ole has to learn from this experience that when a player is out of control and on a yellow card (which should have been red), that player needs to come off ASAP. But at the end of the day, Martial has to take the lion's share of responsibility for tapping in a sitter into an open net.
 

OleBoiii

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Hypothetically: if we finish top 4 but the distance up the title winners is just 10 points(+/ 2 points give or take), do you still think we should sack Ole? You don't think he can challenge for titles with a better squad?
 

Footy van de Geek

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In fairness toward Ole, whilst doubting him as a long term at the club, I don't think even doubters like me can argue with the fact that he's taken the club to a better place than where it was before he joined. And that he's brought in players that fit the ethos of the club, and one that fans would identify with too. I don't think Dalglish even did that @Footy van de Geek
I'm personally not the biggest fan of Maguire or AWB. They don't fit with the style that I like to see from my team.

I like a CB to be mobile and able to defend 1 vs 1. Bailly and Tuanzebe can do these things, but aren't able to stay fit and are inferior aerially. McGrath, Pallister, Stam and Rio could all defend 1 vs 1. Good athleticism to go with their reading of the game. You need that from a top CB. Bruce and Vidić were dominant in the air like Maguire can be, but better at it. Especially at attacking the ball. Maguire has wasted several chances from corners.

As for AWB, outstanding in 1 vs 1 defensive duels. But his attacking play is average at best. I would take a TAA over an AWB.

Bruno and vdB are very good signings. Ole doesn't know what to do with the latter. Cavani should be a good stopgap for 2 years and add some extra experience to the forward line.

And I like signings like Amad Diallo who is a long term signing with a high ceiling.


That fall precipitated Ole. It's not because of Ole that it has occurred. We were on our knees when he came in, and it genuinely looked and felt like the club was breaking apart at the seams. I was there at every game, home and away, so I have a good grasp of the fan feeling at the time as well. I'd never seen the atmosphere be as toxic as it was during the latter stages of Jose. Never.
Ole came in and gave an initial lift. The players were happy to be rid of Mourinho and to show him up. That didn't last long. What happened from the Arsenal defeat in March until the signing of Bruno was as bad as anything witnessed post Ferguson. 18 defeats between March 10th 2019 and February 1st 2020 (Bruno debut). Mourinho lost 28 games over an almost 31 month spell in charge. Ole got close to 20 in just 11 months.

What we are doing now, is building ourselves back up but it will take time. He's improved a lot of the players he's inherited, which predominantly wasn't the case with LvG and Jose (and the less said about Moyes the better), he's also been the first post-SAF manager who is actually doing a rebuild and not just tacking on his players to an already bloated squad. All of these measures take time, and they take even longer when you have one of the youngest squads and teams in the league and when you have to deal with a board like ours and Covid on top of everything else.
Giving De Gea a massive salary to go with his contract extension is what I would call tacking on a player. That was a terrible decision. We will probably never be able to shift De Gea who is a massive problem. He has contributed to many of Ole's defeats, yet he stands by him.

Ighalo is another one tacked on. We didn't need to extend his loan. The lockdown actually benefitted us, as we were able to get Pogba and Rashford back in time for the restart. We only brought him in due to being light up front heading into months of no Rashford. But nope, we extended him loan deal as some sort of PR stunt because he was deemed a likeable character and it's a feel good story for the club to milk. But Ighalo isn't here for free, he's reportedly on over 100k a week. Yet he can't even make a match squad most weeks since the restart over the summer.

Brandon Williams got a new contract with a salary increase. He has barely used him this season. If the reports about Ole and his staff now realising that Brandon might not have the potential they once thought, then that's another surplus player we have tied ourselves to for years. There aren't many midtable clubs who will be able to afford his wages. He might not want to take a lower wage elsewhere should we look to move him on next year.

It’s not really that young, is it?
  • De Gea - 30 - almost 600 career appearances (PL winner, FA Cup winner, LC winner, EL winner)
  • Romero - 33 years old - 96 caps for Argentina and played in a WC final (Eredivisie winner, FA Cup winner, LC winner, EL winner)
  • Maguire - 27 years old - 100+ PL appearances and played in a WC semi final
  • Lindelöf - 26 years old - Almost 400 career appearances (Primeira Liga winner & Taca de Portugal winner)
  • Shaw - 25 years old - 150+ PL appearances (LC winner, EL winner)
  • Telles - Almost 28 years old - Nearly 50 EL & CL appearances (Süper Lig winner, Turkish Cup winner x2, Liga Primeira winner x2, Taca de Portugal winner)
  • Matić - 32 years old - 200+ PL appearances (Primeira Liga winner, PL winner x 2, LC winner)
  • Pogba - 27 years old - 400+ career appearances (WC winner, Serie A winner x4, Copa Italia winner x2, LC winner, EL winner)
  • Fred - 27 years old - 50+ EL & CL appearances (Ukrainian PL x 3, Ukrainian Cup x3)
  • vdB - 23 years old - 200+ career appearances (Eredivisie winner, KNVB Cup winner)
  • Bruno - 26 years old - 100+ Serie A appearances (Taca de Portugal winner, Taca de Liga winner x2, Nations League winner)
  • Mata - 32 years old - Scored in a European Championship final (WC winner, EC winner, CL winner, EL winner x2, FA Cup winner x 2, EL winner, Copa del Rey winner)
  • Rashford - 23 years old - 250+ career appearances (FA Cup winner, LC winner, EL winner)
  • Martial - 25 years old in 2 days - 300+ career appearances (FA Cup winner, LC winner, EL winner)
  • Cavani - 33 years old - 700+ career appearances (Copa América winner, Copa Italia winner, Ligue 1 winner x 6, Coupe de France winner x4, PSG all time top goalscorer)
  • Ighalo - 31 years old - 400+ career appearances (AFCON golden boot winner 2019)
I’d consider Henderson (23), Williams (20), AWB (23), Tuanzebe (23), TFM (22) McTominay (23), James (23) and Greenwood (19) as the young or inexperienced squad members who feature. Players with less than 100 PL appearances. Mengi and Pellistri might join this group.

Of that group, AWB, McTominay and Greenwood are the only regulars. McTominay isn't that even young, he just lacks games at this level.

And I didn’t mention other experienced players out favour/injured like Rojo (30), Jones (28), Bailly (26) and Lingard (27).


The players are also still very early in their development. There will be inconsistency issues, which is what we're dealing with right now but the stats bear it out that we're improving on this front also. The window for leeway on this front however, is closing, and by the end of this season and the start of next, it needs to be accomplished. Though, that is also dependent on Ole being given the players that he needs, and for two consecutive summers now, he's not really been given all that he's asked for and needed. The first summer, we went without a striker to replace Lukaku and a proper midfield presence for the first 6 months. The second summer, needs no mention (Sancho, Grealish and a CB + LB were sought - only one of these came in).
Now you're talking sense. Our squad is coming to its peak over the next 18 months. Lots of our players are in their prime years or just past it (De Gea, Maguire, Fred, Pogba, Bruno, Martial, Cavani). Greenwood and AWB still have time to develop, but the starting XI in general is getting close to the average age of 26/27 that you usually see from a starting XI that wins titles.

Welcome to the life of a football manager. You don't always get who you what. Ferguson missed out on several players throughout his career (Shearer, Ronaldinho, Essien, Robben, Hazard). That's why the anayltics team put together a list of 3-5 candidates for a desired position and you work from there. For example, Max Aarons was touted as an alternative to AWB if we could't sign him. We didn't get Sancho, so we signed two younger and cheaper alternatives in Pellistri and Amad Diallo. If either can fulfill their potential, we will have saved a lot of money on Sancho. We didn't sign Grealish, but landed vdB. The only way Grealish gets into our 4-2-3-1 is if Ole decided to drop Rashford or move him to RW permanently. The other option would be a 4-3-3 with Bruno and Grealish ahead of a lone anchorman. Ole clearly doesn't like that idea, as he hasn't tried Pogba or vdB with Bruno in a three. He's no different to any other manager in missing out on targets. Moyes, LvG and Mourinho all experienced the same. During a global pandemic that affects finances, we were never going to land both Sancho and Grealish in one window. Not to worry, Greenwood can play RW/RF and we've now got two very interesting prospects in Pellistri and Amad Diallo. I can see Diallo surprising a lot of people next season.

With that in mind, Ole did a tremendous job last year and essentially condensed two seasons' worth of transition into one. The danger this season is that the progress might be stalled, but it seems this Covid season is going to be a bit of a leveller for every team. However, if he can get 4th or better this season, then he deserves to see out the next season as well (provided we aren't totally cut adrift by next Christmas) but more importantly, is finally given the players he wants and needs. So that means a new DM, a new CB, a new RW (if Diallo still needs to settle) and then if funds allow, a new ST. All of these guys need to be starters also.
If we don't get at least 75 points this season (3 extra wins), that is a very poor return after two seasons of 66 points. The title winners might only get around 82-84 points, so that would be considered closing the gap.

What you basically want is Ole to be a chequebook manager. Spend, spend, spend. Lots of United fans shit on Pep for the same thing. That's fine if they can admit that it's hypocritical should they change their tune when it comes to our spending. A GK, CB and RW are the main things missing from the starting XI. Henderson might be an in-house solution to our GK situation, and so might Greenwood at RW/RF if he can get back on track. Diallo will give Greenwood a good run for his money from the games I've seen (mainly UEFA YL). So that leaves a CB partner for Maguire as a main priority. I think it's ridiculous that we have to find someone to cover for our record breaking CB's weaknesses. But that's the reality of the situation. He's not van Dijk who could make it work with Matip, Gomez and even Lovren. He won't be going anywhere, so we might as well live with the reality of it. Tuanzebe has the skillset needed to compliment Maguire tbf, but he's probably missed too much football already at 23. I'd sign Koundé if Upamecano is considered too expensive.

And that concludes my TED Talk
 

meamth

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:lol::lol: just finished watching the game replay. Wtf are you all whining about? The world is a strange place Ole outers! I take a lot of positive from that game! We lost, and I can take it on the chin. Should have won, but we lost. Stop being so soft and melodramatic!
Exactly. :devil:

I wish I can see and enjoy their whining faces.
 

theklr

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We shouldn't wait till the end of the season to make the inevitable decision, we do have a decent squad but their talent's are being wasted and confidence lost
You can blame Ole for a lot of things, but not on players confidence. And how are him wasting talent by developing it? Rashford, Greenwood and even Martial had their best season last season. They are still young and learning.
 

bond19821982

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We needed to get a result at that stage. He was subbed off to get it back to a draw, not to get a goal to win.
And that's exactly what I meant by the killer goal. Get the goal and we are safe and hence I called it as a Killer goal. We do have one game remaining.

Now even if we win, it won't guarantee the top spot
 
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