Good post.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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@KM. Wait a god damn minute. Are you two telling me German’s player of the year was a bad signing? You guys didn’t like Bailly?
Yes Pogba was benched and it also got him sacked and he also got Ole a job. So yes hate on him if you want.
Great post - sadly it will be quickly ignored by the toxics on here that have made up their minds already.
I don't mention those examples to suggest he will be as good as them. I'm always amazed that people make that leap. Nothing in the wording of my post pointed to that at all. Certain people seem to have that response handy as some sort of catch all rebuttal and use it without even reading what they are really responding to.
My point was obvious and clear from my post. It usually takes a good amount of time to turn a struggling club into a winning one. Even fantastic managers like Klopp and SAF usually take time to turn a mess into a winning team. So taking Ole's first season results as gospel seems pretty fecking stupid. It's about the bigger picture and whether he's getting that right.
United under Ole while having similar struggles on the table as early SAF and Klopp also seem to be making the same kind of changes as they did. Getting rid of the bad players and more importantly that bad characters that hold the squad back, being conscientious, patient, long term focused with their signings, bringing through young players and instilling an ethos of pride and hard work in the players currently in the squad. Those are the first steps to turning things around and I'm happy that Ole is making them and doing it well. That's why I'm confident that given time Ole can bring success here and happy to give him time to do it.
Wanting rid of him because he can't immediately produce consistency from a paper thin injury hit squad seems insane to me. Like any manager the expectation should be gradual improvement throughout the season. That's what good coaching and management produces. You can't drastically improve players overnight. It's an ongoing process with plenty of setbacks. He's doing it with the likes of Rashford, Martial, Fred, McTomminay etc. Even Pereira has managed a couple of passable games recently.
The quick improvements will come from signing the players we need to beef up the squad and add real quality in the areas where we clearly lack it. So far he hasn't been backed with much money but the signings he's made have been excellent. We should allow him to continue.
So Kane He just picked and coached himself into the player he is today? . There was no coaching involved to develop his game? We're going to disingenuously take credit away from the job Poch did to help improve their young players and make them mainstays in the first team?
Brandon Williams was floating around in the academy likewise Greenwood. If they turns out to be great consistent first team players in the future, I'm sure you'll be the first to assign credit and praise Ole for his work in coaching them and maintaining trust in them, which would be the right thing to do. You wouldn't try and twist it and say they were already in the academy when he arrived.
As for the squad he took over, you're rewriting history here.
Was this team superior to the United team Ole took over?
Lloris
Danny Rose
Younès Kaboul
Jan Vertonghen
Tom Huddlestone
Zek Friyes
Chad Dawson
Aaron Lennon
Scott Parker
Capoue
Emmanuel Adebayor
Jamaine Defoe
Arron Lennon
Onomah
Mousah Dembele
Naughton
Kyle Walker
Clint Dempsey
Winks
Kane
Who were these guys who were in their peak and primed? Kane was a itty bitty boy at 17 years old who no one had heard of and so was Winks.
So much of those players look like deadwood to me.
The only exception young talents who were ready to be the spin of the team as you say were Walker, Erikson and Vertonghen
Poch finished 5th with that team after they finished 6th the previous season, while having them play attacking football.
Compare that to the team Ole took over which has
De Gea
Smalling
Lindelof
Tuazenbe
Darmian
Dalot
Jones
Rojo
Baily
Shaw
Young
Matic
Fred
Fellaini
Herrera
Pogba
Sanchez
Lingard
Martial
Rashford
Lukaku
With that same team we finished 6th in Ole's first half season in charge. After Ole has put his stamp on the team through pre season and signings, now we're languishing mid table, having periods where we flirt with settling in the bottom of half the table. Top 4 out of the equation where many would be ecstatic if we finished 6th again.
And you say there is no way of knowing whether Poch would have been able to replicate or improve on that
I didn't know Pochettino was managing Spurs the last 9 years since 2010
Well there you go - a very viable alternative of a manager is available.
Wonder if we're to act fast or miss out on it again.
Wonder if we're to act fast or miss out on it again.
My point is time doesn't turn an average manager into a great one, you can do all the things you have stated above and still fail to achieve anything of note if you aren't really good at what you do. Sir Alex and Klopp got the benefit of the doubt because of what they had achieved at their previous clubs as managers. The fact is, without his history as a player, Ole wouldn't even a job as Assistant Coach for the reserve team at United so this thinking that he will come good with time is based on nothing other than hope.
'Surreal' is one way to describe it - another way would be 'completely separate situation'.
We will miss out, because we have a project and a manager and not even close to sufficient reason to rip that up at the moment.
What is there to wonder? We will give Ole more time, Poch will sign for Bayern and then in march we will sack Ole.
Sadly thats so true, Woodward will wheel out the 'rebuilding project line' for as long as possible and when he finally decides to act there won't be a viable replacement available and we will go for Allegri.
It’s not about how much you enjoy the Norwegian league, it’s about the standard of the people competing in it compared with the much higher standard of people competing in the premier league.Auch. If you're not into the norwegian league, it of course means nothing, and vice versa it means everything. Somehow i therefore find that a terrible argument too..
Sounds about right.
Being 7th in the table with no chance of top 4 this season will suggest otherwise.
Jose was sacked last season for being 6th.
Jose was sacked for being a hugely obnoxious presence. the fact that we are 7th now has as much to do with him as it does with our current mgmt. team
Allegri will be in Arsenal by that time. Try Carrick.
Regardless, the results of both at the time weren't good enough and that's the main reason to sack them both.
Difference is that there are plenty of reasons to sack Ole. It‘s not that he‘s doing a great, successful job. Not saying Poch should be hired right now, but to keep Ole just for the sake of it would be a mistake.
90% of managers get their earliest opportunities due to their reputations as players. Ole got the United job through a successful audition. He was only supposed to be the caretaker but he earned the permanent job by winning a lot of games and beating several good sides. He got and opportunity and he grabbed it.
As far as I'm concerned what he did in the past is irrelevant as long as he does the right things here. And as previously stated I'm generally pretty happy with what he's doing and believe we are on the right track. There's no point in giving someone a job and then quickly dismissing them because they don't have a big enough reputation or CV. You judge them on the job they do and your expectations should actually make sense based on the situation they inherit and what they have to work with. Ole has inherited a mess caused by two managers with huge lists of achievements and great CVs and there's plenty of evidence that he's starting to fix it.
Also his career shouldn't be roadblocked because he took a risk and signed for a club as badly run as Cardiff were at the time. It was a poison chalice. Very few managers would have succeeded there. The rest of high managerial career has been decent. He won a couple of titles with Molde and they've been tough to beat in the Europa league when they've got into beating both Sevilla and Zenith St. Petersberg in the home legs of their knockout ties. He's still a young manager and he shows plenty of promise. I've seen nothing to suggest he can't do a good job here.
His best achievement is winning the league numerous times with a team who never won it in their near 100 year history, he left them in good enough shape that they have already won their league this year with games to spare. He took them to Europe and beat former European and UEFA cup winners such as Cetlic and Sevilla, and beat former league champions such as Stuggart and Fenerbahce.
With all the negativity surrounding Ole, I'm wondering what people were seriously expecting from our current squad this season? Top 6?
At the start of the season I predicted we would finish somewhere between 10th and 6th, and this was not based on Ole's ability as a manager, but more to do with the quality of our squad.
I think we've slightly over achieved without Pogba and Martial for a lot of games this season so far. And although some of our performances have been awful, there's the optimism of seeing players improve. We appear to be getting better, with the occasional poor performance. Top six could be a real possibility.
At the start of the season I predicted we would finish somewhere between 10th and 6th, and this was not based on Ole's ability as a manager, but more to do with the quality of our squad.
I think we've slightly over achieved without Pogba and Martial for a lot of games this season so far. And although some of our performances have been awful, there's the optimism of seeing players improve. We appear to be getting better, with the occasional poor performance. Top six could be a real possibility.
I guess you didn't watch the last 6-7 months of how we have been playing.
Poch has had years with that team.
Ole is still trying to fix the mess caused by LVG and Jose's 6 years of horrible recruitment. The squad has huge weaknesses and can't cope with injuries in midfield or attack.
Very different scenarios.
Ole has done well to buy some time, front three playing well and the midfield coming together better.
Poch needs a break so it will be looked at the end of the season probably.
Poch needs a break so it will be looked at the end of the season probably.
Context.
Please tell me poch is having his medical with us today... teams would crap their pants if we got him given what he did on a shoestring budget
no one fears ole plain and simple
no one fears ole plain and simple
Even fecking Spurs are more ambitious than us. But we are a laughing stock for years now so I don't expect anything else from us.
What
Wake up, ole is nowhere near good enough
What garbage , have you been brainwashed by the glazers
Wake up, ole is nowhere near good enough
Poch finished 5th in his first season with Spurs, then 3rd in his second and 2nd in his third. There's nothing to suggest Ole will reach remotely the same positions.
What context? His results are one of the worst as United manager. He has broken some records in terms of the worst start and away runs since he has been made permanent. There is good amount of data to suggest he won't make it here.
Let's not pretend everything is ok because we won against two of the worst sides in our group and league (Norwich and Partizan) and beat the mighty Brighton at home.
Context is - if we miss out on a good manager that fits the profile now - we will be asking the same question when Ole is about to get the sack once again - who will we hire as no one is available?
Short-sighted thinking IMO, but I don't expect to be able to convince you
What is the long term thinking when results again begin to sour under Ole and no top manager is available then?
I'm not even sure it would be legal to sack Solskjaer right now. A month ago, sure. Even if it is, sacking someone because someone else became available irrespective of form or progress is truly disgraceful.
They literally fired the manager "a lot" of united supporters want, and they literally hired the manager that we fired for not being good enough.
How on earth do you reach that conclusion?
Ole deserves AT LEAST 5 years, we simply cannot judge him before he buys his own 25 players. Every win (rare but happens sometimes) is a credit to Ole, every lose is because of shit players.
Firstly the end of the season suggests that the audition wasn't thorough enough and as soon as results went south he and his supporters began to blame the same players that had got him the job. The thing with Ole's backers is that all the good results belong to him and the bad results belong to the poor squad, a mess he inherited from Jose forgetting that the same same squad had finished second the season prior to that and got to a Cup final meaning that the squad isn't as bad as made out to be when results aren't going our way. The things you claim to be the right things are things that any half decent manager can do, so what he moved on a few players who hasn't? He bought a couple of good players but weren't they obvious and cost us a bomb apart from James, a punt from whom much wasn't expected?
It's pretty clear a lot of people made their minds up ages ago.
What happens when results sour under any manager ?
How are they more ambitious in hiring a manager we sacked for not being good enough ?
By not being happy having a terrible season, even though they just played a CL final a few months ago. Meanwhile we are completely fine giving inept manager untouchable status as long as we don't get relegated.
If the manager has a good track record and ability to turn it around you can back him until the point where you don't see any progress is reached.
There are numerous examples of being able to see progress right from the off.
When the manager has no track record and results are not good enough (Ole) you sack him and appoint better one. What practically every top club, and dare to say any club, does.
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