Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?

  • Sack Ole & appoint new coach ASAP

  • Keep Ole & back him to finish rebuild


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b82REZ

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Isnt everything reactionary in football? If all of our players were fit we wouldn't even consider buying anyone in January unless our number 1 pick became available, which is highly unlikely.
Noises from OT from quite early in the season was we would be active in January, this was before the obscene amount of injuries. All evidence supports that as well. We were involved with the Haaland transfer from an early stage, we've regularly been linked with Fernandes and the manager even went to scout him a few weeks a go. I think there was always a plan to make signings this month.
 

Bilbo

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Do people really think that managers will use press conferences as the platform to voice the changes they want at their club?
 

e.cantona

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Ole knew Rashford could aggravate his injury, I'm not sure why you keep defending him. This is why he said there was risk and that it backfired - according to his own words. He knew the consequences but "needed the win".

Well considering Pogba has barely played and it was clear that he took a knock against Rochdale - there is something wrong.

Maguire was doubtful recently after again being rushed in to play.
I'm not so much defending him, I don't know, maybe I am. More just pointing out the fact we don't have all the information to conclude he is responsible for Rashfords injury. Or Pogbas. Or rushing Maguire. Our two most expensive players and arguably our best player in Rashford.
 

BennyBlanco

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Hmm, I think this is something of a red herring.

I mean, if we take our first 11:

DDG has gotten worse. Shaw as bad as ever. AWB new, massive money, Maguire new, Massive money.

McTom young, always gonna improve year on year.
Fred, now settled, always a top player, now people see why Pep wanted him.
Pogba, worse or Andreas/Lingard worse or as shit as ever.

James new, "meh"
Rashford, definitely better, talented lad who I have always expected to improve year on year. Playing him left I give massive credit to management for.
Martial, better? nah, just that he's now playing every week, I don't see improvement per se.

The team as a whole... pretty shite.
Only way half these players are going to get better is to keep playing them, right now we have a foundation of a young team coming together with DDG, AWB, Maguire, Lindelof, Fred, Mctominay, Greenwood, Rashford, Williams etc.

Half the posters on here would have booted half that lot out, or have deemed them not good enough and wanted 10 new players in, it seems obvious we need to get in 3 more players this summer and 2-3 more the summer after and keep building upon what we have, its a 2-3 year project, majority of players besides Pogba (who will be gone this summer) are going in the right direction is my point.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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Well all being well we would already have Haaland and Fernandes in the squad training but it wasn’t to be with one and quite rightly giving the terms in the end and who we were dealing with, I believe we will still get Bruno in once Ed leaves it till the last minute and overpays for yet another player.
This is why I say the rebuild is not done well at all. People say we sold deadwood and thats good for a rebuild but we sold deadwood and we didn't get replacements. That's not how to carry out a rebuild.

Now you just said we went for Haaland and didn't get him so what? We're not going to sign a striker again? You're telling me Ole had his sight only on Haaland and after failing to get him we just give up on signing a striker? So if we don't get Bruno in 10 days do you think we would still sign a midfielder. The optimism that Ole has that we will sign our targets so we don't even look at alternatives shows how naive he is. This is how Leceister rinsed us and now Sporting wants to do the same for Bruno.
 

fergiesarmy1

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This is why I say the rebuild is not done well at all. People say we sold deadwood and thats good for a rebuild but we sold deadwood and we didn't get replacements. That's not how to carry out a rebuild.

Now you just said we went for Haaland and didn't get him so what? We're not going to sign a striker again? You're telling me Ole had his sight only on Haaland and after failing to get him we just give up on signing a striker? So if we don't get Bruno in 10 days do you think we would still sign a midfielder. The optimism that Ole has that we will sign our targets so we don't even look at alternatives shows how naive he is. This is how Leceister rinsed us and now Sporting wants to do the same for Bruno.
Well apparently we have a huge spreadsheet of targets now so can’t see what can possibly go wrong, again I blame the guys that actually negotiate the transfers not the manager if they can’t close a deal for one of the biggest clubs in the world (apparently).
 
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Well apparently we have a huge spreadsheet of targets now so can’t see what can possibly go wrong, again I blame the guys that actually negotiate the transfers not the manager if they can’t close a deal for one of the biggest clubs in the world (apparently).
You can’t blame Judge for Haaland saying he wants to join another club man :lol:
 

fergiesarmy1

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You can’t blame Judge for Haaland saying he wants to join another club man :lol:
I agreed with united pulling the plug on that one, still doesn’t make them competent when signing players as already proved with the likes of the Sanchez transfer and failing with many others no doubt.
 

Giggsyking

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Three times this season he rushed in players before they are ready to play and in two times in stupid competitions that has no effect on CL spot next year. He admitted playing Rashford despite the fact he had an injury and it was a risk ( in a fecking cup game). He rushed Pogba against fecking Roshdale and did the same with Maguire. How that is normal? This manager has a problem and is risking players all the time, it is a clear pattern in his stupid approach. I will not talk about his defensive ugly football, that is another issue. He is a yes man, whatever Ed say he bows and accept and he is gladly sitting there collecting millions being in a job he never dreamed of. He will be sacked sooner or later when all the lies of building the team disappear, unless he will continue hiding behind the "board did not back him" thing and the board has no problem with that the club is mediocre now just like the manager and some of our fans ambitions.
 

Giggsyking

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I'm not so much defending him, I don't know, maybe I am. More just pointing out the fact we don't have all the information to conclude he is responsible for Rashfords injury. Or Pogbas. Or rushing Maguire. Our two most expensive players and arguably our best player in Rashford.
He himself literally said we knew it was a risk and despite that played him in a fecking cup game. Bojan Djurdjic was fuming after the injury in the post game analysis yesterday saying why the feck was Rashford even on the bench against Wolves? he should have been home resting.
 

lex talionis

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I voted to keep Ole, but keep him only through the end of the season. It just isn't working for Ole as manager of United at this time. But in his defense he's hit a run of bad luck with Sanchez (so poor he had to be shipped out) and Pogba (injury and other issues) that were problems not of his making.

Despite the stick they get here, Maguire, Wan-Bissaka and James were good signings. James looks more like squad man material to me, Maguire has been consistently solid for us although not without deficiencies and AWB the same. The serious grand strategy mistake Ole made was believing that Lingard had something to offer and not going for an ACM during the summer transfer window. The entire football world except Ole saw JLingz's mask lifted in the second half of last season and we've had to do without an athletic proper 10 the entire season. Maybe Ole envisioned Pogba for that role but that too would have been a mistake.

We're better off in the long run without making another panic midseason sacking, for Poch or Allegri or whoever. Let's ride this out, poor results in the league lying in wait no doubt and get off to a fresh start with a new manager in the summer transfer window. I'm not sold on Poch as the answer but he might turn out to be the answer. I'd go with Allegri but he may be lured by Barcelona and no sane person could argue with him if he chooses Barcelona over Manchester United.

If management is committed to Ole it should pull the trigger and bring in Bruno now and if he's really all that (haven't seen him, not even on YouTube), Bellingham as well. We're insanely lacking in creativity and Bruno can help with that right now. There is only one goal in front of us this season and it's qualification for the CL. We have a shot in the league (Chelsea are there for the taking) but our better shot is through the EL trophy. We cannot get to the fourth place or lift the EL trophy without a proper 10. And now with Rashford gone for presumably the rest of the season and Pogba's status uncertain we need another player capable of scoring goals now, not next season.

All of this is to say that Ole is on the plank and he has a chance to deserve another season, but actions must be taken now to improve our position going into next season.
 

Foxbatt

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The problem is by end of the season we may not have a good manager available and also we may be out of the CL spot too.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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What's his philosophy? Coaches want to sign players that fit their philosophy but when you look at what Ole says about his own philosophy, his signings are questionable so far. He wants to play a highline but he signs a very slow center back to play alongside another slow center back, he wants fullback to attack but he signs a defensive one. The recruitment so far doesn't even make any sense when you try to fit them into the style of play Ole wants

Even with Mourinho you could see he preferred certain players with certain style of play like Matic, Perisic etc to fit his crap philosophy
 
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b82REZ

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Well, I saw Jose help himself along the road to being sacked
You made out it doesn't happen, when in reality it happens all the time. The example I gave was of a manager who went to the extreme with it, but nevertheless he used the media to push his agenda as many other have done and will continue to do.
 

Bilbo

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You made out it doesn't happen, when in reality it happens all the time. The example I gave was of a manager who went to the extreme with it, but nevertheless he used the media to push his agenda as many other have done and will continue to do.
The Jose situation you used is an excellent example of why managers should absolutely not push their own agenda on a public platform. Ole isn't stupid and everybody knows we need players and everybody knows that we are trying to get players.
 

DSG

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Ah yes, right, we are lesser United fans. Typical top red mentality right there.

You've already addressed some of the negatives, so I'm not going to bother.

Positives - Rashford has always been bordering on world class, but this will arguably be his best season, and you want to credit Ole for it, so go ahead.

The rest, I disagree - Martial has appeared to have settled under the 3rd manager. Fact is he hasn't improved nor deteriorated.

Signings - average to good. When Ole gets the sack, however, expect at least some of them to be new deadwood. Didn't adequately replace players he allowed to leave, but no, let's blame Ed for it.

Greenwood/Williams - youngsters are being unearthed by pretty much every manager since Fergie, despite their otherwise poor tenures. Whether they will make it here eventually remains to be seen.

Tables - sure, 5th sounds great until you look at the points. 34 from 22? Moyes was sacked for much less. Haven't faced a half-decent team in Europa, played one whole round of games in the FA cup which we struggled to win anyway, likely to get schooled by City in the league cup.

Basically, what he's done is a more or less the same shitty job every manager before him has, but has, and will continue to get a pass because he's a club legend. And no, his successor won't feel they have a much easier rebuild job on their hands, because that's a fecking lie.

What the Ole in group really has got going for them is blind faith that things will somehow fall in place when you give any manager time, even if they have not demonstrated progress by any objective measure, because he's not, nor will he ever, tick any of your rebuild process boxes other than loving the club when he does get the sack.
What
Ah yes, right, we are lesser United fans. Typical top red mentality right there.

You've already addressed some of the negatives, so I'm not going to bother.

Positives - Rashford has always been bordering on world class, but this will arguably be his best season, and you want to credit Ole for it, so go ahead.

The rest, I disagree - Martial has appeared to have settled under the 3rd manager. Fact is he hasn't improved nor deteriorated.

Signings - average to good. When Ole gets the sack, however, expect at least some of them to be new deadwood. Didn't adequately replace players he allowed to leave, but no, let's blame Ed for it.

Greenwood/Williams - youngsters are being unearthed by pretty much every manager since Fergie, despite their otherwise poor tenures. Whether they will make it here eventually remains to be seen.

Tables - sure, 5th sounds great until you look at the points. 34 from 22? Moyes was sacked for much less. Haven't faced a half-decent team in Europa, played one whole round of games in the FA cup which we struggled to win anyway, likely to get schooled by City in the league cup.

Basically, what he's done is a more or less the same shitty job every manager before him has, but has, and will continue to get a pass because he's a club legend. And no, his successor won't feel they have a much easier rebuild job on their hands, because that's a fecking lie.

What the Ole in group really has got going for them is blind faith that things will somehow fall in place when you give any manager time, even if they have not demonstrated progress by any objective measure, because he's not, nor will he ever, tick any of your rebuild process boxes other than loving the club when he does get the sack.

This is why it’s so hard to spend time on the Caf these days. Just constant moaning and negativity. Every single positive outcome in this season, you basically shat on. That’s not analysis, it’s pathetic self-loathing garbage.

Even the things that are objectively positive, you somehow found a way to minimize, while at the same time deflecting any shred of credit that Ole might deserve.

Look, I’m not convinced that Ole should stay. I would argue that with the injuries and absolute dire state the squad was in when he took over, he deserves more time. But that doesn’t mean he’s the answer. Furthermore, the worse the squad gets, the more difficult it will be to bring in a top manager with League titles and CL titles under his belt. In my opinion, he has improved the outlook of this squad, taken the hypercriticism of the media and fans like you, and continued to move forward. To me, when we play well, the style of football is better and more exciting than any of the post SAF managers. That means something. To me, at least.
 

bdspeedy

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I'm still not Ole out. What would be the point of that? Seems like our slow, agonizing slide has been going on since around the time Tevez left. It's obvious that he put some sort of curse on us.
 

hmchan

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You know full well what the implication was so stop with the woe is me everyone is picking on Solksjaer. By Ole's own admission he knew Rashford was carrying a knock and still put him on against Wolves, similarly to how he played Pogba too early. The manager can claim the lads wanted to play but it's his job to, you know, manage these lads and tell them no, due to concerns over fitness.

Surely even Solksjaer's staunchest defenders have to accept his complete mismanagement of the squad and the lack of rotation because of it
It's shocking to see someone still thinks Ole has nothing to do with the injuries. He tends to rush players back from injuries (not only Rashford, but also McTominay, Martial and Pogba) and some of them get injured again. His idea of keeping a small squad makes rotation impossible, just look at the gametime of Maguire and McTominay. The lack of depth in the squad also makes us more vulnerable when we have injury crisis. So Ole is not responsible?
 

tonnas

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The worse manager post Fergie continues to amaze us with stupid decisions that now have cost us Rashford for months. Bravo Ole!
 

hmchan

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You actually think this rebuild is being done properly. What makes you thinks so? Because we've cleared deadwood? Or are promoting academy products? Or are signing the right fit Instilling the United culture?

Tell me, does it make sense to clear deadwood without replacements, to promote players coming straight from the academy and start relying on them as first and second choice, to wait for the right fit with the right fit being only one target without any alternatives - we were rinsed by Leceister because of this, we haven't even attempted to sign a striker when we lost out on Haaland. As soon as we lost Haaland who was deemed as the right fit there was no more news of signing a striker.

Is this how a rebuild is done??? If you don't think Ole is at least half responsible for all this then I can tell you he has confirmed his naivety several times in press conferences
Everything just feels like the van Gaal's era for me. So-called clearing the deadwoods (some are actually good players with appropriate coaching) and thinning the squad depth. Claimed to promote youngsters but the successful ones came out of nowhere (van Gaal planned to play Wilson instead of Rashford; Williams wasn't taken to pre-season). Both tactically questionable to say the least. Only difference is Ole's better in buying players while van Gaal gave more chances to youngsters.
 

jem

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I'm still not Ole out. What would be the point of that? Seems like our slow, agonizing slide has been going on since around the time Tevez left. It's obvious that he put some sort of curse on us.
Bit weird given that we won two titles after he left.
 

Rhyme Animal

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Everything just feels like the van Gaal's era for me. So-called clearing the deadwoods (some are actually good players with appropriate coaching) and thinning the squad depth. Claimed to promote youngsters but the successful ones came out of nowhere (van Gaal planned to play Wilson instead of Rashford; Williams wasn't taken to pre-season). Both tactically questionable to say the least. Only difference is Ole's better in buying players while van Gaal gave more chances to youngsters.
LvG was also light years ahead of OGS tactically - he was too old and not hungry enough for the PL, he only really switched on for the big games.

In those big games though, the team was nearly always properly drilled, and would control and often beat Liverpool and City.

LvG could dominate possession and instill lovely little triangles (mainly down Utd's left), he just didn't have the edge anymore to finish it off, and he curtailed his own team with the dreaded 'my Captain shall always play' angle.

But he was far and above a better manager than OGS, albeit past his best.
 
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Paul_Scholes18

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LvG was also light years ahead of OGS tactically - he was too old and not hungry enough for the PL, he only really switched on for the big games.

In those big games though, the team was nearly always properly drilled, and would control and often beat Klopp and City.

LvG could dominate possession and instill lovely little triangles (mainly down Utd's left), he just didn't have the edge anymore to finish it off, and he curtailed his own team with the dreaded 'my Captain shall always play' angle.

But he was far and above a better manager than OGS, albeit past his best.
I don't agree with your view on LVG. He had a 4 game great spell, but the only reason we played with Fellaini and Herrera for those games was due to RVP and Di Maria got injured.
His 3-5-2 totally failed for most of the time and produced terrible football.
Apart from that it was crap the first season in all sorts of games with De Gea saving us in half of our wins.

That win against Klopp was pure fluke. They totally dominated us, but luck and De gea saved us. Then we scored a 1-0 winner from a corner. I guess having Fellaini around is a tactical masterclass.
Lost 3-0 against Spurs and Arsenal that season and got knocked out of CL in the group. Not really great in big games.
Rashford stepped up near the end against Arsenal and City so those wins was pretty good, but he didn't really predict Rashford would come and save him.

We have been better in big games this season to be honest. Although overall far from good enough.
 

Jostein Hjorteset

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The knee jerk reaction to sack Ole has several question marks. Is the next manager going to be backed or risk having his CV hampered? Is it reasonable to judge a manager after only one real transfer window? Is the next manager going to change philosophy/strategy and require a major rebuild of the whole team? Have we had a clearout of deadwood yet? How is the management (Woodward) going to shield themselves from critisism by a fast sack? Personally I think we are setting the next manager up to fail if sacking Ole after 1 year is what Woodward wants.
 

Denis79

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After reading all this about Rashfords injury I'm changing my vote to sack.
 

Tony247

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Playing rashford through injury was complete nonsense. Same with Pogba. Epitome of idiosyncrasy.
 

Axkiko

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The people thought about changing a manager again will have a change of our fortune need a serious look over last few years. It's never the biggest issue of our decline.
 

Axkiko

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It's shocking to see someone still thinks Ole has nothing to do with the injuries. He tends to rush players back from injuries (not only Rashford, but also McTominay, Martial and Pogba) and some of them get injured again. His idea of keeping a small squad makes rotation impossible, just look at the gametime of Maguire and McTominay. The lack of depth in the squad also makes us more vulnerable when we have injury crisis. So Ole is not responsible?
Because he has no other option to chooses other than them. It's not his fault when he wants to select his best players when our bench are full of useless players and youngsters.

Ole wanted a replacement of Lukaku. Ole wanted a attacking midfielder. Ole wanted a CM.

The board failed to sign the players and Ole promoted Greenwood and Williams to fill the boots. And you fans are blaming Ole instead of Woodward excuse me.
 

hmchan

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Because he has no other option to chooses other than them. It's not his fault when he wants to select his best players when our bench are full of useless players and youngsters.

Ole wanted a replacement of Lukaku. Ole wanted a attacking midfielder. Ole wanted a CM.

The board failed to sign the players and Ole promoted Greenwood and Williams to fill the boots. And you fans are blaming Ole instead of Woodward excuse me.
Come on, it's Ole's philosophy to promote youngsters. It's also his decision to let Lukaku, Alexis and Smalling go. Now you say the bench is full of useless players and youngsters?

Well, no one says the board is doing a good job, but Ole's naivety in letting players go before finding a replacement, and confidence in youngsters certainly doesn't help him.
 

Bobcat

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Ed didn't force Solksjaer to blow the budget on two defenders who were never going to take us the next level.

Ed is a clueless buffoon, but this trend of absolving blame on Solksjaer by blaming Woodward is daft. Solksjaer has repeatedly declared he was happy with the squad, if he had a budget he needed to prioritise and have a list of cheaper alternatives, not just go all in on choice number one. Solksjaer's transfers seem to be feast or famine. He's never going to get every player he wants and its naive for him to think every player in the world sees us a top club, because we aren't anymore.
Ok, but can you tell me what you think he should have (realistically) done?

Rojo, Jones and Baily could not be counted on. Rojo has done his ACL and is probably done at the top level, Jones is constantly injured and Baily is still recovering from surgery he had scheduled this fall, we knew he would be out for 3/4 of the season. We have had no RB for years

People bang on about him not replacing x,y and z player, but the problem is that these players bar Lukaku(which we got decent money for) and Herrera(which Ed fecked up) they had no resale value. We were in the delightful situation of having a squad of injury prone, overpaid deadwood. We could have done this over several years, like getting rid of 1-2 players each summer, keeping around the likes of Sanchez and Fellaini, or we could rip of the band aid quickly and painfully. Sure we have left ourselves thin, but it was either that or let this drag on for ages

Saying you are happy with the squad is just lip service to the media. Its either that or moan about your own players and after Jose i know i prefer the former. Now we could go out and buy 5-6 players for 15 million a piece as you suggested, but do you really think players in that price range will be serviceable for a club with top 4 ambitions?

Ed is a buffoon yes, but his buffonery goes back several years and the damage has been done incremental over the years and not this particular summer.

Deadwood gone: Fellaini, Darmian, Sanchez, Smalling, Valencia, Lukaku (not deadwood, but wanted to leave)
Deadwood that needs to go: Rojo, Jones, Shaw, Mata, Lindgard, Matic, Baily, Pereira

The worst part is that we the second highest wage bill in the league, just slightly less than City while having a squad of far, far worse quality. With declining revenue i think its very plausible that the owners have tightened the purse strings and demand we trim the squad and get the wages down before we go out shopping. Jose got 2nd in 17/18 yes, but it was clear by then that the gulf in class between us and City was just to big and when he then only got Fred the following summer he had a meltdown. Now Jose is partly responsible for the state of the squad, but he did have a point as the conditions he had to work under was impossible and there was no way we were going to go head to head with City without big investment

No one knew Pogba would be injured the entire season. Now Ole could have spent his budget on a CM and forward instead, but that would have left us very light in defense. Ideally we should have had a warchest of around 300 million to spend this summer, but instead we had to make do with 80 million(net). The reason for our troubles is not because Ole is some bootlicker, but because we have gone 6 years with terrible investment and transfer dealings and handed out golden contracts to frauds and deadwood because financial genius Ed thinks its wise to hand all the bargaining power to players by waiting forever with contract renewals. It has created a culture of greed among our players it seems, and we have the likes of Gomes who is pushing for higher pay, despite him just being a teenager and has frankly showed feck all on the pitch to warrant such demands. In fact, one should think he would be honored just to play for a big club, but apparently not

Honestly, i dont care whether Ole is manager or not. If he was sacked this summer i would not lose any sleep over it, but its clear as day this rebuild is an ongoing project and whoever sits in the chair next year is still going to have their hands full, especially if Ed and co still pull the strings
 

kouroux

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The people thought about changing a manager again will have a change of our fortune need a serious look over last few years. It's never the biggest issue of our decline.
Wanting Ole doesn't mean we only see him as the biggest problem. That's the most stupid way of looking at things. You could want Ole to be sacked as well as Woodward as well wanting to get rid of the Glazers, all at the same time.
 

midnightmare

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The way I see it, sacking Ole will only increase our payouts. We are run in a truly abysmal manner when it comes to transfers and recruitment and that won't change with the manager. By all accounts, Poch doesn't want a DoF (if we go by media reports) which means the structure won't change. Ole himself - lots to criticize (the set pieces at both ends, injury-management, in-game change of tactics...) but then you look at the squad and wonder how much more can be wrung out of it overall. We're atrociously thin on quality. I am sick of Ole's PCs - but have noticed that quite often after a loss / draw he says "we lacked the quality". What is that reflecting? He's not a Jose - so isn't saying "Pereira has wank decision-making" or "Jesse is a game trier, but on the ball, is about as useful as lipstick on a pig". I CBA finding clippings, but he's gone from talk about how we'd replace all outgoings (at a time we were on a great run) to talking about how he's happy with the squad (after we fell off the cliff). It's not results that changed his thinking. It's one or both of our financial constraints and the management above him.

This winter will tell us a lot. Either Ed goes out and signs 2-3 players that we clearly and desperately need to bridge the small gap to a faltering and fallible Chelsea - or we continue to dawdle along. Do the latter and I'd seriously start questioning whether we even have the money available. Ole and Ed continuously talk about having the "resources" - the lack of any actions to back this assertion up lead me to wonder whether perhaps "the lady doth protest too much".
 

dirkey

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Why do you even bother? Had it been Mourinho, LvG or Moyes taking the same risk with United's "crown jewel" and sending him in the physio's room for 3 months, there would have been an outrage of epic proportions. Do you remember what happened when Mourinho risked playing an injured Smalling at SB with the latter suffering a bigger injury? Some of the very same people who can see nothing wrong with rushing Marcus back into the side were screaming their lungs out about the evil manager who put his own interests above the team. Talking about double standards...

It's the same people who think that 9/23 wins in the league is acceptable because everybody else around us, except for the dippers and City, are performing badly too but 81 points was bad because City had managed to gain 98.

This was about certain fans, as for the decision itself to play Rashford, it was bad luck more than anything else. He had probably got a 50/50 from the medical staff (something like: he can play but he must avoid heavy contacts), we needed a goal, he probably asked Rashford if he was feeling OK, he got the nod and he brought him on. Shite happens just like it happened with Smalling at SB a few years back. The main problem, and what's hurting us now, was planning out the whole season with such a heavy reliance on Marcus, Tony and Paul to carry the team on their shoulders. We have been unlucky with injuries, true enough, but we made our bed too by chasing only specific targets (Longstaff/Rice) and by choosing to have only an academy graduate as back up upfront.
Proof of this please, out of interest. I've not said anything either way about Marcus, but I want to see proof of this claim.
 

Enigma_87

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27,647
Why do you even bother? Had it been Mourinho, LvG or Moyes taking the same risk with United's "crown jewel" and sending him in the physio's room for 3 months, there would have been an outrage of epic proportions. Do you remember what happened when Mourinho risked playing an injured Smalling at SB with the latter suffering a bigger injury? Some of the very same people who can see nothing wrong with rushing Marcus back into the side were screaming their lungs out about the evil manager who put his own interests above the team. Talking about double standards...

It's the same people who think that 9/23 wins in the league is acceptable because everybody else around us, except for the dippers and City, are performing badly too but 81 points was bad because City had managed to gain 98.

This was about certain fans, as for the decision itself to play Rashford, it was bad luck more than anything else. He had probably got a 50/50 from the medical staff (something like: he can play but he must avoid heavy contacts), we needed a goal, he probably asked Rashford if he was feeling OK, he got the nod and he brought him on. Shite happens just like it happened with Smalling at SB a few years back. The main problem, and what's hurting us now, was planning out the whole season with such a heavy reliance on Marcus, Tony and Paul to carry the team on their shoulders. We have been unlucky with injuries, true enough, but we made our bed too by chasing only specific targets (Longstaff/Rice) and by choosing to have only an academy graduate as back up upfront.
TBH I don't have problems with high expectations when we have a top manager in. The problem is having zero expectation under a rookie that uses United as his training ground.
 

Massive Spanner

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Ok, but can you tell me what you think he should have (realistically) done?

Rojo, Jones and Baily could not be counted on. Rojo has done his ACL and is probably done at the top level, Jones is constantly injured and Baily is still recovering from surgery he had scheduled this fall, we knew he would be out for 3/4 of the season. We have had no RB for years
How about keep Smalling who's pretty much as good as Maguire anyway?
 

b82REZ

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Ok, but can you tell me what you think he should have (realistically) done?

Rojo, Jones and Baily could not be counted on. Rojo has done his ACL and is probably done at the top level, Jones is constantly injured and Baily is still recovering from surgery he had scheduled this fall, we knew he would be out for 3/4 of the season. We have had no RB for years

People bang on about him not replacing x,y and z player, but the problem is that these players bar Lukaku(which we got decent money for) and Herrera(which Ed fecked up) they had no resale value. We were in the delightful situation of having a squad of injury prone, overpaid deadwood. We could have done this over several years, like getting rid of 1-2 players each summer, keeping around the likes of Sanchez and Fellaini, or we could rip of the band aid quickly and painfully. Sure we have left ourselves thin, but it was either that or let this drag on for ages

Saying you are happy with the squad is just lip service to the media. Its either that or moan about your own players and after Jose i know i prefer the former. Now we could go out and buy 5-6 players for 15 million a piece as you suggested, but do you really think players in that price range will be serviceable for a club with top 4 ambitions?

Ed is a buffoon yes, but his buffonery goes back several years and the damage has been done incremental over the years and not this particular summer.

Deadwood gone: Fellaini, Darmian, Sanchez, Smalling, Valencia, Lukaku (not deadwood, but wanted to leave)
Deadwood that needs to go: Rojo, Jones, Shaw, Mata, Lindgard, Matic, Baily, Pereira

The worst part is that we the second highest wage bill in the league, just slightly less than City while having a squad of far, far worse quality. With declining revenue i think its very plausible that the owners have tightened the purse strings and demand we trim the squad and get the wages down before we go out shopping. Jose got 2nd in 17/18 yes, but it was clear by then that the gulf in class between us and City was just to big and when he then only got Fred the following summer he had a meltdown. Now Jose is partly responsible for the state of the squad, but he did have a point as the conditions he had to work under was impossible and there was no way we were going to go head to head with City without big investment

No one knew Pogba would be injured the entire season. Now Ole could have spent his budget on a CM and forward instead, but that would have left us very light in defense. Ideally we should have had a warchest of around 300 million to spend this summer, but instead we had to make do with 80 million(net). The reason for our troubles is not because Ole is some bootlicker, but because we have gone 6 years with terrible investment and transfer dealings and handed out golden contracts to frauds and deadwood because financial genius Ed thinks its wise to hand all the bargaining power to players by waiting forever with contract renewals. It has created a culture of greed among our players it seems, and we have the likes of Gomes who is pushing for higher pay, despite him just being a teenager and has frankly showed feck all on the pitch to warrant such demands. In fact, one should think he would be honored just to play for a big club, but apparently not

Honestly, i dont care whether Ole is manager or not. If he was sacked this summer i would not lose any sleep over it, but its clear as day this rebuild is an ongoing project and whoever sits in the chair next year is still going to have their hands full, especially if Ed and co still pull the strings
Holy wall of text, Bobcat.

The most obvious decision, IMO, this summer was to keep Smalling. Defending ability wise Maguire and Smalling are at a similar ability. The ballplaying CBs the boss and fans want should have been the last thing we added to a functional team.

He shouldn't have extended the contracts of Lingard, Jones or Pereira, and if he didn't have a replacement lined up he shouldn't have marginalised Lukaku. I don't disagree with Mata being given a new deal as we do need some experienced heads and theoretically he covers for arguably our weakest position.
 

dirkey

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This is an interesting thread. I see most of the Ole outters claiming that the Ole-inners say Ole can do no wrong. I don't believe this is the case. I think the inners just see some forms of progress, they see some things he's doing well, some things he's not doing well. And I don't think I've seen anyone say (maybe one or two have, but I haven't noticed, 2 huge Ole threads is hard to read everything) that he's definitely the answer. Just, that he deserves more time.

Whereas, those who want him out? No credit for anything. They'll give excuses as to why improvements in certain players have nothing to do with him "Fred is new. Rashford is young and bound to improve, like McTominay" etc. Results are terrible. There's no style. He's tactically inept - which is hilarious given that he's constantly tweaking tactics and team against different opposition. "He can only play one way" - more bollox, just watch the first half against City. That wasn't counter attacking. They went out and absolutely nailed City. Should have been out of sight by half time. There are no signs of progress etc, etc.

I saw someone break down the games Ole has had into sections of 10 a few pages ago (or maybe in the other thread). I've done that too, but only with league games. At the end of the day, we're in every cup we took part in this year, so we've progressed well in those. Since he took over as full time manager, we've had 32 games. So, ignoring the last 2 games, as they're the start of the next group of 10, he's had, 11 points, 10 points and 18 points from the 3 sets of 10 games. Small sample size, yes, but shows signs of progress. Can he keep it going? Dunno, seems unlikely, with the injuries and small squad. And Europa league starting up again, but we'll see.

The squad - it's thin. I think between he and Woodward, he has messed up here. But I see the doubters saying he focuses on 1 target in a position at a time. Is that him, or is that Woodward? I remember Jose saying he'd always give his boss a list of 3 players at each position. Remember when we fixated on Perisic, and never got him? And never went after anyone else? Despite Jose saying he'd always give a list of 3 players at each position? Through 4 managers now, since Fergie, we've seen repeated failures in the transfer market. What's the common denominator? Woodward. So I'd lay most of the blame at him to be honest. Same mistakes keep being made. But still Ole is culpable here too. So, while he's gotten rid of a lot of deadwood, leaving us without a replacement for Lukaku was a mistake. Again though, we seemed to fixate on Dybala and not look at anyone else. Ole, or Woodward? Woodward's done this in the past remember.

Other than Lukaku, losing Herrera was probably our other big mistake. This was NOT Ole's fault: "Herrera had already made up his mind to move to PSG by the time United presented him with a contract offer in March following Ole Gunnar Solskjaer’s appointment as permanent manager.
“I don’t like looking at the past but there were differences regarding the project and my importance within it,” Herrera said. “I was very happy, I have a lot to thank the club for, the fans and also Solskjaer. “He did a lot for me to stay but things didn’t happen. They [United] arrived late [with the contract offer] and, by then, I’d already made the decision to play in Paris.”


So, once again, good job Ed.

Now, should we have signed a few more players? Probably. Definitely - but at the same time, it's not Championship Manager. It takes time. It takes multiple windows to replace so much dross. The previous managers have wasted so much money. Ole's signings so far look shrewd, but again, sample size is small, I'll reserve judgement. There's more needed. We're very bare in midfield, and losing our only creative spark in there for the entire season has been a massive issue. The games we mostly struggle with are the tight games, having Pogba in there, as much as I personally don't like him, and want him sold, would have made a difference to our total of points I think.

Tactically, I've seen enough to see that Ole does have a good tactical brain. I think he's currently hamstrung by the limitations of his players / squad. We massively frustrated Liverpool over the course of 2 fixtures, which no-one else has done. Still the only team to take points off them. Why were others not able to follow his blueprint after the game at OT? We had a great chance to nick a draw with them at Anfield the other day, without arguably our 3 best players. Admittedly they should have been out of sight by half time mind you!

Overall, do I think Ole is the man for the job, long term? I don't know. I have serious reservations. But I don't think he's done anything to merit being sacked as of yet. He's taking the long term approach to building a team. I know people love Football Manager, and bringing in 12 players in a summer which instantly becomes an incredible team, but real life isn't like that. Ole is a big United man, he'll have seen the mercenaries come in and bleed the club, and that will have hurt him - Di Maria, Sanchez etc. He wants to bring in people who get it - young players through the ranks who know what it means to play for United, and others of the right character. Whatever else about Maguire, James & WB, they seem to have the right character.

Give him another year at least, unless things become catastrophic and he seems to have lost the dressing room. It's going to be hard in the next while, especially with Rashford out, so we'll see what he can do.
 
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