I want Ole out and an impressive win doesn't change that, but if there's one thing he has going for him is that he seems to be able to make the players stick together when things get a bit tricky. This is a contrast to our previous managers post-Fergie bar maybe Van Gaal.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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By my reckoning in 2020 you have so far played 50, winning 31, drawing 9 and losing 10. That's a 62% win record across all competitions except friendlies.
I'd say that was a pretty impressive record for Ole, regardless of a thrashing against Spurs. He may not be the most experienced, but he's definitely doing something right and as an outsider looking in you have an impressive squad now with Cavani still to come. I don't see why you shouldn't be challenging on all fronts this season.
Sorry, OP in the wrong thread:-
Very impressed by Tuanzebe/AWB and Fred /McT, however the star was Ole
1. Setting up in a 3-5-2
2. Playing Telles
3. Benching Pogba and then bringing him on
4. Switching to 4-2-2-2 at the right time
There is NO EVIDENCE that Poch is better than Ole and that Ole is not a top-drawer manager. Managers at Utd have 4 main jobs (man-management, recruitment, improve young players and tactics) and Ole has shown he is great at all of them.
Very impressed by Tuanzebe/AWB and Fred /McT, however the star was Ole
1. Setting up in a 3-5-2
2. Playing Telles
3. Benching Pogba and then bringing him on
4. Switching to 4-2-2-2 at the right time
There is NO EVIDENCE that Poch is better than Ole and that Ole is not a top-drawer manager. Managers at Utd have 4 main jobs (man-management, recruitment, improve young players and tactics) and Ole has shown he is great at all of them.
I think we've lost seven games in 2020
Arsenal, Liverpool and Burnley in January
Then Chelsea (FA cup) and Sevilla at the end of last season
And now Palace & Spurs
edit: and City in the league cup, so eight
He really is. People act like he took a midtable team and turned them into league contenders, when in reality Spurs was sniffing around top 4 long before he was appointed and their rise also happens to coincide with us and Arsenal taking a swan dive after losing Fergie/Wenger
And not fecking Rodgers either. Unless you are 17 century nobility, commissioning a painting of yourself and hanging it in your house is totally unacceptable. Hes a bellend
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It also coincided with them stumbling upon a 30 a season striker.
In fairness Poch deserves some credit for bringing Harry through as well, but doubt they'd have been anywhere near as good without him.
It's almost funny. I started to look at the comments from the 10 or so people I put on ignore about a year ago - and the same 10 people are still the Worst. Not being able to see any positives - even after a win away to PSG.
you're probably right which makes for an even better record!
EDIT: checked again, you're not probably right, you're definitely right!
Must admit I’ve been Ole out for awhile but he got everything right yesterday.
he showed he can out tactic another manager, he dropped Pogba, gave Axel a start and switched things up when PSG scored.
Like rio said if Axel can do it he must start in our next game he deserves his chance for a run in the team.
he showed he can out tactic another manager, he dropped Pogba, gave Axel a start and switched things up when PSG scored.
Like rio said if Axel can do it he must start in our next game he deserves his chance for a run in the team.
You can put your house on it,
many of those in the 34.2% who want Ole sacked would not change their mind if the big man himself had a one to one with them and told them that Ole should not be sacked.
They would still believe they know better than SAF.
Thats how deluded some of them are.
Please note I said "many" not all.
There are still reasonable Ole outers, even though I cannot fathom their logic .....
many of those in the 34.2% who want Ole sacked would not change their mind if the big man himself had a one to one with them and told them that Ole should not be sacked.
They would still believe they know better than SAF.
Thats how deluded some of them are.
Please note I said "many" not all.
There are still reasonable Ole outers, even though I cannot fathom their logic .....
One of my arguments against Ole was how he sticks with one formation despite not having players for it. And when i was talking about his wrong lineups i got replies; "he doesn't have other options". My response was always that he can change tactic. In this game he used two new tactics and both worked brilliantly.
So i could do Sammsky now and write with huge bolded font; i told you that manager can change system. I told you. I told you.
So i could do Sammsky now and write with huge bolded font; i told you that manager can change system. I told you. I told you.
A win against Chelsea and suddenly everyone turns their heads again and thinks 'oh this Man Utd team is a serious threat'!
I get that some posters have gone a little overboard here, i dont agree with it, but its understandable considering the cesspit of negativity this forum was after Spurs. But maybe we can stop with the knee jerking and trying to oneup each other all the time?
Its exhausting and all sense of perspective and context gets lost when we are judging a bleeding manager on a game to game basis. Ole is not the second coming of christ, but hes clearly better than "that guy who relegated Cardiff"
Its exhausting and all sense of perspective and context gets lost when we are judging a bleeding manager on a game to game basis. Ole is not the second coming of christ, but hes clearly better than "that guy who relegated Cardiff"
How the hell can you say he hasnt show he cant build on results?
We crawled back over 10+ points in the league and went on a unbeaten run from january. We clearly improved on the season before by coming 3rd. Early early days into this season as well, and you've already wrote the team off it seems.
352 isn't new at all, he's used it in a number of matches. It's been hit and miss to be fair.One of my arguments against Ole was how he sticks with one formation despite not having players for it. And when i was talking about his wrong lineups i got replies; "he doesn't have other options". My response was always that he can change tactic. In this game he used two new tactics and both worked brilliantly.
So i could do Sammsky now and write with huge bolded font; i told you that manager can change system. I told you. I told you.
The second half formation was new but he couldn't have tried that before as he didn't have Pogba and Bruno while both Fred and McTominay were playing well. At the tail end of last season neither Fred nor McT looked anywhere near their best form when they came in.
I would temper the excitement somewhat. We played well and the tactics worked well but PSG were poor and their midfield had zero creativity. There will be tougher tests ahead.
I think it’s because he’s been on two ridiculously good runs and two ridiculously bad runs in his tenure so far.
On talksport they were on about whether this squad was better than the one that beat PSG to give Ole the job, most agreed it was, however they said the biggest issue is no one still knows which United team are going to turn up from game to game.
I think people know my opinion by now but I’ll give him his dues yesterday, spot on tactics and took advantage of a team that left themselves open at the back, but it would be silly for many people to change their opinion from game to game. I’d like to see a consistent run again where we were beating teams for fun, like back when he was caretaker. Most games we play feel incredibly hard fought and on a knife edge from the word go. Nobody has a divine right to turn up and just win, but you’ve got to have that aura about you if you’re going to win the league.
This is correct. Ole out doesn't mean I want Pochettino in.
Well it helps that both Solskjaer and Van Gaal didn't spend half of their media time deflecting criticism towards the players.
David 'Sir Alex would've struggled with this squad' Moyes
Jose 'My greatest achievement' Mourinho
Ole and Van Gaal have both been professional in their conduct surrounding the club (while managing us at least)
Top manager stuff. Going in to the game two centerbacks short. Brilliant man management and bold enough to start with star players on the bench.
PE teacher 2 - Tuchel 0
PE teacher 2 - Tuchel 0
The “Horny“ “Yesh we go for it” Van Gaal?
But you are right. They are both kind to their players. Mourinho I get, his arrogance. But Moyes’ downfall was so predictable that even he should have seen it coming.
It all seems to hang on 1 result with Ole from one week to the next. I suspect a lot of "fans" want us to lose to get rid of Ole-shocking, &, the same people wanted us to lose yesterday.
I will rate Ole's technical capability when he will show consistent flexibility depending on opposition, in game situation. Yesterday was a good win but that win preceded with equally poor team selection and bad results. Lets wait to see if he has changed.
Start of the last season was disastrous to say the least. Performance against Astana was rock bottom. Until Bruno arrived Ole was consistently playing Lingard, Perriera, James, Mata even though their combination wasn't providing result. This changed after Bruno. We needed win in every match so he started playing same 11 with 3 forwards. It was a gamble that relied on a disfunctional midfield compromised for strikers and motivated individuals to take us through and I can understand. When you are desparate and other teams are also desparate then sometimes such gambles can win you games.
This season there was no obvious reason to start with same 11. Playing 3 forwards in start of the season was a gamble carried forward hoping it will work again. That is not how a tactician works. How could he show disrespect to Son and Kane and set up such open game? Spurs with no end of season pressure on, and Ole set up a team with legs wide open.
Sorry for the rants. But the point is a tactician doesn't always rely on gambles and individual motivations. I reiterate that united has enough talented and versatile players in the squad. We can improve by adding couple of positions but even without we are still very good. Ole has to find the strength and balance within the squad. He will start consistently winning matches when he starts consistently setting up teams with proper balance without being nostalgic, individual favouritism. Unless he shows consistency he will remain in crosshair of his critics.
Start of the last season was disastrous to say the least. Performance against Astana was rock bottom. Until Bruno arrived Ole was consistently playing Lingard, Perriera, James, Mata even though their combination wasn't providing result. This changed after Bruno. We needed win in every match so he started playing same 11 with 3 forwards. It was a gamble that relied on a disfunctional midfield compromised for strikers and motivated individuals to take us through and I can understand. When you are desparate and other teams are also desparate then sometimes such gambles can win you games.
This season there was no obvious reason to start with same 11. Playing 3 forwards in start of the season was a gamble carried forward hoping it will work again. That is not how a tactician works. How could he show disrespect to Son and Kane and set up such open game? Spurs with no end of season pressure on, and Ole set up a team with legs wide open.
Sorry for the rants. But the point is a tactician doesn't always rely on gambles and individual motivations. I reiterate that united has enough talented and versatile players in the squad. We can improve by adding couple of positions but even without we are still very good. Ole has to find the strength and balance within the squad. He will start consistently winning matches when he starts consistently setting up teams with proper balance without being nostalgic, individual favouritism. Unless he shows consistency he will remain in crosshair of his critics.
Thought about this a lot last night. Hopefully this is a balanced opinion on Ole, feel free to agree, disagree.
Last night said a lot about Ole both as manager of people and also as a tactician. In the majority of big games I have no concerns with him or the coaching team. We always seem to be well drilled and create chances. Ok he is no Klopp spraying flemgh everywhere through his shiny white teeth, nor is he a Guardiola constantly waving his arms at the minutest mistake from the touchline. He has his own style and I am comfortable with that. What stood out last night was this was no defensive master class either. Containment football yes and that is the right thing to do against Neymar, Mbappe and Di Maria. Park the bus no. Go back when we won over in Paris last time round and if we all take our red tinted spec's off we can all say it was a great night but the finest of margins saw us through right at the last kick. Last night we controlled large parts of the game and created chances not only from counter attack but also from build up play. There was eleven battles on the pitch last night and for a man, utd dominated those battles. When you are seeing Mbappe being pushed to the wings and Neymar picking the ball up in his own half, that's not luck, that's good preparation and more importantly progress. If Martial had his shooting boots on the score could have been more.
Also worth noting that he puts players in because he trusts them. Take Axel last night. No doubt one of the biggest games of his career. The snipers are out, the vultures are circling, every week a new crisis at Utd. He steps in and plays like has been there for the last 60 games. Revisionists will tell you Jose used to do the same thing. Jose would throw players in to make a public statement to the board i.e. McTomminay and then he would throw other players under the bus. You don't need to be a life coach or leading business manager to understand that you get better performance and results when everyone is rowing the boat in the same direction. Would you prefer how Ole is managing Greenwood for his misdemeanours or the way Jose is trying to publicly provoke Delle Ali into a reaction and performance.
My criticism of Ole, and this is an area where he needs to improve is get better at managing the troughs. When we go through a bad patch it quite often is a BAD patch and it takes a two or three game bounce to get it back on course. You got stuffed under Fergie, you got a reaction usually next game. Same with all leading coaches. He needs to minimise the pick up time between losses and bad performances. That can only come from consistency of performance on the pitch.
Lets make no bones about it, Utd have a Lot of catching up to Liverpool and City. Whether Ole is the right man to do that, only the fullness of time will tell us but if he gets the bullet today tomorrow or in five years but I dare say the club purely from a footballing perspective will be in a much stronger position than when Jose, LVG, Moyes were shown the door. I am not going to get carried away with last nights result. Great team performance all things considered. Nor am I a too concerned about the spurs result in the bigger context of this season.
Last night said a lot about Ole both as manager of people and also as a tactician. In the majority of big games I have no concerns with him or the coaching team. We always seem to be well drilled and create chances. Ok he is no Klopp spraying flemgh everywhere through his shiny white teeth, nor is he a Guardiola constantly waving his arms at the minutest mistake from the touchline. He has his own style and I am comfortable with that. What stood out last night was this was no defensive master class either. Containment football yes and that is the right thing to do against Neymar, Mbappe and Di Maria. Park the bus no. Go back when we won over in Paris last time round and if we all take our red tinted spec's off we can all say it was a great night but the finest of margins saw us through right at the last kick. Last night we controlled large parts of the game and created chances not only from counter attack but also from build up play. There was eleven battles on the pitch last night and for a man, utd dominated those battles. When you are seeing Mbappe being pushed to the wings and Neymar picking the ball up in his own half, that's not luck, that's good preparation and more importantly progress. If Martial had his shooting boots on the score could have been more.
Also worth noting that he puts players in because he trusts them. Take Axel last night. No doubt one of the biggest games of his career. The snipers are out, the vultures are circling, every week a new crisis at Utd. He steps in and plays like has been there for the last 60 games. Revisionists will tell you Jose used to do the same thing. Jose would throw players in to make a public statement to the board i.e. McTomminay and then he would throw other players under the bus. You don't need to be a life coach or leading business manager to understand that you get better performance and results when everyone is rowing the boat in the same direction. Would you prefer how Ole is managing Greenwood for his misdemeanours or the way Jose is trying to publicly provoke Delle Ali into a reaction and performance.
My criticism of Ole, and this is an area where he needs to improve is get better at managing the troughs. When we go through a bad patch it quite often is a BAD patch and it takes a two or three game bounce to get it back on course. You got stuffed under Fergie, you got a reaction usually next game. Same with all leading coaches. He needs to minimise the pick up time between losses and bad performances. That can only come from consistency of performance on the pitch.
Lets make no bones about it, Utd have a Lot of catching up to Liverpool and City. Whether Ole is the right man to do that, only the fullness of time will tell us but if he gets the bullet today tomorrow or in five years but I dare say the club purely from a footballing perspective will be in a much stronger position than when Jose, LVG, Moyes were shown the door. I am not going to get carried away with last nights result. Great team performance all things considered. Nor am I a too concerned about the spurs result in the bigger context of this season.
I hope he doesn't take us back to 4231 with Pogba, Matic.
Great win yesterday
Great win yesterday
My own opinion on Ole is he is doing a good job under the circumstances of what's above him .
It's never as bad as some people try to make it out but then it's probably not as good as others tell us . Last night was a brilliant performance and win but if Chelsea beat us at the weekend then it's half to Ole out again .
The coming month will tell alot with Oles future I feel
It's never as bad as some people try to make it out but then it's probably not as good as others tell us . Last night was a brilliant performance and win but if Chelsea beat us at the weekend then it's half to Ole out again .
The coming month will tell alot with Oles future I feel
Very good balanced post . My one big problem with Ole is his in game management. I feel he takes to long to make subs and change tactically during a game .
We seem to start a game with a plan and if it goes tits up then we get thumped because we don't change the system or players quickly enough
Good post. Love to read considered and thought out stuff like this.
As you say, I hope that people don't look at last nights match and simply think 'they had an off day' 'players out' etc etc. That would be unfair. As you point out when players like Neymar are dropping back to the halfway line to get the ball its because his movement and preferences have been studied and planned for. Same applies to all of their front three. We mostly kept them at arms length and we looked dangerous throughout. Last time we won in Paris he had far less tools at his disposal, but even the most biased red would admit that a lot of good fortune went our way. Not the case last didn't. We were worthy winners
In his first full season he has took us to third and 3 semi finals and he hasnt even finished building his squad. It took Kloop 4 seasons. Ole has shown time and time again he can compete tactically in the big games against the best. He is the only man for the job.
It depends on the impact Cavani will have. But there will be less pressure from benching Martial than Pogba or Maguire.
Would be premature and a long way to go but I’m delighted at the idea of beating the English media official romance, Lampard. So that’s important. Perception matters.
Cavani didn't join us to sit on the bench.
A win against Chelsea would be brilliant.
Niether did Van De Beek
That's all absolutely fair.
My own view of him, is that he's not perfect but he's a very long way away from being the biggest issue at the club. With where the club was when he arrived and the sterling efforts he and his staff have put in to this team and this set of players, I think it's only right that we see where we end up with him.
I still maintain that he needed proper backing this summer in the positions that were of critical importance, but as he did last summer (where IMO we had an even worse window) Ole has and will make do with what he's got to the best of his ability. My targets for him have been revised, in light of that poor summer window also. Whereas before I wanted us to get closer to City and Liverpool, I would now be ok with us showing improvement but not to the extent that I had initially hoped for. 3rd/4th and being 15 or so points behind them would be fine by me.
I know. We whall see what will happen. But as i said; when we played for months like shit in 4231 formation with Lingard out of form on no10, Pereira on rw etc...people excused Ole with "he doesn't have better option for that position". My point always about any manager is that it is not excuse and that his job is to use the best what he has.
If we played in 4231 yesterday with lets say Ighalo on no9 and James on rw and lost, people would blame Ed because he didn't bought Sancho and Kane.
Formation rotation was something which delighted me yesterday. Because that manager must do
Agreed utilise what you have. He doesn’t do it enough and was a smart decision to use Telles that way. If it was planned to buy him with that in mind. Credit to him. If it wasn’t.. maybe he should take it onboard.
Come on. I agree in general but there's no need to just make stuff up. As if Ighalo had a hope of playing the CL against PSG and anyone would have blamed Woodward if Ole picked him over Rashford/Martial.
Maybe 4231 wasn't the best way to go but the manager seems to prefer it. I'm not sure Lingard/Pereira were going to give us much more than they gave us regardless of the formation and unfortunately we were reliant on them for large parts of last season.
We have improved the squad and it allows greater tactical flexibility which is great. Long may it continue.
There is certainly a vocal minority that would do anything to absolve blame on Ole. They absolutely would have blamed Woodward if that hypothetical situation had occurred.
It was very encouraging to see how Ole set us up and him finally influencing a game in progress with his substitutions. This time last year I don't think he would have experimented like he did last night and it was refreshing to see.
Tottenham with Harry - 1.9 goals per game. Tottenham without Harry - 1.2 goals per game.
He made Poch's entire career. He is so far and beyond Tottenhams most important player they are a mid-table team without him. prior to 2019. In Tottenham, Harry Kane is the closest thing they have to God.
To me, it's just more strawman talk and it doesn't add anything to the discussion. There's enough actual nonsense around the place to complain about with delving into fantasies in my view.
But yes, I agree it is encouraging.
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