Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?

  • Sack Ole & appoint new coach ASAP

  • Keep Ole & back him to finish rebuild


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Forevergiggs1

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I cant and won't try to shoot down anybody that says they have some doubts about Ole. After all, he has yet to win a trophy here and we havent yet found that consistency. To have doubts is completely understandable.

What I dont agree with is that he should have had all of this necessarily figured out after two years. IMO that would be underestimating the size of the task that he has taken on.

For me he has already answered a lot of questions. He has spent well for the most part. He has held his own, and then some, against the elite coaches he's faced. He has a squad of players who look like they are willing to fight for him (most of them anyway). He's been a dignified manager. He doesnt make it about him like many of them do - its clear that he bleeds United and will do anything for this club. That might not mean much for some but it means something to me.

What he now needs to do is to find a way to get consistency out of this team. If he does that then he could end up lasting a decade here, and we will be successful.
I don't think I'm being overly critical in saying Ole should have most of the kinks worked out in the time frame. 2 years is still a long time in football especially at a massive club like United. I do agree it's a monumental task though and it is a process but for me that process is behind schedule.

For me one of the most important factors a manager has to instill in his players is a winning mentality. I'm not talking about winning games as such but that every player before he goes out on the pitch will be willing to run through brick walls for him. Pep and Klopp even though it took them a while to win anything had this hardwired into their players at a very early stage and it was clearly evident. With Ole we only have to go back a few weeks to see we're still struggling with this concept after 2 years.

On the playing side there's still big, big improvements needed. Ole is quite stubborn as a manager and while some will think it's a good trait to have in this case I don't agree. Continually playing out from the back has me baffled because we don't have the players for it and every game we're pressed in we get ourselves in trouble. It's taken Ole a year to finally catch on that Pogba should never be part of a double pivot and in saying that it wouldn't surprise me if he ends up back there a lot more games this season. I don't know what's going on in training so I won't be too crticial of Ole but for me VDB should be getting more game time.

Another big factor that definitely should of been sorted in 2 years is our passage of play. We still can't connect properly between the midfield and attacking positions and I don't know why it's not a worry for people who think Ole is the man to take us forward especially after spending more than 300m in 3 windows and even though I'm not in full agreement with it having 3 of the most talented forwards of almost any club.

Ole is not the disaster many think he is but he's far from a top echelon manager which a club like ours needs. I don't care if he bleeds red, green, blue or orange if he makes us a success. Maybe if we give Ole another 300m he could consolidate us in the top 4 because I haven't seen enough evidence from him that he's the one to win us titles.
 

rotherham_red

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I don't think I'm being overly critical in saying Ole should have most of the kinks worked out in the time frame. 2 years is still a long time in football especially at a massive club like United. I do agree it's a monumental task though and it is a process but for me that process is behind schedule.

For me one of the most important factors a manager has to instill in his players is a winning mentality. I'm not talking about winning games as such but that every player before he goes out on the pitch will be willing to run through brick walls for him. Pep and Klopp even though it took them a while to win anything had this hardwired into their players at a very early stage and it was clearly evident. With Ole we only have to go back a few weeks to see we're still struggling with this concept after 2 years.

On the playing side there's still big, big improvements needed. Ole is quite stubborn as a manager and while some will think it's a good trait to have in this case I don't agree. Continually playing out from the back has me baffled because we don't have the players for it and every game we're pressed in we get ourselves in trouble. It's taken Ole a year to finally catch on that Pogba should never be part of a double pivot and in saying that it wouldn't surprise me if he ends up back there a lot more games this season. I don't know what's going on in training so I won't be too crticial of Ole but for me VDB should be getting more game time.

Another big factor that definitely should of been sorted in 2 years is our passage of play. We still can't connect properly between the midfield and attacking positions and I don't know why it's not a worry for people who think Ole is the man to take us forward especially after spending more than 300m in 3 windows and even though I'm not in full agreement with it having 3 of the most talented forwards of almost any club.

Ole is not the disaster many think he is but he's far from a top echelon manager which a club like ours needs. I don't care if he bleeds red, green, blue or orange if he makes us a success. Maybe if we give Ole another 300m he could consolidate us in the top 4 because I haven't seen enough evidence from him that he's the one to win us titles.
I disagree that he's behind schedule. If you look at Carlo Ancelotti at Everton and Marco Silva before him, you'll see how long it took Everton to start seeing the benefits of their transition - the best part of two full seasons and multiple players who have been brought in. If you actually look at Ole and what he's done with a squad that at the outset had so many holes within it, he's essentially condensed two seasons worth of transition into one. So if anything, he was ahead of schedule.

Ole has almost totally rebuilt his squad with little by way of purchases and the summer transfer window just gone has at best kept him stationary while those around him have improved their first XI and squad. In order to really progress, we needed a good summer transfer window to really kick on as third place was about as good as we were going to get with this team. That didn't happen, so I'd cut him some slack if we get top 4 more comfortably this season. If, however, we are still this inconsistent by Christmas this year, then a discussion should be had about his suitability as despite the squad's inadequacies, these are almost all his players who he has worked with for the best part of two years.

Here's hoping we get that consistency though, because if there is one manager who deserves to actually get proper backing it's him. Bring him Sancho, Grealish, Upamecano and a proper DM, and let's see where he gets us in the table and title race.
 

Shark

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Consistency in our approach to every game. I dont mean tactically, I mean mentally. We are on the cusp of being a really good team, but we are still in that 'which United will turn up today' phase.

As far as top 4 is concerned, it is always going to be a scrap. You might as well get comfortable with that now. Its going to be tough for any team to put the necessary winning run together that would be required in order to pull clear of the pack, so its highly likely it goes down to the last couple of weeks of the season.

It wont necessarily mean that we haven't progressed. Or it might do. Let's wait and see and enjoy the ride.
We haven't won any of our home games this season. Two of which we failed to score a single goal. If we're on the cusp of being a really great team under Ole I'd be truly baffled.
 

Foxbatt

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I disagree that he's behind schedule. If you look at Carlo Ancelotti at Everton and Marco Silva before him, you'll see how long it took Everton to start seeing the benefits of their transition - the best part of two full seasons and multiple players who have been brought in. If you actually look at Ole and what he's done with a squad that at the outset had so many holes within it, he's essentially condensed two seasons worth of transition into one. So if anything, he was ahead of schedule.

Ole has almost totally rebuilt his squad with little by way of purchases and the summer transfer window just gone has at best kept him stationary while those around him have improved their first XI and squad. In order to really progress, we needed a good summer transfer window to really kick on as third place was about as good as we were going to get with this team. That didn't happen, so I'd cut him some slack if we get top 4 more comfortably this season. If, however, we are still this inconsistent by Christmas this year, then a discussion should be had about his suitability as despite the squad's inadequacies, these are almost all his players who he has worked with for the best part of two years.

Here's hoping we get that consistency though, because if there is one manager who deserves to actually get proper backing it's him. Bring him Sancho, Grealish, Upamecano and a proper DM, and let's see where he gets us in the table and title race. Lets add Ronaldo and Messi too.
 

Cloud7

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I cant and won't try to shoot down anybody that says they have some doubts about Ole. After all, he has yet to win a trophy here and we havent yet found that consistency. To have doubts is completely understandable.

What I dont agree with is that he should have had all of this necessarily figured out after two years. IMO that would be underestimating the size of the task that he has taken on.

For me he has already answered a lot of questions. He has spent well for the most part. He has held his own, and then some, against the elite coaches he's faced. He has a squad of players who look like they are willing to fight for him (most of them anyway). He's been a dignified manager. He doesnt make it about him like many of them do - its clear that he bleeds United and will do anything for this club. That might not mean much for some but it means something to me.

What he now needs to do is to find a way to get consistency out of this team. If he does that then he could end up lasting a decade here, and we will be successful.
Which other big club in world football thinks that a manager should still be figuring things out after two years?
 

Cloud7

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Here's hoping we get that consistency though, because if there is one manager who deserves to actually get proper backing it's him. Bring him Sancho, Grealish, Upamecano and a proper DM, and let's see where he gets us in the table and title race.
So get him the best team in the league on paper and then see where he gets us?
 

Shark

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We beat Leipzig 5-0 at home tbf.
In the league. 1-3 to Palace, 1-6 to Spurs, 0-0 vs Chelsea, 0-1 vs an Arsenal side that just got spanked by Villa. Thinking we're on the cusp of becoming a great side is surely delusional. Would anybody even be surprised if we lost to West Brom at home :lol:
 

cyberman

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In the league. 1-3 to Palace, 1-6 to Spurs, 0-0 vs Chelsea, 0-1 vs an Arsenal side that just got spanked by Villa. Thinking we're on the cusp of becoming a great side is surely delusional. Would anybody even be surprised if we lost to West Brom at home :lol:
Arsenal side that has a few recent wins v City and Liverpool as well?
 

rotherham_red

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So get him the best team in the league on paper and then see where he gets us?
If it worked for Zidane and Flick, why not Ole? Especially when you consider how Ole has done in the big games in his tenure thus far, is it really such a leap to say? If it doesn't work out then fine, chalk it down to experience and move on but like Jose and LvG received that backing to build the squad in his image, so too should Ole. And as far as I'm concerned, that hasn't happened.

This team with Ole has progressed a heck of a lot and for the first time there is a coherence to the building of the squad that hasn't been there in years. Let's see where we are at the end of the process, and if by the end of this season we're out of the top 4, he'll be let go, or if by the end of next season there isn't any further progress beyond the current level of a top 4 dog fight, then again, he should be let go but outside of that I'm more than okay with seeing where we end up with him.

It's almost like you have forgotten how far we had fallen under Jose, or how mind numbingly boring we were under LvG. Neither has been the case with Ole, and both of those guys had a much stronger squad than Ole in the first place.
 

rotherham_red

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In the league. 1-3 to Palace, 1-6 to Spurs, 0-0 vs Chelsea, 0-1 vs an Arsenal side that just got spanked by Villa. Thinking we're on the cusp of becoming a great side is surely delusional. Would anybody even be surprised if we lost to West Brom at home :lol:
But you didn't specify the league, did you? It's still not good enough, and badly needs to be improved, but we did have our strongest performance of the season thus far at home. Here's hoping it does improve.
 

RedSky

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In the league. 1-3 to Palace, 1-6 to Spurs, 0-0 vs Chelsea, 0-1 vs an Arsenal side that just got spanked by Villa. Thinking we're on the cusp of becoming a great side is surely delusional. Would anybody even be surprised if we lost to West Brom at home :lol:
This is the frustrating thing. In 2020 we've played 12 away games in the league and our win rate is 66.7%, the next highest is Southampton on 53.8%, followed by Liverpool and City on 50%. Our lost % is also the best in the league only losing 16.7% of those 12 games. Our away form is excellent. Title winning form in fact.

Our home form however, well that's not great. We've played 13 games and our win percentage is 38.5%, to put this into perspective... West Ham, Sheffield United, Leicester, Wolves, Tottenham, Southampton, Arsenal, Chelsea, City and Liverpool all have higher win percents. Liverpool for example has played 13 games and won 12.
 

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This is the frustrating thing. In 2020 we've played 12 away games in the league and our win rate is 66.7%, the next highest is Southampton on 53.8%, followed by Liverpool and City on 50%. Our lost % is also the best in the league only losing 16.7% of those 12 games. Our away form is excellent. Title winning form in fact.

Our home form however, well that's not great. We've played 13 games and our win percentage is 38.5%, to put this into perspective... West Ham, Sheffield United, Leicester, Wolves, Tottenham, Southampton, Arsenal, Chelsea, City and Liverpool all have higher win percents. Liverpool for example has played 13 games and won 12.
It must have something to do with home teams having to go at us and Ole having is set up as mainly a counter attacking team. Whenever we've actually had to set the tone and dictate play at home we've looked totally clueless.
 

RedSky

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It must have something to do with home teams having to go at us and Ole having is set up as mainly a counter attacking team. Whenever we've actually had to set the tone and dictate play at home we've looked totally clueless.
Yet if you look at Oles record overall, the difference between Away and Home isn't all that different. It just seems like we're in a slump of form, our last home win in the league was that 5:2 win against Bournemouth which was 7 league home games ago. In those 7 games we've lost 3, in the previous 28 home games we lost 4.

It seems like the coaching staff wanted to improve our away form which was diabolical for a very long time and by fixing that, they've turned our home form around from being very good to utterly terrible. I can't stress how bad our away form was. We had a 19 game run where we only won 4 games.
 

Cloud7

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If it worked for Zidane and Flick, why not Ole? Especially when you consider how Ole has done in the big games in his tenure thus far, is it really such a leap to say? If it doesn't work out then fine, chalk it down to experience and move on but like Jose and LvG received that backing to build the squad in his image, so too should Ole. And as far as I'm concerned, that hasn't happened.

This team with Ole has progressed a heck of a lot and for the first time there is a coherence to the building of the squad that hasn't been there in years. Let's see where we are at the end of the process, and if by the end of this season we're out of the top 4, he'll be let go, or if by the end of next season there isn't any further progress beyond the current level of a top 4 dog fight, then again, he should be let go but outside of that I'm more than okay with seeing where we end up with him.

It's almost like you have forgotten how far we had fallen under Jose, or how mind numbingly boring we were under LvG. Neither has been the case with Ole, and both of those guys had a much stronger squad than Ole in the first place.
Ole has a stronger squad than Vangle or Jose ever had.

I just can’t follow this line of thinking that we need to have a manager with the best team in the league before they can be assessed and deemed to be performing at par/underperforming.

At worst we have the third best squad in the league. A scrap for top 4 isn’t an acceptable return for that in my opinion. I’m not saying I expect Ole to overtake Klopp or Pep, as he’s not a good enough manager to accomplish that without having a team that’s better than theirs, but last season we finished 33 points behind the league leaders and 16 points behind the second place team. Added to that I haven’t seen anything in the way of improvement this season to suggest that it’s going to be any different. The same inconsistency that was there before is there now.

I suppose we simply differ in what we assess the current direction to be. Ultimately for me, I just don’t see it and think that under Ole, for the most part, we’re just going in circles. I would love to be proven wrong by him though.

Edit: Also just to counter your point about Flick/Zidane, they both did well with the squads that were already in place when they took over. Yes, the squads there were better than our own, but I was always led to believe by this forum that a manager can’t be judged until they sign a whole new team for themselves, and it isn’t possible to judge them on how they do with the players already at the club. In fact there were players like Muller who were underperforming under Kovac, and were considered finished, that all of a sudden look like world beaters again under Flick.
 
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Paul_Scholes18

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It must have something to do with home teams having to go at us and Ole having is set up as mainly a counter attacking team. Whenever we've actually had to set the tone and dictate play at home we've looked totally clueless.
sounds stupid if that is the case. Why do other teams not set up at home to contain us?
Or why do we only counter attack well away from home?
Without fans manager should logically not care about home or away anyway.
Pleasing home fans do not matter without them.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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Yet if you look at Oles record overall, the difference between Away and Home isn't all that different. It just seems like we're in a slump of form, our last home win in the league was that 5:2 win against Bournemouth which was 7 league home games ago. In those 7 games we've lost 3, in the previous 28 home games we lost 4.

It seems like the coaching staff wanted to improve our away form which was diabolical for a very long time and by fixing that, they've turned our home form around from being very good to utterly terrible. I can't stress how bad our away form was. We had a 19 game run where we only won 4 games.
Well is the poor home form without the fans only? If so then that might be the factor though that we miss our fans.
This season we have had harder games at home though.

So I do think it is probably just fixture based. Our last really easy home game we won 5-2 vs Bournemouth last year. Hopefully West Brom will be the same.
 

Shark

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Well is the poor home form without the fans only? If so then that might be the factor though that we miss our fans.
This season we have had harder games at home though.

So I do think it is probably just fixture based. Our last really easy home game we won 5-2 vs Bournemouth last year. Hopefully West Brom will be the same.
Palace and Arsenal should be at least totally winnable or at least drawable though. It's just so incredibly bad that we couldn't even muster a draw against either of them. Losing at home the way we have is just downright not good enough on any level, Old Trafford is being dragged through the mud :(
 

Paul_Scholes18

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Palace and Arsenal should be at least totally winnable or at least drawable though. It's just so incredibly bad that we couldn't even muster a draw against either of them. Losing at home the way we have is just downright not good enough on any level.
I know it is bad, but Palace is a strong counter attacking side who we often struggle against. Arsenal game should probably have been a draw though, but we gave away a stupid pen.
Even with fans we failed in those games last season.
 

brzez

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We got the third best squad in the league eh. Few years ago they were all shit, right? Hm, I really do wonder who made the squad get so much respect and admiration.

btw I really do think you guys need to understand that we were outworked against CP and had that penalty against us (which they changed the rules for after). Against Spurs we fell apart after the red card. Against Chelsea and Arsenal there are no excuses.
 

RedSky

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Well is the poor home form without the fans only? If so then that might be the factor though that we miss our fans.
This season we have had harder games at home though.

So I do think it is probably just fixture based. Our last really easy home game we won 5-2 vs Bournemouth last year. Hopefully West Brom will be the same.
We won 2 of our 8 home games post lockdown. That could be a possible explanation, seems an odd coincidence that our home form dipped and our away form turned amazing at almost the exact same time though. It's pretty baffling and while the fixture list has been a little tricky, a lot of those fixtures we did win before with Ole at the helm. Beat Chelsea 4-0, beat Southampton 3-2, beat West Ham 2-1, beat Tottenham 2-1. Tough fixtures, but we should have done better than we have.

2 wins in 8 is pretty unforgivable. But that away form is superb, if we could make ourselves better at home we'd be a real threat this season.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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We won 2 of our 8 home games post lockdown. That could be a possible explanation, seems an odd coincidence that our home form dipped and our away form turned amazing at almost the exact same time though. It's pretty baffling and while the fixture list has been a little tricky, a lot of those fixtures we did win before with Ole at the helm. Beat Chelsea 4-0, beat Southampton 3-2, beat West Ham 2-1, beat Tottenham 2-1. Tough fixtures, but we should have done better than we have.

2 wins in 8 is pretty unforgivable. But that away form is superb, if we could make ourselves better at home we'd be a real threat this season.
That Southampton game really frustrated me. Conceding so bloody late. We got top 4 anyway though.
I think this season we have been poor both home and away though. We got lucky vs Brighton and I don't think we played amazing vs Newcastle.

Everton and PSG was our good away performances. Leipzig a good home performance. I guess we did alright in the league cup too.
 

TheDoc

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This is silly. So many people are talking as if we're in a crisis, but as of now this is a perceived crisis not a real one. We're just eight rounds in folks, and we've only played seven of those with a spare match against Burnley. Win that one and we're five points behind Leicester at the top. And Leicester and Liverpool also found their form quite recently, after they too had a very shaky opening to this season, plus City and Chelsea haven't really been brilliant either and Arsenal they're still looking lost. Tottenham has delivered as you'd expect, but they're high on the table due to others falling short more so than their own brilliance. They will probably be consistent though, from what I've seen.

We're not the only ones who've made a mess of our warm-up and it's simply too early to conclude we're in trouble. So far we've only had a couple of troubling results and we're doing well in Champions League too. Even the shortest of streaks, and we've had some pretty big ones since Ole emerged, could place us at the top and we've also proven several times over this season that we are capable of beating just about anyone when playing to our full potential, and at least be on equal terms even on a mediocre day, so... Yeah.

This season isn't exactly over yet, in fact there are thirty more rounds to go (31 for us) so some might argue it's a bit premature all this, borderline hysterical even. Wait and see where we are come January, and then again, if we're still in contention, where we're at once the season finishes. The only reason to jump the gun and call for anyone's head this instant, based on how early it is and what we've seen so far both from us and our rivals, is if you're scared we'll turn this inconsistency into a good run. If you're actually fearful we'll end up being successful, if you simply don't want Ole to prove himself (most likely) because you have other favorites for the job.

And to me, from a supporter's perspective, that makes no sense whatsoever, undermining what we have because you yearn for something else.

I get it, Pochettino is a charming, cute little fellow and foxy like the foxiest of foxes, the hens complimenting him even as he shreds them to bits I bet. I understand how eager some of you are to see him here at our club, but come on seriously, get over it. The simple truth is, he's not our manager Ole is, and until there's a real reason not to, until there's an actual crisis and changing coaches is the best way to deal with it (because not all crisis are down down to management sometimes you just need to buy a Bruno, a Ronaldo or a Cantona and everything gets fixed), we should support our manager and we should support our players and we should support our club. Shower them in love, make them feel appreciated and wish for them the very best hoping this will spur them on.

If I could suffer that during Mourinho, despite the fact that I loathe him (as a manager that is as a pundit and a person he's quite funny and insightful) and also felt Van Gaal deserved another season, you guys can sure as fickleberries endure it now.
 

Greck

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The consistency thing isn't right. Technically any team that doesn't win all their games can say inconsistency. Fulham can look at how they won their last 3 games last season and say "well if we were more "consistent" we would have never got relegated" to avoid the reality that they collectively weren't good enough.

We are simply what we are. The performances against the weaker sides have formed a large enough sample size to be considered a trend. They aren't some anomalous instance of inconsistency. It's not like Ole can't even finish top 4 this season, it's just that he's 10 years into his managerial career and the ceiling on his managerial talent is still so low. He has days where he doesn't know what sub to make or when to make it, he has oversights in the most basic tactical organisations like that comical corner where no one stayed back and he continues to look uninspired against deep sitting teams. We have even started desperately pumping balls into the box on those days

If he was going to become Fergie or Klopp he would have had much more figured out by this point in his career. This is no different from realising a youth product will never be good enough for the first team. There's no blasphemy in saying he isn't great or a United manager
 
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TheDoc

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The consistency thing isn't right. Technically any team that doesn't win all their games can say inconsistency. Fulham can look at how they won their last 3 games last season and say "well if we were more "consistent" we would have never got relegated" to avoid the reality that they collectively weren't good enough.

We are simply what we are. The performances against the weaker sides have formed a large enough sample size to be considered a trend. They aren't some anomalous instance of inconsistency.
The samples from last season saw us third placed, with the second half of that season being brilliant, while the sample size this season isn't anywhere near big enough (yet) to conclude anything at all.
 

Greck

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The samples from last season saw us third placed, with the second half of that season being brilliant, while the sample size this season isn't anywhere near big enough (yet) to conclude anything at all.
So we conveniently use only the half season sample from last year? Well no wonder it's not big enough. You're chopping and using samples as you like. Why not take the entire 12 months as a whole?
 

Slysi17

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That's just your opinion. Half of the season was severely hampered by key injuries to what wasn't a great sqaud. James, Pereira, Mata, Lingard were some of our most used players, even Fred and McTominay were not seen as useful as what they are today.
So what's the excuse for this season then. Have had basically a fully fit squad.
 

Slysi17

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What are you basing this on. We have tried with experienced managers and successful managers, but the football has been awful at least we are exciting to watch now. I fully expect us to win a trophy this season with Ole (probably the league cup) do you want Poch who has won less than Ole
Are you kidding me. We have been boring. Basically it's let the opposition have the ball and hit them on the counter. Basically we are a rich stoke city. Do you have any standards at all?
 

Sky1981

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So basically, we will need :

1. Help Ole with world class coach
2. Assign a world class DOF to guide him
3. Give him 200-300M in the form of Sancho / Grealish
4. Give him 2 more years to settle Sancho Grealish


I'm started to think we're a help a legend foundation
 

Sky1981

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I cant and won't try to shoot down anybody that says they have some doubts about Ole. After all, he has yet to win a trophy here and we havent yet found that consistency. To have doubts is completely understandable.

What I dont agree with is that he should have had all of this necessarily figured out after two years. IMO that would be underestimating the size of the task that he has taken on.

For me he has already answered a lot of questions. He has spent well for the most part. He has held his own, and then some, against the elite coaches he's faced. He has a squad of players who look like they are willing to fight for him (most of them anyway). He's been a dignified manager. He doesnt make it about him like many of them do - its clear that he bleeds United and will do anything for this club. That might not mean much for some but it means something to me.

What he now needs to do is to find a way to get consistency out of this team. If he does that then he could end up lasting a decade here, and we will be successful.
If he loves United he'll resign.

If he hold his hands up, I'm not good enough to manage the team I love then I'll say he literally bleed reds.

Not when he's stinking up the place with his mismanagement while getting paid handsomely. That's not love dear, that's just a logical business decision
 

TheDoc

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So we conveniently use only the half season sample from last year? Well no wonder it's not big enough. You're chopping and using samples as you like. Why not take the entire 12 months as a whole?
Where did I do that? Now you're just making stuff up. What I said was this...

The samples from last season saw us third placed, with the second half of that season being brilliant, while the sample size this season isn't anywhere near big enough (yet) to conclude anything at all.
...and yeah I do believe it was that season in its entirety which placed us third, I'm pretty sure at least they counted the whole thing. We were the third best team last year, over the course of 38 full games, only City and a record-breaking unbelievably brilliant Liverpool doing better. That's a decent sample right there, which is probably why a season lasts for 38 full games (it's almost as if they've planned for it), while this year's sample so far is too small in size to conclude anything.

So what's the excuse for this season then. Have had basically a fully fit squad.
I don't ever make excuses, I just think you all need to chill. In fact I'd even be so harsh as to call a lot of what I'm reading here and elsewhere downright ridiculous. We're only seven games in, eight points from the top with one match to spare. A couple of our performances have been "meh", two of these horrible (Tottenham and Istanbul), but we've had some moments of absolute brilliance too both in the league but also against some of Europe's top team. We're placed first in our CL-group, the toughest group of them all, and we're still well within reach in the league too as there are so many games left to play that I'm not even sure why we're having this discussion at present

. So no, sorry, but I don't feel the need to have a meltdown as of now. It's too soon to start peeing one's pants or going off in rage and hysteria calling for everyone's heads, dragging all and everyone through the dirt as if the world itself was falling apart around us. In fact, that's never a sound reaction no matter what, it's quite immature. We've hit a few bumps is all, many of the other top contenders have too, and unless this persists throughout there's nothing to start crying about.

I mean seriously: Writing a season off before a third of it is played, drawing your conclusions after just seven games... It's as if you've never experienced football before, ever. That's a level of defeatism I'm incapable of embracing. Sorry to disappoint, but I'm simply not that fragile and I'd actually feel quite embarrassed if I were.

If he loves United he'll resign.

If he hold his hands up, I'm not good enough to manage the team I love then I'll say he literally bleed reds.

Not when he's stinking up the place with his mismanagement while getting paid handsomely. That's not love dear, that's just a logical business decision
If you love United you'll start supporting the team, not jumping at every (perceived) opportunity to undermine it, dragging its representatives through the mud. Maybe you should focus more on doing your job right, before criticizing anyone else.

... and those were my four posts of the day, you kids have fun ^^
 

pass.pass.pass

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So basically, we will need :

1. Help Ole with world class coach
2. Assign a world class DOF to guide him
3. Give him 200-300M in the form of Sancho / Grealish
4. Give him 2 more years to settle Sancho Grealish


I'm started to think we're a help a legend foundation
Perfectly summed up :lol:

People looking at our rivals' results over the weekend and going, "See! Arsenal are not that well-coached either!" There will always be an excuse for Ole.

Even Mourinho (who I wanted to be sacked at United) is getting Spurs to play his ugly but effective style of football. How long has he been at Spurs for? But somehow, we cannot demand a consistent style from our manager because he happens to be a player-legend. Our football is both ugly and ineffective.
 

Sky1981

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Where did I do that? Now you're just making stuff up. What I said was this...



...and yeah I do believe it was that season in its entirety which placed us third, I'm pretty sure at least they counted the whole thing. We were the third best team last year, over the course of 38 full games, only City and a record-breaking unbelievably brilliant Liverpool doing better. That's a decent sample right there, which is probably why a season lasts for 38 full games (it's almost as if they've planned for it), while this year's sample so far is too small in size to conclude anything.



I don't ever make excuses, I just think you all need to chill. In fact I'd even be so harsh as to call a lot of what I'm reading here and elsewhere downright ridiculous. We're only seven games in, eight points from the top with one match to spare. A couple of our performances have been "meh", two of these horrible (Tottenham and Istanbul), but we've had some moments of absolute brilliance too both in the league but also against some of Europe's top team. We're placed first in our CL-group, the toughest group of them all, and we're still well within reach in the league too as there are so many games left to play that I'm not even sure why we're having this discussion at present

. So no, sorry, but I don't feel the need to have a meltdown as of now. It's too soon to start peeing one's pants or going off in rage and hysteria calling for everyone's heads, dragging all and everyone through the dirt as if the world itself was falling apart around us. In fact, that's never a sound reaction no matter what, it's quite immature. We've hit a few bumps is all, many of the other top contenders have too, and unless this persists throughout there's nothing to start crying about.

I mean seriously: Writing a season off before a third of it is played, drawing your conclusions after just seven games... It's as if you've never experienced football before, ever. That's a level of defeatism I'm incapable of embracing. Sorry to disappoint, but I'm simply not that fragile and I'd actually feel quite embarrassed if I were.



If you love United you'll start supporting the team, not jumping at every (perceived) opportunity to undermine it, dragging its representatives through the mud. Maybe you should focus more on doing your job right, before criticizing anyone else.

... and those were my four posts of the day, you kids have fun ^^
My definition of support is to demand certain level of excellent, just like SAF taught me.

If he has your mentality we won't be the United of today.
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
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Messages
61,529
So basically, we will need :

1. Help Ole with world class coach
2. Assign a world class DOF to guide him
3. Give him 200-300M in the form of Sancho / Grealish
4. Give him 2 more years to settle Sancho Grealish


I'm started to think we're a help a legend foundation
I am more Ole out then an Ole in supporter.

1-2- That is needed irrespective of the managers in place. Managers can't tour the world in search for the best players while concurrently dealing with agents, clubs AND coaching a squad on a day to day basis. The club needs a top DOF, a top HOR and an experienced coaching staff that are there out of merit not out of history with the club or manager in question
3-4- Those are unrealistic demands. Demanding the club to fork 200m in the middle of a pandemic after spending 200m the year before is silly especially since 145m worth of that same talent had hardly done very well with United either.
 

Sky1981

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I am more Ole out then an Ole in supporter.

1-2- That is needed irrespective of the managers in place. Managers can't tour the world in search for the best players while concurrently dealing with agents, clubs AND coaching a squad on a day to day basis. The club needs a top DOF, a top HOR and an experienced coaching staff that are there out of merit not out of history with the club or manager in question
3-4- Those are unrealistic demands. Demanding the club to fork 200m in the middle of a pandemic after spending 200m the year before is silly especially since 145m worth of that same talent had hardly done very well with United either.
No 1 is true.

But you need to be smarter than your No.2 in order to utilize them, at the very least you need to be smarter than them to know that they're smarter than you in some aspect. SAF delegated alot, but he's smart enough and experienced enough to judge the result of his No.2

Unless your No. 2 is fully in charge you'll need to decide what to ask, what to agree to, what to instruct etc. Even if they come up with a brilliant idea you have to know it is one , and likewise if they come up with stupid suggestions.

Even Gary neville looks smart to me listening to him speaking, he looks convincing in his tactical analysis. But we all know how it went.
 

Greck

Full Member
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Messages
7,099
Where did I do that? Now you're just making stuff up. What I said was this...



...and yeah I do believe it was that season in its entirety which placed us third, I'm pretty sure at least they counted the whole thing. We were the third best team last year, over the course of 38 full games, only City and a record-breaking unbelievably brilliant Liverpool doing better. That's a decent sample right there, which is probably why a season lasts for 38 full games (it's almost as if they've planned for it), while this year's sample so far is too small in size to conclude anything.



I don't ever make excuses, I just think you all need to chill. In fact I'd even be so harsh as to call a lot of what I'm reading here and elsewhere downright ridiculous. We're only seven games in, eight points from the top with one match to spare. A couple of our performances have been "meh", two of these horrible (Tottenham and Istanbul), but we've had some moments of absolute brilliance too both in the league but also against some of Europe's top team. We're placed first in our CL-group, the toughest group of them all, and we're still well within reach in the league too as there are so many games left to play that I'm not even sure why we're having this discussion at present

. So no, sorry, but I don't feel the need to have a meltdown as of now. It's too soon to start peeing one's pants or going off in rage and hysteria calling for everyone's heads, dragging all and everyone through the dirt as if the world itself was falling apart around us. In fact, that's never a sound reaction no matter what, it's quite immature. We've hit a few bumps is all, many of the other top contenders have too, and unless this persists throughout there's nothing to start crying about.

I mean seriously: Writing a season off before a third of it is played, drawing your conclusions after just seven games... It's as if you've never experienced football before, ever. That's a level of defeatism I'm incapable of embracing. Sorry to disappoint, but I'm simply not that fragile and I'd actually feel quite embarrassed if I were.



If you love United you'll start supporting the team, not jumping at every (perceived) opportunity to undermine it, dragging its representatives through the mud. Maybe you should focus more on doing your job right, before criticizing anyone else.

... and those were my four posts of the day, you kids have fun ^^
Way to lose track of the post you quoted. Let me recap for you. I say our struggles against smaller teams is deeper than inconsistency implying it's also tactical, You challenge my suggestion that our issue against the smaller teams is deeper than inconsistency by citing the 2nd half of last season. I say you cant just cite one half and ignore Ole's entire body of work, you lose track of what's being discussed and start talking about finishing 3rd. Well I know we finished 3rd, how does that affect the point being made in the post you quoted?
 

TheDoc

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Insulting another member
Seems I have one more post actually. Was hoping I wouldn't need it though but...

My definition of support is to demand certain level of excellent, just like SAF taught me.

If he has your mentality we won't be the United of today.
Don't think for a moment you know anything about my mentality. If there was a crisis here, and if sacking Ole was the right thing to do, I'd wish him well and commend him on his effort but at the same time be happy to see him gone. Thing is, that's not what I'm witnessing and to me it would be way premature wanting him gone at this point. Now let me tell you something about Ferguson, an indisputable fact: If people were as quick jumping on the hate-train as you lot are, Ferguson wouldn't have made it past the eighties. And even if he did, experiencing all that success in the nineties, he'd get fired again in the early naughties when Arsenal and Chelsea both took turns leapfrogging us.

Because people were crying for this head then as well, despite his success, focusing only on results and our lack of dominance without considering context (we were in a generational shift / rebuild and others had caught up to us financially) at all.

And besides, being critical and wanting the best isn't why I feel you're acting all plastic fantastic here, it's not what I'm calling you out for at all. It's the way you go about it, this completely exaggerated level of negativity and how your present it. Solskjær hasn't been anywhere near as hopeless as you're making him out to be, and he doesn't deserve being labelled a parasite either. There are enough positives in fact, for a majority of fans to still want him here despite this bad opening to our present campaign, and you're downright hating on him.

One thing is thinking he won't succeed because his results are varied, being worried we might need someone else further down the line if he proves insufficient, but it's another thing entirely making him out to be some kind of clueless money-hogging fiend the way you do, dragging him through the mud.

You're not just acting like a child, but the kind of child even the other children kind of scoops away from because they don't want to be associated with them. Imagine entering the pitch, and being faced by a crowd of what you're representing. Who in their right minds would want to impress such people? A bunch of demanding, obnoxious dogshites?

Way to lose track of the post you quoted. Let me recap for you. I say our struggles against smaller teams is deeper than inconsistency implying it's also tactical, You challenge my suggestion that our issue against the smaller teams is deeper than inconsistency by citing the 2nd half of last season. I say you cant just cite one half and ignore Ole's entire body of work, you lose track of what's being discussed and start talking about finishing 3rd. Well I know we finished 3rd, how does that affect the point being made in the post you quoted?
I didn't lose track of anything, I simply never did what you accused me of doing. What you claim I said, isn't what I said at all, so don't take it out on me if you're illiterate and can't read.

Speak for yourself.

I'm not all about result, it's about seeing actuall coaching abilities. I don't see any in Ole. Not even if we give him another 400m and 3 years

He's just not a good coach. He's had 12 years in management, if he's any good he would have shown something by now. He's been managing us for 100+ games, maybe he's just not a good manager. Giving a manager 6 years doesn't automatically make him Ferguson
You not seeing it doesn't mean it's not there to be seen. To quote a proven genius: A fool sees not the same tree a wise man sees. So instead of being so over-the-top judgemental, so downright demeaning, so hostile, maybe you should consider the fact that you might be, perhaps, just a fool. In fact acting the way you do, so utterly exaggerated in your inclinations, so completely one-sided in your analysis, is usually an indication of just that. More so than merely being wrong, even.

And please. You have less than 100 post and you come here with the hollier than thou attitude as if you're the only one who supports the club and everyone else that dares to even question Ole is a plastic fantastic
I have the normal amount of holes, thank you very much, never once claimed to be the only one supporting this club and also I elaborated as to why I feel "supporters" like you are plastic fantastic. You're acting like trash, pretty much, adding to the negativity dragging our representatives through the mud at every given opportunity, behaving more like you'd expect rival fans to behave than someone who's actually, you know, being supportive.

I stand by that assessment, and consider the fact that you're now making stuff up and attacking my post count (as if that's an indication of anything at all), as further proof that you're not at all someone worth taking serious (or even resembling anything thereabouts). Funny thing too, it only took me a handful of sample-posts to reach this conclusion, while you on the other hand have posted 25.430 (!!!) times without ever realizing yourself how irrelevant you are.

Which causes me to wonder: You're just a tiny bit slow aren't you?
 
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Sky1981

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Under the bright neon lights of sincity
Seems I have one more post actually. Was hoping I wouldn't need it though but...



Don't think for a moment you know anything about my mentality. If there was a crisis here, and if sacking Ole was the right thing to do, I'd wish him well and commend him on his effort but at the same time be happy to see him gone. Thing is, that's not what I'm witnessing and to me it would be way premature wanting him gone at this point. Now let me tell you something about Ferguson, an indisputable fact: If people were as quick jumping on the hate-train as you lot are, Ferguson wouldn't have made it past the eighties. And even if he did, experiencing all that success in the nineties, he'd get fired again in the early naughties when Arsenal and Chelsea both took turns leapfrogging us.

Because people were crying for this head then as well, despite his success, focusing only on results and our lack of dominance without considering context (we were in a generational shift / rebuild and others had caught up to us financially) at all.

And besides, being critical and wanting the best isn't why I feel you're acting all plastic fantastic here, it's not what I'm calling you out for at all. It's the way you go about it, this completely exaggerated level of negativity and how your present it. Solskjær hasn't been anywhere near as hopeless as you're making him out to be, and he doesn't deserve being labelled a parasite either. There are enough positives in fact, for a majority of fans to still want him here despite this bad opening to our present campaign, and you're downright hating on him.

One thing is thinking he won't succeed because his results are varied, being worried we might need someone else further down the line if he proves insufficient, but it's another thing entirely making him out to be some kind of clueless money-hogging fiend the way you do, dragging him through the mud.

You're not just acting like a child, but the kind of child even the other children kind of scoops away from because they don't want to be associated with them. Imagine entering the pitch, and being faced by a crowd of what you're representing. Who in their right minds would want to impress such people? A bunch of demanding, obnoxious dogshites?



I didn't lose track of anything, I simply never did what you accused me of doing. What you claim I said, isn't what I said at all, so don't take it out on me if you're illiterate and can't read.
Speak for yourself.

I'm not all about result, it's about seeing actuall coaching abilities. I don't see any in Ole. Not even if we give him another 400m and 3 years

He's just not a good coach. He's had 12 years in management, if he's any good he would have shown something by now. He's been managing us for 100+ games, maybe he's just not a good manager. Giving a manager 6 years doesn't automatically make him Ferguson

And please. You have less than 100 post and you come here with the hollier than thou attitude as if you're the only one who supports the club and everyone else that dares to even question Ole is a plastic fantastic
 
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croadyman

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Messages
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yes we are. We are not the greatest team yet, but the team Ole is building, along with going back to basics with club values and approach, we seem to be in the right direction.

sir alex himself was given a chance when he got appointed to build team team that can succeed. A more recent example is liverpool. As a united fan i hate to say it, but as a football fan they are a great example. Klopp’s record after 100 games with liverpool is worse than Ole’s. Liverpool stuck by him and it paid off!

we need to stick with Ole. He’s building well. He’ll only gain experience in the process
Can people please stop comparing Ole to Klopp when there is a world of difference between leading Molde to a title in Norway and Dortmund to a Bundesliga title in Germany.

There is also the small matter of him getting them to a champions league final as well even though ultimately got beat by Bayern.
 
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