Would you swap Martial for Messi?

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Pexbo

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I'll take this to a new thread as its spoiling the Veratti thread currently.

Basically, I said I wouldn't swap anyone in the world for Martial - specifically Messi. Some have agreed, others view it as an "absurd opinion". I'm well aware that a lot of people will give it the same reaction and frankly I could care less, I'm more interested in what the general consensus is on it.

I appreciate the view that it's Lionel Messi, a once in 5 generations player and, in my own view, the greatest player to have ever kicked a ball.

My opinion though is that while I don't expect Martial to ever reach anything like his heights (He'll be a regular 30 goal a season player rather than a regular 60 goal a season player), I'd rather have a 20 year old Martial and watch his development arc (and hopefully the teams development arc) like what happened with Ronaldo, than have a 29 year old Messi who I expect to have another 2 or 3 years as the player he currently is before he evolves into a world class attacking midfielder with lesser figures.


If we could get a poll that would be great @Damien @Raoul
 

Sky1981

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Developing is overrated

One bird at hand than 2 bird at trees.

Martial is nothing special if you rank them among the greats at 19 (rooney, ronaldo, messi, etc) but messi at his best was something else
 

Sigma

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Personally, I wouldn't. Imaging how you would feel if he went on to become Messi like.
 

-Fußballgott-

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I'll take this to a new thread as its spoiling the Veratti thread currently.

Basically, I said I wouldn't swap anyone in the world for Martial - specifically Messi. Some have agreed, others view it as an "absurd opinion". I'm well aware that a lot of people will give it the same reaction and frankly I could care less, I'm more interested in what the general consensus is on it.

I appreciate the view that it's Lionel Messi, a once in 5 generations player and, in my own view, the greatest player to have ever kicked a ball.

My opinion though is that while I don't expect Martial to ever reach anything like his heights (He'll be a regular 30 goal a season player rather than a regular 60 goal a season player), I'd rather have a 20 year old Martial and watch his development arc (and hopefully the teams development arc) like what happened with Ronaldo, than have a 29 year old Messi who I expect to have another 2 or 3 years as the player he currently is before he evolves into a world class attacking midfielder with lesser figures.


If we could get a poll that would be great @Damien @Raoul
Yes, it's Messi. Even at 35 he'll be top 3 in the world imo. It would kill me to see Martial go, but Messi would carry us to leagues, champions leagues etc in a way no other player can. Seeing the GOAT in a United would be worth it. Having said that, I wouldn't swap Martial for any other player in the world aside from Messi.
 

-Fußballgott-

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Developing is overrated

One bird at hand than 2 bird at trees.

Martial is nothing special if you rank them among the greats at 19 (rooney, ronaldo, messi, etc) but messi at his best was something else
Martial is a lot better than Ronaldo was at 20..
 

Pexbo

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What a pointless thread.
What a pointless post. There's a discussion to be had - development vs buying developed. Sorry if it's not to your taste.
 

Un4givableB

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Martial may reach Thierry Henry levels as a player but no way will he reach (who does?) Messi level.

So,YES and l'd toss in De Dea as well,just to make seam a little fairer.
 

Pexbo

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Martial may reach Thierry Henry levels as a player but no way will he reach (who does?) Messi level.

So,YES and l'd toss in De Dea as well,just to make seam a little fairer.
I'd rather 15 years of Martial vs the 5 latter years of Messi which is the point of the thread really.
 

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Obviously. Messi is the greatest player of all time, and still the best in the world by some distance. Not like he's old either.
 

liamp

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From an on-the-pitch perspective, I'd probably agree with you. Messi's age definitely plays a huge factor, as does the long 12 year wait since the last time we've signed a young player with the current ability and upside of Martial.

I'd still take Messi because of the immense impact he'd have on the club in other areas. We're already a marketing juggernaut, but adding Messi would take it to an entirely new level. Financially, you'd see huge gains from adding the most recognizable individual player on the planet. The club would be able to gain traction in South America where the Spanish clubs reign supreme, which would hopefully prove fruitful when the club actually decides to start heavily recruiting from that area to try to find the next generation of talent. There are just too many off-the-pitch benefits from taking on a player like Messi that can't be ignored.
 
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Powderfinger

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Expecting Martial to regularly score 30 goals a season (all comps I assume) is not realistic. That is something top wide forwards like Hazard, Bale, Robben, and Sanchez have never done.

Just further shows how insane Messi is and why it would be crazy not to trade Martial for him.
 

Obiorahking_

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This is crazy and needs to be locked. at around Martials age Messi was already a runner up for the Ballon D Or. Messi is the greatest of the great who will arguably go down in history as the greatest to ever play the game. Messi is 28 and still has at least 4-5 years left in him before he returns back to humanity. This can't even be a discussion right now.
 

YouOnlyLiveTwice

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No.

Messi won it all, Martial has it all to do still and he will hopefully do it with us.

Also, i already know how Messi plays at his best, i would like to see how good Martial can be.
 

Obiorahking_

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No.

Messi won it all, Martial has it all to do still and he will hopefully do it with us.

Also, i already know how Messi plays at his best, i would like to see how good Martial can be.
That is your overall endgame? To see how a very talented young player develops under our club so that we can praise him as our own? Sentimentality instead of wanting your club to be the best it can possibly be? Sounds a bit weak IMO.
 

Pexbo

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Expecting Martial to regularly score 30 goals a season (all comps I assume) is not realistic. That is something top wide forwards like Hazard, Bale, Robben, and Sanchez have never done.

Just further shows how insane Messi is and why it would be crazy not to trade Martial for him.
I don't expect him to stay as a wide forward forever. He'll be the focal point of attack as a false 9 eventually. He scored 17 and assisted 11 in his first season in a new league, a new country and a new club which had zero creativity. He's perfectly capable of getting 20-25 league goals and 5-10 in other competitions when he's 22-30.
 

Pexbo

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That is your overall endgame? To see how a very talented young player develops under our club so that we can praise him as our own? Sentimentality instead of wanting your club to be the best it can possibly be? Sounds a bit weak IMO.
That's your endgame? 4-5 years rather than 10-15?
 

sullydnl

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Messi. The problem with picking Martial (aside from the obvious gap in quality) is that there's no guarantee he would stay for a long period, so you're not necessarily going to benefit from the one plus he has over Messi. Whereas Messi's plus points are very immediate and very certain.

Plus it's much easier to opt for Messi and find another Martial than it is to opt for Martial and find another Messi.
 

Un4givableB

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This is crazy and needs to be locked. at around Martials age Messi was already a runner up for the Ballon D Or. Messi is the greatest of the great who will arguably go down in history as the greatest to ever play the game. Messi is 28 and still has at least 4-5 years left in him before he returns back to humanity. This can't even be a discussion right now.
This

Martial is even behind Giroud in the French team,to me a fit Danny Welbeck is still the better player.There l said it.
 

manutddjw

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I would, but Messi is the only player I'd swap Martial for. If I can rationalize it in any way if Martial does become the player we all think he will, it unlikely he'd be here long term any way. If they need a player in that position, Barcelona or Real Madrid can pretty much get whoever they want. It would be naive to think Martial would be any different.
 

YouOnlyLiveTwice

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That is your overall endgame? To see how a very talented young player develops under our club so that we can praise him as our own? Sentimentality instead of wanting your club to be the best it can possibly be? Sounds a bit weak IMO.
No, it's just a preference.

I would have a bitter taste in my mouth if we swapped our most talented player, even for Messi.
 

Attila

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No.

Martial is 21 and is one of the best flair players I've seen at United since Ronaldo. I'm interested in seeing us develop him and to see what he can win for us (he's already brought us the FA cup). Considering we are moving into the position of being the richest club in the world with one of the best managers ever in Mourinho I think we could keep him for years to come. Plus he probably pays his taxes
 

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Confused as to why all the "no" votes don't have white text...

Seriously, Martial could hand in a transfer request next week. Then all that "he's the future" goes out the window. Messi is the best player on the planet right now.
 

Obiorahking_

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That's your endgame? 4-5 years rather than 10-15?
4-5 years is guaranteed years of success with a chance to build a team successful team to carry on past that. Not to mention, when you play with superstars like Messi, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Zidane etc...they are also elevating the play of everyone else around them. Can you say the same about Martial? No.

I think Martial can develop into a fantastic player for us is it guaranteed though? Absolutely not, how many players like him either get injured, dip for no apparent reason, become to in love with the fame aspect of the game instead of putting in the work, or a manager destroys their potential? Plenty, is it likely? Not really, but we would be very lucky to get somebody anywhere near the caliber of Messi.
 

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This

Martial is even behind Giroud in the French team,to me a fit Danny Welbeck is still the better player.There l said it.
Unforgivable this!!!

Nah

On this thread, I would. Messi is a player that rarely comes around in football but there can be many more Martial. Dembele, Mor, Ali, and many more players who has tons of potential, but can not reach the height of Messi
Ronaldo 03-04 was fun to watch, yet nowhere near as effective as Martial, and he's no less magical with the ball at his feet.

The height of Messi I'm sure no one in the near future will match but is he capable of producing that height again in a different team, different set up, potentially much less quality than his Barca team. This plus the age thing and the potential of Martial I would not swap him even for Messi.
 

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Interesting question. I think really there's not much debate that Messi is clearly the best, safest bet, but I can agree with the romanticism of a young player rising to the top with the team you support being a compelling and perhaps more enjoyable experience.

As it is though, seeing Messi in a United jersey would be pretty great as well and I'd have to go with that. Swap em.
Martial is even behind Giroud in the French team,to me a fit Danny Welbeck is still the better player.There l said it.
I simply cannot even :houllier:
 

Pexbo

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Confused as to why all the "no" votes don't have white text...

Seriously, Martial could hand in a transfer request next week. Then all that "he's the future" goes out the window. Messi is the best player on the planet right now.
And Messi could do a Di Maria if he joined us and decide he's not interested in our club or league. He might also be a much lesser player without Xavi and Iniesta behind him and Suarez and Neymar alongside him. He certainly wouldn't get 60 goals for us.

We can all come up with hypothetics.
 

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Martial has been good , but nowhere near as good as has been made out on this forum .

I'd trade him just for 1 season of messi .
 

-Fußballgott-

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Nah


On this thread, I would. Messi is a player that rarely comes around in football but there can be many more Martial. Dembele, Mor, Ali, and many more players who has tons of potential, but can not reach the height of Messi
Ronaldo was inconsistent as hell for us at Martials age. All flash and occasional brilliance, but infuriatingly inconsistent. Martial's decision making, finishing and end product are light years ahead of a 20 y/o Ron. The stats provide evidence of that.
 

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And Messi could do a Di Maria if he joined us and decide he's not interested in our club or league. He might also be a much lesser player without Xavi and Iniesta behind him and Suarez and Neymar alongside him. He certainly wouldn't get 60 goals for us.

We can all come up with hypothetics.
The man scored 3 off the bench in like 20 minutes a few days ago. And if by some turn of events we ended up with him, it would mean he left the club that has basically helped raise him. Basically, if we ever got him, it would absolutely be his choice to come to Manchester.
 
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