Would you take Conte at United?

[Swordsman]

for "instant" success, yes. I will take Conte here, especially Ronaldo is here to win trophies, Ronaldo doesn't have lots of time for the so called "project building" to be completed.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

No, for the reason of

1. Conte is conservative in tactics, which is OK with me, but not to many fans. Just recall all those negative comment on Mourinho even when we were winning...
2. Conte is not so good in handling super ego players, as evidence in Chelsea
3. Conte has certain fixed idea on formation and tactics, which normally take times to adapt to. If he can't deliver within 6 months, what is next
4. In short, the only positive point about Conte is that he is media-shy, so unlikely to say anything stupid in front of camera (really?). So a media-shy Mourinho to me. Anyone want Mourinho back?

Surprised by some of the points here.
If anything, Conte's experiences at Juventus and Chelsea showed that he's adept at handling big egos. He walked into. Chelsea team that was replete with egos and which had essentially made sure Mourinho was sacked the previous season, and immediately won the title at a canter - with 93 points.

Tactically, it was precisely his adjustments that catalyzed the successes at his 3 previous clubs.

The negatives (his outbursts and recalcitrance) could be adduced as reasons to steer clear, but I'm not sure criticizing his man management skills or his tactical nuisance are valid criticisms.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

we want a singular footballing direction. Conte's style is absolutely nothing like the incumbent's, [plays a different formation and he doesn't care for youth. It makes no sense on any level

 

[largelyworried]

we want a singular footballing direction. Conte's style is absolutely nothing like the incumbent's, plays a different formation and he doesn't care for youth. It makes no sense on any level

While I agree that Conte is a particularly big jump, its also fair to say that not many managers we might go for are going to be like Ole. Someone like Ten Haag would be just as big a departure in style, just in a different way. Likewise if we got one of the various German club managers that come along from time to time, the same would be true.

Zidane is perhaps the only option that is comparable, in that he's more pragmatic than dogmatic. He'd probably go with the squad he found, with minor changes. But even then, his record with young players isn't particularly outstanding and he would be much more of a coach than a club manager, as Ole has become. So whoever we go for next is unlikely to mean much continuity.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

While I agree that Conte is a particularly big jump, its also fair to say that not many managers we might go for are going to be like Ole.

It isn't. There are a number of managers who do what Ole tries to do better than him. Zidane, Ten Hag, Mancini and Luis Enrique are 3 that immediately spring to mind. The footballing direction would not be changing, It would simply be getting refined.

With a Conte it would be a 360 like we did with Mourinho to Van Gaal,

Someone like Ten Haag would be just as big a departure in style, just in a different way. Likewise if we got one of the various German club managers that come along from time to time, the same would be true.

Is he really though? Ole likes attacking football, desires possession football, likes to develop youth and liks a team excellent in transitions. Ten Hag is all these things to a much higher and refined degree.

Zidane is perhaps the only option that is comparable, in that he's more pragmatic than dogmatic. He'd probably go with the squad he found, with minor changes. But even then, his record with young players isn't particularly outstanding and he would be much more of a coach than a club manager, as Ole has become. So whoever we go for next is unlikely to mean much continuity.

Zidane is better with youth than people think. He trusted the likes of Vincius even with their inconsistencies. He also did very well with Real Madrid's B team. He infact is closest in style to Solsjkaer

 

[largelyworried]

It isn't. There are a number of managers who do what Ole tries to do better than him. Zidane, Ten Hag, Mancini and Luis Enrique are 3 that immediately spring to mind. The footballing direction would not be changing, It would simply be getting refined.

With a Conte it would be a 360 like we did with Mourinho to Van Gaal,

Is he really though? Ole likes attacking football, desires possession football, likes to develop youth and liks a team excellent in transitions. Ten Hag is all these things to a much higher and refined degree.

Zidane is better with youth than people think. He trusted the likes of Vincius even with their inconsistencies. He also did very well with Real Madrid's B team. He infact is closest in style to Solsjkaer

If you think Ten Haag and Ole are similar in style and approach, lets just leave it there. That gap is to big to bridge.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

The only thing too hurt us from the SAF era. The board and the fans are looking for managers for years which is not how it works. SAF was a exception to the norm even years ago when managers lasted longer, it’s not how it works.

The way should be sack if they don’t meet requirements and along the line you will get a Klopp/Pep manager that will do a great job and stick around for a few years. But we need to get out of the “he’s good but will only last 2 years”.

Not just the Fergie era but post. Assuming at least one of LVG Moyes ot Mourinho were successful here, more people would have been calling for Ole sack or doubting him at least. Instead we've had 3 managers post Fergie, 2 thought to be worldclass, fail to win anything major and not just that but they also set the club back with poor recruitment.

The only proof we have of the effect of sacking and hiring managers is one where winning major trophies is far from a guarantee and poor recruitment is almost certain. Because of this alot of 'Ole inners' are reluctant to give up on Ole whose recruitment has been strong and has come second place to winning a major trophy

 

[Real Name]

He'll be Mourinho mark 2. Maybe it will be all good in the beginning, maybe we'll even win something but wherever he is he always leaves with a bang and goes in fights with everyone.

 

[Bebestation]

I just don't have that much of an interest in winning one title.

It's a bit meh.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

If you think Ten Haag and Ole are similar in style and approach, lets just leave it there. That gap is to big to bridge.

You simply don't get it. Ten haag would not be a u-turn in footballing direction for united. It would be an upgrade. Which is the whole point

 

[DWelbz19]

I just don't have that much of an interest in winning one title.

It's a bit meh.

Fair. We can carry on consistently winning zero instead!

 

[JPRouve]

You simply don't get it. Ten haag would not be a u-turn in footballing direction for united. It would be an upgrade. Which is the whole point

Agreed. But in general Ole didn't create a strong football direction almost all managers wouldn't be a u-turn. If I was to describe United under Ole it would be, jacks of all trades, masters of none.

 

[youmeletsfly]

Agreed. But in general Ole didn't create a strong football direction almost all managers wouldn't be a u-turn. If I was to describe United under Ole it would be, jacks of all trades, masters of none.

I'd go as far as saying it in a simple word, average. A team that is consistently average and pulls up some good performances in some big games.

 

[JPRouve]

I'd go as far as saying it in a simple word, average. A team that is consistently average and pulls up some good performances in some big games.

That wasn't the point. I'm talking about the identity of the team, it's in relation to what type of manager should follow Ole if needed.

 

[Rockets Redglare]

I just don't have that much of an interest in winning one title.

It's a bit meh.

Ok we’ll keep Solskjaer and never win one again.

 

[Bebestation]

Fair. We can carry on consistently winning zero instead!

I just think any good manager should be able to win a title with the squad that Ole has left behind. So do we really need to go for conte?

This is the best United squad since 2008. That's not that I'm saying that I'm sure Ole can win stuff - it's just sacking Ole to get a manager that only wins 1 title with these lot seems a bit disssapointing. No CL'S guaranteed. A fight with a major player before they leave will most likely happen. Players like Lukaku, Sanchez and Young will be bought by Conte because he can make them work whilst Ole tried quite hard to get this kind of mould out of the club in the first place.

All of this for one trophy?

I'm just not that interested.

I just feel kind of patient at the moment- potentially happy with Ole thinking about selling the next group of players like Tuenzebe, Bailly, Matic, Martial, Williams, mata, dalot, Phil jones whilst fixing the next gaps we need like in midfield and attacking RB.

Again, I'm not sure or not what Ole can do - but for me Conte and his one trophy in one season doesn't wow me enough to stop this rebuild. I just kind of prefer to see it going and wait for that manager who kind of does - maybe Luis Enrique of Spain who will probably wait for his National team to finish another tournament.

 

[Infra-red]

He'll surely be Newcastle's first choice to quickly get them winning. They can bring in a Guardiola/Nagelsmann to play some easier on the eye football a few years down the line.

 

[pocco]

I just think any good manager should be able to win a title with the squad that Ole has left behind. So do we really need to go for conte?

This is the best United squad since 2008. That's not that I'm saying that I'm sure Ole can win stuff - it's just sacking Ole to get a manager that only wins 1 title with these lot seems a bit disssapointing. No CL'S guaranteed. A fight with a major player before they leave will most likely happen. Players like Lukaku, Sanchez and Young will be bought by Conte because he can make them work whilst Ole tried quite hard to get this kind of mould out of the club in the first place.

All of this for one trophy?

I'm just not that interested.

I just feel kind of patient at the moment- potentially happy with Ole thinking about selling the next group of players like Tuenzebe, Bailly, Matic, Martial, Williams, mata, dalot, Phil jones whilst fixing the next gaps we need like in midfield and attacking RB.

Again, I'm not sure or not what Ole can do - but for me Conte and his one trophy in one season doesn't wow me enough to stop this rebuild. I just kind of prefer to see it going and wait for that manager who kind of does - maybe Luis Enrique of Spain who will probably wait for his National team to finish another tournament.

Conte doesn't guarantee trophies. He might win none. Equally, he might win the treble. There's no point looking at it like you are. He might love it here and fall out with nobody, especially if he's backed like Ole.

 

[Bebestation]

Conte doesn't guarantee trophies. He might win none. Equally, he might win the treble. There's no point looking at it like you are. He might love it here and fall out with nobody, especially if he's backed like Ole.

For me I don't think Ole was backed to some crazy degree more sk than any other manager either. Just the same amount maybe at max 5-10% more.

The difference:

He got rid of 40+ players during his time here. That is mad. If that doesn't have any benefit on the amount you spend then nothing really does.

That's why I'm really interested in the next group of players United are selling.

 

[DWelbz19]

I just think any good manager should be able to win a title with the squad that Ole has left behind. So do we really need to go for conte?

This is the best United squad since 2008. That's not that I'm saying that I'm sure Ole can win stuff - it's just sacking Ole to get a manager that only wins 1 title with these lot seems a bit disssapointing. No CL'S guaranteed. A fight with a major player before they leave will most likely happen. Players like Lukaku, Sanchez and Young will be bought by Conte because he can make them work whilst Ole tried quite hard to get this kind of mould out of the club in the first place.

All of this for one trophy?

I'm just not that interested.

I just feel kind of patient at the moment- potentially happy with Ole thinking about selling the next group of players like Tuenzebe, Bailly, Matic, Martial, Williams, mata, dalot, Phil jones whilst fixing the next gaps we need like in midfield and attacking RB.

Again, I'm not sure or not what Ole can do - but for me Conte and his one trophy in one season doesn't wow me enough to stop this rebuild. I just kind of prefer to see it going and wait for that manager who kind of does - maybe Luis Enrique of Spain who will probably wait for his National team to finish another tournament.

You’re massively underestimating how hard it is to win a title. Conte is about as close to a guarantee you get to winning a league title and even he doesn’t guarantee you that.

Not every ‘good manager’ comes in and wins a title with this squad. Especially against Klopp, Tuchel, and Guardiola. Conte probably gives you the biggest chance, yeah, but most other managers aren’t coming in and instantly doing that.

 

[pocco]

For me I don't think Ole was backed to some crazy degree more sk than any other manager either. Just the same amount maybe at max 5-10% more.

The difference:

He got rid of 40+ players during his time here. That is mad. If that doesn't have any benefit on the amount you spend then nothing really does.

That's why I'm really interested in the next group of players United are selling.

I think you're alone now in being concerned with who we sell, or buy to some extent. Everybody, including Ole and the club, recognises that this team is now plenty good enough to bring something big home this season and play some amazing football. I can't wait!

 

[Bebestation]

You’re massively underestimating how hard it is to win a title. Conte is about as close to a guarantee you get to winning a league title and even he doesn’t guarantee you that.

Not every ‘good manager’ comes in and wins a title with this squad. Especially against Klopp, Tuchel, and Guardiola. Conte probably gives you the biggest chance, yeah, but most other managers aren’t coming in and instantly doing that.

I just said that because that's what people say about Ole. He should win a title with this squad apparently. Look at the post above.

If he should, then the managers who trump Ole should do too.

And again, turning this squad to a Conte style is revolting to me.

The lukaku style striker. The morata style striker. The young style of wing back.

It just doesn't wow me enough. It kind of feels like running over your family member to get their wallet so you can buy some cigarettes and then to pretend like it never happened. Good short term benefits but it can have some long term consequences.

Again, each to their own.

 

[Chairman Steve]

I would not. I think he’s currently like the 2000s Mourinho where he will work well at certain clubs but not necessarily the bigger clubs.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Agreed. But in general Ole didn't create a strong football direction almost all managers wouldn't be a u-turn. If I was to describe United under Ole it would be, jacks of all trades, masters of none.

rate him not. He brought back a path for youth to the first team, attacking football and ruthlessness in transition. Plus a clear recruitment plan in the transfer market Any manager who departs from these things together would be a change in footballing direction. Period.

 

[Bepi]

You’re massively underestimating how hard it is to win a title. Conte is about as close to a guarantee you get to winning a league title and even he doesn’t guarantee you that.

Not every ‘good manager’ comes in and wins a title with this squad. Especially against Klopp, Tuchel, and Guardiola. Conte probably gives you the biggest chance, yeah, but most other managers aren’t coming in and instantly doing that.

This. Conte is as proven at winning as any football club in Italy or England can get, not washed out as a coach and just mad for victory himself. The only reason you lot can afford to snub him now, in spite of having a squad as good as any of your domestic rivals (PSG and Bayern are a class above, for individuals or team culture), is you are not used to winning any more, which is just sad because there is simply no urgency from you to get there any more.

 

[kouroux]

I would. Easy decision.

 

[Teja]

That wasn't the point. I'm talking about the identity of the team, it's in relation to what type of manager should follow Ole if needed.

One aspect of our current play is routing things through Bruno and allowing him the freedom to try high risk balls repeatedly. It doesn't matter if that results in lost possession, we just believe he'll do more good than bad with the ball. I just don't think other coaches will give him the same amount of freedom and I'm not sure what impact it'll have on the team as a whole if Bruno is restrained.

The new guy basically needs to come in and basically start challenging right away and it's unlikely that we'll do that unless we get the best out of Bruno.

 

[JPRouve]

One aspect of our current play is routing things through Bruno and allowing him the freedom to try high risk balls repeatedly. It doesn't matter if that results in lost possession, we just believe he'll do more good than bad with the ball. I just don't think other coaches will give him the same amount of freedom and I'm not sure what impact it'll have on the team as a whole if Bruno is restrained.

The new guy basically needs to come in and basically start challenging right away and it's unlikely that we'll do that unless we get the best out of Bruno.

Players that take risks aren't really something special. All managers have them in the last third, those are the players that create chances, it's not as if Ole was special in that respect. Also if we use Ten Hag as a point of reference he had no issue with Ziyech who was losing possession in similar proportion.

 

[Teja]

Players that take risks aren't really something special. All managers have them in the last third, those are the players that create chances, it's not as if Ole was special in that respect. Also if we use Ten Hag as a point of reference he had no issue with Ziyech who was losing possession in similar proportion.

I haven't really looked at Ten Hag deeply but there are quite a few coaches that don't allow the same freedom for players express themselves, so we'd probably have to exclude all of the ball retention types if we want Bruno, Rashford, AwB, McFred etc to be a part of the team. That's 4 out of the current first 11.

Even if you think Ole's tactics / style don't prevent us from signing other coaches, the players we have available do. We can't wait for another wholesale squad rebuild before we challenge.

 

[JPRouve]

I haven't really looked at Ten Hag deeply but there are quite a few coaches that don't allow the same freedom for players express themselves, so we'd probably have to exclude all of the ball retention types if we want Bruno, Rashford, AwB, McFred etc to be a part of the team. That's 4 out of the current first 11.

Even if you think Ole's tactics / style don't prevent us from signing other coaches, the players we have available do. We can't wait for another wholesale squad rebuild before we challenge.

All managers allow a limited amount of player a similar amount of "freedom" and if Ole was to be replaced it would be because the way he does things isn't good enough, so bringing someone in order to do exactly what Ole does would be pointless.

 

[Sandikan]

Just something feels wrong with Conte.
It all feels very latter day Mourino for some reason.

 

[cyril C]

Surprised by some of the points here.
If anything, Conte's experiences at Juventus and Chelsea showed that he's adept at handling big egos. He walked into. Chelsea team that was replete with egos and which had essentially made sure Mourinho was sacked the previous season, and immediately won the title at a canter - with 93 points.

Tactically, it was precisely his adjustments that catalyzed the successes at his 3 previous clubs.

The negatives (his outbursts and recalcitrance) could be adduced as reasons to steer clear, but I'm not sure criticizing his man management skills or his tactical nuisance are valid criticisms.

Really, can you recall certain #9 striker? Conte is good in many aspects, but his BIGGEST limitation is on communication and people management

 

[cyril C]

Chelsea literally won, what, a dozen consecutive league games immediately after implementing his formation in his first season there?

They had the title won before the rest of the league had any clue what to do about them.

You are assuming MUtd squad is able to adapt to anyone's idea. We couldn't do it for Moyes (OK, may be with a 6ft tall #9, we could), nor for LVG, up and down under Mourinho. I am not saying we can't be managed, but it is probably the other way round, a manager can only achieve decent results by adapting his tactics to our squad, and fine tune it gradually.

 

[JPM#mufc]

I would but not with this squad as its the best one we've had since Fergie left.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

You are assuming MUtd squad is able to adapt to anyone's idea.

No I'm not.

You're assuming Conte's tactics take time to adapt, and I'm pointing to a very recent and relevant example of a Conte team winning immediately with no adaptation required.

 

[::sonny::]

Useless to talk about Conte

Ole gonna stay even in case of a relegation…

 

[padzilla]

It's mind blowing to me that some think we are better off with Ole than Conte.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I still think anyone that wants Conte is basically admitting they are desperate and have learnt absolutely nothing post Fergie. Those people are happy to scrap all of the hard work Ole has done over the last few seasons fixing the absolute mess Mourinho left just to attempt a desperate grab at a slice of success, rather than being patient and appointing someone who genuinely matches Utd culture and values. Are there better managers out there than Ole? Yes, but they also have to be a cultural and tactical fit or we will have those very same posters back here in 3 seasons moaning about how we have no continuity and how the board is incompetent. I just hope that above all else even if some of our fans haven’t learnt, I hope our board have.

 

[Strelok]

Ridiculous logic.
We shouldn't hire a competent and winning manager because we got butthurt by a couple of winning managers past their best?
This is how we stay in mediocrity.

So you like to getting butthurt I guess. I don't. It's ok to make a mistake, but to make the same mistake twice you're simply an imbecile.

If you actually read my post you'd see I'm not against top managers with a good CV, the "winning managers". I really like Zidane for example. I'm only against the logic of choosing a manager solely based on their CV alone without looking into whether if that manager would actually suit our situation.

 

[Bebestation]

I still think anyone that wants Conte is basically admitting they are desperate and have learnt absolutely nothing post Fergie. Those people are happy to scrap all of the hard work Ole has done over the last few seasons fixing the absolute mess Mourinho left just to attempt a desperate grab at a slice of success, rather than being patient and appointing someone who genuinely matches Utd culture and values. Are there better managers out there than Ole? Yes, but they also have to be a cultural and tactical fit or we will have those very same posters back here in 3 seasons moaning about how we have no continuity and how the board is incompetent. I just hope that above all else even if some of our fans haven’t learnt, I hope our board have.

The thing with Conte is - is not what happens during Conte.

What happens after Conte?

We went from Moyes's league 1 football to Van Gaal's Possesion football to Mourinho's Park the bus.

Conte can win us a single title but will leave us in a mess, fighting with our most important players he cannot tactically utelise. One player will definitely leave him that is important to us. My guess is Bruno Fernandes due to him not being that important in getting the best out of Ronaldo but I could be wrong.

What happens when his tenure is over?

We go for a manager who is the complete opposite of what Conte has done. The complete opposite. Maybe a possession manager again and the value of player switches.

The Lukaku type of striker that Conte needs/ a must have in his team is suddenly a block in this new managers team and we reshuffle again.

The players are all over the place.

I'm just not that interested by Conte. A single trophy that Conte brings with all the baggage he brings just does not wow me enough. I don't think anyone says Ole is better because he isnt - but the football isn't that beautiful under Conte either. Players I dont enjoy, football I don't like, short term benefits, long term problems. I'd rather wait for a better fit to take this group of players across. Conte after Mourinho makes sense. Conte after Ole seems a bit Mourinho after Van Gaal again.