Too much passing and possession for the average United fan. Our fanbase seems weirdly obsessed with very vertical football.
Would you take Conte at United?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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I voted no purely because it’s not a binary choice between Ole and Conte.
I took it as it was in this thread, as all the no's to me suggest we would rather have what is being served now. Perhaps I misinterpreted.
Isn't that the point of the thread?
Would set us back in the long term by saddling us with aging mercenaries and be gone after 2 seasons. He's essentially Mourinho but doesn't fall out with the players. Moreover his champions league record is terrible.
This.
Mourinho's attacking record is only with Madrid, Conte on the other hand seems to get his team scoring goals wherever he goes. Every big team he has managed has scored 80+ goals in a season atleast once. Also the simeone comparison is just bonkers, in his time with Atletico Simeone's team have scored more than 70 goals just twice, Conte's on the other hand have teams have failed to score atleast 70 in a season goals only twice, 1st time was his first season with juve, the other time was when Chelsea finished 5th.
Exactly.
He is a short term fix that “might” bring us a trophy.
Is he a better manager than Ole ? Yes
Would he suit us ? I don’t think so
The time to get him was either after Van Gaal or Mourinho. He could have used his mercenaries to get us to a title but now it would be a step back. I'd take a chance on Pochettino first
I went back to the OP and there’s no criteria that it’s a choice between Ole and Conte. Unless maybe I’m mistaken?
But yeah, Conte’s a winner but I’m not really a fan of his.
Are we being a little unfair on Conte?
I don't necessarily disagree with how he is viewed but isn't it about the job description?
If you're appointed a manager with a remit of success now then surely you would maybe focus on aging established players to get quick wins?
With regard to his temperament then I'm not sure how well some of you knew SAF. Maybe it's what's needed to get this club back up and firing?
I don't know if he would be right for us long term, or even short term but you can never know until it becomes a reality.
All I know is I was all for Ole with the remit of stopping the rot. He seems to have done some of that, albeit I'm not sure what the direction is anymore. We went from buying young and thinking of the future to having Mata, matic, cavani and Ronaldo on the books and the youngsters haven't been utilised. I'm thinking Amad, dvb and even elanga etc albeit they have had bits of games.
Conte coming in, and his style would see us definitely filling positions most of us have been saying we lack. Based on what he has done elsewhere and where we seem to be struggling, position wise.
Will he be right? Don't know is the honest answer. But I think he has more in common with SAF than some would like to admit. Not just temperament but his winning leagues whilst struggling in CL, buying players for big money that are needed in key positions.
Just my thoughts
I don't necessarily disagree with how he is viewed but isn't it about the job description?
If you're appointed a manager with a remit of success now then surely you would maybe focus on aging established players to get quick wins?
With regard to his temperament then I'm not sure how well some of you knew SAF. Maybe it's what's needed to get this club back up and firing?
I don't know if he would be right for us long term, or even short term but you can never know until it becomes a reality.
All I know is I was all for Ole with the remit of stopping the rot. He seems to have done some of that, albeit I'm not sure what the direction is anymore. We went from buying young and thinking of the future to having Mata, matic, cavani and Ronaldo on the books and the youngsters haven't been utilised. I'm thinking Amad, dvb and even elanga etc albeit they have had bits of games.
Conte coming in, and his style would see us definitely filling positions most of us have been saying we lack. Based on what he has done elsewhere and where we seem to be struggling, position wise.
Will he be right? Don't know is the honest answer. But I think he has more in common with SAF than some would like to admit. Not just temperament but his winning leagues whilst struggling in CL, buying players for big money that are needed in key positions.
Just my thoughts
I would guess that a sizable chink of those voting "no" would still like to see Ole replaced with a top class manager, but consider other options preferable to Conte.
Conte in will mean we will have a system and we will be coached to play that system. He will bring in players that will suit the system if he feels what's in the squad is not good enough to play his system. He will ensure we will wingbacks capable of playing them postions. and we will play with width for 1st time so we can stretch the opposition. 2 centre forwards as well. We have options for them postions.
Because you suspect he'd play a fairly stale style of football, and be a bit Jose like in saddling us with mediocrity before quickly leaving.
Might be wrong, but that's my perception.
We already tried the full fat version, why would we go with the diet version. Just because he's marginally less obnoxious than the translator he'd still be a further backward step.
Disingenuous questions? I simply asked who you want us to sign as manager once we sack Ole (which is what you want.) I pointed out that Conte and Zidane aren’t exactly suited to United as a club, which is a view shared by the majority it seems, yet I’m the one bringing the quality of debate down?
There is no real debate to be had if a legitimate, available, well suited manager isn’t available to go and replace Ole with.
Sorry if I don’t just parrot your narrative, debate involves discussing the topic with people who have different views from you. I’m sorry it’s not all stamping our feet and chanting Ole out in unison.
For clarity its Conte you want?
I don't want Conte either, even if I do admire his persona as a coach. But for me it's about winning with a style of play that will excite us fans. People go on about Guardiola and Klopp and how there isn't another coach like them, which I disagree with. I believe there are coaches out there, who if given a opportunity can compete with the aforementioned two. Klopp and Tuchel are two names i've wanted here myself at a time when they were considered hipster choices whilst most were dreaming about Mourinho who apparently guaranteed a title win with-in two years.
Now we could come to a stage again with two obvious choices in Conte and Zidane who I believe we should swerve imo for a coach who implements a expansive brand of football which is in sync with the modern game, both on and off the ball. There's no guarantee with any manager/coach, but I personally hope we appoint someone who will look to exert zone control rather than cede control against the best teams. And that's how I believe we would make up the deficit to the likes of Liverpool, Chelsea and City.
Because its Oles team, Oles squad and he has earned his opportunity to show what he can do with it.
He has earned it because he has seen an overhaul of the playing staff from the darks days of the end of mouriniho's era where he picked up a horribly unbalanced squad full of players who had the wrong attitude or limited ability or both.
The attack and defence are almost unrecognisable from the start of his era and our now packed full of quality players the midfield of course is a weakness there's about 200m worth of talent bought by the previous manager in there and non of them are the required standard.
As it stands Ole doesn't deserve to be sacked, it may change in the future but we have been here before seemingly every season since Ole has been in charge he has increased expectations and every season the knives come flying out after one bad result and every season so far Ole rides the storm and improves the form and good results come and the knives go away again.
For what it's worth I don't think conte is a good fit, he's not done anything that amazing in his career to be shouting from the roof tops about.
the point is goals aren’t the only indicator of an attacking team. By the way Simione will never pack a bus against Tottenham unless there are other issues like red cards, multiple injuries etc. Whether his team goes on to score is not entirely on his defensive or offensive approach. More about taking chances when they come
Anyway we aren’t comparing Conte with Ole. Conte is clearly better but one thing I’ve learned about football overtime is that football can never be analysed on a spreadsheet.
Do I want Ole out? Absolutely. I just prefer someone who is gonna get us playing like Ajax 2yrs ago,BVB 2013, Baryern last season, Man City or Liverpool recently. I’ve never looked at any of Conte s teams and think this is how I want United to play .
Yeah, can't fault any of that. What are your thoughts on someone like Ten Haag?
Over Ole yes.
But he's not my first choice.
But he's not my first choice.
Ten Hag for me should be the #1 choice.
Pretty much this
My choice would be Mancini
Well yeah. Over Ole i would. If Zidane isnt coming.
Yeah, especially with the 2 “hipster” German coaches having just moved clubs
would be interested to see how ETH does when he gets a bigger move.
Ole won't get sacked as long as he makes it to top 4. That means that we're probably stuck to him till the end of the season
With that out of the way, here's my reason why I don't want Conte
A- He's a drama queen on Mourinho's proportions
B- He plays counter attack football
C- He's not very fond of flank men. We've got Sancho, Rashford, Greenwood and Martial playing there.
You can use this thread as a way of judging whether United won or lost their last game. If they won, then this thread will be filled with no's for a few pages. If they lose, they disappear and the critics show up and say yes.
With Mourinho we were being linked with Perisic and Willian. That is what we will go back to with Conte and if he doesn't get them he would throw a tantrum. No thanks!
It'll be interesting to see how he does. And if any team has aspirations to become a dominant team in the mould of City or Bayern, then Ten Hag is the profile of coach who can potentially help said team achieve that imo.Yeah, especially with the 2 “hipster” German coaches having just moved clubs
would be interested to see how ETH does when he gets a bigger move.
There's no guarantee with any coach but i'd rather see us at least attempt to bring in a coach who would look to make us a more dominant team against all comers.
You're spot on.You can use this thread as a way of judging whether United won or lost their last game. If they won, then this thread will be filled with no's for a few pages. If they lose, they disappear and the critics show up and say yes.
Yeah I think we’re of a similar opinion in terms of what/who we’d be looking to bring in, should Ole be sacked.
People said the same about Mourinho.
I'd happily take a chance on him. He'd be a gamble, undeniably, but his profile is right.
"Because its Oles team, Oles squad and he has earned his opportunity to show what he can do with it." My thoughts exactly
true which is a shame really. Ole had been riding on luck and on his player's individual brilliance for quite some time. You don't need a manager for that. Consistency AND the manager's vision/tactical awareness should be the yardstick on how a manager should be judged.You can use this thread as a way of judging whether United won or lost their last game. If they won, then this thread will be filled with no's for a few pages. If they lose, they disappear and the critics show up and say yes.
I respect you have a very different opinion of myself.
You say he deserves the chance to see what he can do. I feel he has had the chance to prove himself. We have been in the EL twice, both times with by far the best squad in the competition, yet both times he failed miserably with really poor performances when it really counted. I really struggle to get over the terrible in game management in the final.
I also don't give Ole, all the credit for the overhaul, there a many people involved in making that happen and while he is an important factor I feel with a more forward thinking coach we would have found a very similar path.
He has had over 400m spent over his tenure, so he has been backed and while finishing positions in the league have improved, not much else has. We still have no style of play, can't control a game and his ability for effect a game tactically isn't there. He relies on individual brilliance as he has done since he walked through the door.
Ultimately, I don't feel he has shown us anything to make us believe he can win trophies and have us regularly competing at the top, which should be the minimum requirement for a Manchester United manager.
That is just my opinion however, and I respect yours in different.
What I would like to ask, for you what would be the final straw where you would feel he needs to go?
I am not a fan of Ole and I've been consistent in my opinion since May 2019 that he isn't good enough for us.
But, Conte would be a terrible fit here. Top manager but not for us. To draw a parallel, it's like Lukaku. A top goalscorer, but doesn't suit us.
But, Conte would be a terrible fit here. Top manager but not for us. To draw a parallel, it's like Lukaku. A top goalscorer, but doesn't suit us.
Is Ole a short, medium or long term fix though?
Yes.
people wanting to uproot all that’s gone on the past few years and go back to the 2018 rinse and repeat cycle chasing instant success
What does it even mean when people say Conte "doesn't suit us"?
Does being in control of football matches tactically not suit us?
Does competing for trophies not suit us?
Becoming a well drilled team that is capable of scoring as well as maintaining defensive shape to nullify opposition attacks won't suit us?
Does being in control of football matches tactically not suit us?
Does competing for trophies not suit us?
Becoming a well drilled team that is capable of scoring as well as maintaining defensive shape to nullify opposition attacks won't suit us?
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