Would you take Ten Hag at United?

[hungrywing]

That's nonsense. Moyes was always an extremely negative, defensive manager ala Pullis and Big Sam. From what I remember, he literally didn't have a win against a top 4 side for his entire tenure at Everton. Always an underdog manager who was now tasked to actually dominate and win games. Never the right fit for us. Good for small clubs like Pullis is, but not for a top job. Potter is literally in the bracket of Nagelsmann/Rose. He wants to win and play exciting football at that. They are two entirely different managers in terms of mentality. And it's time for United fans to understand that every manager is a shot in the dark. There is no sure thing in football. We shouldn't be scared of our own shadow just because of that, otherwise we'll always be left last wondering why we continuously miss on managers like Klopp, Nagelsmann, Ten Hag, etc and why our rivals continue to beat us to the punch on everything.

orsonwellesclapping.gif.meme

also, to be fair, there are some ‘sure things’

 

[Hansi Fick]

Where's the logic in that?? Plus you're responsible for the poll to add up to over 100%
How can you have 2 contrasting opinions?????!

I'm not a United fan so it didn't feel like I should have a vote

 

[Suv666]

Because signing veteran, proven managers has worked so well for us..?

Well did exciting gambles work (Ole)?
Just because some established managers failed doesn't mean we should start recruiting newbies.

 

[Gfooty]

Cannot trust a manager who plays Haller upfront.

The Dutch league is worse than it ever was. If you look the players gone from the dutch league to top clubs nobody has really done well. Beek, Malen etc all have been underwhelming and they all have gone for huge sums.

Skeptical

Same Haller who is currently top scorer in CL? Just because someone didn't succeed at first doesn't mean they're a bad player. I can name a million examples but I'm sure you can think of some too

 

[VanDeBank]

If Ronaldo can't work like expected for 90min he could still become kind of a super sub. A good manager should be able to convince him of that at least. Bringing him on against tired defenders should always be fun.

Ronaldo is capable of working hard. Maybe just not for 90 minutes 2 times a week. So he plays 60 mins one game and 30 min another game, so what? I've seen him work hard at Juve and he won't moan if he's winning and scoring.

 

[VanDeBank]

Last season:

This season:

He worked with slow CBs in the past (De Ligt and Blind). So that means he has no problem with Maguire’s pace as his CB.
Gravenberch is pretty much Pogba. Klassen is pretty much Donny. Bruno is miles better than Berghuis. Ronaldo or Cavani can play in Haller’s role. Our wide players are better than Tadic and Antony. Overall, he has similar players as what we have right now but we have much better quality. The board should be looking for this guy if we are going to replace Ole. We need manager who can work with the current squad’s quality and Ten Hag has the potential.

Exactly, midfielders and attackers are stylistically no different from ours, except for Ronnie who isn't going to press like a lunatic for 90m.
The biggest obstacle will be playing out from the back. Their back 4 + GK are soooo much better than our guys at it. Once they've beaten the press, Ajax currently set up in a 3-1-5-1 in attack with one of the fullbacks (usually Mazraoui) and Gravenberch joinging the attacking positions. Shaw would be that attacking fullback us. He'd have to replace AWB and De Gea to play his exact system (that is if he doesn't adjust it). Other than those 2 and a DM he could play almost exactly like Ajax are doing right now with this squad.

 

[11101]

No point bringing in an unproven manager. The United job is massive would be a huge gamble bringing in someone who hasn't handled that sort of pressure. We need a veteran. Someone like Zidane or Conte.

There is no young and proven manager available. We've never appointed anybody like Ten Hag before.

Moyes - a defensive, conservative dinosaur whose only qualification was being Scottish.
LVG - a proven coach, but old and out of touch.
Mourinho - as proven as it gets, but he's out of touch with modern players.
Ole - young but has never been in touch.

Conte would probably be a cross between LVG and Mourinho.

We've done old and out of touch, or young and naïve. The one thing we haven't done, and the thing Ten Hag would bring, is a young hungry manager who actually knows how to coach and needs the opportunity to prove it on a bigger scale. That's what Pep, Klopp & Co were when they started out.

 

[Strelok]

There is no young and proven manager available. We've never appointed anybody like Ten Hag before.

Moyes - a defensive, conservative dinosaur whose only qualification was being Scottish.
LVG - a proven coach, but old and out of touch.
Mourinho - as proven as it gets, but he's out of touch with modern players.
Ole - young but has never been in touch.

Conte would probably be a cross between LVG and Mourinho.

We've done old and out of touch, or young and naïve. The one thing we haven't done, and the thing Ten Hag would bring, is a young hungry manager who actually knows how to coach and needs the opportunity to prove it on a bigger scale. That's what Pep, Klopp & Co were when they started out.

How about Zidane?

 

[Terranova]

The Dutch league is worse than it ever was.

Is it though? They way things are going right now, the Eredivisie is close to overtaking Ligue 1 and Liga NOS on coefficients, making it the 5th league, even if they don't, it's really close between those three leagues now.

 

[Carl]

Well did exciting gambles work (Ole)?
Just because some established managers failed doesn't mean we should start recruiting newbies.

Ole wasn't an exciting gamble. He was a caretaker that saw good results so was given the job.

 

[onemanarmy]

Is it though? They way things are going right now, the Eredivisie is close to overtaking Ligue 1 and Liga NOS on coefficients, making it the 5th league, even if they don't, it's really close between those three leagues now.

It is. How many of those coefficient points came from Ajax alone?

 

[Devil may care]

I'd rather wait to get this guy than give Zidane or Conte the job now.

 

[Flexdegea]

So true, people became too attached to Ole because they thought he would be the next Fergie so they kept saying, give the man time. Well almost 3 years later, even Breden Rogers has achieved more, 2 cups and elevated Leicester to two 5th positions which exceeds there norm. He also plays good attacking football. Ole, brought the culture back, but the football is as bad as it has always been since Fergie.

Hold on, is Rodgers getting credit for absolutely getting chased down in the league by Ole United, to get beat in the last game at home to finish 5th? And then not even being close the following season?


Imagine if this was the other way round. People underrate that Leicester team, they have a very good squad, and first 11. They no mugs and Rodgers is not working untold wonders at them. Fair play won a FA cup but so did Arteta.

 

[11101]

How about Zidane?

Hard to say. His first stint at Madrid could be explained by having such a stacked squad. His second stint whilst fairly successful wasn't nearly as impressive. My worry with him is that he's just a better version of Ole, players run through walls for him because of who he is. When that novelty runs out how much coaching ability does he really possess?

 

[Strelok]

Hard to say. His first stint at Madrid could be explained by having such a stacked squad. His second stint whilst fairly successful wasn't nearly as impressive. My worry with him is that he's just a better version of Ole, players run through walls for him because of who he is. When that novelty runs out how much coaching ability does he really possess?

There's nice thread about Zidane in the Football Forum you should have a look I think.

 

[MadMike]

Hard to say. His first stint at Madrid could be explained by having such a stacked squad. His second stint whilst fairly successful wasn't nearly as impressive. My worry with him is that he's just a better version of Ole, players run through walls for him because of who he is. When that novelty runs out how much coaching ability does he really possess?

If that was so easy we'd be winning back to back CLs with Ole too. Yet we struggle to get out of group stages.

I find it astonishing how people are so easily dismissing what is undoubtedly the most impressive club football achievement of all time. Pep's Barca with Messi, Xavi, Iniesta etc. did not once get back-to-back CLs... never mind 3 in a row. Pep's City and Tuchel's PSG, despite the billions spent and being stacked on every position with never-seen-before depth, they still couldn't get their hands on even one CL trophy. Yet the 3 CLs of Zidane can be easily explained away and his managerial ability doubted. Madness.

Even more mad when people say they'd rather stick with Ole, in absence of a better (in their minds) option, than go with Zidane. A man who's currently struggling and who's only previous managerial success was in Norway with Molde... vs a man who's coached a team to La Liga titles and back to back CL wins.

 

[11101]

If that was so easy we'd be winning back to back CLs with Ole too. Yet we struggle to get out of group stages.

I find it astonishing how people are so easily dismissing what is undoubtedly the most impressive club football achievement of all time. Pep's Barca with Messi, Xavi, Iniesta etc. did not once get back-to-back CLs... never mind 3 in a row. Pep's City and Tuchel's PSG, despite the billions spent and being stacked on every position with never-seen-before depth, they still couldn't get their hands on even one CL trophy. Yet the 3 CLs of Zidane can be easily explained away and his managerial ability doubted. Madness.

Even more mad when people say they'd rather stick with Ole, in absence of a better (in their minds) option, than go with Zidane. A man who's currently struggling and who's only previous managerial success was in Norway with Molde... vs a man who's coached a team to La Liga titles and back to back CL wins.

Well Pep's Barcelona had significantly better competition around at the time.

Anyway, I think it's pretty obvious he's a lot better than Ole. Is he as good as Klopp though? That's a much tougher question to answer and that's who Zidane would be expected to beat if he came here.

 

[Desert Eagle]

It's not that simple mate. Ole is our legend, has been our manager for three years, has done a fine job rebuilding the squad and you can see how the media and Ronaldo's fans react when Ole decided to "rest" him and we're having bad results. Now imagine an unproven manager, has no history with us, has won nothing big and in the same situation. That doesn't sound good tbh.

I'm not against a new manager. But imo the United job is simply a bit too big and too early for him, especially considering our current situation with Ronaldo and Pogba. We'd need someone with more prestige to handle that I think.

Fair enough. I think he'll do just fine if given the job.

 

[MadMike]

Well Pep's Barcelona had significantly better competition around at the time.

Anyway, I think it's pretty obvious he's a lot better than Ole. Is he as good as Klopp though? That's a much tougher question to answer and that's who Zidane would be expected to beat if he came here.

I don't agree that Pep's Barca had tougher competition, not one bit. In any case the question "would he prove as good/better than Klopp" is completely moot. Utterly pointless.

Firstly you won't know until he (or any other manager) tries his luck here. Secondly you could ask that question of every single top manager and not get a conclusive answer. You could argue Pep is not as good as Klopp given that Klopp has won the CL and EPL with a fraction of Pep's expenditure when Pep has failed to win the CL yet. Thirdly it only matters how well Zidane compares against the other managers available (for example, Ten Hag) and our current one. Not how he compares against Klopp. Klopp isn't available and it's not him we're looking to replace.. it's Ole.

 

[DJ_21]

That's nonsense. Moyes was always an extremely negative, defensive manager ala Pullis and Big Sam. From what I remember, he literally didn't have a win against a top 4 side for his entire tenure at Everton. Always an underdog manager who was now tasked to actually dominate and win games. Never the right fit for us. Good for small clubs like Pullis is, but not for a top job. Potter is literally in the bracket of Nagelsmann/Rose. He wants to win and play exciting football at that. They are two entirely different managers in terms of mentality. And it's time for United fans to understand that every manager is a shot in the dark. There is no sure thing in football. We shouldn't be scared of our own shadow just because of that, otherwise we'll always be left last wondering why we continuously miss on managers like Klopp, Nagelsmann, Ten Hag, etc and why our rivals continue to beat us to the punch on everything.

But would the players respect and listen to someone who hasn’t won anything? We’ve won something under LVG and mourinho because they know how to win things, we didn’t under moyes and we haven’t and probably won’t under ole, he only knows the club from his playing days.

 

[Hugh Jass]

I was blown away by Ajax that season they got to the Semis of the CL. Really should have won against Spurs. Ridiculously good football.

 

[11101]

I don't agree that Pep's Barca had tougher competition, not one bit. In any case the question "would he prove as good/better than Klopp" is completely moot. Utterly pointless.

Firstly you won't know until he (or any other manager) tries his luck here. Secondly you could ask that question of every single top manager and not get a conclusive answer. You could argue Pep is not as good as Klopp given that Klopp has won the CL and EPL with a fraction of Pep's expenditure when Pep has failed to win the CL yet. Thirdly it only matters how well Zidane compares against the other managers available (for example, Ten Hag) and our current one. Not how he compares against Klopp. Klopp isn't available and it's not him we're looking to replace.. it's Ole.

I am not saying Zidane is not good enough. I'd be delighted if he came here in place of Ole. Simply that he's not a sure thing as some of his supporters would have you believe. He's more reactive than proactive in his tactical style, and he's never managed anywhere outside the Real Madrid circus. Both big question marks for me.

 

[MadMike]

I am not saying Zidane is not good enough. I'd be delighted if he came here in place of Ole. Simply that he's not a sure thing as some of his supporters would have you believe. He's more reactive than proactive in his tactical style, and he's never managed anywhere outside the Real Madrid circus. Both big question marks for me.

If you mean his success is not a sure thing, then no of course it isn't. We brought in two managers with huge experience and pedigree in LVG and Mourinho before and it didn't work out either. There's no guarantees in football, just educated guesses.

I don't see it as a huge problem that he has not managed outside Madrid, Pep hadn't managed outside of Barca either until he did. We're more akin to Real Madrid and their circus than anything else anyway. For example Ten Hag (who this thread is about) has only managed senior teams in the Netherlands, an inferior league. He doesn't have the experience of a tougher, more competitive league and he's never had to deal with a team full of superstar personalities like Ronaldo, Pogba etc. Zidane has certainly done that and delivered. He will have Ronaldo, Pogba and Varane on-board immediately.

I mean a lot of it is subjective, I'm not berating you here. I understand some of your concerns. But I really don't like how people explain away 3 CLs in a row, like it's something natural. Zidane is currently the most successful manager in CL history along with Ancelotti and Bob Paisley. There's nothing lucky about it.

 

[Xaviesta]

Could you lot just leave any thought of appointing Ten Hag until the end of the season.

 

[Kaos]

Could you lot just leave any thought of appointing Ten Hag until the end of the season.

No. You can have Ole if you like.

 

[lsd]

No not in a million years. It is too much of a gamble to take another manager from a much inferior league and hope he shines in the premiership.

We have wasted years since Fergie left and made far to many wrong appointments. We have to choose a proven commodity at the top of their game.

 

[stefan92]

No not in a million years. It is too much of a gamble to take another manager from a much inferior league and hope he shines in the premiership.

We have wasted years since Fergie left and made far to many wrong appointments. We have to choose a proven commodity at the top of their game.

Who would that be?

 

[Cheimoon]

Cannot trust a manager who plays Haller upfront.
The Dutch league is worse than it ever was. If you look the players gone from the dutch league to top clubs nobody has really done well. Beek, Malen etc all have been underwhelming and they all have gone for huge sums.

Skeptical

Same Haller who is currently top scorer in CL? Just because someone didn't succeed at first doesn't mean they're a bad player. I can name a million examples but I'm sure you can think of some too

Also, Malen only just joined Dortmund, it's too early to say anything about that. And De Jong and De Ligt have been very good.

Either way, you can also turn that around: if Ten Hag had crap players all along, then it's quite a feat how they play their high-quality brand of players and how they perform in the PL.

I have no idea whether Ten Hag is a good fit for United btw; but I do think he appears to be a great coach.

 

[Leftback99]

If you mean his success is not a sure thing, then no of course it isn't. We brought in two managers with huge experience and pedigree in LVG and Mourinho before and it didn't work out either. There's no guarantees in football, just educated guesses.

I don't see it as a huge problem that he has not managed outside Madrid, Pep hadn't managed outside of Barca either until he did. We're more akin to Real Madrid and their circus than anything else anyway. For example Ten Hag (who this thread is about) has only managed senior teams in the Netherlands, an inferior league. He doesn't have the experience of a tougher, more competitive league and he's never had to deal with a team full of superstar personalities like Ronaldo, Pogba etc. Zidane has certainly done that and delivered. He will have Ronaldo, Pogba and Varane on-board immediately.

I mean a lot of it is subjective, I'm not berating you here. I understand some of your concerns. But I really don't like how people explain away 3 CLs in a row, like it's something natural. Zidane is currently the most successful manager in CL history along with Ancelotti and Bob Paisley. There's nothing lucky about it.

Why did he only win the league in one of those 3 seasons if he's that good? There's far more luck involved in winning the CL than a league, it's why SAF only won it twice. And let's face it the league is the one we care about more.

 

[Mark Witter]

I would take ten hag and van de star as technical director they play the right way

 

[Dante]

Is there anything to suggest he's better than Andre Villas Boas?

 

[Bole Top]

just before him, Frank de Boer won 4 league titles in row with Ajax, not to mention consecutive Rinus Michels awards. would anyone take him? and just before de Boer, Cocu had dominant three years there as well, winning 3 league titles and 2 cups. would anyone take him? stats don't lie + both of them are the same age as ten Hag so why not? the thing is, Dutch league is basically youth league these days. you have two clubs with money, the rest are U21 teams so it's difficult to rate their managers.

 

[goptun]

just before him, Frank de Boer won 4 league titles in row with Ajax, not to mention consecutive Rinus Michels awards. would anyone take him? and just before de Boer, Cocu had dominant three years there as well, winning 3 league titles and 2 cups. would anyone take him? stats don't lie + both of them are the same age as ten Hag so why not? the thing is, Dutch league is basically youth league these days. you have two clubs with money, the rest are U21 teams so it's difficult to rate their managers.

How did they do in the CL, out of interest?

 

[Terranova]

just before him, Frank de Boer won 4 league titles in row with Ajax, not to mention consecutive Rinus Michels awards. would anyone take him? and just before de Boer, Cocu had dominant three years there as well, winning 3 league titles and 2 cups. would anyone take him? stats don't lie + both of them are the same age as ten Hag so why not? the thing is, Dutch league is basically youth league these days. you have two clubs with money, the rest are U21 teams so it's difficult to rate their managers.

De Boer had Eriksen, Suarez(for a bit), Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Prime Stekelenburg, Prime Van der Wiel and young Daley Blind & Klaassen. Quite a bunch of good players.
So good results, but the football was horrendous though.

 

[MadMike]

Why did he only win the league in one of those 3 seasons if he's that good? There's far more luck involved in winning the CL than a league, it's why SAF only won it twice. And let's face it the league is the one we care about more.

Are you seriously asking why he didn't win 3 league and CL doubles on the trot? Is that the benchmark? If so, no manager in the history of football is good. Not one ever.

Also, he took over in January 2016 after Benitez got sacked. The 15-16 La Liga was already out of his hands as Real were far behind, you should know that if you're going to criticise his league performances. They were still in the CL however and he went on to win that. He did the CL and La Liga double the next season. And yes, they did have a very a bad league season in 17-18 by their standards finishing way off the top but he still delivered the CL.

Remember he also won the league in 19/20 with an ageing squad. The guy has 2 titles in 4 full seasons at Real. And on the 4th season (last year) he only missed out on the title by 2 points, which can be down to luck as much as any cup run. He basically had one bad season in the league in 4 years. If you think his league performances were bad, think again.

 

[lsd]

Is there anything to suggest he's better than Andre Villas Boas?

No there is nothing to suggest he is anything other than the latest flavour of the month.

Over 50 and from a rubbish League but yes let's put him in charge of United

 

[Cheimoon]

just before him, Frank de Boer won 4 league titles in row with Ajax, not to mention consecutive Rinus Michels awards. would anyone take him? and just before de Boer, Cocu had dominant three years there as well, winning 3 league titles and 2 cups. would anyone take him? stats don't lie + both of them are the same age as ten Hag so why not? the thing is, Dutch league is basically youth league these days. you have two clubs with money, the rest are U21 teams so it's difficult to rate their managers.

How did they do in the CL, out of interest?

As @Terranova said, De Boer wasn't much appreciated in the Netherlands. Ajax were happy with the championships of course, but people didn't like his football. In the CL, he finished third in the group in each of his four campaigns, and then made a swift exit from the EL as well. He faced strong CL opposition most years though. (2011/12: Real Madrid, Lyon, Dinamo Zagreb; 2012/13: Dortmund, Real Madrid, Man City; 2013/14: Barcelona, AC Milan, Celtic; 2014/15: Barcelona, PSG, APOEL Nicosia.)

Cocu did well in his first year in the CL, when they finished second in a group with Wolfsburg, Man United, and CSKA Moscow, and were then eliminated on penalties in the next round after playing 0-0 twice to Atlético Madrid. They finished last in Cocu's second CL campaign, in a group with Bayern, Atlético, and Rostov. I don't remember the football they played, but I did know I had high hopes for Cocu as a coach - which obviously didn't work out.

Anyway, people aren't basing their praise for Ten Hag just on stats about prizes won. I'm not sure why you are implying that.

 

[sullydnl]

just before him, Frank de Boer won 4 league titles in row with Ajax, not to mention consecutive Rinus Michels awards. would anyone take him? and just before de Boer, Cocu had dominant three years there as well, winning 3 league titles and 2 cups. would anyone take him? stats don't lie + both of them are the same age as ten Hag so why not? the thing is, Dutch league is basically youth league these days. you have two clubs with money, the rest are U21 teams so it's difficult to rate their managers.

The opinions of three Ajax-supporting posters on the Ten Hag/De Boer comparison.

The Frank de Boer comparisons are also incredibly lazy, as the situations were so different.

That Ajax was rebuilding and much worse. Worse squad in general whilst he could enjoy Eriksen, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Blind, Van der Wiel, Vurnon Anita and Siem de Jong in the first few years.

It was a boring side that struggled in Europe results wise (also some poor luck), but also were brave at times in Europe. He did well to win the league four times in a row whilst rebuilding, at the same time it says something about PSV and Feyenoord back then.

However fans were complaining whilst winning these titles because the "brand of football" wasnt good enough. His man management kinda only works in Holland and with young kids, and he's a big name in football. It is nowhere near the insane football Erik Ten Hag has his team playing with a good squad and players that have ego's or are from abroad.

I was initially a big sceptic when we got Ten Hag from Utrecht for the same reasons you doubt him. Did not really know the guy, only experience with a mid table team like FC Utrecht, little charisma, and seemed unremarkable. Just another uninspiring appointment from our DoF Overmars who is friends with him, but Overmars put a lot of faith in him and gave him the resources (we broke the wage and transfer ceiling in the 2018/2019 season which started when we signed Tadic and Blind) and Ten Hag proved him right on the pitch for which I give him a lot of credit. He got good players from the board, but he also executed and turned it into a good team. He plays attacking and dominant football, made us hard to beat, plays youngsters, and I also think he's a good people's manager while being much more comfortable in his presentation nowadays. Most of all, the players enjoy themselves on the pitch and it translates into results, not more that I can ask. Nowadays we can give any CL team a hard time while we seriously compete to make it past the CL group phase each season which I'd never expected a few years ago.

In my eyes he is therefore totally not comparable to Frank de Boer. In the years we played under Frank de Boer, we mostly played very very boring football. We won 4 league titles with him, but the football itself, the level of quality, and even the intention on the pitch is night and day. Very workmanship-like football with no joy on the pitch. Decent and unspectacular. If you look at the stats we scored 93, 83, 69, 81, 79 goals under Frank de Boer in his full seasons at Ajax. Under Ten Hag we scored 119 and 102 goals and we currently already have 30 after 8 games which is almost unprecedented even in the history of our "farmer" league. With Ten Hag we are dominant in the way that we should be given our huge budget compared to the other teams in the Eredivisie which is not a given if you look at history.

Comparing Erik Ten Hag with Frank de Boer as a manager is a bit of comparing Bruno Fernandes with Bebe as a player...

 

[ThemanGiggsy]

1-0 up on Dortmund after 11 minutes

 

[pocco]

2-0