Would you take Ten Hag at United?

Would you take Ten Hag at United?

  • Yes

    Votes: 1,547 92.3%
  • No

    Votes: 129 7.7%

  • Total voters
    1,676
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gajender

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@gajender I think I am getting even more confused which things did she/he say about John Murtough.
That John Murtough started as sports scientist at Everton and later served as the Premier League's head of elite performance in 2012 prior to joining United under Moyes and stayed on after Moyes was sacked and is also credited with Academy recruitments as well as structuring of United's Women Team .
 

KirkDuyt

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I wouldn't take Ten Hag. He will be like Donny. His football is perfect for Ajax with their type of players. Across the pond the players are diffirent, the intensity is different. Dude can hardly speak Dutch, let alone English. After the first defeat he would walk in to the press room and start talking and that will he his end right there. His name might not be De Boer, but he's a typical Dutch farmer who should just stay here.
 

hungrywing

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That John Murtough started as sports scientist at Everton and later served as the Premier League's head of elite performance in 2012 prior to joining United under Moyes and stayed on after Moyes was sacked and is also credited with Academy recruitments as well as structuring of United's Women Team .
Yes, thank you. I remember that, too.

I'm wondering a bit about where he qualified his response with "I have no idea about his remit on the board".

I wouldn't take Ten Hag. He will be like Donny. His football is perfect for Ajax with their type of players. Across the pond the players are diffirent, the intensity is different. Dude can hardly speak Dutch, let alone English. After the first defeat he would walk in to the press room and start talking and that will he his end right there.
Nice try, SiverpoolLupporter.
 

Redfrog

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I can't sing his praises enough, he's an awesome manager. The football under him has been breathtaking for such a big part of his tenure, that is exactly where you want to be as fan of a big club, constantly winning, challenging whilst being entertained weekly with lovely football. If you watch Ajax' performances from 18/19 in the CL, EL, almost every game they are the better side and even against the top teams, they gave them such a good run for their money at least. Have had some bad luck at times, poor refereeing and also often poor finishing, but performance wise, just fantastic stuff.

I need to make something clear however. Sure, Ajax doesnt have the quality of United or the biggest teams in the world, but these arent pub players. These players all (apart from the keeper), have very specific qualities which suits the way Ajax wants to play to a T and are purposely chosen for it. Most of them have their limitations as well but many of these players have qualities that even our star players lack.

Mazraoui is outrageous on the ball, his feeling for space, two footedness, dribbling, link-up play is masterly. He's much better than Dest who plays very well for Barcelona from time to time as a starter.

Daley Blind, outrageous on and off the ball. Is rather slow but his positioning, ability to pass a ball forwards, find players between the lines, long passes, so good.

Timber and Martinez are relatively short and Im sure would be considered far too short to be United defenders. But they have very good timing, are very agile and mobile, great on the ball when under pressure, good dribbling and also long range passing.

Alvarez is what Fred should be for us in theory but he has far bigger physical presence.

Just to name a few, the likes of Tadic, Berghuis, Antony also have outrageous qualities that are huge for Ajax' play. Especially Tadic, the level he has had since his arrival, and how many things he constantly gets right every single match, I have seen that with very few forwards/wingers in Europe the last few yeads. The quality of Ten Hag is bringing all this together, making a machine out of it and continuously developing the players and tactics.
Nice post, thanks.

Even if the players don’t totally have qualities that Ten Hag is looking for, I am sure the attack will be awesome and with the money United have, it won’t be a problem to find a few players to complement his style.

But we have to be bold for that and unfortunately, the board will probably make the wrong choice as they are incompetent and the « United way » is just a way to excuse it.

The only way there is at this club is hire a genius manager to play attacking football. It actually mad to think that United had only two successful managers in his history…
 

Adnan

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IIRC you sang some(?) of his praises a few times when people such as myself asked exactly who/what this Richard Arnold fellow was regarding concerns that he was just a Woodward clone. That he was selected by the FA, that he was absolutely a football-man, etc.
I honestly don't recall singing the praises of Richard Arnold at all. I honestly know nothing about him regards the running of a football club. I think you might be mixing Arnold up with John Murtough who has done a superb job in putting in place mechanisms which has resulted in us becoming a more modernised club when it comes to data/analytics and a scouting network that has been described by people working in the industry as being very impressive regards the personnel.. And that information I've gleaned from the site I mentioned in my previous post who have guests regularly on their podcasts who either work in the scouting/coaching/data analytics departments at top clubs.
 

hungrywing

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I honestly don't recall singing the praises of Richard Arnold at all. I honestly know nothing about him regards the running of a football club. I think you might be mixing Arnold up with John Murtough who has done a superb job in putting in place mechanisms which has resulted in us becoming a more modernised club when it comes to data/analytics and a scouting network that has been described by people working in the industry as being very impressive regards the personnel.. And that information I've gleaned from the site I mentioned in my previous post who have guests regularly on their podcasts who either work in the scouting/coaching/data analytics departments at top clubs.
The original discussion regarding Murtough stemmed from the below post.

Maybe, but things have to be looked at holistically imo. And for me this decision has to be made by the guys running the football department, because it's with those guys a potential head coach will have to work with. And John Murtough has only recently said the following "We talk to players and we talk to our coaching staff about playing fast, fluid attacking football, so when we link across all the age groups, there's a thread that runs through the football club.”
https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/john-murtough-praises-united-fans-impact

He also spoke about the investment we've made in the youth department so those guys (Murtough, Bout, Court, Lawlor and Fletcher) are best placed to make a decision on who the next head coach will be IMO. And from what Murtough is saying, ten Hag is definitely one of the candidates that fits the profile.
You switched to Arnold after that while I was still talking about Murtough in the executive position being able to go to the board yadda yadda. Hence me later posting that I was curious what you meant about his (Murtough) remit on the board since he's not on it.

Anyways, I'm wondering if someone in Murtough's position could use a fan-vote as something she/he could take to the board.

"supports: Feyenoord"

We do sing Yawn as well I suppose.
thatsthejoke.jpg
 

We need an rvn

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Big question is if our team is capable of 'Total Voetbal' and if he is adaptable. Ajax is more of an academy built around one specific philosophy, we play in a very different manner.
Total Voetbal is a thing of the 70s to be honest. The way Ajax play now is more based on build up play from the back which is heavily influenced by quick fluid passing, 1 v 1 isolations in wide areas. This is something we could easily do and have the players to do it
 

Adnan

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While absolutely a wonderful thing that Ole did there, at this point there's a strong argument that it wasn't a 'footballing' element in his development that Ole contributed to. Ole managed (ha) to steer Rashford away from the Pogba/Lingard influence.



Yes, these would be the executive-level decision-makers mentioned earlier. You're right having the appointment be 100% fan-selected is pretty zany. And assuming 'proper' football knowledge within the executive level, then fan opinion and executive opinion would largely overlap, which would make it (fan opinion) a bit redundant.

But right now, with the board being comprised of the people it's comprised of, it does seem fan opinion being reflected might help the 'football-wise' elements among the executives. Arnold, if he's as great as you've been posting, could take such a thing to the board and go, 'See, the fans are suggesting these people, too.'

Again, in an ideal world, he shouldn't be in such a position. But the board are Glazers and their friends who all have a track record of doing poorly in school and in business and who extremely likely have no idea about anything about football, so fan-opinion could help the guys running the football department (not to mention up until very recently, we had Edward frocking Woodward running the football department).
I didn't mention Arnold but you did in the quoted post, where you say the following "Arnold, if he's as great as you you've been posting"

And i'm saying to you, I've made no such claims about Richard Arnold in any of my posts.
 

wise_old_man

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I hope we are looking for options instead of "In Ole we trust. ten Hag should be at the top of the list. His team plays very good football no matter who the opponents are, they play attacking football. It was so good to watch Ajax outplaying Dortmund. Scoreline didn't even flatter them.

I hope Fletcher/Murtough had a chat with VdS.
Actually a double swoop of Ten Hag and Van Der Sar to replace both Ole and Woodward would be sweet.
 

hungrywing

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I didn't mention Arnold but you did in the quoted post, where you say the following "Arnold, if he's as great as you you've been posting"

And i'm saying to you, I've made no such claims about Richard Arnold in any of my posts.
Oh, I did.

Do you think fan input may be able to help Murtough whenever he might have to go before the board?
 

Terranova

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Aye, SreadToftly here with that NserUame.

But what's with the '(Ten Hag) can't speak Dutch' part in your earlier post?
He has a heavy local accent, so when he speaks Dutch it's really awkward to hear, because he's trying very hard to speak "normal" Dutch, so a lot of pauses and you can hear it's trying to overcompensate for his accent
 

SER19

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Pretty resounding poll. Possibly more so than a poll for other candidates
 

hungrywing

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He has a heavy local accent, so when he speaks Dutch it's really awkward to hear, because he's trying very hard to speak "normal" Dutch, so a lot of pauses and you can hear it's trying to overcompensate for his accent
Is it kind of like Bavarian German or the American 'Southern' accent (and the cultural/class stereotypes associated with it?)
 

KirkDuyt

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Aye, SreadToftly here with that NserUame.

But what's with the '(Ten Hag) can't speak Dutch' part in your earlier post?
He has a bit of trouble expressing himself. He is verbally clumsy so to speak.

I'm a bit nitpicky in that sense though. I like language and take offense to what he does to it.
 

Adnan

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Oh, I did.

Do you think fan input may be able to help Murtough whenever he might have to go before the board?
I honestly don't know but I wouldn't want fan opinion to sway footballing decisions which should be made by a group of people who work with in the footballing department imo. Neither the board or fans should meddle in the decision making/ identifying process when looking at potential Head coaches/Managers. Aligning/streamlining the recruitment process can only be done by those people who run the football structure imo.
 

sammyk123

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He's a top 5 manager in the world for me.

I know the Eredivise isn't the Premier League, but the way he's restored Ajax as the dominant force in Dutch football is very impressive. Especially considering that he's had to contend with losing his star players every summer and replacing them on a budget.

I don't see another team in Europe playing with same intensity and fluidity as this Ajax side, except possibly Bayern who have world class players in every position.
 

hungrywing

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I honestly don't know but I wouldn't want fan opinion to sway footballing decisions which should be made by a group of people who work with in the footballing department imo. Neither the board or fans should meddle in the decision making/ identifying process when looking at potential Head coaches/Managers. Aligning/streamlining the recruitment process can only be done by those people who run the football structure imo.
Again, obviosuly ideally yes. But what if a club is in a situation where a board does suppress otherwise sound footballing decisions made by those people who run the footballing structure.
 

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Maybe, maybe not. But his team plays marvellous football, watched them a few times this season and their games have been hugely enjoyable. Should have probably scored more last night too.
 

golden_blunder

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I'd also like to add that young CB, Timber (18) who did a superb job in handling Haaland, (who was clearly much stronger physically) is a young player that wouldn't start for us in the UCL because he'd be deemed not physical enough IMO.
The difference is, and we’ve spoken around this before; that’s a way of life at a team like Ajax where their ethos is to develop early and sell the valuable ones. They have to take those gambles on young players.

At United the pressure is more intense. The ethos is not develop and sell. It’s win games. It’s keep the fans quiet. No way would fans accept an 18 year old over a shiny new cb especially if he starts making mistakes
 

Adnan

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Again, obviosuly ideally yes. But what if a club is in a situation where a board does suppress otherwise sound footballing decisions.
If a board is meddling with decisions whilst having a football department then that's never a good sign imo. But I would never want fans to make that decision.
 

golden_blunder

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That's right you didnt. Relatively I'd agree, but at the same time, if Haaland scores 1 or 2 from those chances which he equally could, it's though to say Timber did a superb job on him. But he did very well, first time against a player of that calibre.
On another night Haaland would have scored 2 or 3 goals. An off night for him in terms of scoring
 

hungrywing

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If a board is meddling with decisions whilst having a football department then that's never a good sign imo. But I would never want fans to make that decision.
Again, 100% fan voted is just zany. But I'm wondering about our new 'fan-inclusion' initiative and if it might be able to help any footballing-people when they have to go to the board.
 

Adam-Utd

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A manager that improves his team and makes them play above their ability.

We haven't had that since Fergie. Whether he'd be able to make the same changes at United? who knows, but it's not like Ajax have no pressure or expectation either.
 

redshaw

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Amazing job again with the squad he has. I wouldn't have much hope in his previous stars at their new clubs in Barca, Juve and United beating Ajax this year. They're earning more money but that's about it. Makes me feel sorry for Ajax again and that some other super league is needed or maybe perhaps joining some of the leagues up on the continent.
 

GoonerBear

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Maybe Man Utd would be too big of a step up.

Now Arsenal, perhaps bringing Overmars with him, that's a move that makes sense for all parties. ;)
 

Adnan

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The difference is, and we’ve spoken around this before; that’s a way of life at a team like Ajax where their ethos is to develop early and sell the valuable ones. They have to take those gambles on young players.

At United the pressure is more intense. The ethos is not develop and sell. It’s win games. It’s keep the fans quiet. No way would fans accept an 18 year old over a shiny new cb especially if he starts making mistakes
The difference is that there's many managers who have shown to be better than others when it comes to developing youngsters whilst also competing at the top. And that's just the simple truth. I honestly have no doubt that if someone like ten Hag was our Manager then I don't believe it would be a case of giving a youngster a chance due to their age but rather due to how said young player could help in implementing a style of play which requires a level of technicality which several players in our first team fail at. So the pressure on him would be on how quickly he can implement his style of play imo which requires the team to be dominant in possession all over the pitch. And that's why I feel under him several of our first team players would be a hinderance rather than a help. De Gea I think will be gone pretty quickly if he arrives. I can't see how De Gea survives under him.

But i'd understand if we had a 1 to 11 which was top class but we don't, so I find it strange that players like Mata and a few others are still at the club.
 

AjaxCunian

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On another night Haaland would have scored 2 or 3 goals. An off night for him in terms of scoring
I think 3 is a bit rich, would expect 1 or 2 goals from him based on the chances he had. His expected goals were also between 1 and 2 coincidentally.
Nice post, thanks.

Even if the players don’t totally have qualities that Ten Hag is looking for, I am sure the attack will be awesome and with the money United have, it won’t be a problem to find a few players to complement his style.

But we have to be bold for that and unfortunately, the board will probably make the wrong choice as they are incompetent and the « United way » is just a way to excuse it.

The only way there is at this club is hire a genius manager to play attacking football. It actually mad to think that United had only two successful managers in his history…
It's just a shame, I'd say we might be the most underperforming club in the world for the resources available. Ajax one of the most overperforming clubs.
 

golden_blunder

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The difference is that there's many managers who have shown to be better than others when it comes to developing youngsters whilst also competing at the top. And that's just the simple truth. I honestly have no doubt that if someone like ten Hag was our Manager then I don't believe it would be a case of giving a youngster a chance due to their age but rather due to how said young player could help in implementing a style of play which requires a level of technicality which several players in our first team fail at. So the pressure on him would be on how quickly he can implement his style of play imo which requires the team to be dominant in possession all over the pitch. And that's why I feel under him several of our first team players would be a hinderance rather than a help. De Gea I think will be gone pretty quickly if he arrives. I can't see how De Gea survives under him.

But i'd understand if we had a 1 to 11 which was top class but we don't, so I find it strange that players like Mata and a few others are still at the club.
I agree that he’s good at developing young players, at Ajax. Whether he’d do it as freely at United with the fans expectations on his back is another matter. I genuinely don’t know how he’d fare. He might turn out to be a raving transfer muppet with more money at his disposal.

I agree re some of the squad; mata, Bailly, Dalot, one of the 2 main keepers, Martial and Pogba would have been sold/released in the summer if it were down to me. I haven’t included Jones as he wasn’t fit.
 

the chameleon

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Maybe Man Utd would be too big of a step up.

Now Arsenal, perhaps bringing Overmars with him, that's a move that makes sense for all parties. ;)
We gave the manager of Molde a chance. United could be too big of a step up for him, but I'd rather put a punt on him than put up with Ole. Ajax is after all, also a massive club.
 

Adnan

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I agree that he’s good at developing young players, at Ajax. Whether he’d do it as freely at United with the fans expectations on his back is another matter. I genuinely don’t know how he’d fare. He might turn out to be a raving transfer muppet with more money at his disposal.

I agree re some of the squad; mata, Bailly, Dalot, one of the 2 main keepers, Martial and Pogba would have been sold/released in the summer if it were down to me. I haven’t included Jones as he wasn’t fit.
I agree mate, we just don't know how things would turn out with him or any other Manager. But for me the decision to appoint ten Hag would be the correct one from a footballing pov. I also don't think he or anyone else will get a free hand again in the transfer market due to Murtough and the transfer committee being quite influential.

And what can I say about the second para, it seems someone was a little naive and decided to bloat the squad.
 

golden_blunder

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I agree mate, we just don't know how things would turn out with him or any other Manager. But for me the decision to appoint ten Hag would be the correct one from a footballing pov. I also don't think he or anyone else will get a free hand again in the transfer market due to Murtough and the transfer committee being quite influential.

And what can I say about the second para, it seems someone was a little naive and decided to bloat the squad.
Yep he’s the one that i want ahead of Conte, zidane etc who will want to rip everything up and start again.
if we could get VDS to replace woody at the same time that would be dandy
 

GoonerBear

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We gave the manager of Molde a chance. United could be too big of a step up for him, but I'd rather put a punt on him than put up with Ole. Ajax is after all, also a massive club.
My post was slightly tongue in cheek. Now that I've resigned myself that Arteta isn't working, this guy is probably at the top of my wishlist for replacements, certainly wouldn't want him to replace Ole from an Arsenal perspective. ;)

Im half way through reading the thread, & thinking that even the negatives people are talking about (a slight lack of personality, could he deal with the pressure at a mammoth club, could he handle top personalities & would the ego players respond to him), wouldn't be as much of an issue at Arsenal.

Im dreaming mind you, as our board probably won't sack Arteta.
 
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