Would you take Ten Hag at United?

Would you take Ten Hag at United?

  • Yes

    Votes: 1,547 92.3%
  • No

    Votes: 129 7.7%

  • Total voters
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Daslogisch

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feck the DNA. Klopp didn't have Liverpool DNA as well. It's not about that. The problem is, the kind of football Ajax plays, is not the football our current players are able to play. And I am not sure you can coach them into it, any time soon. You would have to sell most of them and buy new ones. Which we have neither money nor time for
Maybe you should make the time. This is where all these so called big clubs go wrong. You can see it with Barcelona as well, all these talks about sacking Koeman not realising he is doing a fantastic job with a mediocre club. So called big clubs who think they are privileged to be on the top. Barcelona now has a mediocre team and needs to realize they need 5 years to rebuild. United has a better team actually the rebuilding has already been started a few years ago on paper. The only problem is, there is no idea behind the rebuilding. Why is United still struggling? Simply because of a lack of patience. United thought they had a privilege to be on the top of the game and therefore have not had the patience to rebuild a team that clearly needed rebuilding. Moyes was a mistake, LvG was great for rebuilding but needed time (fully acknowledge that his football was boring btw, but he was on the right track in terms of rebuilding) and then from LvG's rebuilding work the switch was made to Mourinho's 'immediate success formula'.. which obviously didn't work. And now you're stuck with Ole of which no one knows what his formula is. That's why United is still struggling. There is no vision. Granted United have better players now than in the LvG and beginning of Mourinho's era, but there is no philosophy, no idea, no vision. United are just spending money and expect success will follow by default.

You mentioned Klopp and Liverpool. Klopp does have a philosophy, he developed his team by that philosophy and sought the players needed to execute that. He bought of one the many players considered a PL flop, because in this incredible league thats out of this universe only the most special players can succeed (right?). That same flopped player is now the best player in that league because this coach actually utilizes him like he should. The reason why many players flop in the PL is not because the league is so extraordenary, it's because PL clubs are just spending money without having a plan and think that's going to work. Very few players will succeed in any team, most players will only succeed when they are fitted into a team that suits their qualities. That's why Salah flopped at Chelsea and now owns the PL with Liverpool. Most players these days have specific qualities and they will only flourish when these players get a role in the team that suits those qualities.

United is one of those PL teams who just spend money because they have no philosophy and no patience. Just look at Donny van de Beek. You spent money on him and using him as a replacement for Bruno. Stevie Wonder can see that he does not at all possess the same qualities. Donny will flourish next to Bruno, if you want to get the best out of Donny you have to move Bruno to the wing (or #8) and put Donny on 10. I see many people here saying Donny can play as a #6 of #8 and he did so at Ajax. I can tell you, he can't play there. Yes, he's done so at Ajax a few times and he did reasonably well. But he played much more often as a #10 and that's where he shined. If you're gonna put him on #6 or #8 I can tell you he's always going to be underwhelming. Donny is a #10, but he's not a creative #10, he has never been. He can be creative inside the box, with neat touches, backheals and such, but he won't be dribbling past players or giving through balls all day long. He never did that at Ajax either. But link him up with smart and creative players around him and he's going to be immense, also in the out of this universe PL. But you need to utilize him in the right way. However, United do not understand these concepts. They are just buying more and more players, especially more and more big names and think that's just going to work. It won't. United need to find a board with a philosophy and a manager with a style that supports that philosophy, or else at the very least find a manager with a philosophy and then have a board who will stick with that manager and his philosophy for a long period and give that manager the tools that he needs to build a team. Building something good takes time. How much time and bad result did SAF need to turn United into a world class team?

As for Ten Hag, hopefully you will stay away from him, but he would be a great manager for United - if given time. His communication to the press is quite weak, but clearly communicating with the team is not a problem for him. He's done a fantastic job at Ajax, as well as at FC Utrecht and Go Ahead Eagles (with which he promoted after they were really struggling in the years before). His teams execute his plans very well.
 
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Daslogisch

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I don't know about that pressure. At Ajax, the expectation is that they win the league, play great football, and play youth. Every match and every season. Fail on any of that and the fans will start grumbling. (See De Boer: winning ugly is not appreciated at Ajax.) Ajax acknowledge their place in the international pecking order so they accept that they have to sell players, but it's not what they want. And as someone else pointed out, they changed their business model a few years ago so they could increase wages and hold on to players longer. So they're not just having fun, it's intensely competitive.

But of course, the Dutch league is more forgiving for players so youth stand more chance. On the other hand, those same youth are also expected to manage in the CL, where Ajax also want to be competitive (up to a point, they're realistic about it), so again, it's not all just a bit of fun without pressure or consequences.
Well said. At Ajax the pressure is the same as at United. Wins are required and 2 losses in a row are unaccaptable. Moreover, winning with playing bad football wont last long either. So in that respect you could say there are even more demands at Ajax.

Granted of course what you say about the Dutch league being more forgiving to young players. It's easier to give players a chance to learn in the Dutch League then in the PL for sure.
 
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Well said. At Ajax the pressure is the same as at United. Wins are required and 2 losses in a row are unaccaptable. Moreover, winning with playing bad football wont last long either. So in that respect you could say there are even more demands at Ajax.

Granted of course what you say about the Dutch league being more forgiving to young players. It's easier to give players a chance to learn in the Dutch League then in the PL for sure.
The pressure at United is global. Ajax is a top club and domestically they are expected to win - but it's nothing compared to the pressure Ten Hag would face at United.

Not saying he couldn't do it here, but it's daft to say the pressure at Ajax is the same as the pressure at United.
 

Spark

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Put it like this, would Ole be getting the same out of Ajax's players as ten Hag?

It's similar to Southgate for England. Swap the managers from the Euro final and I truly believe England win and win big.

Managers are fecking crucial and it's obvious we don't have one of the caliber to get the best out of our clearly good players.
 

Cheimoon

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The pressure at United is global. Ajax is a top club and domestically they are expected to win - but it's nothing compared to the pressure Ten Hag would face at United.

Not saying he couldn't do it here, but it's daft to say the pressure at Ajax is the same as the pressure at United.
What does 'global pressure' mean in a practical sense for the coach though?

I'm not saying everything is the same. United expect to go further in the CL, the EPL is faster and more physical, plus there are more matches in the League and FA cups; but otherwise...?
 
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stefan92

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What does 'global pressure' mean in a practical sense for the coach though?

I'm not saying everything is the same. United expect to go further in the CL, the EPL is faster and.more physical, plus there are more matches in the League and FA cups; but otherwise...?
Good question. I would even argue that the pressure in reality is smaller at United than at Ajax. Ajax is expected to win domestically, while United at the moment would be happy if they would just play recognisable football. Ongoing mediocrity got Ole a new contract, so where is this 'global pressure'?
 

Daslogisch

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The pressure at United is global. Ajax is a top club and domestically they are expected to win - but it's nothing compared to the pressure Ten Hag would face at United.

Not saying he couldn't do it here, but it's daft to say the pressure at Ajax is the same as the pressure at United.
It's not daft. The pressure on him would be exactly the same. It doesn't matter at all if at Ajax 5M fans expect results and at United 50M fans world wide expect results and at Ajax 2 papers expect results and in England 20 papers expect results. Do you really think that makes a difference on pressure on the coach or a player?

Ten Hag has been critized a lot in Holland, by tabloids, TV pundits, fans. He's gotten more than his share and he's stayed calm because he knows what he's doing. He can't lose 2 games at Ajax (well ok, maybe now he can) and he couldn't at United. He'll get slammed by media and fans. But Ajax have a board with philosophy and conviction and stick with a manager through a few bad results.

This is not about how a manager deals with pressure, but how the board above the manager deals with pressure. At a club like United boards members like a DoF or a chairman are the ones who panic fast and can't handle the pressure when the results are underwhelming for a while. Most of these board members don't have a philosophy or the balls to stick to it when temperature heats. That's where the extra pressure is, not so much from the fact that United or any of these 'global clubs' would have more expectations globally. That's totally irrelevant IMO.
 
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What does 'global pressure' mean in a practical sense for the coach though?

I'm not saying everything is the same. United expect to go further in the CL, the EPL is faster and.more physical, plus there are more matches in the League and FA cups; but otherwise...?
Look if you think the level of pressure at Ajax is the same as at United then fine - we're not going to agree on that, ever.

But also, it's not something I feel the need to 'debate' anyone about, I'm past getting too bogged down in that on redcafe because what ever the topic people have their view and don't change, regardless what others say.
 

altodevil

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Ajax are expected to win the league every year, win every game in their league just about. That's more pressure than having to tread water with the top 4 or 6 in the premier league. Doesn't matter about global appeal. Champions League is a different beast though.
 

adexkola

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What does 'global pressure' mean in a practical sense for the coach though?

I'm not saying everything is the same. United expect to go further in the CL, the EPL is faster and.more physical, plus there are more matches in the League and FA cups; but otherwise...?
It's nonsense honestly.
 

Terranova

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What does 'global pressure' mean in a practical sense for the coach though?

I'm not saying everything is the same. United expect to go further in the CL, the EPL is faster and.more physical, plus there are more matches in the League and FA cups; but otherwise...?
Even the CL expectations don't result in higher pressure. Surviving the group stage with a weaker team is pretty much equal to having to reach the quarterfinals with a team like United in terms of pressure.
It all depends on the quality of the team. Trying to avoid relegation with United provides a lot less pressure than with Norwich.
 

Cheimoon

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Look if you think the level of pressure at Ajax is the same as at United then fine - we're not going to agree on that, ever.

But also, it's not something I feel the need to 'debate' anyone about, I'm past getting too bogged down in that on redcafe because what ever the topic people have their view and don't change, regardless what others say.
It's a real question though: what does it mean in a practical sense for a coach that the pressure at United is global? How do you think that this manifests itself for a coach, in a way that's different from what he would experience at a club like Ajax?

I'm happy to be proven wrong in my opinions, but I'd need arguments. Right now, you're backing out the moment I question your comment. That's not helpful.
 

RooneyLegend

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We have hoards of players who are underperforming and here we have a coach who gets amazing performances put of the likes of Haller and Tadic who no one would have thought to sign. Ask yourself what could he do with some of the players we have? He's our guy, been saying it for eons, it's great that so many have joined the bandwagon.
 

NoLogo

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feck the DNA. Klopp didn't have Liverpool DNA as well. It's not about that. The problem is, the kind of football Ajax plays, is not the football our current players are able to play. And I am not sure you can coach them into it, any time soon. You would have to sell most of them and buy new ones. Which we have neither money nor time for
Not sure about that though. Tuchel didn't buy that many new players and got Chelsea playing his style of football after only a couple of weeks. Good coaches can do that to pretty much any team. I'm not quite sure where I read it but someone wrote that Tuchel got his team playing the way he does because he has managed small teams before and knows pretty much how to get the football he wants from pretty much any player and I think there is a lot of truth to that.

Ten Haag I feel fits the same mold. Of course his players at Ajax aren't shit but a lot them are young and they have pretty much no world class players at all in their lineup. If any problem could be arising than it's that he might not know how to handle stars like Pogba and Ronaldo and might have problems of getting them aboard but I really don't see the lack of quality in some areas of the pitch as a major obstacle for him.
 
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feck the DNA. Klopp didn't have Liverpool DNA as well. It's not about that. The problem is, the kind of football Ajax plays, is not the football our current players are able to play. And I am not sure you can coach them into it, any time soon. You would have to sell most of them and buy new ones. Which we have neither money nor time for
DVB can obviously play it, Sancho can obviously play it. Maguire, Varane & Shaw clearly can, Cavani clearly can. Greewood's an incredible mouldable young super talent.

That's at least 7 of a starting eleven for us, an entire front line and pretty much the entire back four. So what's the difference from now? The midfield that everyone is slating regardless of manager and tactics?

Even then we're gonna have to pretend some of the other incredibly talented lads like Bruno simply can't do it, or that a goalscorer like Ronaldo won't be handy as feck for any manager. The Bruno one is as daft as as suggesting KDB was gonna struggle for Pep.

In short, of course top players can be coached to play a more defined tactic.
 

goptun

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It's a real question though: what does it mean in a practical sense for a coach that the pressure at United is global? How do you think that this manifests itself for a coach, in a way that's different from what he would experience at a club like Ajax?

I'm happy to be proven wrong in my opinions, but I'd need arguments. Right now, you're backing out the moment I question your comment. That's not helpful.
There is merit to the argument that playing for, or managing in this instance, a team like Man Utd comes with much more psychological pressure than a team like Ajax. The same can be said for Barcelona, Real Madrid, and to a slightly lesser extent Bayern Munich. These teams are generally a much more volatile environment with an all-encompassing global reach. In a similar vein, the pressure and expectation of performing in the World Cup final is different too, say, a regular domestic league game. It's the exact same game of football and regular grassy pitch, except it's not. Pressure is all about perception and with clubs as unfathomably large as the likes of Barca, Real Madrid, and Man United, this ability to cope with and understand the root of pressure, which is in effect evaluating and being able to overcome the fear of the 'unknown', is much harder than at smaller clubs.
 
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Rash Decision

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There’s a bit of circular logic to the argument that our squad would be unable to adapt to his (or any other progressive manager’s) approach. We feel this way because under Solskjaer and Mourinho, they weren’t coached in such a way. Under Solskjaer especially there doesn’t appear to be much tactical discipline offensively, so we tend to project his approach on to the individuals who comprise our offense.

However I suspect that the rampant individualism which characterizes players such as Bruno and Rashford is, at this stage, holding them (and us) back, and a more well-defined attacking approach might be exactly what they need to develop further. Both are obviously extremely talented, but I think they could really benefit from a more hands-on and disciplined regime in order to iron out the frustrating elements that remain in their game.
Rashford broke out under LVG’s rigid system so I’d say there’s a good chance he can adapt and thrive too. And fans have been complaining about his decision making; I’d say a more disciplined regime would help him a lot in that regard.
 

Pronewbie

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Rashford broke out under LVG’s rigid system so I’d say there’s a good chance he can adapt and thrive too. And fans have been complaining about his decision making; I’d say a more disciplined regime would help him a lot in that regard.
The whole team would IMO. Nothing too dogmatic and rigid, mind.
 

Cheimoon

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There is merit to the argument that playing for, or managing in this instance, a team like Man Utd comes with much more psychological pressure than a team like Ajax. The same can be said for Barcelona, Real Madrid, and to a slightly lesser extent Bayern Munich. These teams are generally a much more volatile environment with an all-encompassing global reach. In a similar vein, the pressure and expectation of performing in the World Cup final is different too, say, a regular domestic league game. It's the exact same game of football and regular grassy pitch, except it's not. Pressure is all about perception and with clubs as unfathomably large as the likes of Barca, Real Madrid, and Man United, this ability to cope with and understand the root of pressure, which is in effect evaluating and being able to overcome the fear of the 'unknown', is much harder than at smaller clubs.
I take those points, but I am still wondering how that expresses itself in practice for a coach. Stadium dynamics are similar (Ajax have a big stadium themselves), press conferences will be similar (apart from differences in journalistic culture), training sessions are secluded frm the public and hence similar - what does a coach actually experience of that global environment? Obviously, United do have a global dimension that Ajax lack, I am not disputing that. But except if the coach is intentionally scouring international social and traditional media for fan and pundit opinions, how will they be aware of that dimension on a day-to-day basis, or even a month-to-month basis?

Also, United as a club is clearly not a very volatile environment. Or at least, from what I'm observing with Ole, the club works very hard to appear calm, and they might do similarly internally to shield Ole from distractions. That's probably different, for example, at Chelsea beacuse of their impatience, at Bayern because of player power (see Ancelotti and Kovac), or at Barcelona due to all of its internal politics (which Ajax also had its share of until a few years ago; all is calm now on that front for them) - but I'm not seeing it at United.

To clarify, I totally get how there is less pressure at a club like Leicester or Everton, which are happy to just finish nicely in the subtop; or even at PSV in the Netherlands, which aim to win but not with the same burning fire as Ajax (from what I can tell). Ajax, however, really have this all-consuming arrogance of having to be the best at everything at all times. (Which is probably why I dislike Ajax but like PSV.) And I think that's what a coach notices in his work, more than the size of the fanbase.

But I'm a very practically-minded person, so maybe I'm missing a valid philosophical dimension. Or another practical argument, of course. :)

Btw, I do agree that Ten Hag (or any coach like him) would likely be nervous at first if he were to join United. It would be a step up to a bigger club in a new league - a new place where he has to prove himself anew all over again. And that might get worse if he would be starting off with a string of bad results. Is that what is meant? I think that pressure would be similar to Ten Hag's move from Utrecht (where finishing subtop is a great achievement) to Ajax (where they have no patience with even a bad start). So nothing he hasn't experienced.
 

LARulz

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reelworld

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There’s a bit of circular logic to the argument that our squad would be unable to adapt to his (or any other progressive manager’s) approach. We feel this way because under Solskjaer and Mourinho, they weren’t coached in such a way. Under Solskjaer especially there doesn’t appear to be much tactical discipline offensively, so we tend to project his approach on to the individuals who comprise our offense.

However I suspect that the rampant individualism which characterizes players such as Bruno and Rashford is, at this stage, holding them (and us) back, and a more well-defined attacking approach might be exactly what they need to develop further. Both are obviously extremely talented, but I think they could really benefit from a more hands-on and disciplined regime in order to iron out the frustrating elements that remain in their game.
Also, I think there's an argument to be made that our so called lesser players in midfield and defense would also benefit more in a well defined attacking and defensive approach.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Well said. At Ajax the pressure is the same as at United. Wins are required and 2 losses in a row are unaccaptable. Moreover, winning with playing bad football wont last long either. So in that respect you could say there are even more demands at Ajax.

Granted of course what you say about the Dutch league being more forgiving to young players. It's easier to give players a chance to learn in the Dutch League then in the PL for sure.

:lol: No. Ajax's demand are not more than Man United mate. You are trying to punch it above the ceiling there. Ajax's pressure is not comparable to United, United are so much more global and the pressure will be coming from the whole world. But when a manager can win trophies with different kind of players and even able to beat the top clubs in UCL then that manager is ready to take it step up to big club.
 

AjaxCunian

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:lol: No. Ajax's demand are not more than Man United mate. You are trying to punch it above the ceiling there. Ajax's pressure is not comparable to United, United are so much more global and the pressure will be coming from the whole world. But when a manager can win trophies with different kind of players and even able to beat the top clubs in UCL then that manager is ready to take it step up to big club.
Other hand Ole has been mediocre for nearly 3 years and up until a few weeks ago many were still singing his praises. That is unimagimable at Ajax.
 

Henrik Larsson

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Gian Piero Gasperini got the better of Erik Ten Hag last year in the CL group phase. His team is 0-2 up against United right now, showing it again. Man's doing one hell of a job at Atalanta Bergamo since 2016.

Sorry my fellow delusional caftards, but Ten Hag is yesterday's news and gets the No vote. Clearly Gasperini is the guy we should sign.
 

lsd

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Yes let's gamble yet again this time on a 51yr Dutch Eddie Howe :rolleyes:
 

Sviken

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Kidnap him, blindfold him, get him on a plane. I don't care. Whatever needs to be done for him to sign the contract.
 

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Gian Piero Gasperini got the better of Erik Ten Hag last year in the CL group phase. His team is 0-2 up against United right now, showing it again. Man's doing one hell of a job at Atalanta Bergamo since 2016.

Sorry my fellow delusional caftards, but Ten Hag is yesterday's news and gets the No vote. Clearly Gasperini is the guy we should sign.
TBF it's been looking like any of the seven thousand plus students currently one week into their Continental Z License course would comprehensively dismantle us.
 

Jaxa

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Ten-Haag might be attainable in the summer but who do you get for the next 6 months in between ?
 

Winrar

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I've just seen his name float around in the forum so I didn't think too much of it, but having seen Ajax dismantle Dortmund yesterday has me winning him over.
 

Caesar2290

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Yes let's gamble yet again this time on a 51yr Dutch Eddie Howe :rolleyes:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

This Eddie Howe played Real and Juventus of the park with a much inferior team. He missed out on the CL final by the last kick of the game.

Last night he played off the park and kept a clean sheet against Borussia Dortmund side with Halaand in it who can't stop scoring.

But sure, Eddie Howe it is.

Ten-Haag might be attainable in the summer but who do you get for the next 6 months in between ?
Blanc
 
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