Pull a page from hockey and add a time out box
Edit: reading through the rest of the thread since reading your post and responding and I see some others have said similar
Would you want to see harsher punishment for stopping counter attacks?
- Thread starter Josep Dowling
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Edit: reading through the rest of the thread since reading your post and responding and I see some others have said similar
Rugby works in phases of play, football doesn't, it would ruin the game IMO. You cant seriously watch rugby and football and see any similarity.
Sin bins would be awful.
Again hockey works in phases of play, football doesn't. Stop trying to bastardise the game.Pull a page from hockey and add a time out box
Edit: reading through the rest of the thread since reading your post and responding and I see some others have said similar
I'm not sure how that has any relation to sin bins whatsoever? We're talking about removing a player for a period of time for some offences which are being used to stop scoring positions where they currently get away with it. Not stopping the game more, changing the rules or anything like that.
At first I was just kidding… but after this response, I’m switching over to being serious. I’m gonna start lighting a candle down at the local parish in hopes that it happens.
Field hockey doesn't, and it has sin bins
After a certain number of fouls, any player who commited the next one shoud be booked. Example: You can commit 05 fouls each half. After that is minimum yellow.
I for one certainly would. I think Ferguson would never have let the refs get away with it. Managers like Pep and Klopp systematically stop counter attacks. They have to because of their high press. If refs had given yellows for those offenses like they should, then those teams would have to re-think their approach.
Okay, now I'm curious: what do you mean by "phases of play"? Are you talking about NHL hockey or field hockey? I can't see much similarity between rugby and NHL hockey. NFL, maybe?
Herrera wrestled someone to the ground on the counter, correctly got a yellow, and minutes later assisted Martial's winner (FA Cup semis vs Everton)
Don't think this thread would have gained any traction at that moment.
Don't think this thread would have gained any traction at that moment.
What the hell, don’t bring in sin bins, leave football alone.
What Chiellini did is called a horse collar tackle and is penalty in American football. The nfl banned it in the mid 00s after it resulted in numerous injuries and college football followed a couple of years later. It’s dangerous. How that can be only a yellow in football is beyond me.
/thread
Just more consistency would go a long way to helping this issue. Also, if a team is persistently fouling, start carding players and not letting the game devolve in to a kicking match.
I think they just need to be harder on it, so many times it happens and there is no yellow produced, because it's early in the game, early in the half, w/e. Yellow card every time, start rolling out double yellows and teams will stop, there was a classic game a year or so ago where City had about 3 or 4 fouls to break West Ham counters early in a game and got zero yellows for it. I think at half time the reading was 9 fouls to one and City got zero yellows for it, then first foul in the second half was a Hammers foul and the ref produced a yellow, this is just generally poor refereeing.
Or alternatively I feel the ref should be able to pull the captain over if he lets one slide and say to him tell the team 'no more, or I am showing a card, doesn't matter if it is a different player you have been warned.'
Or alternatively I feel the ref should be able to pull the captain over if he lets one slide and say to him tell the team 'no more, or I am showing a card, doesn't matter if it is a different player you have been warned.'
In basketball each player is allowed 5 "personal fouls" per game - after 5 fouls they "foul out" and that is the end of their involvement in the game. That player can, however, be replaced by another to bring the on-court team back up to 5.
The VAR could easily tabulate the offences and notify the on-field ref when the limit is reached. Football could decide whether or not a replacement would be allowed.
The VAR could easily tabulate the offences and notify the on-field ref when the limit is reached. Football could decide whether or not a replacement would be allowed.
Yellow card and kick on with the defending team players all behind the ball, so the offensive team has the advantage to score.
A red card is too harsh but a yellow card is too lenient. It's basically a one time get out of jail free card to stop a counter attack at any point of the game. With 10 outfield players and possibly more with subs that's potential to stop 10 counterattacks in one game. The least they could do is to make tactical fouls guaranteed yellows at the minimum.
I've never seen a shirt pull like that before, where he's grabbed the collar and yanked the player down around his neck. Most shirt pulls are at the side of the shirt or the lower material so it was an odd one.
If I did that same foul in Sunday league I would be surprised to receive a red. If I was on the England team I would have made sure to return the favour to Chiellini.
If I did that same foul in Sunday league I would be surprised to receive a red. If I was on the England team I would have made sure to return the favour to Chiellini.
Sin bin.
Asked for it for absolutely years. It'd revolutionise football and force the likes of Pep to think again, which would be great for the game. The Italy England incident is the perfect example of the huge unfair and unsporting advantage a simple yellow gives.
Does Chiellini make that challenge if he knows his side will have to play the next 10 minutes a man down? It's an important decision and rightfully hands the advantage back to the attacking team. Right now the advantage is massively in favour of the defending/fouling side, allow a dangerous attack, or simply take a yellow? It's an absolute no brainer.
Asked for it for absolutely years. It'd revolutionise football and force the likes of Pep to think again, which would be great for the game. The Italy England incident is the perfect example of the huge unfair and unsporting advantage a simple yellow gives.
Does Chiellini make that challenge if he knows his side will have to play the next 10 minutes a man down? It's an important decision and rightfully hands the advantage back to the attacking team. Right now the advantage is massively in favour of the defending/fouling side, allow a dangerous attack, or simply take a yellow? It's an absolute no brainer.
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If someone commits a professional foul and denies a clear goal scoring opportunity but isn't the last man so it can't be issued a red. Then VAR/Ref should award a penalty that would kill the types of cynical fouls City and Liverpool make regularly overnight.
Hit them in the only place it hurts. Their pocket.
Okay give them a yellow for this offence which as we know has on field consequences and a second yellow & red if they do it again but also brandish a 'pink card' (or whatever colour) on every occasion one of these fouls occur,
(The 'pink card' is an instant £10k fine & can be administered as many times as required per player for the duration of the game.)
It wouldn't feckin happen then
Okay give them a yellow for this offence which as we know has on field consequences and a second yellow & red if they do it again but also brandish a 'pink card' (or whatever colour) on every occasion one of these fouls occur,
(The 'pink card' is an instant £10k fine & can be administered as many times as required per player for the duration of the game.)
It wouldn't feckin happen then
Execution in the center half after the 90 minute whistle.
They are 2 different approaches to obtain the same means. One’s a shirt pull/grab to stop a counter/build up/scoring opportunity (whatever you want to call it), the others a kick and not a viscous one at that.You think a shirt pull is worse than a kick to the chops??
Rooney could have easily done what’s normalized now as he was at such a close distance to the player. Maybe he just never did those types of fouls so simply threw a foot out. The means are different but almost identical results in what the purpose was to achieve.
…one could make the argument being yanked down from behind is more dangerous than having your feet taken out from behind you. A) being thrown back as all your momentum is going forward causes whiplash. A lot of the falls aren’t pleasant as the legs are ahead of the upper body which is being held back all while in midair. The player has to come back to ground being airborne and that’s usually a fall in which the head one way or another ricochets as the body hits the ground. & head ricocheting/whiplash leads to concussions where as on the flip side, B) kicking a players foot you at least allow them to fall with their momentum. Yes all kicks vary and some are more brutal than others but in the case of Rooney’s, there wasn’t a whole lot of malice behind it other than to stop said player from advancing as is done today with “tactical fouls”.
yea Rooney’s kick looks worse at first sight but when you give it a second thought, a case can easily be made that yanking someone back offers a lot more harm to the players (ex: the foul on Saka). It sucks that it’s been deemed acceptable and normalized mostly as a result of Pep’s tactics. Not speaking specifically to the Euro finals match but in general, there really should be more consequences for some of the tactical fouls which I doubt will happen anytime soon. To the naked eye they don’t look that dangerous (which they most definitely are) but if the end result is the same with a lesser punishment from the refs, it shows it’s a broken system in of itself.
I think they'd take the 10 grand fine. What's that to us? 30-50 quid?
Orange card, substitution reduction.
If there were harsher penalties for stopping transitions of play then City would have alot of players send off. Masters of tactical fouling.
The Saka incident was dangerous imo simply due to it being around his neck. Which should have been a red.
I agree consistency is the issue with tactical fouling. It should be called cynical fouling and have a punishment attached to it, a yellow. Dangerous and it's red.
That said I think it should work the other way around as well. Too many defenders fall over when in certain positions and get a cheap freekick as it's a given that they have been fouled. When they haven't. The forward is always penalized.
That said forwards winning certain freekicks is wrong. I'm thinking Kane here who leans back into players, falls over and grabs the back of his calf.
The Grealish foul isn't straight forward either for me. Some folk saying should be a red. I wasn't so sure. But generally I think if a player has a heavy touch on a ball and then goes in with a slide etc with an opposition player coming in then it's not automatically the opposition player at fault. Bit harder this one.
I agree consistency is the issue with tactical fouling. It should be called cynical fouling and have a punishment attached to it, a yellow. Dangerous and it's red.
That said I think it should work the other way around as well. Too many defenders fall over when in certain positions and get a cheap freekick as it's a given that they have been fouled. When they haven't. The forward is always penalized.
That said forwards winning certain freekicks is wrong. I'm thinking Kane here who leans back into players, falls over and grabs the back of his calf.
The Grealish foul isn't straight forward either for me. Some folk saying should be a red. I wasn't so sure. But generally I think if a player has a heavy touch on a ball and then goes in with a slide etc with an opposition player coming in then it's not automatically the opposition player at fault. Bit harder this one.
I think that this gets forgotten. Regardless that it was "only a shirt tug", it was around his throat and was dangerous/violent conduct, much moreso than the Grealish challenge.
There are some cynical challenges that, because they are going for the player and not the ball, are far more dangerous, simply because the full force of the defender is being put onto the attacker.
Yeah I get your point of the reward exceeding the punishment. Ideally you'd have rules finely tailored to eliminate any arbitrage opportunities but that would run afoul of the "keep it simple stupid" crowd who want rules kept as simple as possible.
I think a yellow is totally fine, but I feel some refs aren't really consequent enough in dishing those out if such a foul occurs. I think it's worst in the PL tbh because a lot of refs in this league will only brandish a yellow card if it's a rough foul, so a body check or holding a player often doesn't end with a yellow card despite it being a tactical foul. I feel like the PL refs need to learn to differentiate better in this regard.
Okay make it...... "ONE MILLION DOLLARS!!!!!"
Yes. Stopping counter attacks deprives the spectators the entertainment they paid good money to see. Football is supposed to be entertaining. Not this boring negative shit because winning at all costs is more important.
Tactical fouling is a scourge on football and all who enjoy it.
Tactical fouling is a scourge on football and all who enjoy it.
I totally agree, was going to name those teams too as they do so much of it. It annoys me when I hear pundits and commentators saying things liek thats a good foul, should be no such thing.
For me these fouls should be instant yellow cards everytime, no warnings or totting up. When a player is making no attempt to make a tackle but take a player out, for me it doesn thave to be a reckless or dangerous tackle, it should be yellow.
It has to be doen the right way though as of course football has changed a lot over the last 20years and for me, the physical element and art of strong tackling has been lost. I wouldnt like changes that change this even further.
My main gripes are 1) these professional fouls being part of the game 2) Players just looking for physical contact to go down and I dont mean looking to get fouled like it coud olbe argue Grealish does, I mean literally touching bodies or leaning on and they fall down, its embarrassing at times frankly in the modern game
The Chielli foul on Saka wasn't a red card offense, but he deserved a harsher punishment -- which doesn't exist today -- than a yellow card being waved at him.
A sin bin is the right answer. But which offenses and for how long, I don't know. For Chiellini, 15 minutes off the pitch seems about right to me. A yellow card and 15 minutes, that is.
A sin bin is the right answer. But which offenses and for how long, I don't know. For Chiellini, 15 minutes off the pitch seems about right to me. A yellow card and 15 minutes, that is.
Problem is they don't give yellows out until about the 4th offense
Yes I've said this plenty of times but it's the single worst thing about the modern game, and it's a tactic that Pep and Klopp have exploited to get their teams to the top. Both managers know that they can press super high up the pitch and gain constant territory over their opponents without fear of getting exposed on the break as long as their players are smart enough to foul in the oppositions half to break a move up, where refs won't think about giving cards that otherwise would be given if the foul was committed closer to their own box. In reality, it's not hard to dominate games and opposition with enough quality players if you don't have to worry about being exposed defensively, and this tactic makes that possible because it then causes teams to have to resort to long balls as their only form of counter, which can be easily dealt with by CB's who are athletic enough.
I think the existing rules for stopping counter attacks are fine.
But I'd like to see red cards for diving. The player who dives, and then asks for a penalty, knows very well that there was no contact. It is not a single "mistake", it is a conscious and persistent effort to cheat. That should be a red.
But I'd like to see red cards for diving. The player who dives, and then asks for a penalty, knows very well that there was no contact. It is not a single "mistake", it is a conscious and persistent effort to cheat. That should be a red.
Completely disagree, there's nothing exciting about watching some pressing match with a million unpunished fouls. Punishing these fouls regularly would allow for more space across the pitch and a more open game since teams like Liverpool wouldn't be able to manic press and go all out trying to win the ball back without fear of punishment.
There's a reason that football in that past 10 years looks much different than it did in the 2000's and before. Yes tactics and players have evolved and managers are smarter, but the popularity of the press/tactical foul has created a game that isn't near as pleasing to watch imo. Teams should approach pressing high as a risky endeavor that can reward those who go about it sharply and smartly (we actually do this a decent amount imo), instead of it being viewed as some fail safe tactic that can be exploited by hacking anyone down that manages to play a few clever passes to open a side up.