Wout Weghorst - Manchester United Player (on loan)

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rollingstoned1

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Yea people mentioned that he doesn't look as aerially dominant as you would expect for his height and that was what stood out most to me too especially against Arsenal, much to my dismay. Crouch himself was not as good in the air as you would expect for his height.
 

kthanksbye

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It's not new club nerves unfortunately.

Not aimed at you, but I'm find it weird people seem surprised that the 30 year old striker who got relegated scoring 2 goals for Burnley, was currently playing for Besiktas and has a record of 1 in 3 in the Dutch leagues isn't that good.

I like his attitude and I can see he ticks a lot of the boxes that ETH want's in a striker but this guy was never going to be a big hit for us. Hopefully he can paper over some cracks in the squad and we buy somebody good in the summer.
Yes. He's performing exactly like I expected him to. He's not technically gifted, not quick, needs time and space to execute a shot or a pass. The only thing that's working for him is that he'll be available for selection more than Martial would be, and hopefully he can win a few headers, because he's not necessarily impressed me with his aerial ability either.
He might be pressing well, but that's not enough.
 

simplyared

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Fact is last two games with him in as CF we have created less in final 3rd than the games before when we were on such a good run. Also because Antony is not delivering then we are one man team up front with Rashford the only real threat we have. We cant challenge for top places having to depend on one player, or flashes of brilliance from Bruno. Weghorst is proving a blip in Ten Hag's strategy for what's best for the club. Obviously a panic measure to fill the ongoing gaping hole up front.
 

Adam-Utd

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Yea people mentioned that he doesn't look as aerially dominant as you would expect for his height and that was what stood out most to me too especially against Arsenal, much to my dismay. Crouch himself was not as good in the air as you would expect for his height.
If people have learned anything from Martinez (I doubt it lols) heading is not purely about height. It's about timing, positioning and aggression.

Weghorst is fine in the air but you simply cannot win every header when 2v1 against other big defenders. The ball needs to be played to him to give him a fair chance.

Whenever the ball was played into his feet or chest he held it very well - of course wild long balls he wasn't always favourite for.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Fact is last two games with him in as CF we have created less in final 3rd than the games before when we were on such a good run. Also because Antony is not delivering then we are one man team up front with Rashford the only real threat we have. We cant challenge for top places having to depend on one player, or flashes of brilliance from Bruno. Weghorst is proving a blip in Ten Hag's strategy for what's best for the club. Obviously a panic measure to fill the ongoing gaping hole up front.
That’s because both of these games were away from home, where we’ve struggled for goals all season (GD = -5). And one of them was against the team that’s conceded the second fewest goals in the league. Plus we still scored 3 goals in the two games he featured.
 
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InfiniteBoredom

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The fans do it everytime, big up potential signings to no end and ending up tearing them apart when they don’t meet that misplaced expectation.

You have to feel for him, it’s not his fault that he’s a rather average journeyman striker who spent all of his career to date at clubs nowhere near the size of Utd, and here he is being eviscerated by things outside of his control.
 

Smores

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Yea people mentioned that he doesn't look as aerially dominant as you would expect for his height and that was what stood out most to me too especially against Arsenal, much to my dismay. Crouch himself was not as good in the air as you would expect for his height.
Not really sure where this idea that Crouch wasn't great in the air has come from. He was routinely near the top of aerial balls won.

I think people just have crazy expectations of tall players. They expect every ball into the box is going to be a goal but in general headers are a low percentage way to score. Positioning Is often more important than height so unless you're putting in a crazy accurate ball then its still very difficult.
 

sammyhol

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A Manchester United striker who is not expected to score goals, but contribute in holdup play instead.

Is this an episode of Black Mirror?
France recently won the World Cup with their striker barely scoring a goal, with his role being focused on back to goal link up play.

Liverpool have recently won a league and CL with a number 9 contributing far fewer goals than their wide players, with his role being centred around back to goal hold up and link up play.

City have just moved from a false 9 link up focused role having won the 4 PL’s in 5 years, to an out and out goal scoring ST and are currently 5 points off the top having played a game more than the leaders.

Now I’m not saying Wout is gonna be the difference maker, or is even the elite quality that we should be aiming for… but this whole “a number 9s only job is scoring goals” argument is absolute rubbish.
 

Lee565

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Am I the only that thinks he brings the same old issue we had when ronaldo was here in regards to stunting our attacking play? Martial is definitely not the answer and should be sold off in the summer but we clearly look better in attack with him than weghorst, I would take ighalo over him tbh
 

Bepi

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I think you are too harsh on him… this is his level and obviously he is neither prime Ibrahimovic / Cavani nor Morata (to cite a name you all despise in spite of being however very good). He is a January patch and needs support.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Am I the only that thinks he brings the same old issue we had when ronaldo was here in regards to stunting our attacking play? Martial is definitely not the answer and should be sold off in the summer but we clearly look better in attack with him than weghorst, I would take ighalo over him tbh
Probably. Because the way he plays the game (based on what we’ve seen so far) could not be more different to what we saw from Ronaldo.

This whole thread is nuts anyway. He’s played in two fecking games. Both away fixtures. One of them against the best team in the league. And he played better against Arsenal than he did against Palace (despite it being a much tougher game) so is trending in the right direction. Maybe we should give the bloke a few more games before deciding that he’s shit, worse than Ighalo and/or causing us the same problems that Ronaldo did?
 

justsomebloke

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Probably. Because the way he plays the game (based on what we’ve seen so far) could not be more different to what we saw from Ronaldo.

This whole thread is nuts anyway. He’s played in two fecking games. Both away fixtures. One of them against the best team in the league. And he played better against Arsenal than he did against Palace (despite it being a much tougher game) so is trending in the right direction. Maybe we should give the bloke a few more games before deciding that he’s shit, worse than Ighalo and/or causing us the same problems that Ronaldo did?
Absolutely. But it's still possible to talk about what he did in his first two games, as long as it's understood that's not going to be any final answer.
 

justsomebloke

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If people have learned anything from Martinez (I doubt it lols) heading is not purely about height. It's about timing, positioning and aggression.

Weghorst is fine in the air but you simply cannot win every header when 2v1 against other big defenders. The ball needs to be played to him to give him a fair chance.

Whenever the ball was played into his feet or chest he held it very well - of course wild long balls he wasn't always favourite for.
In his first two games, he's won 22% of his aerial duels. Only one player in the squad has a worse %. Hopefully that'll pick up a bit.
 

Pogue Mahone

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In his first two games, he's won 22% of his aerial duels. Only one player in the squad has a worse %. Hopefully that'll pick up a bit.
If it’s going to pick up he’ll need better service. Trying to compete with big centre backs for hoofs out of our defence is always going to end up with a poor % of aerial duels won. And even if he isn’t great at winning duels I suspect he will at least compete in a lot more of them than our other options up top. The best way to avoid having a low % is to not compete at all…
 

Adam-Utd

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In his first two games, he's won 22% of his aerial duels. Only one player in the squad has a worse %. Hopefully that'll pick up a bit.
I'd say that's more due to him throwing himself around a lot, trying to disrupt defenders and win balls he's not a favourite for.

Stats are useless without context, but I don't remember seeing him lose many "duels" that he should have been winning.

I remember a certain fan used to use the same arguement for Maguire/Lindelof. Lindelof at times used to have a higher duel % but anybody with eyes could see that didn't mean he's better aerially etc. He'd just only duel for headers he knew he'd win, otherwise he'd back off. That's quite a misleading stat.

Anyway, he's pressuring and winning lots of balls on the ground so that's a nice plus. I personally think he's started pretty well, even Neville said in the first half Weghorst was playing well.
 

justsomebloke

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I'd say that's more due to him throwing himself around a lot, trying to disrupt defenders and win balls he's not a favourite for.

Stats are useless without context, but I don't remember seeing him lose many "duels" that he should have been winning.

I remember a certain fan used to use the same arguement for Maguire/Lindelof. Lindelof at times used to have a higher duel % but anybody with eyes could see that didn't mean he's better aerially etc. He'd just only duel for headers he knew he'd win, otherwise he'd back off. That's quite a misleading stat.

Anyway, he's pressuring and winning lots of balls on the ground so that's a nice plus. I personally think he's started pretty well, even Neville said in the first half Weghorst was playing well.
All true. Statistically in his first two games, he had 5 aerial duels per 90 (more than anyone else in the squad, based on a quick scan of the whole season figures), and lost four of them. His best areas statistically (among those I've checked) seems to be interceptions and fouls drawn. His worst are live ball passes and touches, in addition to aerial win %. And some where he has literally zero: Successful dribbles, Passes into the 18-yard box:, Passes into the attacking third and Progressive passes.

All in all, I think some positives, but so far too little overall imprint and presence. But, there is every reason to believe that will improve. He's hardly trained with the team yet, after all.
 

simplyared

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That’s because both of these games were away from home, where we’ve struggled for goals all season (GD = -5). And one of them was against the team that’s conceded the second fewest goals in the league. Plus we still scored 3 goals in the two games he featured.
You're obviously prepared to give the player more slack, which I respect. However if we're to use stats to value the player then his time at Burnley certainly was not impressive. Also another important factor for me personally is based on what I'm seeing. Which has no bearing on the who the opposition is.
 

Adam-Utd

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You're obviously prepared to give the player more slack, which I respect. However if we're to use stats to value the player then his time at Burnley certainly was not impressive. Also another important factor for me personally is based on what I'm seeing. Which has no bearing on the who the opposition is.
Using a Burnley side that got relegated as a stick to beat him with is just silly tbh.

United have created just 1 chance for him so far (the header against Palace) he's quite clearly being asked to play in a way that sacrifices his own output in a way to feed Rashford.

As long as he keeps working hard, holds up the ball well and gets on the end of a few crosses when they come in, i'm happy with that.

He was never going to be a 30 goal striker and i'm not sure what some are expecting.
 

Maticmaker

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To get the best from such as this guy we need to play certain way and generally we don't.

We need old fashioned wingers to get down to the bye-line and cross high 'out-swingers' that Wout can run on to and compete for in the space around the penalty spot...to the six yard line, and we need direct punts out from DeGea for Wout to compete for, down the middle, with one or two players assigned around him to compete for winning the knock downs, or second balls.

We don't do this and have not done so for a while, think the last time was when we played Fulham when David Moyes was in charge, and we put over 70 odd crosses or something ridiculous like that with only average sized strikers!

Therefore Wout Weghorst has to become the central 'wall' player who takes and then knocks back one-twos with others to take us up the pitch.
 

Matt851

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All true. Statistically in his first two games, he had 5 aerial duels per 90 (more than anyone else in the squad, based on a quick scan of the whole season figures), and lost four of them. His best areas statistically (among those I've checked) seems to be interceptions and fouls drawn. His worst are live ball passes and touches, in addition to aerial win %. And some where he has literally zero: Successful dribbles, Passes into the 18-yard box:, Passes into the attacking third and Progressive passes.

All in all, I think some positives, but so far too little overall imprint and presence. But, there is every reason to believe that will improve. He's hardly trained with the team yet, after all.
His aerial dual stats have never been the best but we need to give him some half decent balls to attack in the opposition box to see if he can be an aerial threat
 

Sandikan

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Yea people mentioned that he doesn't look as aerially dominant as you would expect for his height and that was what stood out most to me too especially against Arsenal, much to my dismay. Crouch himself was not as good in the air as you would expect for his height.
Maybe not, but Crouch does have the record for most headed goals in premier league history.
 

romufc

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Using a Burnley side that got relegated as a stick to beat him with is just silly tbh.

United have created just 1 chance for him so far (the header against Palace) he's quite clearly being asked to play in a way that sacrifices his own output in a way to feed Rashford.

As long as he keeps working hard, holds up the ball well and gets on the end of a few crosses when they come in, i'm happy with that.

He was never going to be a 30 goal striker and i'm not sure what some are expecting.
I am very surprised to see so many people jump on his back. We have no ST, we have no money.

What do people expect? Seriously. We have become a want want want fan base currently.

We spent over £200m in the summer for a club that is not in the CL. So what did people expect? United go in for Kane, Oshimen, Vlahovic in January?

We needed someone to cover us in that area, this is not a long term signing.
 

ben38sufc

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France recently won the World Cup with their striker barely scoring a goal, with his role being focused on back to goal link up play.

Liverpool have recently won a league and CL with a number 9 contributing far fewer goals than their wide players, with his role being centred around back to goal hold up and link up play.

City have just moved from a false 9 link up focused role having won the 4 PL’s in 5 years, to an out and out goal scoring ST and are currently 5 points off the top having played a game more than the leaders.

Now I’m not saying Wout is gonna be the difference maker, or is even the elite quality that we should be aiming for… but this whole “a number 9s only job is scoring goals” argument is absolute rubbish.
Finally someone speaking sense. People writing him off after he’s making space for Rashford and Bruno to score is hilariously low IQ
 

glazed

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If you coulod merge him with Old Man Ronaldo's goal scoring you'd have a good player.
 

SirReginald

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Using a Burnley side that got relegated as a stick to beat him with is just silly tbh.

United have created just 1 chance for him so far (the header against Palace) he's quite clearly being asked to play in a way that sacrifices his own output in a way to feed Rashford.

As long as he keeps working hard, holds up the ball well and gets on the end of a few crosses when they come in, i'm happy with that.

He was never going to be a 30 goal striker and i'm not sure what some are expecting.
Lazy google searching of his goals to game ratio at previous clubs. Which in itself is weird because most people on here don’t rate the German or Dutch leagues. In actual reality he is an average striker that will do a job for you but will not solve your problems. Much like Igahlo, it will end in a largely forgettable loan but there’s no reason to hate on him for it.
 

mu4c_20le

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Lazy google searching of his goals to game ratio at previous clubs. Which in itself is weird because most people on here don’t rate the German or Dutch leagues. In actual reality he is an average striker that will do a job for you but will not solve your problems. Much like Igahlo, it will end in a largely forgettable loan but there’s no reason to hate on him for it.
I think the situations were also slightly different. I remember most being behind Ighalo because we knew his level coming from the china league, and that we had no other choices. Weggy has been hyped up to insane levels because "ten hag knows him" and because he's apparently exactly what we need/lack, and probably because Joao Felix was seen as a viable altnerative and we went for the cheap option. Not reasons to hate him for it obviously but noticable difference between the Ighalo situation.
 

rollingstoned1

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Maybe not, but Crouch does have the record for most headed goals in premier league history.
Yea I did check and after his time at Stoke he's at 51 headed goals which is the most for any player in the PL.
I'm going off mostly what I remember during his England and Liverpool days where he got pigeonholed as a targetman just because of his height and didn't do as well as everyone expected him to. Otoh there have been some sub 6 ft strikers who have been exceptional in the air eg Cahill, Alan Smith, Kevin Doyle.
Zlatan himself was no great shakes aerially and never did well with his back to goal even if his size tempted many a manager to use him in that role.
 

Adam-Utd

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Lazy google searching of his goals to game ratio at previous clubs. Which in itself is weird because most people on here don’t rate the German or Dutch leagues. In actual reality he is an average striker that will do a job for you but will not solve your problems. Much like Igahlo, it will end in a largely forgettable loan but there’s no reason to hate on him for it.
This is the issue though, who said he would solve our problems?

He was hired for 6 months to fill a hole in the squad we desperately needed cover for. He is doing that.

Is he going to be our long term striker to win us league titles? no. Is he good for 6 months or a back up for a few years? sure why not.
 

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I thought he played well tbh. Some good touches and pressing. He even won the ball a few times up in Arsenal half and started attack.
Let's see for a few matches more before we judged him. Hopefully he score soon to give him more confidence
 

sunama

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The fans do it everytime, big up potential signings to no end and ending up tearing them apart when they don’t meet that misplaced expectation.

You have to feel for him, it’s not his fault that he’s a rather average journeyman striker who spent all of his career to date at clubs nowhere near the size of Utd, and here he is being eviscerated by things outside of his control.
Finally. Somebody said what I was thinking.
He is probably a below-average striker (for EPL standards) and he is basically a "body" to add to our squad at short notice.
I think Ighallo served the same purpose while Ole was in charge.
He isn't a star signing or game-changer. He is an addition to the squad, which was required after Ronaldo left and we are not spending any money on signings, so he serves a purpose.
If he does well, great. If he turns out to be mediocre - no big deal.
Whatever the case, in the Summer, I expect him to be gone, assuming we have a transfer budget to buy a striker.
 
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