Yan Diomande - Linked with Spurs

Hype, objective stats, elite take on ability, farmer's league and bargain did you say?

Ok fine, I'll follow.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
We can discuss hypotheticals. I didn’t say it would or could happen merely that it would be a bargain.

Value and performances linked to a transfer fee of a player we are linked to are valid discussion points here. Feel free to start or add to any thread you like.
Click to expand...
My point was not so much to disagree with you, since you yourself actually pointed out yourself that the player won't move in January. I just find that the lingering phantasma of an impending transfer and a certain sum having to be spent (which in this case is unfounded) usually dumbs the discussion down.
 
FortunaUtd said:
My point was not so much to disagree with you, since you yourself actually pointed out yourself that the player won't move in January. I just find that the lingering phantasma of an impending transfer and a certain sum having to be spent (which in this case is unfounded) usually dumbs the discussion down.
Click to expand...
I’ve used the fee to then compare the player to other players who moved for greater or similar fees as a justification for why we’d be incredibly lucky to get him for that fee and more to the point any fee due to how unique his profile is. If we don’t talk hypothetical price points and value it’s hard to understand for those who aren’t as clued up on him as to what level of player he is.

People were balking at the €100m price point I believe by discussing a £60m price point and using data I’ve evidenced why that fee isn’t as stupid as first thought.

TlDR: I used data to contextualise his value relative to a current or future transfer (of which we are linked to in the summer).

So my question to you is..

 
BenitoSTARR said:
I’ve used the fee to then compare the player to other players who moved for greater or similar fees as a justification for why we’d be incredibly lucky to get him for that fee and more to the point any fee due to how unique his profile is. If we don’t talk hypothetical price points and value it’s hard to understand for those who aren’t as clued up on him as to what level of player he is.

People were balking at the €100m price point I believe by discussing a £60m price point and using data I’ve evidenced why that fee isn’t as stupid as first thought.

TlDR: I used data to contextualise his value relative to a current or future transfer (of which we are linked to in the summer).

So my question to you is..

Click to expand...

:lol:

The answer is, nothing.
Nope, actually I made a long post in the Amorim thread which I think made some half-decent point so at least there's that.
 
Someone wrote up a article based on his FBref stats and @BenitoSTARR isn't over exaggerating. He really does have some impressive stats. My only concern would be second season syndrome, when teams work out how to play against him and plan for it. How will he react and develop?
 
Watching him on the AFCON, he’s crap. Of links to Spurs are true, that’s probably his current level and even then it’s a big risk. I would stay well clear. He’s not ready.
 
giorno said:
Here's a profile of him for those interested

https://www.thetransferflow.com/p/where-is-yan-diomande-s-ceiling
Click to expand...
I’d say that profile is overly cautious and falls into the trap of direct comparison with Doku but does at least pick up on some key themes of the player. 7.5/10 for me.

The slight criticism of him using his “athletic gifts so much he slows the temp down too often….” Is bollocks and comes from a fundamental misunderstanding of “la pausa” sometimes the lack of movement of the dribbler allows the rest of the pitch to move around them to create more optimal positions to create and disrupt opposition blocks. It’s such a vital skill to have!

Diomande is an accomplished cut back crosser and his passes into and around the box have “empathy” as some analysts call it in that he not only considers the best player to pass to, but also how much weight and to which foot, with certain spin types he should apply to the pass too. He’s a better creative passer than ANY U21 player in the first 900 minutes that also enters the box, carries and dribbles as much as he has done thus far. The reason he doesn’t cross is because her consistently and reliably gets himself into deeper territories inside the box making cut backs the most dangerous and appropriate pass of choice. Other players cross more because at his age especially cannot penetrate the box deeply with regularity (giggity). The thing he’s being critiqued for a bit here is an absolute footballing super power and ironically the thing Doku has only just learnt to do better. They are also statistically the most likely pass to score from.

It’s intelligence not inability in action here. One of my favourite analysts once said “don’t assume a player can’t do something just because you haven’t seen it” which I’m paraphrasing but essentially means players make micro decisions on the fly and there will be tactical instructions given as to what kind of offensive actions and positions to take up as well as an understanding of how the team wants to create chances. A lot of what he does is intelligent and appropriate and a cross would lessen the chance of successfully reaching a teammate.

And as for through balls? Again he’s not occupying the half spaces as much as a Cherki would and therefore it would be a waste for him to attempt more of those passes without a reliable runner in behind. That’s team function in action not inability to perform that kind of pass. I question how much the writer has actually seen him play vs how much he’s just looked at event data without considering the context and build up to the event and the aftermath too.

His ball striking can be worked on but his ambipedality means I can see him with the right 1to 1 coaching excelling in his ability to finish far more than Doku could ever hope. Think this seasons Antony Semenyo.

It’s also odd to critique his off ball movement when he gets himself into the box so often and as stated gets him in better shooting positions as a result. It’s like telling a hawk not to hunt by flying because some animals hunt by running. Again it’s not about an incapability of performing those runs it’s that he is so freakishly effective on the ball his team mates seek him out immediately and basically ask him to do a Messi and make some magic to win the game.

TLDR: I think the writer has only looked at data and not properly watched him play. I genuinely believe I could do a better job of this.

Uncle Mainoo said:
Watching him on the AFCON, he’s crap. Of links to Spurs are true, that’s probably his current level and even then it’s a big risk. I would stay well clear. He’s not ready.
Click to expand...
Then you don’t understand modern football. Or at least the role of a wide forward/winger very well.
 
dinostar77 said:
Someone wrote up an article based on his FBref stats and @BenitoSTARR isn't over exaggerating. He really does have some impressive stats. My only concern would be second season syndrome, when teams work out how to play against him and plan for it. How will he react and develop?
Click to expand...
He’s already dealing with 2 v 1 and 3 v 1 scenarios in both La Liga and Bundesliga (as well as AFCON) he’ll be fine.
 


Rated higher than Guler, Paz, Yildiz etc.

This isn’t normal for an 18 just turned 19 year old!
 
BenitoSTARR said:


Rated higher than Guler, Paz, Yildiz etc.

This isn’t normal for an 18 just turned 19 year old!
Click to expand...

Well it kind of is normal for a big talent, which he appears to be

He's also nowhere close to Lamine Yamal though, the one guy that's truly generational out of that group. Still, I'd spend big money for any of Doué, Yildiz or Paz if I were a big club, so that's good company to keep as far as i'm concerned
 
This guys rapid. We’re desperate for pace upfront. But we have an habit of ruining Young talent recently
 
giorno said:
Well it kind of is normal for a big talent, which he appears to be

He's also nowhere close to Lamine Yamal though, the one guy that's truly generational out of that group. Still, I'd spend big money for any of Doué, Yildiz or Paz if I were a big club, so that's good company to keep as far as i'm concerned
Click to expand...
I agree Yamal is the best currently. But when you do dig into it he’s not light years ahead of one player U21… you guessed it Yan Diomande. Take ons, chance creation, dribbles, npxg blah blah blah.

I’d never be so silly as to claim he is as good. He’s not. But if you can’t have the OG Big Mac then this is the best “but we have McDonalds at home” equivalent.

The massively underrated aspect of his game though is the defensive side. I cannot find any player who is as good in offensive actions and also does as much as he does defensively (and I challenge anyone to find someone!).

I hope that in the right team they take some of that defensive responsibility away because then you’d see a fully preserved winger attacking defensive structures not one after a gruelling recovery run.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
I agree Yamal is the best currently. But when you do dig into it he’s not light years ahead of one player U21… you guessed it Yan Diomande. Take ons, chance creation, dribbles, npxg blah blah blah.

I’d never be so silly as to claim he is as good. He’s not. But if you can’t have the OG Big Mac then this is the best “but we have McDonalds at home” equivalent.

The massively underrated aspect of his game though is the defensive side. I cannot find any player who is as good in offensive actions and also does as much as he does defensively (and I challenge anyone to find someone!).

I hope that in the right team they take some of that defensive responsibility away because then you’d see a fully preserved winger attacking defensive structures not one after a gruelling recovery ru
Click to expand...

BenitoSTARR said:
I don’t believe Jacquet would be a good signing for us nor do I feel he’d want to come to us.

Anderson
Diomande
Baleba

Anything else is such a bonus.
Click to expand...

I think we had a chat about Diomande towards the end of last season. Basically, his stats even given his limited minutes at Leganes were absolutely eye popping and it was worth the risk given a sub 20m fee that Leipzig paid. I know that the guys at Scouted were hyping him up big time.

I agree with you, it's not that he's worth 60m now per se but that in 2-3 years time, he could be worth 100m. Anyone who's stats are up there with Yamal, Doue and the like, should be on our radar. We would probably pay up to 100m for those players, so 60m for Diomande is one we should be comfortably paying. However given the interest in him, I fear Leipzig would demand 100m even in the summer. He can play multiple positions, suit any system and brings express speed to a squad that isn't blessed with many speed merchants. I also like Bazoumana Toure but I feel Diomande is another level higher. I would love to see him at LWB with Amad on the other side.

I quite like Jacquet and think he would be a great replacement for Maguire. He's aggressive, athletic, good aerial ability and good with the ball; he could play as the CCB or RCB. Curious to know why you don't rate him?
 
Nice to see us linked to him and Jacquet let's see in the summer
 
Kingslayer18 said:
I think we had a chat about Diomande towards the end of last season. Basically, his stats even given his limited minutes at Leganes were absolutely eye popping and it was worth the risk given a sub 20m fee that Leipzig paid. I know that the guys at Scouted were hyping him up big time.

I agree with you, it's not that he's worth 60m now per se but that in 2-3 years time, he could be worth 100m. Anyone who's stats are up there with Yamal, Doue and the like, should be on our radar. We would probably pay up to 100m for those players, so 60m for Diomande is one we should be comfortably paying. However given the interest in him, I fear Leipzig would demand 100m even in the summer. He can play multiple positions, suit any system and brings express speed to a squad that isn't blessed with many speed merchants. I also like Bazoumana Toure but I feel Diomande is another level higher. I would love to see him at LWB with Amad on the other side.

I quite like Jacquet and think he would be a great replacement for Maguire. He's aggressive, athletic, good aerial ability and good with the ball; he could play as the CCB or RCB. Curious to know why you don't rate him?
Click to expand...
We did, and I enjoy our little back and forths, he’s gone from strength to strength.

I’d say he’s playing currently like a £50m+ PL winger without much doubt. I do think any fee above that is investing in future value rather than current level.

I think they’d probably more likely consider a summer sale ~£68m with add ons taking it to closer to £80m if achievable but they’ll want a record club fee for him overall I reckon.

Jacquet is probably one of the most promising CBs in the world and looks like he is destined for the top level. I rate him about as high as I could rate any young CB in world football. But he’s 20 and we have Yoro and Heaven so I don’t think we are the best place for him nor do I think we would benefit from signing him as much as his fee would command. Our next few signings need to be better than our starting XI and almost instantly guaranteed successes. I also think we need a LCB more than what Jacquet could be as CCB or RCB (Of which Yoro should be capable of fulfilling a role).

So my argument would be what would improve this most:

Lemmens
Yoro De Ligt Martinez
Amad Bruno Casemiro Dorgu/Dalot?
Mbeumo Cunha
Sesko
​
I’d say a pair of CMs, a LWB/winger and maybe a LCB would be the priority.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
We did, and I enjoy our little back and forths, he’s gone from strength to strength.

I’d say he’s playing currently like a £50m+ PL winger without much doubt. I do think any fee above that is investing in future value rather than current level.

I think they’d probably more likely consider a summer sale ~£68m with add ons taking it to closer to £80m if achievable but they’ll want a record club fee for him overall I reckon.

Jacquet is probably one of the most promising CBs in the world and looks like he is destined for the top level. I rate him about as high as I could rate any young CB in world football. But he’s 20 and we have Yoro and Heaven so I don’t think we are the best place for him nor do I think we would benefit from signing him as much as his fee would command. Our next few signings need to be better than our starting XI and almost instantly guaranteed successes. I also think we need a LCB more than what Jacquet could be as CCB or RCB (Of which Yoro should be capable of fulfilling a role).

So my argument would be what would improve this most:

Lemmens
Yoro De Ligt Martinez
Amad Bruno Casemiro Dorgu/Dalot?
Mbeumo Cunha
Sesko
​
I’d say a pair of CMs, a LWB/winger and maybe a LCB would be the priority.
Click to expand...

I feel we have 300m to spend in the summer, with European football higher. I think we will go for 3 CMS and a wingback plus squad players personally.

Even if we reserve 200m for the midfield (3 of them) and with sales we have cash for investment as we need to be getting regular top 4 as we build the squad.

I wouldn't rule out Diomande at all, we would be stupid not to try. He should be our preferred option on the left imo.
 
Uncle Mainoo said:
Fans can refuse to learn if they want. Sesko was the next big thing. Now he’s here stinking up the place too.

This purchase would be totally ineffective.
Click to expand...

Diomande's current stats in the Bundesliga are looking more outstanding than Sesko's were in his last season before moving.

Ekitike had mostly better stats than Sesko in the BL last season and is outperforming him in the PL this one now.

Wirtz's were also great in fairness, but he seemed a bit more on the timid side, similar to Sesko. I think Diomande has enough strength and confidence for the PL.
 
Uncle Mainoo said:
Fans can refuse to learn if they want. Sesko was the next big thing. Now he’s here stinking up the place too.

This purchase would be totally ineffective.
Click to expand...
He really wasn’t. He was widely regarded as a player who had a lot of promise, but with serious question marks above him. That he’s struggling to adapt, comes in no way as a surprise and was expected by many. I don’t think many people who followed him closely would agree, that he was regarded as the next big thing.
 
HTG said:
He really wasn’t. He was widely regarded as a player who had a lot of promise, but with serious question marks above him. That he’s struggling to adapt, comes in no way as a surprise and was expected by many. I don’t think many people who followed him closely would agree, that he was regarded as the next big thing.
Click to expand...
That’s fine. Copy and paste this response for when Diomande moves and disappoints. Add him to the Chelsea wingers list.
 
Uncle Mainoo said:
That’s fine. Copy and paste this response for when Diomande moves and disappoints. Add him to the Chelsea wingers list.
Click to expand...
I don’t really understand that response. All I’m saying is, that I don’t think Sesko was ever regarded as the next big thing by most who followed him.
 
ClosetDevil said:
I don't know how I feel about signing another player which we'd lose to AFCON at a critical period of that premier league season. We'd just be stuck with another depleted squad yet again.
Click to expand...
My understanding is that the next one will be held during the summer and then every 4 years thereafter
 
I’d be strongly advising Yan Diomande to run a mile away if United come calling.

Zero long term planning or strategy here.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
I’d be strongly advising Yan Diomande to run a mile away if United come calling.

Zero long term planning or strategy here.
Click to expand...
Don't lose hope now after your campaign, you've convinced me.

What if it meant him joining spurs instead?
 
CallyRed said:
Don't lose hope now after your campaign, you've convinced me.

What if it meant him joining spurs instead?
Click to expand...
I couldn’t with any good conscience advise any young player that we are a good destination.

This latest sacking shows how poor our squad planning is.
 


Best club in the world for him to gain profile and develop just like Olise.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
We did, and I enjoy our little back and forths, he’s gone from strength to strength.

I’d say he’s playing currently like a £50m+ PL winger without much doubt. I do think any fee above that is investing in future value rather than current level.

I think they’d probably more likely consider a summer sale ~£68m with add ons taking it to closer to £80m if achievable but they’ll want a record club fee for him overall I reckon.

Jacquet is probably one of the most promising CBs in the world and looks like he is destined for the top level. I rate him about as high as I could rate any young CB in world football. But he’s 20 and we have Yoro and Heaven so I don’t think we are the best place for him nor do I think we would benefit from signing him as much as his fee would command. Our next few signings need to be better than our starting XI and almost instantly guaranteed successes. I also think we need a LCB more than what Jacquet could be as CCB or RCB (Of which Yoro should be capable of fulfilling a role).

So my argument would be what would improve this most:

Lemmens
Yoro De Ligt Martinez
Amad Bruno Casemiro Dorgu/Dalot?
Mbeumo Cunha
Sesko
​
I’d say a pair of CMs, a LWB/winger and maybe a LCB would be the priority.
Click to expand...

68m with add ons seems a realistic fee and while a huge markup for Leipzig, one I would be happy to pay. Now that Amorim is gone, we wouldn't be looking at him as LWB but for the LW. However, he doesn't start ahead of Cunha and that seems a high fee for someone to be on the bench. But he's young, multifaceted so he would be great for the long term. I don't think Cunha is in a United team that wins the league but Diomande could certainly be.

Diomande dovetailing with Amad/Mbuemo would be something.

Let's assume Shaw goes back to LB now, we still have Martinez and Heaven for LCB and De Light, Yoro & Maguire for RCB. Do we bring in a LCB who gets in ahead of Martinez? I think the club will go and sign a really good LB now with Shaw's fitness worries & expiring contract plus Dorgu's inexperience mean we need a solid starter in that role.

Agreed on the CMs, that is a non-negotiable for the summer.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.