Yet another Tactical Masterclass from Ole Gunnar Solskjaer. Whoop whoop!

neilv93

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Best thing for me is not the result (same with PSG) or goals scored, but those kept out. We've defended expertly, keeping shots to a minimum and holding a solid structure as a team. Bar a freak/clumsy OG from Tony in Paris, we'd be top of the "group of death" with 7GF 0GA and 6pts against last season's runners-up and semi-finalists.

The key now is to bring this solidity into the league to avoid more Spurs results and Brighton defensive performances. But I am made up for Ole - deserves a ton of praise.
 

Posh Red

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Perhaps "Counter" is the wrong word, I don't mean we sit deep waiting to pounce on a mistake but rather we both counter each other where we are both attacking teams, it's end to end. I think PSG & RBL did try to attack us, not being very successful is due to how we played but the fact they put men forward ultimately favored our play as the better attacking team on the night. Stats can be so misleading, I wouldn't bother, quite simply they weren't playing safe, they wanted to score against us, they would move up the pitch trying to attack us, we win the ball and they are higher up caught out of possession, that's all I mean, we favor playing teams who try to play against us.
This applies to most teams though. Which teams play better against teams that sit back and defend?
 

MalibuKen

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Who was in the diamond then and in what positions?

From the moment McTominay came on, he lined up in a 2 next to Fred. Look at Fred's change of position. He moved from right of the diamond to left of a midfield 2.
If you look at the average locations maps in the second half, or just watch the game you'll have noticed Fred dropping in as the centre DM once Matic went off, McTominay to the right of him, Pogba until he got subbed was on the left of him.

I'm not sure what else you'd like me to say really.
 

Grande

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But as a staunch ole outter I’m happy for him I do want him to succeed but don’t see it however over the last month I’ve decided to keep quiet and see where this leads us. If he does turn the corner then I’m one outter who will shut it. But until we’ve had consistency please don’t start telling us outters he’s cracked it. Show me consistent results and performances over 15 games and then start the greatest tactical mind conversation....
Not interested in debating extremes like ‘greatest’ this and that. Looking for consistency, this is the three latest periods after the Burnley game:

Up until lockdown: 8-3-0 29-2
After restart: 9-3-2 29-13
New season: 6-1-2 22-13

That is pretty consistent over 10 months, three stretches and 34 games. I doubt you’ll find many other teams who have shown much better consistency in that period of time. Every team drops a clanger now and then, and particularily so the biginning of this season. I’m not arguing for why you should support the manager or not really, but there are some narratives being peddled uncritically that doesn’t hold up very well to scrutiny. United as particularily inconsistent is one of them. Another one is ‘we don’t beat teams that sit back’ (13-3-1 in the last 17 games against defensive teams) and ‘we haven’t seen progress’ (Consistently better results and play on a semester by semester evaluation).
 

AngeloHenriquez

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This applies to most teams though. Which teams play better against teams that sit back and defend?
No teams prefer playing against teams that sit back unless they have a Barcelona style possession game which forces their opponents to do so. It's more that some teams don't struggle like we do against a compact defense is my point.
 

Posh Red

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No teams prefer playing against teams that sit back unless they have a Barcelona style possession game which forces their opponents to do so. It's more that some teams don't struggle like we do against a compact defense is my point.
I think this has been true in the past but not sure it’s as much of an issue since Bruno came.
 

sammsky1

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Best thing for me is not the result (same with PSG) or goals scored, but those kept out. We've defended expertly, keeping shots to a minimum and holding a solid structure as a team. Bar a freak/clumsy OG from Tony in Paris, we'd be top of the "group of death" with 7GF 0GA and 6pts against last season's runners-up and semi-finalists.

The key now is to bring this solidity into the league to avoid more Spurs results and Brighton defensive performances. But I am made up for Ole - deserves a ton of praise.
This is a very important part of Ole tactical achievement. Lets remember back to Mourinho who was always scared to attack too much because he believed his defence was shaky. While it was obviously fitness issues that caused our horrific start o the season, our defenders had their confidence shaken anyway. Asking the team to play on the front foot, despite that loss of confidence and still keep clean sheets is a very brave tactical choice, and Ole and his players have delivered against Chelsea and now also Leipzig
 

RedDevilUnited369

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Last night was 10/10 from Ole. Everything was correct from the line up to game management.

Quick question though, was it really a diamond system or 4-2-3-1?
 

gerdm07

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All of you Ole haters can go suck an egg.

This was a master tactician at work. Some thoughts.

- Ole knew we could create chances on the counter so it made sense to absorb their pressure
- Ole also knew our defense could keep them at bay while letting them have possession
- Ole knew having the defense pass the ball around would fatigue their players. There were many times I though why are we playing it so much back, but now I realize that was the strategy.
- Ole knew bringing Rashford, Bruno, and McT on against a tired team could make a huge difference if needed

I will admit I was getting a little nervous in the 2nd half when the pressure on our defense was building and building. Then the subs came on and that was that.

I thought everyone played great tonight except Martial and Fred. Martial is not at top form yet and Fred had some loose passes.

What a beautiful pass by Bruno behind the defense. And his pass for the set piece almost worked.
 

gerdm07

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Last night was 10/10 from Ole. Everything was correct from the line up to game management.

Quick question though, was it really a diamond system or 4-2-3-1?
I saw it more as a 4-1-2-3. VdB was more of a false nine because he was so far forward.
 

Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær

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Best thing for me is not the result (same with PSG) or goals scored, but those kept out. We've defended expertly, keeping shots to a minimum and holding a solid structure as a team. Bar a freak/clumsy OG from Tony in Paris, we'd be top of the "group of death" with 7GF 0GA and 6pts against last season's runners-up and semi-finalists.

The key now is to bring this solidity into the league to avoid more Spurs results and Brighton defensive performances. But I am made up for Ole - deserves a ton of praise.
Even with the OG, we are fecking badass. Group of Death (by Manchester United). You love to see it!
 

BR7

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All of you Ole haters can go suck an egg.

This was a master tactician at work. Some thoughts.

- Ole knew we could create chances on the counter so it made sense to absorb their pressure
- Ole also knew our defense could keep them at bay while letting them have possession
- Ole knew having the defense pass the ball around would fatigue their players. There were many times I though why are we playing it so much back, but now I realize that was the strategy.
- Ole knew bringing Rashford, Bruno, and McT on against a tired team could make a huge difference if needed

I will admit I was getting a little nervous in the 2nd half when the pressure on our defense was building and building. Then the subs came on and that was that.

I thought everyone played great tonight except Martial and Fred. Martial is not at top form yet and Fred had some loose passes.

What a beautiful pass by Bruno behind the defense. And his pass for the set piece almost worked.
Why don’t u come make me suck an egg? Stick to your keyboard.
 

GazTheLegend

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The fact that you've been on this forum since 2008 tells me that you're at least 25 years old. The fact that at you're age you're trolling on an internet forum is kinda sad.

I'm not getting dragged into it anyway. Great win tonight, that last 30 minutes in particular was like the United I grew up watching.
I felt the exact same, I remember many times teams came to Old Trafford full of confidence who looked absolutely shell shocked at the final whistle after a similar obliteration. It used to be that once the shackles came off after a first goal our players showed how good they really were by exploiting the space given to them ruthlessly and it was always brilliant to watch.
 

reelworld

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Sorry but you won't get that from one of the youngest squads in europe under a manager still learning. If you feel that this sqaud can be more consistent under a different manager (Poch, Naggelsmann, etc) that's your opinion and i disagree whole heartedly.
Geez, where did I say that?
The youngest side it's a bit misleading when most of the players have been playing regularly in the PL for a few years.

That was title winning form, so are you saying is that it's title or bust this season? To get there in two seasons after building a new team from the bottom is nearly unheard of, but feel free to give examples of someone who has done it.

I'd say your expectations are a bit unrealistic.
Again, I didn't say that. But I do want United to win titles again. I don't think there's anything wrong with that
Is finishing 3rd last season enough for you? Or should we ignore that too?
That's not even my point at all.

It seems that people in this thread is really touchy when I said Ole needs to improve. I'm was never OleOUT, but I want him to improve, because when he do that then he'll be winning titles here
Adios
 

romufc

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The one thing that pleased me most in that game was in game management. We conceded the goal and were quite erratic for 10-15 mins after but defended really well and managed the game.

Even the little things, we seem to have learnt from the last few games.

A small example is, we kept trying to play out from the back from goal kicks but in the 44th minute, DDG instead of playing it short, took a long goal kick towards Pogba. Remember against spurs 2-1 down, just got sent off and they didn't manage the game.

Then the second half, knew they will come out at us, brought on pace and killed them off.
 

Redfrog

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On our day we're absolutely a top class team. It's time we challenge for big things really. We aren't getting a much better squad than this for the next few years.
Don't agree with that. Our squad is very young. Only Matic is past 30 ( I don't count deadwood).

There is a lot of room for progress for the likes of Rashford, Greenwood, Martial, McTominay, Wan-Bissaka, even Shaw, Van de Beek and Lindelof. And the likes of Bruno, Fred, Pogba, Maguire have still plenty of years ahead of them.

We were the youngest team in the Prem last year and still probably are. And what is even better is that a lot of this players have plenty of experience under there belt, even at such a young age ( Say hello Rashford).

I said before the season started that even if we don't buy plenty of players that thé players can progress because they are young and talented. Maybe we will see this this year...

I am old enough to remember the year we bought only Carrick...that was not too Bad after that...I am not saying we will have thé same success but futur is bright for sure.
 

OldTrevil

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Absolutely enjoyed that, tactically for large parts and as a spectacle towards the end. Ole has built a formidable side and I hope he stays the course
 

georgipep

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Geez, where did I say that?
The youngest side it's a bit misleading when most of the players have been playing regularly in the PL for a few years.


Again, I didn't say that. But I do want United to win titles again. I don't think there's anything wrong with that

That's not even my point at all.

It seems that people in this thread is really touchy when I said Ole needs to improve. I'm was never OleOUT, but I want him to improve, because when he do that then he'll be winning titles here
Adios
I think your expectations are a bit surreal and unreasonable. Liverpool's run of games without dropping a point (well, except against us) was one of a kind occurence that even the same team cannot repeat this season. I don't get how one would expect a 100% win rate. Have you noticed how other clubs are faring recently with supposedly world class managers?

Also, the fact that some of our youngsters, like Rashford, have played a few years of PL football, doesn't make them seasoned professionals yet. It is unfair to have same expectations on them as you would on 27-28 year old pros in their peak seasons.
 

UDontMessWith24

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Anyone failing to admit Ole has this in him is a fool. Unfortunately though this doesn’t address the shortcoming that Ole has yet to overcome.

Beat the teams you should beat on a consistent basis, and don’t take 4-5 matches to bounce back from a bad result. If he can do this we could at least be in the title conversation, but he hasn’t shown he can do it yet.

Samski is a lucky kid. I wish there was a United message board to post my nonsense on when I was 14.
 

STYLOISRED

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Geez, where did I say that?
The youngest side it's a bit misleading when most of the players have been playing regularly in the PL for a few years.
Ok i should have used 'people' instead of 'you' but my pount still stands- he is the man for the job and so far there isn't any indication that we are stagnating under him so there is no reason to replace him.

Again, I didn't say that. But I do want United to win titles again. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
We all do. Am a pretty young fan who started supporting Man Utd in 2008 so the past few years haven't been easy. But we are to be objective qnd realistic lest we fall into the trap of trying to run before we work. For all the ineptitude in our boardroom, we finally have a manager who taking us in the the right direction. It might be slow but it is evident and i say don't fix what isn't broken. Until Ole shows that he can't get anymore out of this squad then trying to hasten the process might damage the good work already done.

It seems that people in this thread is really touchy when I said Ole needs to improve. I'm was never OleOUT, but I want him to improve, because when he do that then he'll be winning titles here
Adios
There are touchy because they have had to endure endless negativity concerning Ole. There are periods that am scared to enter the cafe because of the magnitude of negatively that is displayed here at times.
 

Okey

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A bit left field here... Seeing as Ole has been fantastic with man management so far, not just these tactical victories, I wonder if he'd consider giving Hendo a game against Basaksehir. Heck, maybe even both games against them. The goalkeeper department isn't somewhere we should be worried about for those games. Give the heir apparent a run out...
 

TrustInOle

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Fantastic thread and hopefully puts to rest alot of the doubters and we can just get behind and back our manager. It's very evident that he is building something special for the future.
 

Foxbatt

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He got it right and lot of people are agreeing with it but some are having a go at some players like DVB. But that's the way Ole wanted to play tactically.
I hope he does the same again Arsenal too.
 

R77

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A bit left field here... Seeing as Ole has been fantastic with man management so far, not just these tactical victories, I wonder if he'd consider giving Hendo a game against Basaksehir. Heck, maybe even both games against them. The goalkeeper department isn't somewhere we should be worried about for those games. Give the heir apparent a run out...
Don't think that's leftfield at all. It would be unwise to not show anyone respect at this level, but the Istanbul games are the closest to a rest opportunity for a few players we'll have had for a while. Giving him a taste of the CL would be nice to see and the sort of move Ole would make imo.
 

R77

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The Istanbul game is a must win game for us.
It is, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a full strength side. If only for what it would mean for the group. Easily the least threatening fixture on paper of the last few weeks though.
 

romufc

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The Istanbul game is a must win game for us.
Agreed no point winning against PSG and Leipzig if we wont do the business against Istanbul, if we can come through those games with 1 win and 1 draw, I would take it.
 

Joseunited

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All of you Ole haters can go suck an egg.

This was a master tactician at work. Some thoughts.

- Ole knew we could create chances on the counter so it made sense to absorb their pressure
- Ole also knew our defense could keep them at bay while letting them have possession
- Ole knew having the defense pass the ball around would fatigue their players. There were many times I though why are we playing it so much back, but now I realize that was the strategy.
- Ole knew bringing Rashford, Bruno, and McT on against a tired team could make a huge difference if needed

I will admit I was getting a little nervous in the 2nd half when the pressure on our defense was building and building. Then the subs came on and that was that.

I thought everyone played great tonight except Martial and Fred. Martial is not at top form yet and Fred had some loose passes.

What a beautiful pass by Bruno behind the defense. And his pass for the set piece almost worked.
Aside from a couple of wayward passes,Fred was top class.Never gave a Leipzig player a second on the ball(one of which resulted in a goal).Positionally very disciplined too.
He'll play plenty this season and a lot of those will be big games.
 

Foxbatt

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FFS. We beat PSG and put five past Leipzig, both of whom beat Istanbul. No need for this kind of ridiculousness. We'll get a minimum of 12 points in the group and are essentially through.
It doesn't mean we would beat them. It's this kind of taking for granted that gets us into trouble. I remember under SAF we didn't win against Basel or some Swiss side where they had the game of their lives and we missed sitters and going out of the CL.
We have to win both games against the Turkish side and we are thru and don't have to worry about the two games against PSG and Leipzig.
 

gerdm07

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Aside from a couple of wayward passes,Fred was top class.Never gave a Leipzig player a second on the ball(one of which resulted in a goal).Positionally very disciplined too.
He'll play plenty this season and a lot of those will be big games.
It was more than a couple. A few were in pretty dangerous areas giving them a chance for a good attack.
 

Pavl3n

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Last night was 10/10 from Ole. Everything was correct from the line up to game management.

Quick question though, was it really a diamond system or 4-2-3-1?
In my opinion it was everything. From 4-3-1-2 to 4-3-3 drifting into 4-2-3-1.
 

Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær

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It doesn't mean we would beat them. It's this kind of taking for granted that gets us into trouble. I remember under SAF we didn't win against Basel or some Swiss side where they had the game of their lives and we missed sitters and going out of the CL.
We have to win both games against the Turkish side and we are thru and don't have to worry about the two games against PSG and Leipzig.
Crashing out of the CL in 2011 during the group stage was a result of not taking the entire group seriously (as well as not having a competent midfield, unlike today). The team have already demonstrated their focus by beating the big sides that most thought we would lose to. In 2011 we drew both matches against Benfica, drew and lost against Basel. We're already out performing that. Nothing to worry about until the knockouts.

We will win both games againt Istanbul, I've zero doubt about it.
 
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sammsky1

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It doesn't mean we would beat them. It's this kind of taking for granted that gets us into trouble. I remember under SAF we didn't win against Basel or some Swiss side where they had the game of their lives and we missed sitters and going out of the CL.
We have to win both games against the Turkish side and we are thru and don't have to worry about the two games against PSG and Leipzig.
Do you think OGS will take this for granted? Now he finally has a little squad depth, he can rotate with players like Henderson, Tuanzebe, Bailly Telles, McT, VDB, Cavani and Greenwood retain some semblance of consistent quality.

Fergie used to say if 8/11 players play well, you win the game. It's then up to the players to execute the chosen tactics and play close to their upper levels. I still think he will put out teams vs Istanbul home and away that he believes can win the game. And adding in quality rotation players is always good as it keeps competition for places razor sharp.

Just imagine if we can add Upamecano and Sancho or Haaland to our squad in the summer!
 

VorZakone

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Ole is great in big games, no doubt about that.

He just needs to learn how to win those games against your ordinary mid-table PL teams. Those are the ones that are costing us.
Didn't he do that too after Bruno was bought? It's a bit of a tiring criticism post-Bruno.
 

sammsky1

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Crashing out of the CL in 2011 during the group stage was a result of not taking the entire group seriously (as well as not having a competent midfield, unlike today). The team have already demonstrated their focus by beating the big sides that most thought we would lose to. In 2011 we drew both matches against Benfica, drew and lost against Basel. We're already out performing that. Nothing to worry about until the knockouts.
We will both boss games against Istanbul, I've zero doubt about it.
Yeah, squad now has the bit between its teeth for CL. I think we'll win both, dishing out a thrashing in one of the games.
 

sammsky1

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A bit left field here... Seeing as Ole has been fantastic with man management so far, not just these tactical victories, I wonder if he'd consider giving Hendo a game against Basaksehir. Heck, maybe even both games against them. The goalkeeper department isn't somewhere we should be worried about for those games. Give the heir apparent a run out...
I think this would be a great idea.
Perhaps in the 2nd game, and if we win that, Hendo can also play in all the dead rubbers vs PSG and Leipzig which would be great experience for him.
 

sammsky1

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Ole is great in big games, no doubt about that.
He just needs to learn how to win those games against your ordinary mid-table PL teams. Those are the ones that are costing us.
Can you tell me when he hasn't done this?
Surely you admit that our team is now fundamentally different in terms of personnel, capability and tactical prowess since January 2020?
Because since March, we have been the most consistent team in the Premier League.