Youri Tielemans | Signed | #18
- Thread starter top1whoisman
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is he going for pre-season or he will be on extended holidays due to the world cup?
Belgium’s last match was on 10 July, so he’ll probably join in the beginning of August.
If it was me I’d play him as a 6 in a 433. He’s great at receiving the ball from the back and progressing the ball through passes. He rarely passes backwards. In time I’d say that him and Mainoo could swap positions or even during the match just to keep the opposition on their toes
Bruno, Mainoo probably on holidays still too. Looks like only Mount and Santos for pre-seaon.
That and youth, yeah.
Yea. I think he must. The composition of midfield so far seems more like a ‘team’ than like a first choice duo with backups. Carrick played in a midfield duo with Scholes which everybody said couldn’t work, and in a team of midfielders with Darren Fletcher and Owen Hargreaves in addition, so he should know what he’s asking for regarding profiles.
If Mainoo misses out on playing time, it will be down to himself this time. I think he has good chances of kicking on and continuing as an important member of the team this season.
Has there been an interview? Can’t find one which is strange
Edit : just seen it, I looked yesterday
Edit : just seen it, I looked yesterday
Only positive is that most other big clubs have it as bad / worse than us. Players will be in bad shape next season.
Arsenal will be absolutely fecked. Saliba injured, Rice shattered, Saka never gotten fit
I don't know how they push to the limit. Saliba was apparently playing with a fracture and pain killers through the whole tournament. Saka was running like a guy who sustained an injury and is trying to run it off during the match but failing to do so ..
They have the squad depth but I don't know how they do well for the first few months of the season.
Maguire, Sesko, Mbeumo, Dorgu and Shaw as well (plus Zirkzee and De Ligt)
We’ve probably got more first teamers who had the summer off than most of our rivals.
Signing of the season so far. He's going to be mint.
They bought tzolis. Rumours that they are also going for Morgan Rogers. Remains to be seen if they get anywhere with BrunoG. Also rumoured to want Alvarez from Atletico. Think arsenal will be fairly busy in the market soon.
He's a Mainoo alternative, he's a Mainoo partner, he's a starter, he's a bench player.
We need 4 good midfielders and the combination should depend on form, fitness, opposition, rotation.
I don't think we've got ourselves in a position where we've signed players with such high profiles and price tags that they have to start (like Chelsea have done with Enzo and Caicedo for example).
Mount is unsellable and he's still providing cover for the attacking midfield position. If we sold him and don't replace him, we'd be a player short of standard depth.
I don't think he'll start many games alongside Kobbie, feels lightweight considering Bruno will be in front of them, but that remains to be seen.
I actually think he puts any notion of Kobbie being an automatic starter at serious risk. He's the captain of Belgium, a proven high level operator in midfield in this league, and he's in his prime. If he carries his form from Villa and stays fit, I can't imagine him getting benched much.
I actually think he puts any notion of Kobbie being an automatic starter at serious risk. He's the captain of Belgium, a proven high level operator in midfield in this league, and he's in his prime. If he carries his form from Villa and stays fit, I can't imagine him getting benched much.
Yep we are probably better than most in other areas but Im more concern with our midfield. Other than Mount and Santos we dont have much options in the middle of the park.
Its very difficult to sustain momentum after winning a PL anyway, only a few teams like United in Fergie's time, Chelsea and City have been able to do it. Not sure about Arsenal.
Tielemans is better than Tonali, but Fernandes edges Santos. Overall our pair offer better passing which was one of my main concerns after we missed out on Fernandes - was worried we’d end up with runners and carriers more than passers, so I’m very relieved with how it’s turned out.
Especially if their scummy anti-football tactics are clamped down on
I think the notion of an automatic starter is not the goal here. The only automatic starters in the team atm are Bruno and Lammens. End of last season, Mainoo and Casemiro were automatic starters out of lack - it’s exactly this problem that needs to be solved. At this point, with Tielemans, Mainoo, Santos and Mount, none of these are guaranteed a place, but all could play together. Mainoo and Mount as a pivot worked a treat away to a Brighton with something to play for in the last game we played, and regardless of Mount’s unpredictable health, I think it shows you that Carrick will not be afraid to put any combination of these four on the pitch in 90% of the games. I think we need a fourth/fifth midfielder (depending on wether you count Mount (I count Mount)) with the same general features as the others (decent on the ball, can pass forward, useful in bith directions) but a more marked ability to protect defensive space, cover ground and strong in defensive 1-vs-1 situations. This is consistent with the links to Kone, Camavinga and previously Tschouameni, not so much Baleba and Gomes, which makes me think we aren’t/weren’t really in for them after Amorim left. Names like Sangare and Bouaddi, whom we haven’t been much linked to, also would make sense.
First of all Mainoo is definitely not a 6.
The reason that I raised those questions or combo, is to explore how Carrick might use them. If Tielemans is simply to replace Mainoo, WTF. if trying with double-8, with Tielemans doing the distribution and Mainoo the running forward, then possibly yes, but not solid enough against teams with strong MF. We had seen the problem before with Carrick + Scholes, or worse, Scholes + Giggs, without Fletcher beside them. I am also happy with a 433 formation without Bruno, as nobody can play 60 games a season.
Mainoo can play various roles in midfield. Casemiro and Mainoo were both playing like 6/8 hybrids. Cas dropping deep to screen and Kobbie dropping deep to progress the ball.
We got Tielemans as a Casemiro replacement and Santos as an upgrade on Ugarte.
I‘m assuming Mainoo and Tielemans will start games most often, while Santos can replace either of them.
Tielemans won the most tackles in the Villa team out of the regular starters (Garcia actually top but played 84 mins...) ahead of Kamara who used to play CB and Onana, and obviously the rest of the team and the same amount of tackles as Elliot Anderson and Caicedo
He can obviously play next to Mainoo
He can obviously play next to Mainoo
In my opinion (as a Belgian), the best thing abour Tielemans is that he makes his teammates better. An awful lot of matches you will barely see him, until you look at it closely. He just makes the game fluent by short but fast passing, which creates space for his teammates and improves the team performance. His lack of speed is often covered by good positioning, so I don’t see big issues in that as well.
Having said that, I’ll have to admit that in recent years most of the matches I’ve seen from him were in the national team, so I’m looking if any Villa fans can confirm my point of view?
Having said that, I’ll have to admit that in recent years most of the matches I’ve seen from him were in the national team, so I’m looking if any Villa fans can confirm my point of view?
You are just saying this to suit our side.
I'm going to be fair in comparing this without putting bias on our side.
Tielemans vs Tonali
- Tielemans is a better passer but Tonali is better engine.
- Tielemans is more experience and captain of Belgium National team so he might have better leadership and better leadin role (debatable)
- Tielemans recently last season picked up some injuries which means he is more risk to be injury prone than Tonali.
Fernandes vs Santos
- Fernandes is better passing range and chance creator than Santos. Santos is probably better aerial duel and passing through the line than Fernandes. Their defense is about the same.
- Fernandes started 69 apperances in PL vs Santos who only started 13 apperances in PL. Fernandes showed that he had significantly more in term of top level experiences as he has more PL apperances than Santos.
- Both didn't make it to the world cup 2026 squad.
Again, this is just on paper based on overall as this discussion is discussed before the season started. Obviously, it could stay the way it is or different once the season starts.
Based on value of the transfer fees, I would say Tielemans is far better value than Tonali. While Santos's value is not exactly better value, may be just edge little bit in term of value as he only had 13 start apperances in PL so it makes sense why Fernandes who had 69 start apperances would cost much more.
So, the analysis of Santos vs Fernandes, and coming to the conclusion of "Fernandes showed that he had significantly more in term of top level experiences" counts only starts in the PL, and not just downplay, but ignore completely:
- substitute minutes in the PL (with Santos having substantial minutes from the bench)
- European experience
- all Ligue 1 appearances
I can understand downplaying those minutes because they're not as "high" a level, but to completely ignore them to come to the conclusion of "significantly more ... top level experience" is a little overboard, surely......
I mean, I know some people wants to think "Fernandes is the best prospect this summer!" and "Santos is a reserve player!". But surely some objectivity is needed at some point? As opposed to just being as 1-sided as possible? Surely playing against PSG in Ligue 1 is not a bad "top level experience" compared to starting against Wolves?
Tielemans is top player and I can't see a top player being benched other than being rested. I can even see him playing next to Mainoo in Old Trafford or against half of the PL teams. I wouldn't be surprised if Dorgu will be used as left winger if we play Tielemans and Mainoo together just to provide balance.
It depends how Carrick wants us to set up. Last season, we didn't exactly set up man to man, we set up in more discipline and compact in the 442 off the ball so you don't really need midfield with pace if this is how we set up but need more intelligence who understand with positioning play and off ball movement.
It depends how Carrick wants us to set up. Last season, we didn't exactly set up man to man, we set up in more discipline and compact in the 442 off the ball so you don't really need midfield with pace if this is how we set up but need more intelligence who understand with positioning play and off ball movement.
Just the first pre-season game, but looks like we'll be setting up similarily off the ball this year too. A 442 kinda shape, staying compact.
First of all, I can't include a Ligue 1 or Portugese league because we are playing in EPL. The top league is always been EPL and La Liga. Players who have PL experience will always cost more and can have the advantages as they have adapted to the league.
Have you try to include the European comp and PL subs minutes and you realise it makes no difference? The sub apperances lacks of context as players will have less minutes to show what they can do or players were only brought on for tactical changes which might also restrict what the player can do, it has lot of variety factors, hence why it is not suitable to use for comparison of two players. If you add the European comp experience and minutes of PL, Fernandes still has significantly more minutes than Santos in PL.
Well, when a person says "I'm going to be fair in comparing this", I'd be thinking someone would be a little bit fairer.
First, when added altogether (used an AI so someone please correct me if I'm wrong), across the last 2 seasons:
Fernandes: 6156
Santos: 5488
Just last season, total minutes:
Fernandes: 2937
Santos: 2379
So after including "the European comp and PL subs minutes", I definitely don't "realise it makes no difference".
And yes, I completely agree that "The top league is always been EPL and La Liga. Players who have PL experience will always cost more and can have the advantages as they have adapted to the league." But I think it's unfair and biased to use that to ignore completely appearances in other leagues.
I can accept: he played a lot and played well in France, which is helpful but not as useful as PL minutes.
But to ignore it completely would be the same as saying: "Toti Gomes is definitively a better defender than Marquinhos and Alessandro Buongiorno".
See below what I see your points as unfair and why I excluded them originally.
Point 1: Comparing Ligue 1 with PL, 2 complete different league in term of style and level so it would not be fair. Hence I exclude it.
Point 2: Comparing players who earnt his minutes based on coming on from the bench, while the other one earnt it playing 90 minutes or more than 60 minutes would not be fair. Hence why I exclude the sub apperances/minutes.
Point 3: I guess these subs minutes and UCL minutes are unfair as somehow you managed to increase Santos minutes while reduce Fernandes minutes. Hence why the best barometer to use to compare both players are the PL starting apperances which indicate who has better top league experience or more PL proven (see below).
It's unfair that you even reduced Fernandes last season minutes which shown on whoscored as 3027 mins but you reduced it to 2937 mins (You reduced it by 90 minutes) see below.
https://www.whoscored.com/players/447231/history/mateus-fernandes
It's unfair that you even increased Santos minutes as Santos only had 307 UCL minutes + 1256 PL mins last season which total is 1563 mins but somehow you got it as 2379 mins.
https://www.whoscored.com/players/451236/history/andrey-santos
So yeah like I mentioned before it makes no difference if you actually do what I said include the European experience and PL subs minutes.
And you know what is even more unfair in all of these, the fact you decided to prolong Santos discussion in the Tielemans thread with some false minutes.
I suggest you to move this to Santos thread the next time.Based on transfer values we are way better off with Santos+Tielemans than MF+Tonali.
We have seen what long contracts and overpaying can do to your finances, Spurs is taking a gamble with splurging like this.
We can strengthen the team in other positions, so the fair comparison will be more like:
Santos+Tielemans+X vs MF+Tonali.
We have seen what long contracts and overpaying can do to your finances, Spurs is taking a gamble with splurging like this.
We can strengthen the team in other positions, so the fair comparison will be more like:
Santos+Tielemans+X vs MF+Tonali.
See below what I see your points as unfair and why I excluded them originally.
Point 1: Comparing Ligue 1 with PL, 2 complete different league in term of style and level so it would not be fair. Hence I exclude it.
Point 2: Comparing players who earnt his minutes based on coming on from the bench, while the other one earnt it playing 90 minutes or more than 60 minutes would not be fair. Hence why I exclude the sub apperances/minutes.
Point 3: I guess these subs minutes and UCL minutes are unfair as somehow you managed to increase Santos minutes while reduce Fernandes minutes. Hence why the best barometer to use to compare both players are the PL starting apperances which indicate who has better top league experience or more PL proven (see below).
It's unfair that you even reduced Fernandes last season minutes which shown on whoscored as 3027 mins but you reduced it to 2937 mins (You reduced it by 90 minutes) see below.
https://www.whoscored.com/players/447231/history/mateus-fernandes
It's unfair that you even increased Santos minutes as Santos only had 307 UCL minutes + 1256 PL mins last season which total is 1563 mins but somehow you got it as 2379 mins.
https://www.whoscored.com/players/451236/history/andrey-santos
So yeah like I mentioned before it makes no difference if you actually do what I said include the European experience and PL subs minutes.
And you know what is even more unfair in all of these, the fact you decided to prolong Santos discussion in the Tielemans thread with some false minutes.
First, I do apologise for the wrong numbers (I just told the AI to get their total minutes across the 2 seasons).
And like you said, shouldn't be talking about Santos in the Tielemans thread. So last message on this from me.
But by your logic, Kvaratskhelia is worse than Hwang Hee-chan because Kvaratskhelia has 0 PL and La Liga minutes. Right, brilliant discussion.
The fact you used Kvaratskhelia and Hwang as comparison in this argument shows that you still don't understand the point I made. I hate to go circle, so let me requote my post to remind you.
You see above? I used overall combined of ability, experienced, and fitness. I didn't just talk about PL apperances. You need to use multiple context to compare players who are better.
isn't Santos significantly better defensively?
Said I leave this discussion, so I'll do just that.
But still think that excluding all sub, cup and Ligue 1 appearances doesn't exactly say "fair". (downplay, yes. Exclude automatically? Whatever floats your boat
But still think that excluding all sub, cup and Ligue 1 appearances doesn't exactly say "fair". (downplay, yes. Exclude automatically? Whatever floats your boat