It depends in which aspects I think, they are better in certain defensive aspects. So I just make it as overall combined they are about the same on paper.
Youri Tielemans | Signed | #18
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I'm saying it because I was concerned we wouldn't be successful in buying CMs who are good passers, and I am relieved we have been able to for incredibly reasonable fees.
I don't care if Tonali has a good engine. 100 million should get you a lot more than a good engine, and you can get a good engine for much less. Tielemans is just a better footballer and he cost 65 million less than Tonali. If we'd have spent 100 million on Tonali I think it would have been a very poor use of our transfer funds (and I posted to that effect long before the Tielemans deal happened - it's not a signing I was ever in favour of).
I don't care about the number of appearances for Fernandes and Santos. One was playing behind Caicedo and Enzo. The other was playing for West Ham. It's just not a meaningful comparison. Sure, Santos has less PL experience, but he also cost far less (especially when you take wages into account). I also don't care who made it into world cup squads. There are lots of players who didn't make it into WC squads who would be good purchases for us. Such things don't really factor in to whether I think players were a smart purchase or not, even if they mean something for your "on paper" comparisons.
Yeah.. that’s why I said that ‘’you are just saying this to suit our side’’ because you only took the aspects that you care and what you like. You also didn’t give enough context how you judged them in your original post.
As did you.
I can provide whatever context I like. As usual you seem to be looking for an argument when there’s none to be had.
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I'm looking for discussion not looking for an argument. The fact you are thinking that I'm looking for an argument shows that you think your opinion is the only thing that matter. When you made a claim which players better with lack of context in your original post then there are things to discuss.
It's just such an unexpected signing.....
Its been a while now and I still just can't get excited about it.
I think Tielemans has been a great player - good technically. But for me - just cannot get excited about it - I think his fitness will be an issue - he's got no pace whatsoever and looked very sluggish when i've seen him last year and in the world cup. I know he's not old old, but for a premier league central midfielder your engine is key. Tielemans wont track the runners and he'll only get less mobile over the course of his contract.
Weird signing for me
Its been a while now and I still just can't get excited about it.
I think Tielemans has been a great player - good technically. But for me - just cannot get excited about it - I think his fitness will be an issue - he's got no pace whatsoever and looked very sluggish when i've seen him last year and in the world cup. I know he's not old old, but for a premier league central midfielder your engine is key. Tielemans wont track the runners and he'll only get less mobile over the course of his contract.
Weird signing for me
I suddenly like him a lot more. Hopefully that means he s pretty grounded. I honestly don't know enough about him in terms of character.
Should you be excited about every transfer? Pending further movement, he may turn out to be a squad player who makes 20-25 appearances a season, in which case you have the exactly correct level of excitement.
Morale is a bit low around the club in terms of transfers after priced out for Anderson and Fernandes. Looking forward to seeing the guy make his debut, however we do still need that athletic DM alongside him or Santos in bigger games or the CL KO games provided we get in top 8.
Starting to look like the bargain of the century but I have to be honest, there’s going to come a point where we have to start accepting where the he market is at and pay the price.
The thing I like is Carrick was a top midfielder and he knows what we need in midfield. Now he went out and got significant upgrades. I've been asking for a midfield upgrade (not aging midfielders) for a decade and it took a former midfielder to finally do it right.
Casemiro had a very good season. However, I don't think many of you realize that his immobility hurt our defense in so many ways and resulted in goals. Yes, he read the game well, but if your DM can't win a good share of 50/50 balls that puts tremendous pressure on a defense. Our signings should make our defense and passing game so much better.
Casemiro had a very good season. However, I don't think many of you realize that his immobility hurt our defense in so many ways and resulted in goals. Yes, he read the game well, but if your DM can't win a good share of 50/50 balls that puts tremendous pressure on a defense. Our signings should make our defense and passing game so much better.
If we turned around and because we managed to find some cm bargains we are able to get a barcola or someone late in the window I will accept it as shrewd business.
Right now I think he’s an excellent pick up for the price but we 100% are shopping at B&M opposed to marks and Spencer in this window. Let’s see if it saves us the money for picky bits at waitrose.
https://www.manutd.com/en/news/belgium-duo-arrive-at-carrington-senne-lammens-youri-tielemans
He and Lammens arrive at Carrington today. Looking forward to watch him play against Atletico this weekend
He and Lammens arrive at Carrington today. Looking forward to watch him play against Atletico this weekend
I doubt the big issue is that our new manament refuses to accept the current market. It is more that Woodward with friends acted like we had a money printing machine at Carrington. It has, as far as i understand, put us in a situation where we need to slow down a bit to let the financial situation catch up. Not easy to do when there is a constant need to try and improve the squad and keep up with the other teams.
I do think we could dig up quite big bids if we felt the right opportunity came along.
On topic, can’t wait to see him play for us, him + Santos looks like a good combo, on paper at least.
He won't be involved until PSG on 8 Aug
Why would he sign for us to go from a starter to a squad player at 29?
He's going to start. We may yet make a 3rd midfield signing - not guaranteed, but possible and if so it'll likely be the cheapest one yet.
Not necessarily. The players that are going for huge money are not world class superstars and there will likely be other names at their level, or above, over the coming years. The key is finding those players before they go to mid table clubs, have a deecnt season and get a 50-100m price tag slapped on them.
There is no reason Andrey Santos, for example, can't be better than half as good as Elliot Anderson/Tonali who cost over double his price.
I’m hoping he turns out better than half as good as those players despite price tags
Hoping he gets some mins against PSG next Saturday
Before Carrick ever arrived it was clear both that midfield would be the main focus for recruitment this summer and that our manager has much less influence on who we target/sign than used to be the case.
Carrick isn't the one driving these decisions, just as Amorim wasn't before him. We've switched to a less manager-led structure for a reason.
Engine isn't the key for any midfielder in any league. Technique and football intelligence will always be more important for a midfielder than anything else. It's why Scholes was one of the best this league has ever seen, and would be just as successful if not more so in today's game.
I’m hoping he turns out better than half as good as those players despite price tags
So do I but I was just making a point on value.Do you know this first hand? I have to believe that every manager has some say in transfers.
I think every year for the past 10 they said midfield would be addressed and it never was solved.
Also reminds me of a clip where Ole is saying to Keane on the topic of Fred "they needed his legs in midfield"
Keane was unimpressed
I think one of the reasons why engine is even less important now is because we have so many subs. A player can be great for 60 mins, start to drop off for 5-10 mins and you sub them off at 70 mins with the game already in the bag. A player with fresh legs can come on. Before you'd be sacrificing 1 of 3 subs for that, now its just 1 of 5
I think a player who will run a lot with a good engine can be useful, but probably for a 3rd or 4th choice midfielder. In the first team you still want specialists who are great at doing specific jobs - a more offensive player who will get the ball from defence to the wingers and striker and a more defensive player who will challenge players with the ball and come away with it plenty. When you have those 2 players maybe a runner is a good for specific matches or if you want to switch to a 3 in midfield and have all 3.
It has been widely reported that recruitment is run by Wilcox with input from others such as Vivell since INEOS took charge. With that said, they have been clear that nobody will be signed that the manager does not sign off on so it seems a case of the recruitment team identifying targets and then prior to making a bid Carrick will be given the names under consideration and have the opportunity to veto or approve.
It isn't a bargain of the century, If you pay 35m for a 29 yearold in four years he'll probably be worth nothing, and you'll have to spend another 40m or more to replace him.
Spend 70m on a 23 year old in four years hell still be worth 70m probably even more,you either renew contract or sell. So bying a 29 years old cheaper is not a bargain really.
Arsenal are about to buy someone the same age for eighty million. In this market it’s an amazing deal, for sure.
Yeah welcome Youri, we don't all dismiss you like this
True.
How much did we spend on Sancho, Zirkzee, Antony, Rasmus, Mount?
All players around that mark. Not worth a where near what we paid for them after a period of time.
We signed 22 year old Antony for €95m and sold 25 year old Antony for €22m. We signed 21 year old Sancho for €85m and lost him for free. If the player doesn't succeed the buying club will not make a profit. It's hard to make a profit on a player you've spent £80m+ and indeed there are very few examples of this ever happening
Yeah I totally agree with you.
This is the thing, people honestly need to look at the investment as a whole.
We need more signings like Pogba and Sancho. Get them in at the right age and watch them values stick, or better yet, go up
Grealish is another example at City, bought him at the right age, 100m, feck all that, and with one year left on his contract, they can command that 100m still!
Mental, Youri… what a joke.
I also hated when we bought Van Der Sar and Teddy. Just not the age our club should be looking at. Fair enough, they played vital roles in Champions league finals, but feck them guys. Disgrace it is
That’s a generalisation, depends on the player in either circumstance
Pogba was 23 and we got nothing? Antony and Sancho were chunky fees and we got back a bit for Antony.
What did they cost? £240m fees plus wages?
Oh we really need language like disgrace, anyone would think this is some garbage tabloid. I am also getting a bit bloody annoyed with our two new players being made to feel they are too old or not good enough to be here. I really hope this guy sticks it to everyone of his critics on here, be glorious if they get to eat some serious humble pie.
Still annoyed that Juve totally mugged us off, even during our prime incompetence period. Letting them take him for free, twice, and they charged us £89m in tax for the pleasure of it.
A player of Tielemans ability for £35 million in this market is a bargain. Guimaraes is a similar age and level and Newcastle reportedly want £90 million.
And footballers, even young ones, are not appreciating assets. Indeed, their values often depreciate as their contracts run down, or for myriad other reasons. There’s absolutely no guarantee that if you buy a 23 year old player for £70 million you’ll be able to sell them for that much.
Hey, all of that was under Woodward. It will be different this time!