Youth Analysis

Mr. MUJAC

Manchester United Youth Historian
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I posted some youth analysis a few years back so thought it might be appropriate to bring it up to date.

This data analyses how well clubs develop their own players for the benefit of their own club. It does not include players developed, used in the first team for a few games and then sold on.

I have used the following criteria to define youth:

1. Joined the club between the ages of 15-18 (or younger). A player who has turned 18 would already be a professional and as such it is difficult to take credit for their development.
2. Players have not played first team elsewhere. If they have already played first team then the previous club has obviously deemed them 'developed' enough for their first team.
3. The player must have played at least 70 league games. This equates to around two seasons of league football and as such the player can be regarded as a regular. I have not included cup games as clubs use the League Cup in particular to give loads of juniors a run out without really testing them in league football.

The following table outlines how many youth products each Premier League club has brought through their youth system.

The club with the highest number of youth products brought through since 1946 are at the top of the table with the exact number in brackets.

1. Manchester United (57)
2. Chelsea (45)
3. West Ham (44)
4. Man City (43)
5. Swansea (41)
6. Sunderland (40)
7. Stoke City (39)
8. Spurs (37)
9. Everton (35)
10. Arsenal (34)
Fulham (34)
12. Southampton (33)
13. Aston Villa (32)
14. QPR (30)
15. Newcastle (25)
Norwich City (25)
West Brom (25)
18. Liverpool (23)
19. Reading (19)
20. Wigan (10)

The data shows some particularly interesting results.

Firstly you must take into account that for those clubs who have been in the Premier League or First Division for the majority of those 60+ years (Liverpool, Everton, Arsenal, Manchester United, Tottenham Hotspur)...they have had to develop players of a much higher level than Wigan or Reading who needed players historically for the lower leagues. And yet Reading and Wigan have terrible results

In other words it is harder to find and develop players to play in the 'Top Four' clubs and in Europe than anywhere else. Therefore the results of United in particular are even more impressive.

And of course, those of Liverpool are terrible in relation.

Newcastle United have predominantly been a buying club and it's not hard to see that their strategy has been largely unsuccessful for 60 years. You would think they might have tried youth at some point.

Finally, the much lauded Arsenal Youth system, is more about buying young players already developed at other clubs, particularly abroad, rather than developing their own.

To me one thing becomes clear, putting a youth system in place is just as much about developing a culture and philosophy as it is formal infrastructure. Many clubs just don't have that culture.

Young players will always be drawn to Old Trafford because they will get a chance...50% of all first team players have come through the youth system.

And that is what makes Manchester United unique.
 

ArmchairCritic

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Your work on United's youth is always much appreciated, no suprises with the findings of this analysis.
 

RyanGoggs

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I suppose if you take into account the young players we have released who have still made a career for themselves in the top flight it is pretty remarkable. Having said that, as A bigger club we probably have a better chance of picking up the top talents. In contrast we also have to contend with the 90 minute rule.

I think my point is that there are many many external factors to take into account also...
 

Chabon

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I suppose if you take into account the young players we have released who have still made a career for themselves in the top flight it is pretty remarkable.
When the squad lists came out the other week I had a quick check to see how many United academy players there were on the books of other clubs, and I spotted a dozen. Neville, Gibson, Simpson, Shawcross, Fox, Tate, Jones, Richardson, Bardsley, Brown, Campbell and O'Shea. That was just going from memory, I suppose a couple of the lads I've never heard of from Reading and Southampton might be ours too.
 
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Where would Crewe fit in there if you have that information (don't worry if you don't), as there's is one of the most heralded in the lower leagues, suspect it would be higher than a fair few of the Prem teams
 

Drainy

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Its funny. If I were to have guessed before seeing the results I would have near enough swapped Liverpool and Chelsea's positions.

Suppose that's my premier league era bias.
 

Jimy_Hills_Chin

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To see who is producing in the big money Premier League era, the era that is relevant now! The whole home grown player dynamic in football has changed with the influx of foreign players, it would be interesting to see who has stuck to their roots the most, and the least.
 

Mr. MUJAC

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To see who is producing in the big money Premier League era, the era that is relevant now! The whole home grown player dynamic in football has changed with the influx of foreign players, it would be interesting to see who has stuck to their roots the most, and the least.
You don't see many trends over 15 years but here goes

7 - Aston Villa,
6 - West Ham
5 - Liverpool
4 - Manchester United, Manchester City, Everton, Stoke City, Sunderland, Newcastle, Norwich City,
3 - Southampton, Arsenal,
2 - Tottenham Hotspur, Swansea City,
1 - Chelsea, Wigan Athletic, West Brom, QPR
0 - Reading, Fulham,
 

Jimy_Hills_Chin

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You don't see many trends over 15 years but here goes

7 - Aston Villa,
6 - West Ham
5 - Liverpool
4 - Manchester United, Manchester City, Everton, Stoke City, Sunderland, Newcastle, Norwich City,
3 - Southampton, Arsenal,
2 - Tottenham Hotspur, Swansea City,
1 - Chelsea, Wigan Athletic, West Brom, QPR
0 - Reading, Fulham,
You do see trends, to be fair, Chelsea have gone from being one of the best producers of home grown players to being one of the worst. We have also become less prolific. The results are kind of expected though.
 

Mr. MUJAC

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You do see trends, to be fair, Chelsea have gone from being one of the best producers of home grown players to being one of the worst. We have also become less prolific. The results are kind of expected though.
On the contrary...with Evans, Giggs, Scholes, Fletcher, Brown, O'Shea, Neville, holding down regular spots during the last 15 years....there were no places available for new youth players to come in...

Which is why you have to look at the big picture...

In the same period that Aston Villa have produced 7 players that played for Villa...we have produced internationals of the quality of Rossi and Pique while Shawcross was on the brink of England call up's and has played continously in the Stoke team. Others like Richardson, Campbell, Simpson, Bardsley, Higginbotham, Gibson have become established premiership players.

If you look at a relatively short time period it doesn't always tell you a true picture. We could be producing the best 22 players in the world...but you can only play 11 at one time...so the other 11 move on. It doesn't mean our system has declined in any way.

Your comments about Chelsea are fair as they also have very few youth products playing with other clubs.

United have had the best policy in the history of the game but we still go in cycles...in two years time Welbeck and Cleverly will come into play...plus we have the lads from 2011.

I'll do the analysis in the future and see what happens.

Every club has one good period....doing it consistently over decades is what differentiates good policies from great ones.
 

Jimy_Hills_Chin

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On the contrary...with Evans, Giggs, Scholes, Fletcher, Brown, O'Shea, Neville, holding down regular spots during the last 15 years....there were no places available for new youth players to come in...
In my opinion, from 1946, is too broad a picture, that is not appreciative of cultural changes within the game, and those changes have been radical in that time frame. Perhaps a more telling assessment of the effectiveness of recent English academies would be the number of Premier League players produced since the start of the EPL era, with a player needing over 100 top flight appearances to qualify for considerartion.
 

Mr. MUJAC

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In my opinion, from 1946, is too broad a picture, that is not appreciative of cultural changes within the game, and those changes have been radical in that time frame. Perhaps a more telling assessment of the effectiveness of recent English academies would be the number of Premier League players produced since the start of the EPL era, with a player needing over 100 top flight appearances to qualify for considerartion.
Personally I don't see why is that a more telling assessment? 70 or 100...just reduces the numbers?
 

Jimy_Hills_Chin

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Personally I don't see why is that a more telling assessment? 70 or 100...just reduces the numbers?
Like you say, a team might produce more players than it can realistically field, for a number of reasons. If we look at how many solid Premier League players that a club produces, I feel that it tells you more about their academy than just looking at how many first team players they produce.
 

mo0

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You don't see many trends over 15 years but here goes

7 - Aston Villa,
6 - West Ham
5 - Liverpool
4 - Manchester United, Manchester City, Everton, Stoke City, Sunderland, Newcastle, Norwich City,
3 - Southampton, Arsenal,
2 - Tottenham Hotspur, Swansea City,
1 - Chelsea, Wigan Athletic, West Brom, QPR
0 - Reading, Fulham,
just to confirm:

only 60 players have come through academies for players in the Prem right now (in the past 15 years) ?
 

SkeppyRed

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You don't see many trends over 15 years but here goes

7 - Aston Villa,
6 - West Ham
5 - Liverpool
4 - Manchester United, Manchester City, Everton, Stoke City, Sunderland, Newcastle, Norwich City,
3 - Southampton, Arsenal,
2 - Tottenham Hotspur, Swansea City,
1 - Chelsea, Wigan Athletic, West Brom, QPR
0 - Reading, Fulham,
Great OP Mr. MUJAC, but in regards to this post I may be wrong here and have misread the criteria but aren't United on 10 (Scholes, Giggs, Beckham, Butt, Brown, O'shea, Fletcher, Evans, Neville x2) Unless its just players who have made their first team debuts in the last 15 years of course.

I agree with JHC that another interesting count up could be one for players produced by each club since the premier league began who have gone on to play more than 70 PL games. This would be a better indicator at who has been producing the most players in the modern era. I suspect United would be right up there but would also be interested to see how much acclaimed academies such as Arsenal and West ham get on.
 
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Crewe have had 28 youth players make 70+ league appearances...
Thanks. Thought it might have been a little more, but for a side lower down the divisions where it's less glamorous to sign for, that is still quite impressive
 

Mr. MUJAC

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Great OP Mr. MUJAC, but in regards to this post I may be wrong here and have misread the criteria but aren't United on 10 (Scholes, Giggs, Beckham, Butt, Brown, O'shea, Fletcher, Evans, Neville x2) Unless its just players who have made their first team debuts in the last 15 years of course.

I agree with JHC that another interesting count up could be one for players produced by each club since the premier league began who have gone on to play more than 70 PL games. This would be a better indicator at who has been producing the most players in the modern era. I suspect United would be right up there but would also be interested to see how much acclaimed academies such as Arsenal and West ham get on.
The question was in 'the 15 years still with their clubs'...of course we have had more as you outline.

You can cut and paste this data any way you want....every ten years...every 20 years...whatever...

I will let some of you guys do the additional analysis...;-)
 

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