Which one did Bale singlehandedly win for Real? The 4-1 against Atletico or the 3-1 against Liverpool?
Zidane sack watch - 19/20
- Thread starter JoaquinJoaquin
- Start date
Bale was a bench player in 2 of Zidane's 3 CL winning campaigns.
Yes he scored in the 2018 final but he did nothing else the whole comp.
Yes he scored in the 2018 final but he did nothing else the whole comp.
Bale has been "yet another piece" in our recent success, but he's been below Ronaldo, Modric, Ramos, Marcelo and Kroos in helping us reach that. I'd say his effect has been in the same tier as Carvajal, Benzema, Varane etc., though he has played fewer matches in the same period.
Bale's record in CL finals specifically is incredible though, he was better than Ronaldo in 3 of the 4 CL finals they played together (2017 being the only exception). Only Ramos was as influential as Bale in those finals.
He scored in 2 finals. Was actually one of the best in 2014.
I very much doubt it Real would have it as easy as they did against Liverpool if it wasn't for Bale and Karius too
He was their main man in both of those finals
He was devastatingly horrible in the 2014 final. The goal saved him from getting crucified by fans and media the following day
Still, number of CL wins of the current madrid side pre-Bale=0. With Bale, 4. And he was a key contributor in 3 of those
Still, number of CL wins of the current madrid side pre-Bale=0. With Bale, 4. And he was a key contributor in 3 of those
Which some people here seems to be forgetting
OK? Finals are pretty important but they're still one game, and if look back at his goals in finals, the team was never in a losing position when he scored them, so at worst it'd have gone to ET or penalties, but as I said they're still pretty important and that's what pushes Bale to the same tier as Benzema, Carvajal etc., had it not been for that he'd have been below that due to major injury issues and inconsistency in general, more so than the others.
Bale scored those goals though. Not someone else. There's no guarantee we would have won those games anyways without his goals. His goals won us those finals. He was our best player in Milan as well. He was generally fantastic throughout in both 2014 and 2016.
Sure, we won those CL as a team. Bale was part of that team, and a key contributor to 3 of those trophies
Where did I say that he didn't? He did, but finals are one game, and in that one game we weren't in a losing position thanks to a number of players, Bale being yet another one of them. One would be hard-pressed to include Bale in top 3 most important players in any year since he's been here. Maybe in 2014, and that's about it. Overall though, he's definitely below a couple of figures whom you should know better.
Oh absolutely, he does not compare to Cristiano or Sergio. But it's wrong to minimize his contributions to "finals are just one game". To begin with, he was definitely one of our biggest and most important contributors in both 2014 and 2016, throughout both seasons. It's only in 2018 were you can reduce his contributions to the final. And even then, it was the friggin final. Which we won, thanks to his goals
He wasn't a consistent 100m player for us mostly because of the injuries, but let's be real, in hindsight, knowing he'd score game-winning goals in two CL finals and be our best player in another? We'd absolutely pay 100m for that
More than over rated or under rated I´d say Bale is underachieved, for fans and hierarchy, because of the injuries and for his whole attitude during his time in Madrid.
That's disrespectful to Benzema imo. Carvajal, Varane and even Kroos were replaceable parts, similar quality players could have come in to the a similar job without the system changing, Benzema wasn't. After the 4 main guys in Ronaldo, Ramos, Modric and Marcelo... Benzema was the most important. He got overcriticized by the Madrid media, he deserved some of it due to his inconsistency but his role in that team can't be underestimated.
Bale scored a couple of big goals but I think even without those goals Madrid win it regardless, both finals had turned by the time he scored the goals. First with Ramos' goal in 2014 and then with Salah's injury in 2018. The team became a lot better once they replaced him with Isco, that's the main reason Bale's reputation fell. After the 2014 CL win, he was in no way one of the important pieces to the overall system Madrid played, more like a cherry on top of the cake.
Think Bale's case is a more extreme case of Eto'o at Barcelona, crucial goals in 2 different CL finals, injury problems with some months of excellence inbetween and in both cases it was never their team. Eto'o played in Ronaldinho's Barcelona in 2006 and in Pep's Barcelona with Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, etc in 2009... then both teams reached new heights without them (Madrid 2017 and Barca 2011). Main difference is Bale got the full trust of the club to become the main man last season and it ended in a complete disaster while Eto'o left only to win the treble with Inter.
Again it's like you're reading someone else's post? I said in the same tier as the likes of Benzema, Carvajal etc., not Nacho and Lucas Vasquez! And I think that's pretty fair to his contribution over the said years, though the other guys had more consistency.
Look, even at 2014, which was his best year, one could argue that beside Ronaldo and Ramos, who definitely had a better year, he was at best equal to Modric and Di Maria for the 3rd place, the rest of his years though? He wouldn't even enter top 3.
Benzema has definitely had a better "career" at Madrid when all is said and done, but we were comparing their contribution and achievements over that successful period. Though the gap is widening.
I disagree. 2014 i would say Cris, Di Maria, Bale/Ramos/Modric
But in 15/16...when fit he was our best player outright
Di Maria was absolutely insane in 2014. I remember Schweinsteiger's comments about the game at the Allianz that year:
Schweinsteiger : "I always appreciated the game of Angel Di Maria. I remember the semi-final we lost 4-0 at home. He was the best, so difficult to stop"
https://www.marca.com/en/football/real-madrid/2019/02/05/5c599405268e3e833a8b4582.html
How? He didn't even score a goal in the entire competition... The only above average game he had in the 2016 CL was the final. He was much better in 2013/14's CL campaign than he was in 2015/16 with Zidane.
I do remember him being great under Benitez though.
Ronaldo,Ramos,Marcelo,Benzema,Modric,Kroos,Navas and Carvajal were all more essential to Madrid's CL success than Bale under Zidane.
Di Maria was something else altogether in his laat season at Madrid. Then the idiots got rid of him for the next shiny toy (they still havent rid themselves of funnily enough). Oh the excitement when Di Maria signed in the foolish expectation we would be getting that player.
Oh, the stories about that summer
A window into Florentino's planning:
"Presi, what's this about james? We're not signing him are we? I'd have no idea where to even put him on this team! We really don't need him"
"Don't worry coach, it's just papers bs"
"Ok good"
....a week later
"Presi....please tell me we aren't really signing james. I already told you, he's not a player we need and he doesn't even fit with what we have"
"Don't worry coach, as i told you, it's just the papers making stuff up, we're not signing him"
....3 days later
https://www.realmadrid.com/noticias/2014/07/comunicado-oficial-james-rodriguez
I am going to say something unpopular here but Real Madrid won three Champions Leagues after Di Maria left.
He was good but not THAT good. People remember his last season at Madrid but he had a very inconsistent career there before that. The fee United paid back at the day was quite high.
If anything I think Alonso leaving had a bigger impact that season. Or rather Alonso not being replaced.
He was good but not THAT good. People remember his last season at Madrid but he had a very inconsistent career there before that. The fee United paid back at the day was quite high.
If anything I think Alonso leaving had a bigger impact that season. Or rather Alonso not being replaced.
I think the fee payed for Di Maria was inflated somewhat by Woodward's ridiculous statement that summer when he said United could "do things in the transfer window no other club could do". Ever since that day clubs have slapped a 10mil premium on any player we have tried to buy. On the other hand, Di Maria did get 22 assist in all competitions that year, which are great numbers by any standard. I do think if it hadn't been for Van Gaal's tactics and Di Maria's house being broken into he would have been great for us.
This. He stole a living off that assist in the final.
just to add to your point he actually has 4 champions leagues
Di Maria was always an unpredictable winger capable of moments of brilliance but never consistent enough for a top club. After a few seasons at Benfica and Madrid, it looked like he would never fulfill his potential. Until he moved to the left of a midfield 3, and he was sensational that season. In the top 5 players in Europe.
Yep. Maybe slight hyperbole there but he’s had one outstanding season an a bunch of mediocre ones. He’s got a lot of talent. That goal he scored against Leicester for example was fecking superb. But he’s a flake.
He had a very good season in general.
Hey fellas, can we steer this discussion back on track?
Yes.
Game vs Valladolid at the Bernabeu in 4 hours time. Easy on paper, but who knows. Should keep Zidane safe for now.
Will be interesting to see if James will get minutes
The biggest mystery of all. He seemingly traded legendary status for what? Money? Of course, if he somehow manages to win the title this year he can write his own ticket.
Guessing he'll stick with 4 3 3 and same system and team from last game. Having ripped all pre season work up with Hazard injured, looked good even with 10 men.
Love for the club
Also money, but mostly, the club needed him and promised him the world
I used to think that, but now I wonder. I don’t doubt his love for the club, but question his loyalty, since he bailed on them when he learned Ronaldo was being moved on. This time around he’s been at odds with Perez over Bale all summer. Clearly he wanted him gone and someone else brought in. That hasn’t happened. Now he has to fashion something out of a squad that isn’t to his liking. If they promised him the world, they sure changed their minds quickly. I’m sure we’ll learn more about his true motives as the season progresses.
He bailed long before there was anything between cristiano and juventus and had decided to bail in February, after losing to leganes in the cup
As to the team not being to his liking, he got everything he wanted bar pogba, bale and james
Valladolid was disappointing. The game reinforced something that's been said ad nauseum - the summer signings were 4 back-ups and 1 starter (who is injured). Just not good enough. It's not like this kind of game was not seen last year. Lots of the ball and loads of oohs and aahs, but precious little in tangible result for it. Same players, same results. What should be more worrisome is how Vinicius played. Didn't look like he's had a year of playing decently behind him. No threat. Whether his form is what sees him on the bench or whether his being pushed down has dented confidence, who knows?
On balance, over pre-season and the first two games, the weakest link remains down the right side. Carvajal was culpable for the goal and the poorest of the starting 11 - just like Odriozola was the weakest link last week. No options either, right now. Ahead, Zidane is having to start Bale - which says it all, really. There are positives of course. Played better than in pre-season, but just imagine this game without James and Bale. If Zizou had his way, they'd be gone by now. The balance of the team isn't quite there, in my opinion and the squad options are not good enough. Will take a minor miracle to win the league.
On Zidane personally, am quite impressed that he started James and Bale. May not like them, but definitely got decent performances from both.
On balance, over pre-season and the first two games, the weakest link remains down the right side. Carvajal was culpable for the goal and the poorest of the starting 11 - just like Odriozola was the weakest link last week. No options either, right now. Ahead, Zidane is having to start Bale - which says it all, really. There are positives of course. Played better than in pre-season, but just imagine this game without James and Bale. If Zizou had his way, they'd be gone by now. The balance of the team isn't quite there, in my opinion and the squad options are not good enough. Will take a minor miracle to win the league.
On Zidane personally, am quite impressed that he started James and Bale. May not like them, but definitely got decent performances from both.
It was more first half of 17/18 than last season
He started in Vigo. No idea why he didn't start saturday. He's young and clearly needs to feel his manager's confidence and not too much reslonsibility
He's also still a raw and unrefined player and he doesn't really know how to play on the right. But we signed Hazard....seriously Florentino's entered his decadent phase. The sooner he's ousted the better
Kroos was culpable for the goal and the right wing worked just fine until Zidane put Vinicius there
If Zidane got his way Pogba would be here. Also, Asensio's injury was a huge blow. Doesn't help that we also currently have hazard, brahim and rodrygo injured, jovic suffered an injury in pre-season, plus mendy is injured and now James as well....
A great season from Hazard, and a not so good season by barcelona. Minor miracle? Maybe, we'll see
No, he really wouldn't this summer
I said he's been shunted down the pecking order - which he clearly has. Wasn't about the Vigo game et al.
He does need to feel the confidence from Zidane - but Zidane also has to balance the need to win with the need to indulge the odd blip from a raw but very talented ("potential") kid.
The Hazard stories were there last summer as well and the courtship has been longer than a year. Zidane has always wanted Hazard since at least 2017, so am unsure about why you'd lay this at Flo's door. Flo has his flaws and eccentricities, but the Hazard signing is more about giving Zidane a player he's coveted for several years.
Eh? Kroos lost the ball, but Dani was out of position and not holding formation. That's criminal when you're holding on to a hard-earned 1-0 lead with just minutes left to play and the opposition has suddenly started a very good high press in search of an equaliser. If he'd held position, he'd have been able to snuff out the chance. A creative player can always lose the ball. The defender that's not in position has to be held accountable, specially in this context.
The right side was fine - with Bale. My point exactly - since Zidane wanted Bale gone, who would we have been seeing if he'd had his way?
If he built his plans assuming United would bend over and give him Pogba, he's not only a fool but a very naive one at that.
Of the injuries, only Hazard and Asensio actually hit the first-team plan - there too, it's arguable that playing Vinicius on the left should really be the obvious way since he did well there last season anyway. That leaves the Asensio injury. Here, I'd argue that Zidane was silly not to sign a RW. Unless he was betting on Asensio staying fit and playing every single game, he was always going to face this situation. Now imagine if there was no Bale. You're actually putting the James injury down as an issue - but Zidane wanted him sold too. How many holes was Pogba going to fill exactly?
Hazard is a lot of things - but "prolific goal scorer", he is not. He also does tend to blow hot and cold and will have to have a season far better than any he's ever had for him to make the difference. And yes, Barca are led by a completely incompetent manager, so expecting issues there is reasonable - but they still have Messi and both Griezmann and Neymar (increasingly likely) can win games with moments of brilliance too. Then there is Atletico who looked surprisingly good in pre-season. Zidane is playing largely with the same players he struggled to get more out of last season. He's going to have to get a heck of a lot more out of them to make up the gap. One Hazard is not going to make up that entire gap by himself.