Zidane sack watch - 19/20

giorno

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Not too long ago, a club with a creaky defence and dysfunctional attack thought similarly - that Pogba was the missing piece...
That club didn't have sergio ramos, varane, marcelo, casemito, kroos, modric, hazard and benzema
Let's just say that Pogba will definitely improve any midfield he enters, but isn't a magical fix.
He would have been, for us. Because he wouldn't play alone, he would play on a team that's missing exactly someone like him to be competitive

He's not the all-in-one metronome that this Madrid side would need.
Good thing we don't need an all-in-one metronome. We need a box-to-box midfielder who can add pace, a physical presence, improve our transition and bring 10-15 goals to the table


On the midfield, go over the squad. It's madness to see the sheer volume of forwards and the paucity of the midfield. The official Madrid site lists 10 forwards and just 6 midfielders - including James and Isco. That's not balanced. Zizou wants shot of James - but surely it would just have been smarter to leave out some forward and keep Llorente, than to carry this ragged mess?
We have too many attackers. We need 6 of those and 6 midfielders. We currently need 1 more midfielder(because Zidane doesn't consider James) and to move on at least two forwards(which we are trying to do, both Mariano and Bale are on the market)

Power - not sure what you can do to curtail a manager's power, short of sacking him.
He came back with the kind of power over transfers only one other manager has ever been given at our club. But the thing is he accepted to come back on that condition, so Florentino should not go back on his word

More than motivation, I think Zizou just needs to work on getting over his own ego and self-pity at not getting Pogba. Not every manager gets every demand met - specially when it involves a big-money transfer from a similarly-rich club that has no need to sell. "But Flo promised..." is not an excuse.
This i agree with, he needs to get over whatever issues he has with Bale and James and think more about the club's own needs. I'll point out that he hasn't said a peep about transfers so far. He hasn't complained about not getting a player or wanting a player out. The only public issue was when Bale was in talks with the chinese and he stupidly said he hoped the issue could be solve quickly with him leaving

Of course It's not all motivation.It's delusional to think that he won 3 champions motivating players but his attitude was different.
More willing to deal with the players available. Accept that you are a coach and not a manager, that's what I mean with taking away power.
Yes, with Pogba he went a bit crazy. I understand that he wants a midfielder of that profile but should know that the club don't pay those amounts for midfielders
Zidane accepted the job on certain conditions, and if 2 months in he's suddenly feeling like the club has changed those conditions then he's right to be angry. If Pogba is THE keystone of his project, and that was made clear when he accepted the job, then he's not gone crazy, rather Florentino promised him something and then promptly went back on his word

Granted, if his entire project hinged on signing one player from Manchester United, with no alternatives, then that's a problem in itself...just goes to show what a mess we are behind the scenes.

Said this before, but we're a massive club that perpetually lives in chaos, straddling the line between brilliance and meltdown. Our very worst enemies are stability and success :lol:
 

Shamana

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Jesus, what a coward. Runs away as soon as the going gets tough. He knew when Ronaldo left Real wouldn't be competative anymore so he jumped ship. Now he knows Real won't be anywhere near barca despite all the new acquisitions (including one of the best players in the world in Hazard) so he's thinking of leaving again under the pretence of not getting pogba.
This. Because he hasn't got all his toys, he is already thinking about quitting. It's worse than mourinho in his last season with us. Look at Poch as a manager who can deliver despite being completely hamstringed. Zidane is already a managerial great for winning 3 CL's in a row, but he's showing he can't face up to adversity. When United was being outdone by Chelsea and Arsenal he rose to the challenge. When City was on the rise, he rose to the challenge. Both Zidane and Guardiola have shown they jump ship when things are not going their way.
 

carvajal

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That club didn't have sergio ramos, varane, marcelo, casemito, kroos, modric, hazard and benzema

He would have been, for us. Because he wouldn't play alone, he would play on a team that's missing exactly someone like him to be competitive


Good thing we don't need an all-in-one metronome. We need a box-to-box midfielder who can add pace, a physical presence, improve our transition and bring 10-15 goals to the table



We have too many attackers. We need 6 of those and 6 midfielders. We currently need 1 more midfielder(because Zidane doesn't consider James) and to move on at least two forwards(which we are trying to do, both Mariano and Bale are on the market)


He came back with the kind of power over transfers only one other manager has ever been given at our club. But the thing is he accepted to come back on that condition, so Florentino should not go back on his word


This i agree with, he needs to get over whatever issues he has with Bale and James and think more about the club's own needs. I'll point out that he hasn't said a peep about transfers so far. He hasn't complained about not getting a player or wanting a player out. The only public issue was when Bale was in talks with the chinese and he stupidly said he hoped the issue could be solve quickly with him leaving


Zidane accepted the job on certain conditions, and if 2 months in he's suddenly feeling like the club has changed those conditions then he's right to be angry. If Pogba is THE keystone of his project, and that was made clear when he accepted the job, then he's not gone crazy, rather Florentino promised him something and then promptly went back on his word

Granted, if his entire project hinged on signing one player from Manchester United, with no alternatives, then that's a problem in itself...just goes to show what a mess we are behind the scenes.

Said this before, but we're a massive club that perpetually lives in chaos, straddling the line between brilliance and meltdown. Our very worst enemies are stability and success :lol:
He got Mendy, Hazard, an extra central back, Jovic (who I think he asked for?) I think he's getting almost everything..
I am with Zidane but he is from march and 2 weeks before la liga he decides to try 532?.
He must be stressed with the balance of the team :D Hopefully we will get some strike of victories to calm things.
 

giorno

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He got Mendy, Hazard, an extra central back, Jovic (who I think he asked for?) I think he's getting almost everything..
I am with Zidane but he is from march and 2 weeks before la liga he decides to try 532?.
He must be stressed with the balance of the team :D Hopefully we will get some strike of victories to calm things.
We were on Jovic before he came back. Hazard too. Mendy, perhaps, but the only connection there is that they're both french. Mendy was the ligue1's best LB and had many suitors, not just us, so i'm not sure whether Zidane specifically asked for him or he just okeyed the transfer. Certainly he did ask for those type of players, yeah. Still, if Pogba is priority #1 from the start, how does it make sense to splurge on two players who ideally would be backups before moving on him in earnest?

Agree with the second part of your post. It's a mess! Which means we're gonna win the CL :lol:
 

Gasolin

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We were on Jovic before he came back. Hazard too. Mendy, perhaps, but the only connection there is that they're both french. Mendy was the ligue1's best LB and had many suitors, not just us, so i'm not sure whether Zidane specifically asked for him or he just okeyed the transfer. Certainly he did ask for those type of players, yeah. Still, if Pogba is priority #1 from the start, how does it make sense to splurge on two players who ideally would be backups before moving on him in earnest?

Agree with the second part of your post. It's a mess! Which means we're gonna win the CL :lol:
You are not getting Pogba anyway so I am sure things will work out for you, in a way or another basically.
 

ivaldo

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You mean, a coach with very little coaching ability is going to struggle when he doesn't have the best player in the world and buckets of luck?!
 

KennyBurner

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Nah, we had a ridiculous team in its prime. Also incredible amounts of luck
Come off it...it was mostly Ronaldo. lets see what he does now without him. My guess is he wont make it to Christmas. he should have done a guardiola and followed the Portuguese to Juventus.
 

MVBDX

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Aww but you know you are doubting! And no, I don't care about Ed, Ole is doing the job with the dressing room. Yes he's gambling with the kids with potential but this is Zidane's thread, and for some reason, I am now convinced your season could be comical in all aspects now!

PS: Stop taking things too personally, it's just football mate. It's ok to be in a big mess, it had to happen anyway.
It's you who took it personal, you had a paragraph or two written dedicated to popcorn and whatnot, while I just mentioned Woody and that was it.

I'm looking forward to our new season, and so should you.
 

Alemar

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@carvajal signing Pogba could not be a mandatory condition from Zidane. Simply because Man Utd have a legal right to decline the transfer if they so wish

Besides, it was glaringly obvious Perez didn’t actually try to sign him. To offer James or Bale is derogatory at best. If he did want, he would have offered Varane+Casemiro for Pogba, and not something Man Utd didn’t even need
 

carvajal

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@carvajal signing Pogba could not be a mandatory condition from Zidane. Simply because Man Utd have a legal right to decline the transfer if they so wish

Besides, it was glaringly obvious Perez didn’t actually try to sign him. To offer James or Bale is derogatory at best. If he did want, he would have offered Varane+Casemiro for Pogba, and not something Man Utd didn’t even need
I do not know if that offer so low for Pogba is true.
It has been taken for granted but it is another article of the many that have come out.
You are right,It seems they have not taken it too seriously(some ITK's said that Zidane would have included almost any player in the deal) but it also seems that United from the beginning knew that wouldn't sell, regardless of the will of the player, and hence the price, 200 million, that I think, and despite how important it is for you / marketing / potential, etc. is completely out of the market.
United could have pressed Madrid with strong requests but didn't do it either.
 

giorno

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Come off it...it was mostly Ronaldo. lets see what he does now without him. My guess is he wont make it to Christmas. he should have done a guardiola and followed the Portuguese to Juventus.
What's ronaldo done with juventus last season? Or in the first 4 seasons in madrid?
 

MrEleson

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What's ronaldo done with juventus last season? Or in the first 4 seasons in madrid?
If not Ronaldo then all the other players that were there winning with him suddenly turned to crap as soon as he left?
 

Lavanda

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If not Ronaldo then all the other players that were there winning with him suddenly turned to crap as soon as he left?
They were crap the season before last one too and they had Ronaldo back then.
 

giorno

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I do not know if that offer so low for Pogba is true.
It has been taken for granted but it is another article of the many that have come out.
You are right,It seems they have not taken it too seriously(some ITK's said that Zidane would have included almost any player in the deal) but it also seems that United from the beginning knew that wouldn't sell, regardless of the will of the player, and hence the price, 200 million, that I think, and despite how important it is for you / marketing / potential, etc. is completely out of the market.
United could have pressed Madrid with strong requests but didn't do it either.
Fact of the matter is we didn't make a real attempt. We blew 100m(plus bonuses!) to sign hazard as quickly as possible, we spent 110m on jovic and mendy...if pogba was the priority, we should have began the summer by making a serious offer for him. Let's say 130-150m. If United say no to that, then that's fine, look at alternatives. Instead, we went about signing the other players and spent a month dicking around and trying to convince Zidane to take eriksen instead, before we even started to talk seriously with United about Pogba...
 

giorno

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If not Ronaldo then all the other players that were there winning with him suddenly turned to crap as soon as he left?
They didn't. Most of them had already turned to crap the year before. Between age and loss of hunger. Cristiano went half the season looking like Heskey in front of goal
 

MVBDX

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If not Ronaldo then all the other players that were there winning with him suddenly turned to crap as soon as he left?
We've had poor seasons with or without Ronaldo, he's just one (admittedly big) factor among many.
 

MVBDX

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Fact of the matter is we didn't make a real attempt. We blew 100m(plus bonuses!) to sign hazard as quickly as possible, we spent 110m on jovic and mendy...if pogba was the priority, we should have began the summer by making a serious offer for him. Let's say 130-150m. If United say no to that, then that's fine, look at alternatives. Instead, we went about signing the other players and spent a month dicking around and trying to convince Zidane to take eriksen instead, before we even started to talk seriously with United about Pogba...
That's not true, we didn't start chasing Pogba in the last days, quite the opposite in fact, his (and Raiola's) comments at the beginning of the transfer market were a clear sign of it, but United played hardball, as they had no alternatives, and they couldn't afford another year without CL, the PR damage would've been massive as well. So although Zidane still wanted the player, we had no choice but to cool down, we were never going to offer the asking price (~180 M). In the end he's a worldclass midfielder, not a 50 goals a year striker.
 

giorno

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That's not true, we didn't start chasing Pogba in the last days, quite the opposite in fact, his (and Raiola's) comments at the beginning of the transfer market were a clear sign of it, but United played hardball, as they had no alternatives, and they couldn't afford another year without CL, the PR damage would've been massive as well. So although Zidane still wanted the player, we had no choice but to cool down, we were never going to offer the asking price (~180 M). In the end he's a worldclass midfielder, not a 50 goals a year striker.
When Pogba and Raiola made their comments we'd already fired our load on hazard, mendy and jovic. We quite clearly decided to get those done first and only then start moving with United for Pogba. Which, again, makes no sense whatsoever if he's the priority.

Other thing is we'd been talking to pogba since much earlier, which of course we were. But the way we went about it, either Florentino completely lost sight of the market and fecked up majorly(not impossible) or he never wanted to make a serious effort for Pogba...
 

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Fact of the matter is we didn't make a real attempt. We blew 100m(plus bonuses!) to sign hazard as quickly as possible, we spent 110m on jovic and mendy...if pogba was the priority, we should have began the summer by making a serious offer for him. Let's say 130-150m. If United say no to that, then that's fine, look at alternatives. Instead, we went about signing the other players and spent a month dicking around and trying to convince Zidane to take eriksen instead, before we even started to talk seriously with United about Pogba...
I think we are going to eat a fight between Zidane and Florentino.
Read this article, talk about the 6 causes that have caused the first reproaches of Florentino.
Ceballos, James, Pogba, Lo Celso(recommended by Valdano), Van de Beek and Eriksen.
About Pogba, they say that with that money Florentino could buy Eriksen+ Van de Beek and pay Bale's salary, who apparently, on a salary basis, should leave before Pogba signs.
Curious to see how it will develop during the season. Training together and thinking "Because of you I can't have Pogba"
We have to be so cautious and Bartomeu out of control, how is that possible
https://www.elconfidencial.com/deportes/futbol/2019-08-08/real-madrid-fichajes-pogba-eriksen-neymar_2167991/
 
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giorno

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We're making Nobita look like a competent president. That's unacceptable :lol:
 

MVBDX

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When Pogba and Raiola made their comments we'd already fired our load on hazard, mendy and jovic. We quite clearly decided to get those done first and only then start moving with United for Pogba. Which, again, makes no sense whatsoever if he's the priority.

Other thing is we'd been talking to pogba since much earlier, which of course we were. But the way we went about it, either Florentino completely lost sight of the market and fecked up majorly(not impossible) or he never wanted to make a serious effort for Pogba...
We made a couple of signing before the window had even started, so you admit that we started chasing Pogba quite early, we had enough money for his signature, there's a chance that we might invest it for Neymar, so it wasn't about "blowing the load early", but in the end we didn't value his services as much as United's asking price, it was a ridiculous price for any midfielder anyway, it'd have only added to the (already insane) expectations, and he would've been seen as a flop.
 

Cee90

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The worst coach to ever win a CL in the history along with Di Matteo, and he won 3 CL's ! I still dont understand how it happened, he will be sacked before Christmas.
Wow, I've got to say I'm surprised to see a Real fan say this.

Do you honestly believe that?

Did you not rate him tactically? Do you think other managers could have won 3 back-to-back Champions League titles with the same squad?

Do you also think Real fans would take Jose back? I personally would love to see that happen as I think it would stop Pogba going to Real, at least for the time being.

Genuinely curious.
 

giorno

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Flo reportedly implored Zidane to come back, Zidane came back on the condition he gets to build the team he wants, and within a few months he's being told "sorry your #1 priority is too expensive, but we can spend that money on a player you don't want"

The lack of planning, organization and unity of intent between president and manager is stunning. No wonder we look like such a mess
 

Gasolin

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I think we are going to eat a fight between Zidane and Florentino.
Read this article, talk about the 6 causes that have caused the first reproaches of Florentino.
Ceballos, James, Pogba, Lo Celso(recommended by Valdano), Van de Beek and Eriksen.
About Pogba, they say that with that money Florentino could buy Eriksen+ Van de Beek and pay Bale's salary, who apparently, on a salary basis, should leave before Pogba signs.
Curious to see how it will develop during the season. Training together and thinking "Because of you I can't have Pogba"
We have to be so cautious and Bartomeu out of control, how is that possible
https://www.elconfidencial.com/deportes/futbol/2019-08-08/real-madrid-fichajes-pogba-eriksen-neymar_2167991/
Should I get the popcorn out again now? :D

To be fair, I think that article is full of bull.
I mean, how probable is it for United to chase Eriksen in order to transfer Pogba, when United probably wanted Pogba and Eriksen to play together to have more technical grip? Ole equally wants Pogba to be in the center of his team as much as Zidane so that kind of theory is almost science fiction for me.
 
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Gasolin

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Wow, I've got to say I'm surprised to see a Real fan say this.

Do you honestly believe that?

Did you not rate him tactically? Do you think other managers could have won 3 back-to-back Champions League titles with the same squad?

Do you also think Real fans would take Jose back? I personally would love to see that happen as I think it would stop Pogba going to Real, at least for the time being.

Genuinely curious.
It was sarcastic, I think.
 

carvajal

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Should I get the popcorn out again now? :D

To be fair, I think that article is full of bull.
I mean, how probable is it for United to chase Eriksen in order to transfer Pogba, when United probably wanted Pogba and Eriksen to play together to have more technical grip? Ole equally wants Pogba to be in the center of his team as much as Zidane so that kind of theory is almost science fiction for me.
No doubt!, Decision fights between a legendary president and coach, a galactic signing that just landed and see his main believer in the spotlight, the frustrated signing of Pogba, heartbreak of Ney, and Mourinhistas coming out of the cave with the knife between their teeth :D
 

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Fact of the matter is we didn't make a real attempt. We blew 100m(plus bonuses!) to sign hazard as quickly as possible, we spent 110m on jovic and mendy...if pogba was the priority, we should have began the summer by making a serious offer for him. Let's say 130-150m. If United say no to that, then that's fine, look at alternatives. Instead, we went about signing the other players and spent a month dicking around and trying to convince Zidane to take eriksen instead, before we even started to talk seriously with United about Pogba...
Spot on.

That's not true, we didn't start chasing Pogba in the last days, quite the opposite in fact, his (and Raiola's) comments at the beginning of the transfer market were a clear sign of it, but United played hardball, as they had no alternatives, and they couldn't afford another year without CL, the PR damage would've been massive as well. So although Zidane still wanted the player, we had no choice but to cool down, we were never going to offer the asking price (~180 M). In the end he's a worldclass midfielder, not a 50 goals a year striker.
United didn't receive a single serious bid for Pogba. In fact they didn't receive a single bid at all, until they were offered 20M plus James a week before the window closed. Which is laughable. There may have been posturing from his agent, and even a little from the player himself, but Madrid made no serious attempt to sign him. Even if United were playing hardball, as you put it, if they had stuck a bid in for 130-150M, with the way Pogba felt, this transfer could've been forced through. But they didn't. It's pretty clear he wasn't a priority for Perez. And now the English window has shut, the odds on signing him are absolute zero. Madrid probably thought they could get the player to agitate for a move - something he wasn't going to do beyond making his desires clear in a professional way - and then offer United a small amount of cash and a bunch of their cast-offs on massive contracts. When it was clear that was never going to happen, they didn't come back with a serious offer. Even a 100M would've been something to take seriously, even if it was rejected. If they wanted to include a player 100M plus James might have been considered.
 

Peyroteo

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They didn't. Most of them had already turned to crap the year before. Between age and loss of hunger. Cristiano went half the season looking like Heskey in front of goal
Ronaldo and Benzema spent months getting scapegoated for the decline of the team in 2018, the only thing that stopped the past year being perfect is that Benzema didn't leave along with Ronaldo. If Ronaldo had stayed who do you think would be the one taking the blame for the results? Do you have any doubt that you'd have loads of Madrid fans wanting him out as long as you still hadn't won the league or the Champions League?

He got completely shat on for not scoring as much as usual in the first half of 2017/18 despite still being your best player and most of the team severely underperforming without any criticism.

Wouldn't any poacher do and wasn't it easy to find goalscorers? Wasn't Bale going to score loads? Isco balon de oro! Asensio futuro balon de oro! Modric actually won it... Morata, James, Kovacic, Nacho and Lucas Vasquez were superb depth, unfair to the competition when Madrid could win games for fun playing their B team. Marcelo was being compared to Roberto Carlos by June of 2018 and getting benched by Reguilon in September.

Last year it was of course the lack of investment and change of manager that led to all of this. Now 300 million have been spent and Zidane is back, let's see what happens.
 

BluesJr

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Pogba needs to look at this situation and see it could be the worst possible time to join Madrid. They've had an amazing run but football goes in cycles and this could easily be a real down period for them. Their team is weak.
 

The Last Jedaiiii

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He'll resign after a shocker of a start to the season, I predict.
I think he regrets not waiting on the Juventus job. Thinking about it, he would have literally been the perfect fit for them as:

1. They have Ronaldo
2. He is probably still loved by the club
3. They went out and bought 2 central defenders, of which 1 is a generational talent (De Ligt) and the other has ridiculous potential (Demiral).
4. Signed young/entering their prime midfielders (of which 1 is a compatriot that probably idolises him)
5. They want the Champions League and with Allegri failing in that regard, who better to deliver it than the man who effectively masterminded your elimination/final defeat 2 times in a row?

Add to that:
5a) He is a club legend
5b) He would be recharged
5c) He gets on very well with the Agnelli family and probably Nedved as well.
 
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LARulz

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Tons of stories about Madrid, most probably fake or exaggerated at best but my suspicion is that Zidane is probably going to try and get ahead of this one. He knows he's basically going to get sacked at this rate unless this team pulls off a miracle.

By making it painfully obvious he has players he wants gone still there, not letting the Pogba stuff drop despite having plenty of other alternatives available practically handed to Madrid on a plate and his general demeanor - he will jump before he is pushed and have and say it's not what he signed back up for.

Perez may as well just cut ties now and bring in Mourinho or its another wasted season
 

Vissy

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Zidane can't set up a defense if his life depended on it. It's always basically just been relying on Casemiro to bail him out in defensive transitions and on his quality up front to score more goals than he concedes.
 

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Pogba needs to look at this situation and see it could be the worst possible time to join Madrid. They've had an amazing run but football goes in cycles and this could easily be a real down period for them. Their team is weak.
And it will get worse, you know why? Because when Zidane walks again, Mourinho will be given the keys, then Pogba will all of a sudden have a change of heart about joining Madrid.
 

Scroto Baggins

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Perez may as well just cut ties now and bring in Mourinho or its another wasted season
Perez could be waiting for another run at Pochettino. Whether he leaves his Spurs project now that he is being backed by Levy is debatable.