Would this be a first for them in the CL era? I can recall every other top club dropping down there atleast once but I can't remember Real ever doing so.
Zidane watch
- Thread starter Samid
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Shows the elite mentality they have over there that a lot of the fans want him out despite two titles and three CL's, they realise he's stagnating and they likely won't see those heights under Zizou again.
Could you imagine if he delivered that return over five season's for any English club? He could relegate them afterwards and would still get sucked off!
Seems so over the top. He just won La Liga, something Madrid scantly do.
Highly gifted youngsters? What highly gifted youngsters? Seriously, which youngsters in this team are going to be world class players one day? What’s funny about this whole situation is that after all this Florentino work to build a new team from scratch it’s Barcelona who actually has the better youngsters.
By the end of 2017 all the talk at Madrid was about their youngsters and how they’d have a world class team for the next decade that would have easily replaced the players they had. Go back to the 2017/18 supercup games and most people agreed Madrid would go on to dominate spanish football for the next few years.
Asensio, Ceballos, Theo Hernandez, Odegaard, Vinicius, Vallejo, Hakimi... how many of those youngsters will ever even become half as good as the players they were meant to replace?
Summer of 2017 they let go of Pepe, James, Danilo and Morata and brought Ceballos and Theo Hernandez. They lost their depth and ended up playing key CL games with Lucas Vasquez as rightback and the likes of Vallejo and Nacho at CB. That was the first absolute disaster of a summer. Summer of 2018, they sell Cristiano Ronaldo and replace him with noone. Summer of 2019, they spend 150+ million on Jovic and Hazard, they’ve scored about 5 goals combined after a year and a half. Summer of 2020, the squad needs a bunch of new players and they literally don’t buy anyone. That’s four awful summers in a row at least.
Pretty much all the actual quality in this team was bought before that. Their two best players were bought in 2006 and 2009. I don’t understand how people can blame Zidane for this, any coach would have failed under these circumstances
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If he gets the sack then we lose one potential buyer of Pogba.
You could do nothing and show flashes of progress, and still get sucked off in the EPL
We know it too well on this board
No Real Madrid coach can survive if this happens next week.
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Real's next 5 games
Pogba is as far from a Modric replacement as you can get. Modric actually puts in work on the defensive end and is extremely press resistant.
These are my reasons, perhaps I am very picky but surely other Madridistas will agree.
One thing is the 19/20 season and another thing is the 20/21 .Madrid are supposed to win titles every year. A major title can give you some credit, as long as the game / style is promising, which is not happening.
The games are very bad, the worst in a long time. And that ends up exploding, with some resounding defeat, as happened to Valverde or Setién. The deficiencies of the squad should not be an impediment to play well.
The matches are gloomy, gray, as we say in Spanish. There is quite a bit of boredom among the fans. Not for lack of appreciation. Today the phrase on twitter was, "Zidane I love you but resign"
I don't see him capable of reversing the situation in the sense of playing better. Because the problem comes from far. Since the end of the league, which although it was a demonstration of concentration resulted in many 1-0 with penalties and Courtois as the star. We seem trained by Simeone.
In the aspects of the game, very few ideas in attack.It cannot all be reduced to improving the intensity of the pressure.The team does not seem well worked and I think the rotations have been chaotic at times.
Fortunately or unfortunately, Madrid is immersed in a strategy of young people, which began years ago, in a slower way (Varane, Marcelo) but which has now multiplied, mainly because there is no money.
I doubt if Zidane is going to get more of those players, if he is the right person. Perhaps most of them are rubbish, a reasonable risk being so young , but before selling them, discarding them, I would like to see the opinion and progression with another coach.
The making of the squad, Hazard, Jovic (his signing), Reguilón, Achraf, Ceballos,his conflicts with Bale/James, his mania with Pogba rejecting reinforcements, his absolute loyalty to Benzema to the detriment of Jovic, Mariano or any other option on the market.
Except for Mendy and Valverde, I don't think any player has improved substantially.
Here there is not the "he needs a couple of markets", or processes or anything like that. Besides, he cannot say it since Hazard and Jovic have been worth about 160 million, if Hazard has not been more than 100. I think I'd rather not know.
Now he is injured and is clearly opportunistic, but he was the main responsible for his signing and for assessing whether he was totally necessary.
He is a very important person in the club, respected, and knows how to manage difficult dressing rooms, which has always been said, but It seems that lately there are small cracks, according to what the press says.
355m with 200m plus net spend to boost squad that already have bunch of top class & good players like Ramos, Benzema, Courtois, Varane, Carvajal, Casemiro & Kroos is more than enough for resources. He has to do better.
If I’m not mistaken Barcelona was on top of the group last season the day when Valverde was fired. Imagine if Barcelona board didn’t feck up by firing Valverde just to replace him with worse manager last season, it would be questionable if Zidane could win the league last season.
If I’m not mistaken Barcelona was on top of the group last season the day when Valverde was fired. Imagine if Barcelona board didn’t feck up by firing Valverde just to replace him with worse manager last season, it would be questionable if Zidane could win the league last season.
That is true. But should I put it that way, Pogba would see that position as his
By and large I agree with you, but I don't agree about the part on the money. I think it's about how Zidane has evolved - and how he's moved; him, not the club. When he took over, for the first 18 months or so I was absolutely delighted with how he handled the squad. The big upside for me was the stick some others used to beat him with. He wasn't wedded to a style or formation and used all of the tools at his disposal impeccably.
What springs up as the biggest example is how many games Madrid won by using Morata and James in the 4-2-3-1 - whether in games he started that way or in games when he shifted to it while chasing the points. It worked like a charm and it ensured that the squad stayed fresh - and unpredictable! The team could be set up in completely different formations and yet have world-class players everywhere. Morata and James had good seasons. Not the level where you want to see them every game, but good enough.
From there, look at where the club is now. I said back 2 summers ago and again last summer that I didn't agree with how the central midfield and forward area was shaping up. Now you can add LW to it (last summer). Looking at the squad and bench last night, it's hard to imagine that this is the club that's loaned / sold all of:
Reguilon, Achraf, Llorente, Kovacic, Ceballos, Bale, Morata and James. I won't mention Kubo because of the passport issue, but you have to wonder if he'd not have added more than some others simply because the team has nobody in his position.
I won't go into the purchases. Have said too many times that they were almost all just bad decisions which were easy to call even before the purchases were made.
Ødegaard is brilliant, I was really impressed with him last season and think he’s an outstanding talent. Vinicius has shown a lot of potential during his time at Madrid but is still very raw, looks a bit out of sorts when I’ve seen him this season but it’s important to remember that he’s only 20. Asensio looked promising at one point but don’t think he’ll make it at Madrid and had a bad injury. Don’t thinkI’ve ever seen Vallejo play, Ceballos nah (though the looked decent post Covid atArsenal but that’s it), haven’t seen him at Inter but thought Hakimi looked fantastic in the few Dortmund games I saw, and although I’ve seen next to nothing of him in Italy I hear Theo Hernandez has been brilliant
He wasn’t on your list but Valverde was bought around the time you mentioned, and he looks a superb player. They’re missing him badly atm.
Another issue is Pogba's fitness levels. I'm sure they wanna avoid another Hazard situation. Pogba has barely been fit these past few months.
You'd think that 4 CL could at least buy you some understanding at Real but nope. Despite that he is a club legend in a capacity as a manager and player
I said it ages ago and nothing since has given me reason to change my mind. Pogba would be the worst possible addition to this squad. He's not going to solve the issues - and will create new ones of his own. It'd be just like most of the recent signings in that sense. Pogba isn't the need of the hour for Madrid. Fitness etc. comes later. The profile of player this squad needs can be summed up succinctly as "not Pogba".
That's how you see it but not sure it's not important for them. Eden Hazard is the best example of that. There is always a chance to have a player adapt to a new system and country if he is present and plays but none at all, if he regularly misses games during seasons.
He's a club legend - and will remain one - but that doesn't excuse the fact that he's a big part of the reason for why the club is in this position. He can't argue that he's not been backed. Even in player spats, he's had his way. The club has spent a ton as well but you could argue that the windows have hurt the squad more than helped it. Also, how many players have actually improved? Fede is the only one that comes to mind - and I'd argue that the jury is still out on whether that's down to Zidane. Why? Because Zidane wanted Pogba for that position and Fede's been good ever since he came in.
Should have been clearer. What I meant was that even if they were (hypothetically of course) guaranteed that he'd be fit 100% of the time, he's not the player I'd be signing for Madrid. I have a special love for Real Madrid and much though I want Pogba gone from United, I'd ideally want him shipped to PSG or Juve and not blighting Madrid.
I will agree then. Pogba won't solve their issues and I even think they have other areas with bigger concerns (lack of quality attackers to support Karim, a replacement for Karim who could challenge and possibly bench him and much better defenders).
Real Madrid as a club are far bigger than a single manager.
I really hope that Pogba learns to respect united because the way I see it.... Pogba will not be the first player on their wishlist
You're right about that. He seemed more flexible before, if that's what you mean. For some time now, he seems determined to live or die with his troops.
In more than one game, some system different to the 433 would have been good.
At the time you are commenting, I think it was the league where the Madrid "B" helped so much, but those changes and rotations seemed more natural. Nowadays he can tire out Modric three games in a row, play with Odegaard in the first league game and make him disappear for three, or Rodrygo last season, when he mysteriously disappeared for a month and a half.
Do you support United or Madrid?
I don't think he has a lack of respect. It's just working out on the pitch - he's tactically an odd fit for this team especially with Brunow now our star man who is performing.
You mean "not working out" and I would defo agree with that. Sometimes, it's just not meant to be, it's as simple as that.
If they're knocked out, there is no way he survives this. Real Madrid would never have been in this situation. It would take Florentino Pérez tying his destiny to Zidane's and for all his loyalty and appreciation for him, I doubt he'll take the fall with him. An available Pochettino is to ripe a fruit to pass up I think.
Would be incredible if they asked him. He more than deserves one poor season.
Who would replace him?
Pochettino or Raul is my best guess.
On the one hand the team is what it is(specifically a ferrari in the era of mercedes) and we've been savaged by injuries and COVID.
On the other hand this team more and more looks like it needs a different manager in charge
Watching Mendy, who really should play as a third CB, consistently being our most advanced player yesterday gave me ptsd
On the other hand this team more and more looks like it needs a different manager in charge
Watching Mendy, who really should play as a third CB, consistently being our most advanced player yesterday gave me ptsd
Absolutely ruthless, Zidane won the league just last year and has 4 CLs under his belt and is a club legend on top of that. There is a reason Real Madrid are the biggest club in the world and we are what we are.
Roman is just as ruthless so I won't count you in those English clubs. City have an elite mentality too. Tottenham and Arsenal are not that successful. United and Liverpool would be the only ones among the big clubs who would riot if their legend and title winning manager was let go in such a situation.
Exactly. I really liked the way he used the squad that season. It was brilliant, seamless and worked a charm. He knew what to do when - and that’s why I used to laugh at those questioning the team’s identity. The identity was “the team will win, come what may”. But since that summer, he’s systematically dismantled his ability to do that and the squad utilization has been, well... it’s ranged from mildly surprising to positively eyebrow-raising. Transfers, falling-out with players. Just so much that’s odd and sometimes just wrong
United. But I have a special affection for Real Madrid and have been a fan for almost as long as I have United. Right back to the days of Redondo. Madrid and United also have a link going back before Munich by the way.
BS. Nobody deserves a “poor season”. It’s different if there’s a rebuild underway and you’re in transition. But even that doesn’t hold in this case. Also, Zidane is a part (the extent depends on how accountable you hold him for the transfer decisions) of the reason for why the club is where it is. No hiding from that.
Absolute ruthlessness - a horror to some, the ideal to others.
I’d correct you but I don’t think you track Madrid closely barring results. It’s about how things have evolved over the last 1.5 years and also if you track back to his first stint, how the club has shaped up. In effect, he’s been in charge of all barring 1 summer window of the last 5. He’s also been a part of the decision-making even before that. Comparing to other clubs is largely pointless.
This is the 2nd year in a row they have done feck all in Europe. Last year was the most boring title win in the history of Real. Winning a title against another giant who are just as bad isnt really a job saver He has shown he cannot set up an attack without Ronaldo.
Its not a case of reacting to a few weeks worth of results. They have fallen levels below from what they should be. If they were in England they would have no chance of top 4. 400m spent 2 summers ago and how many would get into Utds side? Chelsea? Spurs?
Saying that, itll take them a long time to be in a position to compete with Europes best. Englands competition is so fierece that selling their stars doesnt make sense with the impact losing out on top 4 would bring and the competitive nature of that league will attract more of the stars that Madrid will be competing for. Why go to a poorer league for a team that is middle of the road in Europe?
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If they get Pochettino Im gonna be really mad.
Yeah that's what I meant. He's a very good footballer, that is beyond doubt IMO but he is also undoubtedly flawed and hence not the best fit for Manchester United in this moment in time for the club.