Zidane watch

[giorno]

I see that you have also been thinking about the Europa League
About Zidane ...I'm about to get off his train Giorno...
I feel a bit dirty about it but I don't see anything clear. I'm starting to get curious for a second opinion on the players.
The problem is that I don't trust Raúl at all.
Maybe it's time for Pochettino

If we're moving on from Zidane i want us to go full decadent phase madness and get Gasperini from Atalanta. I want to see Mendy scoring 15 goals a season. We should get Adama for the right flank as well

 

[McGrathsipan]

Poch before Christmas.

 

[carvajal]

If we're moving on from Zidane i want us to go full decadent phase madness and get Gasperini from Atalanta. I want to see Mendy scoring 15 goals a season. We should get Adama for the right flank as well

that's fine by me, looks like fun, though I'm afraid veterans would eat him in two bites

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Is it fair to sack him though? No transfer at all so even if he wins nothing this season, it‘s fair to let him continue. Unless if they are sitting mid table by Christmas Or new year. I can’t imagine where Zidane is going as well. He can’t speak English so I can’t see the EPL will suit him. Probably replacing Tuchel at PSG or take over some of the top Serie A team.

 

[Morty_]

Funny how RM defense looks like complete shit, everytime "the most overrated CB of all time" doesnt play.

 

[giorno]

Funny how RM defense looks like complete shit, everytime "the most overrated CB of all time" doesnt play.

Tbf, it's been shit with him as well this first few games

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Tbf, it's been shit with him as well this first few games

Getting too old understandable.

 

[PepG]

Is it fair to sack him though? No transfer at all so even if he wins nothing this season, it‘s fair to let him continue. Unless if they are sitting mid table by Christmas Or new year. I can’t imagine where Zidane is going as well. He can’t speak English so I can’t see the EPL will suit him. Probably replacing Tuchel at PSG or take over some of the top Serie A team.

Zidane is nailed on for the Juventus job when it becomes available. In France - its not Paris but Marseille...

 

[Peyroteo]

It's not Zidane's fault, the squad simply isn't Real Madrid quality. They won the league last season but both Barca and Atletico were awful so the quality at the top of La Liga is a lot lower than it was for the past 10/15 years.

Next summer they'll spend loads of money, he should get to stay for that and build his team from then on.

 

[carvajal]

It's not Zidane's fault, the squad simply isn't Real Madrid quality. They won the league last season but both Barca and Atletico were awful so the quality at the top of La Liga is a lot lower than it was for the past 10/15 years.

Next summer they'll spend loads of money, he should get to stay for that and build his team from then on.

There is an eternity until next season and he is already very questioned in October.
Not for a couple of games, but for game dynamics and unconvincing results from last season.
If he does not win anything, it would surely mean that a Barça that was a disaster a few months ago, has surpassed him.
A couple of days ago Pedrerol said, I think quite rightly, that he is too close with certain players.
When they lose, he always repeats the tune of "these players have given me a lot." Pedrerol wondered until when he will have to continue defending them, "mortgaged".

Theo, Reguilón, Kubo, Ceballos, Achraf. Perhaps one of them could have contributed in some way.
Even though Bale and James were in question, some wonder why the coach is unable to win them back for the cause.

 

[Peyroteo]

There is an eternity until next season and he is already very questioned in October.
Not for a couple of games, but for game dynamics and unconvincing results from last season.
If he does not win anything, it would surely mean that a Barça that was a disaster a few months ago, has surpassed him.
A couple of days ago Pedrerol said, I think quite rightly, that he is too close with certain players.
When they lose, he always repeats the tune of "these players have given me a lot." Pedrerol wondered until when he will have to continue defending them, "mortgaged".

Theo, Reguilón, Kubo, Ceballos, Achraf. Perhaps one of them could have contributed in some way.
Even though Bale and James were in question, some wonder why the coach is unable to win them back for the cause.

I think the problem is that noone came in, the ones that left made sense. The squad was already clearly below the standard last season and Zidane did brilliantly to finish with the amount of points he did.

The board made a point of not spending any money this year despite the squad needing new players while being obvious that they're ready to spend crazy amounts next year so this was a decision made by the club. Don't think Zidane can get much blame this season even if he doesn't win anything despite his preferences and questionable decisions sometimes.

 

[giorno]

I think the problem is that noone came in, the ones that left made sense. The squad was already clearly below the standard last season and Zidane did brilliantly to finish with the amount of points he did.

The board made a point of not spending any money this year despite the squad needing new players while being obvious that they're ready to spend crazy amounts next year so this was a decision made by the club. Don't think Zidane can get much blame this season even if he doesn't win anything despite his preferences and questionable decisions sometimes.

It's one thing to do well and not win because the team isn't good enough. It's another to be a disaster, like in the last 2 games.

Still, this was literally the 6th game of the season. The alarm bells go off because it's real madrid, and because a lot of people seem to have an agenda against Zidane, for whatever reason. I think a lot of people are too conditioned by this brand new wave of managers who really put their stamp on their team's playing style, etc, and Zidane doesn't do that and so a lot of people don't get why he is so successful and are just waiting for him to fail to confirm their bias

 

[midnightmare]

There is an eternity until next season and he is already very questioned in October.
Not for a couple of games, but for game dynamics and unconvincing results from last season.
If he does not win anything, it would surely mean that a Barça that was a disaster a few months ago, has surpassed him.
A couple of days ago Pedrerol said, I think quite rightly, that he is too close with certain players.
When they lose, he always repeats the tune of "these players have given me a lot." Pedrerol wondered until when he will have to continue defending them, "mortgaged".

Theo, Reguilón, Kubo, Ceballos, Achraf. Perhaps one of them could have contributed in some way.
Even though Bale and James were in question, some wonder why the coach is unable to win them back for the cause.

This has been the theme for a while now. When he came back, his first steps were to reinstate all the old guard - and then not refresh beyond the emergence of Fede and a couple of his own signings, although I'm not even too convinced that the Fede emergence has been entirely by design and to plan.

My biggest gripes have been the transfer activity. His signings have inspired no confidence and his reported desire to sign Pogba against all the evidence suggests that he really should not be allowed to call the shots - unless someone tells me that all the signings and sales were Flo getting in and shipping out players without asking Zizou. CBA searching, but I posted last summer that while everyone hailed Real Madrid as winning the market, I didn't see sense in any of the signings beyond Mendy. Has gone exactly that way, though I didn't foresee just how disastrous the Hazard and Jovic signings would be. When a swap for Pogba was discussed, I'd said the one midfield player I'd want at United from Madrid (this is last season) was Theo. He's hardly done too badly while the Madrid midfield is creaking badly. Keeping Marcelo and selling Reguilon is daft too. On Kubo, I get the passport issues that forced the loan, but again, have to wonder why the club couldn't balance out in other areas given the shambles in attack last season.

PS: I don't rate Ceballos that highly tbf - but yeah, Achraf is another very puzzling one...

 

[midnightmare]

It's one thing to do well and not win because the team isn't good enough. It's another to be a disaster, like in the last 2 games.

Still, this was literally the 6th game of the season. The alarm bells go off because it's real madrid, and because a lot of people seem to have an agenda against Zidane, for whatever reason. I think a lot of people are too conditioned by this brand new wave of managers who really put their stamp on their team's playing style, etc, and Zidane doesn't do that and so a lot of people don't get why he is so successful and are just waiting for him to fail to confirm their bias

True to an extent. I've always thought that is actually one of the keys to his success actually - and also hold that managers of this kind, who are flexible and adaptable last longer at the highest level as they're not too wedded to their ideas / ideals and can get the most out of their squads. To my mind, the issue with Zidane does seem to be more about his having moved from the initial period where he really used the squad well (James, Bale, Morata et al featuring a lot with regular and astute moves between 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 game by game etc.) to alienating some players completely, selling some young ones and settling on this almost undroppable group that has aged and slowed - and not been replaced. Also, there is no defence for the transfer activity - both on buying and selling.

 

[giorno]

With signings it's hard to tell where Flo ends and Zidane begins...

I mean, if it were up to Zidane we would have sold Bale and signed Mbappé in '17. He stopped Flo from signing De Gea and Kepa, both times he was proven correct. Ceballos and Theo weren't really his signings and he was forced to make do with a lot of young players and/or players he didn't particularly want

Militao was signed before he came back. Both the Hazard and Jovic deals were on before he came back. He says he's the one who wanted them but it's clear the club intended to sign them in the first place

As for this summer, sorry but in the COVID world i can't blame him for letting the club sell Hakimi or Reguilon when it is clear we needed those sales. Reguilon likely wouldn't have displaced Mendy and Hakimi choose to leave. And besides Carvajal is still a very good player for us. We also would have sold Ceballos instead of loaning him, and keeping Jovic was very clearly not his choice

 

[RoyH1]

With signings it's hard to tell where Flo ends and Zidane begins...

I mean, if it were up to Zidane we would have sold Bale and signed Mbappé in '17. He stopped Flo from signing De Gea and Kepa, both times he was proven correct. Ceballos and Theo weren't really his signings and he was forced to make do with a lot of young players and/or players he didn't particularly want

Militao was signed before he came back. Both the Hazard and Jovic deals were on before he came back. He says he's the one who wanted them but it's clear the club intended to sign them in the first place

As for this summer, sorry but in the COVID world i can't blame him for letting the club sell Hakimi or Reguilon when it is clear we needed those sales. Reguilon likely wouldn't have displaced Mendy and Hakimi choose to leave. And besides Carvajal is still a very good player for us. We also would have sold Ceballos instead of loaning him, and keeping Jovic was very clearly not his choice

I think that's exactly the big problem with Madrid. They seem to have two parallel scouting departments, one with Calafat and one with Zidane.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Why are people so impatient with Zidane? 3 CLs and 2 leagues and as things go south everyone jumps on his back.

 

[Jinn]

Why are people so impatient with Zidane? 3 CLs and 2 leagues and as things go south everyone jumps on his back.

millennials

 

[carvajal]

This has been the theme for a while now. When he came back, his first steps were to reinstate all the old guard - and then not refresh beyond the emergence of Fede and a couple of his own signings, although I'm not even too convinced that the Fede emergence has been entirely by design and to plan.

My biggest gripes have been the transfer activity. His signings have inspired no confidence and his reported desire to sign Pogba against all the evidence suggests that he really should not be allowed to call the shots - unless someone tells me that all the signings and sales were Flo getting in and shipping out players without asking Zizou. CBA searching, but I posted last summer that while everyone hailed Real Madrid as winning the market, I didn't see sense in any of the signings beyond Mendy. Has gone exactly that way, though I didn't foresee just how disastrous the Hazard and Jovic signings would be. When a swap for Pogba was discussed, I'd said the one midfield player I'd want at United from Madrid (this is last season) was Theo. He's hardly done too badly while the Madrid midfield is creaking badly. Keeping Marcelo and selling Reguilon is daft too. On Kubo, I get the passport issues that forced the loan, but again, have to wonder why the club couldn't balance out in other areas given the shambles in attack last season.

PS: I don't rate Ceballos that highly tbf - but yeah, Achraf is another very puzzling one...

You are right about Kubo, I had forgotten about the passport issue, I think it will be solved shortly if Vini gets it.
Kubo, who by the way played a great game yesterday.
I agree with Valverde.
It was a very strong bet from the club but the Pogba issue helped him a lot. Today is one of my favorite players.
Ceballos cheated many of us by being a marvel in the U21, although I think we should have insisted a bit.
@giorno
It is clear that money was needed and he received a very good offer, but being from Madrid, all my life in the academy I think that if they had sold Odriozola he would be here.
Selling or giving away all the youngsters is typical of other clubs, it seems that we have become a farm

 

[midnightmare]

With signings it's hard to tell where Flo ends and Zidane begins...

I mean, if it were up to Zidane we would have sold Bale and signed Mbappé in '17. He stopped Flo from signing De Gea and Kepa, both times he was proven correct. Ceballos and Theo weren't really his signings and he was forced to make do with a lot of young players and/or players he didn't particularly want

Militao was signed before he came back. Both the Hazard and Jovic deals were on before he came back. He says he's the one who wanted them but it's clear the club intended to sign them in the first place

As for this summer, sorry but in the COVID world i can't blame him for letting the club sell Hakimi or Reguilon when it is clear we needed those sales. Reguilon likely wouldn't have displaced Mendy and Hakimi choose to leave. And besides Carvajal is still a very good player for us. We also would have sold Ceballos instead of loaning him, and keeping Jovic was very clearly not his choice

Very hard to say which one was whose signing - but I do put Hazard down to Zidane. The stories around him go back to his first stint. 2017 at the very least. That the deal went through late is typical of how Zidane doesn’t seem to “let go” of targets. I think you and I discussed Pogba last summer too. I don’t think Madrid needs Pogba and feel he’d be yet another “not quite there” signing. But Zidane’s wanted him for 4 years now and apparently still wants him despite seeing his inconsistencies and weaknesses at Man United. I’d say Militao and Rodrygo were clearly Flo signings. Jovic - no idea.

On the selling, I completely understand the compulsions to sell - but disagree on the players moved. Also, I don’t really agree with the opinion that Zidane was saddled with many that he didn’t want and lost several that he did. No point going there of course as there’s no way we’ll ever really know.

Why are people so impatient with Zidane? 3 CLs and 2 leagues and as things go south everyone jumps on his back.

Because it’s Real Madrid. Also, there is a section of morons that has tried building the narrative that Zidane has fluked it / it was all Ronaldo / he has no “identity” etc. This section was shown up last season, but then pointed to the CL exit and made out that it was Barca’s failure and not Madrid’s success under Zidane - ignoring the way he adapted post lockdown to embark on that run. So this season, they’re ignoring that it’s just 6 games so far and that for a team that’s clearly not been strengthened the way Zidane would have wanted.

 

[giorno]

@giorno
It is clear that money was needed and he received a very good offer, but being from Madrid, all my life in the academy I think that if they had sold Odriozola he would be here.
Selling or giving away all the youngsters is typical of other clubs, it seems that we have become a farm

Sure, but who wanted odriozola this summer? At the end of the day you can only sell players other clubs want

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Not backed. No coaching etc etc

 

[midnightmare]

You are right about Kubo, I had forgotten about the passport issue, I think it will be solved shortly if Vini gets it.
Kubo, who by the way played a great game yesterday.
I agree with Valverde.
It was a very strong bet from the club but the Pogba issue helped him a lot. Today is one of my favorite players.
Ceballos cheated many of us by being a marvel in the U21, although I think we should have insisted a bit.

Vini could have that passport by winter I think. He’s applied before lockdown so even with the slow process, shouldn’t take too much longer. I don’t think there’s a January recall clause for Kubo though which is infuriating. He’d be a massive asset given the issues up front.

@giorno On Reguilon, regardless of all else I think the idiocy is being shown up when there are already reports of the club exercising the buyback this summer. So that’s a 10 Mn hit on a deal that was bizarre to start with. Surely some Italian team would’ve taken Marcelo or Odriozola? For the latter, I think German clubs too could have been options. Then again, I also belong to the camp that would have sold Ceballos last summer and kept Llorente... and wouldn’t have gone for Mendy.

 

[FootballHQ]

I still actually think Real Madrid have a better strategy than Barcelona at present. Bit disappointed Odegaard has faded from starting 11 since opening game as he was wonderful at La Real last season and he's one you need to be patient with while he adapts to the higher focus, think he's injured anyway.

Upfront Vinicius is one of those types who's got so much ability and has no problem breaking past defences into final third but just lacks the composure. Ronaldo had those issues at 19-20 of course so again patience is needed.

Hazard being a bust of a signing so far hasn't helped. Couldn't really foresee that as it's not like he was massively injured at Chelsea, would frequently play 50 games + even in his mediocre Chelsea seasons.

And despite thinking he used to be a little overrated Ramos missing always makes Madrid far more vulnerable at the back, Varane simply hasn't stepped up as one of those leaders types Madrid fans seem to crave.

Think Barca and Madrid are similar in really relying on the old guard too much. Not sure on stats but I'd be interested how many teams in last 30 years have won CL with 6-7 players over 30 years old. I would say Real Madrid have more exciting young players compared to Barca which is just Fati.

It's very hard in business end of seasons to be full on in both, many of Madrid's recent CL wins have come with mediocre La Liga campaigns behind them and that was with younger legs.

AC Milan were an exception in the 2000s but again they were struggling to even make top 4 of some of those seasons in Serie A.

 

[giorno]

@giorno On Reguilon, regardless of all else I think the idiocy is being shown up when there are already reports of the club exercising the buyback this summer. So that’s a 10 Mn hit on a deal that was bizarre to start with. Surely some Italian team would’ve taken Marcelo or Odriozola? For the latter, I think German clubs too could have been options. Then again, I also belong to the camp that would have sold Ceballos last summer and kept Llorente... and wouldn’t have gone for Mendy.

I've been saying we should have just kept Reguilon until january at least, but he wanted the kind of guarantees of first-team football we simply couldn't give him. Besides which, if we manage to get corona under control by next summer, that's not a bad deal imho

Marcelo is a big earner coming off two bad seasons past 30. I don't think there is a market for him, no. Odriozola, if somebody wanted him we would have sold. Mendy...on the one hand i love him, on the other hand looking at reguilon yeah, we might have saved the money. But then, nobody could foresee corona...

Bit disappointed Odegaard has faded from starting 11 since opening game

Hazard being a bust of a signing so far hasn't helped. Couldn't really foresee that as it's not like he was massively injured at Chelsea, would frequently play 50 games + even in his mediocre Chelsea seasons.

It's very hard in business end of seasons to be full on in both, many of Madrid's recent CL wins have come with mediocre La Liga campaigns behind them and that was with younger legs.

AC Milan were an exception in the 2000s but again they were struggling to even make top 4 of some of those seasons in Serie A.

Odegaard got COVID and then got injured

Hazard suffered a traumatic injury courtesy of Meunier and hasn't recovered yet

Joint third with 87 points while letting the league go in the last 2 games(including a loss at celta with a reserve team), and we got to the end of the season running on fumes with a lot of injuries, we had to prioritize. 90 points in 15/16, 93 in 16/17. 17/18 was the only time we won the CL with a mediocre league campaign in our recent run

Milan only struggled with top 4 in 06/07, where they started with a 6 points penalty iirc. And they prioritized the CL early on, too

 

[FootballHQ]

Milan finished 3rd in 02/03, 11 points behind Juve, 7 points off in 04/05 (which should've been another CL winning season).

Yeah I see Odegaard is out but interested what happens when he's fully fit again as does feel the Casemiro-Modric-Kroos axis is past its best now so new blood is required.

Valverde's another good young player, started plenty last season.

 

[giorno]

Milan finished 3rd in 02/03, 11 points behind Juve, 7 points off in 04/05 (which should've been another CL winning season).

They were in the title race until march in 2003 and in 2005 they were tied with juventus going into their clash in the 4th last game of the season...

 

[United Junkie]

I see that you have also been thinking about the Europa League
About Zidane ...I'm about to get off his train Giorno...
I feel a bit dirty about it but I don't see anything clear. I'm starting to get curious for a second opinion on the players.
The problem is that I don't trust Raúl at all.
Maybe it's time for Pochettino

Already? Haha typical Madridsta.

 

[Feed Me]

If we're moving on from Zidane i want us to go full decadent phase madness and get Gasperini from Atalanta. I want to see Mendy scoring 15 goals a season. We should get Adama for the right flank as well

With targets like him, I can see why you are looking to the Europa.

 

[FootballHQ]

They were in the title race until march in 2003 and in 2005 they were tied with juventus going into their clash in the 4th last game of the season...

Suppose it just comes down to should a squad with all their great players in early to mid 2000s have won more than one league title in the 2000s. Overall only 2 league titles between 2000-15 when things have really gone downhill and Juve really restablished themselves after Calciopoli

Guess it's different abroad given how they and Real Madrid have built their legacys through numerous european cups but perception in England generally is always win your league title first and then see what you can do in europe.

 

[midnightmare]

Suppose it just comes down to should a squad with all their great players in early to mid 2000s have won more than one league title in the 2000s. Overall only 2 league titles between 2000-15 when things have really gone downhill and Juve really restablished themselves after Calciopoli

Guess it's different abroad given how they and Real Madrid have built their legacys through numerous european cups but perception in England generally is always win your league title first and then see what you can do in europe.

Carlo's record with that Milan team is always held against him. That team should have won a lot more league titles than it did and Carlo under-performed. His Cup wins, specially in Europe, kept him in the job, but to win just 1 Serie A title was horrific. It's a reputation that has stayed with Carlo though - that of being a better Cup manager than a league manager.

He's been the same throughout - each of his stints, at Juve, Milan, Madrid and Bayern saw the teams do better in Cups than in the league.

 

[giorno]

Yeah, calciopoli happened...juventus-milan 0-0 from that 04/05 season by itself would convince you of juventus' guilt...

 

[carvajal]

Already? Haha typical Madridsta.

I've always been very fickle, I don't hide it
I would be delighted to have to rectify but I do not see the future so clear.

 

[GatoLoco]

Played 6 times as coach in the Nou Camp, never lost. 3 wins and 3 draws.

 

[PepG]

I've always been very fickle, I don't hide it
I would be delighted to have to rectify but I do not see the future so clear.

Noone can. But for me personally Zizou already proved that he is one of the best coaches in world football right now and it will be a madness decision for Real to sack him. He schooled tactically Koeman today.

 

[Champagne Football]

Everyone thought Madrid were in crisis due to the midweek Champions League cock-up, but little did they know that this was Zidane's plan all along to rest most of his first XI in that game, not too bothered if they lose it, so that everyone is fresh for the El Clasico today.

Zidane knows a loss in an El Clasico is enough to cost you your job. He made the right call. Great win for them away to Barca today.

 

[Mb194dc]

Everyone thought Madrid were in crisis due to the midweek Champions League cock-up, but little did they know that this was Zidane's plan all along to rest most of his first XI in that game, not too bothered if they lose it, so that everyone is fresh for the El Clasico today.

Zidane knows a loss in an El Clasico is enough to cost you your job. He made the right call. Great win for them away to Barca today.

He called VAR again ?

 

[giorno]

He called VAR again ?

Yes, and it worked!

 

[carvajal]

Noone can. But for me personally Zizou already proved that he is one of the best coaches in world football right now and it will be a madness decision for Real to sack him. He schooled tactically Koeman today.

Of course, and surely his successes are slightly underrated, but he has to offer more.
Both tactically and in the individual growth of each player.
I think he has acquired vices, ideas and sympathies difficult to modify.
This dull style cannot be eternally justified for being who he is, as has happened to others before.
Or rather, not having Cristiano does not justify this football, too defensive and repetitive.
Despite his successes, I am not entirely convinced about his authority to decide signings and I wonder if he is the best to manage the growth of Odegaard, Rodrygo, Brahim, Kubo, etc.
I doubt that with Mbappé / Camavinga / Pogba / etc the panorama is going to change radically

 

[Schneckerl]

They should do something un-Madrid like and give him at least another decent transfer window no matter what happens. No incoming transfers this summer and lost some players/permanent injuries.