Zidane watch

Morty_

Full Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
2,813
Supports
Real Madrid
Im not all that surprised by this result, tbh.
Barca no doubt have more quality going forward, as shown in their other games, but they havent faced the best teams as of late, and RM typically do quite well at the Camp Nou, and we all knew Barca still had weaknesses.

This changes little in the grand scheme of things though, RM will still struggle a lot to break down low blocks, Barca have more creativity in that department.
 

BalanceUnAutreJoint

Full Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2017
Messages
1,522
Barca is a flat track bully. They can smash lower sides that give them way too much spaxe than they should but they struggle so much against an equally good side
 

midnightmare

Full Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2015
Messages
1,228
Location
Midian
Sergio Ramos - is he the most-underrated highly-rated player ever? The impact is just amazing. Convinced that his eventual departure will be far harder-hitting than Cristiano’s was.
 

Morty_

Full Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
2,813
Supports
Real Madrid
Sergio Ramos - is he the most-underrated highly-rated player ever? The impact is just amazing. Convinced that his eventual departure will be far harder-hitting than Cristiano’s was.
It will be a very big loss, but you make it sound like the loss of Ronaldo wasnt that big of a deal, well, they lost 40-50 goals as a team each season, which is a big deal too.
Wont be "far harder-hitting", but perhaps something similiar.
 

scudetto_boy

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
128
Supports
St Mirren
Zidane won them the league last season when it never looked a possibility for the majority of the season. If Real sack him after the non-event of their pre-season, the club is a disgrace!
 

midnightmare

Full Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2015
Messages
1,228
Location
Midian
It will be a very big loss, but you make it sound like the loss of Ronaldo wasnt that big of a deal, well, they lost 40-50 goals as a team each season, which is a big deal too.
Wont be "far harder-hitting", but perhaps something similiar.
Ummm... Cristiano carried the attack, true - but his exit wasn't the end-all for the attack. Jovic has been a disaster and so has Hazard, but the team still has the potential to score goals. Cristiano was always going to be a loss, but Benzema stepped up and arguably, with Vini maturing, if Hazard and Jovic had been even competent professionals and no more, the attack would be fine. In defence, it's a different story.

Ramos isn't just the captain and the best CB at the club. He is the driving force, much more than Cristiano ever was. He holds the back line together, drives forward and also chips in with crucial goals at the other end. He was the second-highest scorer last season. Sure, that includes penalties, but they're important goals and show his cojones. Look at the Real Madrid record with and without Ramos and you start to understand his importance and impact. Don't think the comparable analysis for the team with and without Cristiano was ever this stark.

Zidane won them the league last season when it never looked a possibility for the majority of the season. If Real sack him after the non-event of their pre-season, the club is a disgrace!
He won't be sacked. The Madrid fan base will always have a vocal element asking for change - but let's not forget that a sizable number even wanted Mourinho re-appointed. Zidane will stay.
 

Morty_

Full Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
2,813
Supports
Real Madrid
Ummm... Cristiano carried the attack, true - but his exit wasn't the end-all for the attack. Jovic has been a disaster and so has Hazard, but the team still has the potential to score goals. Cristiano was always going to be a loss, but Benzema stepped up and arguably, with Vini maturing, if Hazard and Jovic had been even competent professionals and no more, the attack would be fine. In defence, it's a different story.

Ramos isn't just the captain and the best CB at the club. He is the driving force, much more than Cristiano ever was. He holds the back line together, drives forward and also chips in with crucial goals at the other end. He was the second-highest scorer last season. Sure, that includes penalties, but they're important goals and show his cojones. Look at the Real Madrid record with and without Ramos and you start to understand his importance and impact. Don't think the comparable analysis for the team with and without Cristiano was ever this stark.



He won't be sacked. The Madrid fan base will always have a vocal element asking for change - but let's not forget that a sizable number even wanted Mourinho re-appointed. Zidane will stay.
"Carrying the attack" is no small part of the team, and even though in theory, others should step up, they lost pretty much exactly his goal/assist contribution each season.
Benzema was good in the last two seasons, but he didnt really "step up" as much as he returned to normal level, people forget, before the 16/17 and 17/18 seasons, Benzema scoring around 30 a season was completely normal(his statistical best was with Ronaldo, btw).

RM are not done as a top club, but they did lose a lot of firepower, and fear-factor with Ronaldo leaving, which is shown to full effect in CL, where they just aren`t a contender anymore, a lot of that has to do with Ronaldo leaving(though not completely).

Ramos, on the other hand, carries the defense(while contributing with key goals), and im well aware of their record without Ramos, he is incredibly important, and i do put him around the same level of influence as CR, Varane doesnt know what to do when Ramos isnt there.

There is a direct comparison to be made i believe btw, RM crumbled when Ronaldo was in bad form in la liga 17/18, no one else stepped up.

Sure, "bad form" vs "Not playing" isnt exactly the same, but there is still says something.
 

FootballHQ

Full Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Messages
18,139
Supports
Aston Villa
Would he really survive a dump into the europa?

Infact even that's not certain at all. Was expecting Real Madrid to be in weak group but seen they've still got to play Inter Milan twice so finishing bottom and being out of europe by xmas is very realistic if they don't turn it round and get a point tonight.
 

FootballHQ

Full Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Messages
18,139
Supports
Aston Villa
When was last time Real didn't make the knockouts?
They played in Uefa cup last in mid 90s IIRC.

Can't remember them ever going out of CL since they made it group stages although they had that 6-7 year run of always losing in last 16.
 

Morty_

Full Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
2,813
Supports
Real Madrid
Im used to disaster-classes in Europe without Ramos, but now they are happening even with him.
 

DWelbz19

Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Messages
33,745
Club needs a big reset, really. Nearly all of the players in it have won the CL a good 4 times or so, a few World Cups here and there... motivation must be a bit low.

It’s an awkward one, but the likes of Hakimi, Theo, Reguilon etc. who have been let go might’ve made sense as they were all financially prudent deals, but surely they’d have brought some freshness and willingness the side lacks at the moment?
 

Wayne's World

Full Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2010
Messages
9,259
Location
Ireland
They have the same problem since 2018. They haven't replaced Modric and Kroos who are both very much at the end of their careers. They need energy and defensively stabilty in their midfield and they don't have that. Literally If you are quick on the counter attack you will get a bunch of chances against them because nobody has the legs.

Should buy two top quality midfielders who can shield the defence better and they will be much improved
 

MrEleson

Full Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Messages
2,524
Madrid has a gigantic Ronaldo shaped void in their team. I think his departure has been a lot more pivotal than most people think as they simply don't have the goals or firepower anymore. They used to slaughter teams emphatically but these days they can barely score against the likes of Cadiz. I still maintain they would have likely won another CL if they didn't let him go.
 

bakalhau

Full Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2019
Messages
745
Madrid has a gigantic Ronaldo shaped void in their team. I think his departure has been a lot more pivotal than most people think as they simply don't have the goals or firepower anymore. They used to slaughter teams emphatically but these days they can barely score against the likes of Cadiz. I still maintain they would have likely won another CL if they didn't let him go.
I think it goes even further than that (I absolutely agree with everything you said). Their fire is gone. Which is exactly what Ronaldo had in spades.
 

Morty_

Full Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
2,813
Supports
Real Madrid
Madrid has a gigantic Ronaldo shaped void in their team. I think his departure has been a lot more pivotal than most people think as they simply don't have the goals or firepower anymore. They used to slaughter teams emphatically but these days they can barely score against the likes of Cadiz. I still maintain they would have likely won another CL if they didn't let him go.
I`d say they would have gotten past Ajax, the moment they meet that Liverpool-side though?
Yeah, bye bye, team was already on the decline, they wouldnt have been able to keep up with Liverpool.
 

InfiniteBoredom

Full Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2013
Messages
13,549
Location
Melbourne
They will struggle to be consistent this season but the Barca result and the comeback just now show that players are still playing for Zidane. If Perez doesn’t get itchy fingers, which is likely, I don’t think he’s in any real danger. May even win the league again.

They need to go on a spending spree though if they have serious CL ambition, which is a big ask in COVID time.
 

Pretzels81

Not Salty…
Newbie
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
1,766
They will end up 2nd or even 1st with the same points as Inter. Wait and see.

Borussia M. let them off the hook.
 

dbs235

Full Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Messages
1,871
Without Ronaldo they've become a normal big club, perfectly beatable on any day, just like the rest of the top clubs around Europe. During the 2010s to beat Madrid or Barca with Messi felt huge. Now it's pretty much become normal, the same way City or Liverpool or Juventus can easily lose.
 

giorno

boob novice
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
26,144
Supports
Real Madrid
Madrid has a gigantic Ronaldo shaped void in their team. I think his departure has been a lot more pivotal than most people think as they simply don't have the goals or firepower anymore. They used to slaughter teams emphatically but these days they can barely score against the likes of Cadiz.
True

I still maintain they would have likely won another CL if they didn't let him go.
How? Would he have magically turned Lopetegui into a manager good enough for real madrid? Cured half the team from their post world cup funk? Somehow turned Kroos and Modric and Marcelo back into their 2016/17 selves?
I`d say they would have gotten past Ajax, the moment they meet that Liverpool-side though?
Yeah, bye bye, team was already on the decline, they wouldnt have been able to keep up with Liverpool.
He went out against Ajax. While playing on a better team than that real madrid
 

Morty_

Full Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
2,813
Supports
Real Madrid
True


How? Would he have magically turned Lopetegui into a manager good enough for real madrid? Cured half the team from their post world cup funk? Somehow turned Kroos and Modric and Marcelo back into their 2016/17 selves?

He went out against Ajax. While playing on a better team than that real madrid
What i forgot to mention, my scenario also rely on Zidane staying, and yes, i do believe we would have gotten past Ajax if neither left, but not much further, because of the overall decline of the team.

Juve being a "better" team doesnt neccessarily translate to CL knockouts.
 

midnightmare

Full Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2015
Messages
1,228
Location
Midian
They have the same problem since 2018. They haven't replaced Modric and Kroos who are both very much at the end of their careers. They need energy and defensively stabilty in their midfield and they don't have that. Literally If you are quick on the counter attack you will get a bunch of chances against them because nobody has the legs.

Should buy two top quality midfielders who can shield the defence better and they will be much improved
You do realize that Toni is just 30, right? He’s not lost his legs - but there is a distinct lack of real competition. On the shield, I’m not sure I agree. With Case and Fede, there are options. The bigger issue really is how the system works ahead in combination and in the wide areas. Also, Fede can be too conservative at times - specially if Ramos is missing. Camavinga would be a good addition though, no doubt. Pogba would only worsen the issues.

I`d say they would have gotten past Ajax, the moment they meet that Liverpool-side though?
Yeah, bye bye, team was already on the decline, they wouldnt have been able to keep up with Liverpool.
The difference in that game was Ramos. No doubt about it in my mind. Swap Nacho for Ramos and Madrid win that - even under Santi.

I can understand people thinking this is all simply the Ronaldo gap but that’s not all it is. If Hazard (specially) and Jovic had been professional, don’t think there’d be so many issues. There’s no way that even Ronaldo could have covered every hole though, specially as he too isn’t immune to age. And it’s absolutely not like he’d strengthen the shield at the back.
 

RobinLFC

Cries when Liverpool doesn't get praised
Joined
May 20, 2014
Messages
20,807
Location
Belgium
Supports
Liverpool

At least their players still get along well...
 

Nani Nana

Full Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Messages
5,646
Supports
Whoever won the game

At least their players still get along well...
Karim Benzema stars in Netflix exclusive "The Last Tango". How intestine conflicts within Real Madrid caused a once-unbeatable side to fold.
 

(...)

Full Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2016
Messages
394
Supports
Arsenal
Benzema makes it really hard to support him. I love him as a player but despise him as a human being.
 

RoyH1

Full Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
5,887
Location
DKNY
While I do think Zidane is a quality manager, I think he's no longer the right man for the job there. He's an expert in big games, getting established superstars to perform at their best level. So perfect when Madrid had Ronaldo and Kroos/Modric/Marcelo were 5 years younger.

But right now Madrid has to transition to a changed football scene where tactics, physical endurance, and speed on all lines can negate any difference in overall skillset. I don't think Zidane is the manager to help them through that transition, specially in this economy and with their huge stadium project draining their coffers.
 

Cloud7

Full Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Messages
12,778
It'll be interesting to see how the rest of the group goes for them. Conte is just the sort of guy I can see getting a win and a draw against them at the very least.
 

Pep's Suit

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
1,705
They made some poor transfers. Hazard, obviously. But also all those young wingers like Vinicius, Brahim, Rodrygo etc. are crap. Plus they lack energy in midfield. However, 3-4 good signings and they'll be a Top3 club in Europe again.
 

MrEleson

Full Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Messages
2,524
How? Would he have magically turned Lopetegui into a manager good enough for real madrid? Cured half the team from their post world cup funk? Somehow turned Kroos and Modric and Marcelo back into their 2016/17 selves?
Well Lopetegui got fired early on so it wouldn't have had any impact on a potential CL triumph since the KOs are played towards the business end of the season and Madrid had no major issues qualifying from the group. It would have been similar to 15/16 when Benitez coached for the first few months before being replaced. And Julen was fired before the conclusion of the Groups.
He went out against Ajax. While playing on a better team than that real Madrid
Better team? Really? He scored every single one of Juve's goals in the KO stage that season, virtually without any help with Dybala missing and Mandzukic & Costa out injured. I think he would have killed for any one of Benzema, Marcelo, Modric, Kroos or Casemiro by his side. They were certainly better than their Juve counterparts (Keane, Sandro, Matuidi, Bentancur, Pjanic). Also, considering how bland and subdued Liverpool were in that final (even being aided by a dubious 1st min penalty), I think a Ronaldo-led Madrid stood a more than decent chance.
 

The holy trinity 68

The disparager
Joined
Apr 10, 2016
Messages
5,790
Location
Manchester
They made some poor transfers. Hazard, obviously. But also all those young wingers like Vinicius, Brahim, Rodrygo etc. are crap. Plus they lack energy in midfield. However, 3-4 good signings and they'll be a Top3 club in Europe again.
Vinicius isn’t crap, he is just a young 20 year old lad still learning.
 

kouroux

45k posts to finally achieve this tagline
Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Messages
95,709
Location
Djibouti (La terre des braves)
How would people react if Pogba told Martial not to pass the ball to Greenwood?
In a highly competitive context, players can get angry, vent and blame their teammates. Is it great ? No. Is it classy ? Definitely no but it's surely getting blown way out of proportion. Vinicius annoys the feck out of me and I want them to lose most of the time so imagine playing with him.