Zinedine Zidane - 3 time CL winning manager without a job

FatTails

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How would you all feel if he went on holiday while unemployed?
I am OK with it as long as he is not pictured all giddy and happy about it. Holidays ok, but I better see a miserable face throughout.
 

JPRouve

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You love a good argument.

"I know Zidane's English isn't very good from experience." It's no slant on Zidane that he cant speak English, most French, Spanish and Italians don't, the same as most English cant speak a second language.
It's not about being a slant, I personally have no clue outside of what Carvajal posted about Jovic. But when it comes to Giggs, he says that he didn't spoke/speak with Zidane and his experience is irrelevant it's not as if someone can't improve his command of a language which you are not going to know if you don't speak with them. So you can write it as large as you want but Giggs comments are pretty useless for us here.
 

SilentStrike

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I’m amazed this still pops us when you look at what he’s won at Real and the manner in which he’s done it.
I agree that he won a lot but the manner in which he won it was very underwhelming imo.

2016 felt like such an underwhelming victory, with the easiest route ever to the final and then winning on penalties.

2017 they were strong, but still needed luck in that infamous Victor Kassai disasterclass vs Bayern.

2018 they were again lucky with referees vs both Juve and Bayern, whilst also being totally outplayed by Bayern and needed help from the substitute GK and substitute RB to gift them two goals.

None of the victories felt like they were the absolute best team which was the case with Barca 2011, Bayern 2013 or Real 2014.

Even for a hattrick I just don't remember that team as being all that strong. Maybe in a few years nostalgia etc might change my mind but for now it just didn't seem that spectacular.
 

dinostar77

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Indeed. 2 league and 3 Champions League titles in 4,5 years is about as good as it gets.
In a 2 horse league with one of the world greatest players at his peak.

Didnt do too much at his 2nd stint without Ronaldo there. Would like to see him at another club that isnt Real Madrid.
 

The holy trinity 68

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In a 2 horse league with one of the world greatest players at his peak.

Didnt do too much at his 2nd stint without Ronaldo there. Would like to see him at another club that isnt Real Madrid.
He won the league in his 2nd stint and it is clearly a 3 horse league as Atletico just won it.

The 2nd stint although true wasn't as successful as his 1st, which isn't surprising as it would be near impossible to replicate 3 CL titles in 4 years, on top of a league title. It's not just because Ronaldo left though, it's also because the rest of his best players are old and past their best.

Ramos is 35, Marcelo is 33, Modric is 35, Kroos is 31, Benzema is 33. Zidane's successful 1st stint was just as much due to them all being in their prime as well as Ronaldo.
 

Redfrog

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I agree that he won a lot but the manner in which he won it was very underwhelming imo.

2016 felt like such an underwhelming victory, with the easiest route ever to the final and then winning on penalties.

2017 they were strong, but still needed luck in that infamous Victor Kassai disasterclass vs Bayern.

2018 they were again lucky with referees vs both Juve and Bayern, whilst also being totally outplayed by Bayern and needed help from the substitute GK and substitute RB to gift them two goals.

None of the victories felt like they were the absolute best team which was the case with Barca 2011, Bayern 2013 or Real 2014.

Even for a hattrick I just don't remember that team as being all that strong. Maybe in a few years nostalgia etc might change my mind but for now it just didn't seem that spectacular.
As Napoleon said, I have plenty of good generals, just give me a lucky one.
 

Rob

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In a 2 horse league with one of the world greatest players at his peak.

Didnt do too much at his 2nd stint without Ronaldo there. Would like to see him at another club that isnt Real Madrid.
How many horses in the Champions League?

And agreed on the last sentence. Juve, PSG or the French national team must be in pole position.
 

littleman

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The narrative ebbs and flows according to how much we like something.

When Z wins, we say he did nothing he just had the best team in the world.

When coaches lose with great teams like Poch/PSG, we say the coach sucked.

The tribalism is coloring good judgment.

Like every one in any competitive industry, you're only as good as your most recent stint. Even if there was luck, Z has bought himself plenty of credibility to try again next anywhere that wants it so.
 

Sayros

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I agree that he won a lot but the manner in which he won it was very underwhelming imo.

2016 felt like such an underwhelming victory, with the easiest route ever to the final and then winning on penalties.

2017 they were strong, but still needed luck in that infamous Victor Kassai disasterclass vs Bayern.

2018 they were again lucky with referees vs both Juve and Bayern, whilst also being totally outplayed by Bayern and needed help from the substitute GK and substitute RB to gift them two goals.

None of the victories felt like they were the absolute best team which was the case with Barca 2011, Bayern 2013 or Real 2014.

Even for a hattrick I just don't remember that team as being all that strong. Maybe in a few years nostalgia etc might change my mind but for now it just didn't seem that spectacular.
:rolleyes:
 

the_cliff

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I don't really buy into the luck factor with Zidane, this is the champions league we're talking about. You can get lucky once, but 3 times in 3 years ? add 2 la liga titles as well.
I bet City fans wish Pep were as lucky.
 

el3mel

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The narrative ebbs and flows according to how much we like something.

When Z wins, we say he did nothing he just had the best team in the world.

When coaches lose with great teams like Poch/PSG, we say the coach sucked.

The tribalism is coloring good judgment.

Like every one in any competitive industry, you're only as good as your most recent stint. Even if there was luck, Z has bought himself plenty of credibility to try again next anywhere that wants it so.
This is the story of Caf when it comes to evaluating most non United managers in nutshell.
 

SilentStrike

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:lol: Exactly.

Applying that logic, then many teams would be stripped off CL titles. I am sure somebody would find way to strip SAF 2 CL victories.
I never questioned the validity of the titles.

It's the guy I quoted who specifically praised "the manner in which they won", which imo was very underwhelming. Certainly not the level you'd expect from a hattrick winning CL team.
 

Sayros

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I never questioned the validity of the titles.

It's the guy I quoted who specifically praised "the manner in which they won", which imo was very underwhelming. Certainly not the level you'd expect from a hattrick winning CL team.
There's never been a hat-trick winning CL team, so there's no expectations to be had. It's part of what made your comment so ridiculous I could only roll my eyes at it.
 

ti vu

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I never questioned the validity of the titles.

It's the guy I quoted who specifically praised "the manner in which they won", which imo was very underwhelming. Certainly not the level you'd expect from a hattrick winning CL team.
I think by "manner" it implying the feat of 3 consecutive triumphs, which until that time, in CL version, nobody had been able to defend it. To keep motivation alone is a feat itself. Many managers have kept telling us how difficult it is to remain on top.
 

littleman

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RM won 3 CLs back-to-back. No team has ever won the modern CL back-to-back. They broke their own record.

OK, so the first win was a penalty shootout against a cagey Atletico Madrid, but the other 2 were straight wins.

"Manner".. pfft..
 

2 man midfield

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Let’s be honest, nobody wins 3 champions leagues without riding their luck. You very rarely win even one at a canter.

We’ve won 3 ever - and they all had huge slices of luck.
 

el3mel

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:lol: Exactly.

Applying that logic, then many teams would be stripped off CL titles. I am sure somebody would find way to strip SAF 2 CL victories.
I guess our CL win in 2008 doesn't count for some. We won it due to a John Terry slip, if we apply their logic.
 

Isotope

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Not to mention 3 consecutive win, no team ever won 2 consecutive CL before. Not even for the most beautiful football team ever, with the bestest GOATest player in all era playing for them.
 

JPRouve

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At this level what you judge is the ability to be in a position to win the CL regularly, of course you need a bit of luck to actually win, particularly when it comes to injuries and suspensions of key players but any manager that has his team in the CL semi final 4 times out of five is doing something correctly and better than most.
 

Iker Quesadillas

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In a 2 horse league with one of the world greatest players at his peak.
Didnt do too much at his 2nd stint without Ronaldo there. Would like to see him at another club that isnt Real Madrid.
This argument was made in the Guardiola thread, and it just isn't true. It's a logical thing to infer; it just doesn't match reality.

Real Madrid are notorious underperformers in league competition, especially under Perez. They have only won 3 league titles in the decade+ since he took over again. Two of them were won by Zinedine Zidane. Zidane won 2 Liga titles in 4 full seasons. Mourinho, Ancelotti, Pellegrini, etc. managed to win 1 in 6 seasons. Zidane actually got more points in La Liga in this 2nd stint than in his 1st (when counting the complete seasons only, tbf). If you did an "expected titles" for RM managers based on actual track record then Zidane clearly outperformed it.

Additionally, Ronaldo was not 'at his peak' when Zidane took over Real Madrid. He was almost 31 years old. His peak had passed. During that peak, RM had won 1 league title.
 

Raredaredevil

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He should manage Les Bleus now. This team is perfect for him, I'd say arguably more talented than his first Real Madrid team when he took over. Imagine all the attacking football he can bring into the table. Would be a joy to watch.
 

VorZakone

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He should manage Les Bleus now. This team is perfect for him, I'd say arguably more talented than his first Real Madrid team when he took over. Imagine all the attacking football he can bring into the table. Would be a joy to watch.
His first Real team had Benzema, Bale and Ronaldo which is better than Mbappe, Griezmann and Benzema.

His midfield 3 was also better: Kroos, Casemiro, Modric.

Ramos/Pepe/Varane also better than Varane/Kimpembe.

Carvajal + Marcelo miles better than Pavard+Hernandez.
 

Raees

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He should manage Les Bleus now. This team is perfect for him, I'd say arguably more talented than his first Real Madrid team when he took over. Imagine all the attacking football he can bring into the table. Would be a joy to watch.
Seems an ideal fit for both parties.
 

JJ12

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can’t see them binning Deschamps before the World Cup. His contract expires the month after it.

He was in line for an extension according to Julien Laurens.
 

Strelok

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Zidane is definitely a top manager imo. Being successful at Madrid consecutively is actually very difficult. People keep saying they're always very strong. Yes that's true but they also have a lot of huge egos, are very political and have one of the worst fanbases in the world with huge pressure. Aside from football matters a manager there always has to deal with a lot of non football issues. Zidane successfully dealt with all that and managed to win 3 CL was no easy feat. Of course him being one of the most successful and respected players in the world helped a lot imo. Imagine someone like Poch teaching the likes of Ramos what it takes to win a CL.

Tactically imo because of the current hype with pressing and possession football people generally look down a bit on him. They say he has no style of play. But that's simply ignorance. People got crazy with trend and hype but truth is there's not a best tactic. The best tactic is simply whatever bring out the best of the players available to you. In this regard Zidane is top imo.

He'll go to manage the French national team after the next WC I think but if Ole can't make it here I really want this guy.
 

redshaw

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When he came back to win the league again after the two failed managers and no Ronaldo to help, that should prove he's a top manager
 

jackal&hyde

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Zidane is definitely a top manager imo. Being successful at Madrid consecutively is actually very difficult. People keep saying they're always very strong. Yes that's true but they also have a lot of huge egos, are very political and have one of the worst fanbases in the world with huge pressure. Aside from football matters a manager there always has to deal with a lot of non football issues. Zidane successfully dealt with all that and managed to win 3 CL was no easy feat. Of course him being one of the most successful and respected players in the world helped a lot imo. Imagine someone like Poch teaching the likes of Ramos what it takes to win a CL.

Tactically imo because of the current hype with pressing and possession football people generally look down a bit on him. They say he has no style of play. But that's simply ignorance. People got crazy with trend and hype but truth is there's not a best tactic. The best tactic is simply whatever bring out the best of the players available to you. In this regard Zidane is top imo.

He'll go to manage the French national team after the next WC I think but if Ole can't make it here I really want this guy.
Agree with all of that. If you are not a tiki-taka or high press side you are rubbish tactically and a poor coach by todays media understanding of football. The standard of football understanding is just very poor imo with the new wave of journos that consider themselves as "analysts", have tactics shows, etc.

The wide availability of stats apps seems to have had a regressive effect on the understanding of the game rather then expanding it. Things like squad building, tactically adapting to the qualities of the players rather then forcing ideas not fit to the squad (Arteta), having plan Bs, not to mention man management are things that barely get a mention in most articles in the sea of pressing stats and all the "patterns of play" bs.