Zlatan Ibrahimovic vs Edinson Cavani - Comparing their United careers

[KeanoMagicHat]

I remember the shit Zlatan got while he was here from posters on here. Slated for scoring just 28 goals, "any other striker would have 40+", which obviously would have been 30+ if not for the injury.

He was a proper striker and leader for us who if anything was underrated.

If you look back though he missed a lot of chances, where he was key striker in games we drew where we should have won. We finished 6th in the league that season, which wasn't amazing. I credit him for making room for chances, his attacking movement was excellent, but Pogba and Mata gave him so many good chances which he missed. We only scored 54 goals in total in the league that season, which wasn't great for a team where he is the star attacker and dominated the ball. Some of the fault had to fall on him for that, since he is such a dominant figure, he must take the rough with the smooth and deserves some criticism for that.

And despite claims above that he was a key player in the Europa League, he didn't play the semi-finals or final because of injury, didn't score in the quarters or last 16. United were able to win the Europa League without him. Scored a hat-trick in the last 32, but Cavani's 4 goals over two legs against Roma in the semi-finals was more impressive. United were able to win the Europa League without him. I'd say Cavani was more impressive in last year's Europa League than Ibra was in that year's.

 

[Ixion]

If you look back though he missed a lot of chances, where he was key striker in games we drew where we should have won. We finished 6th in the league that season, which wasn't amazing. I credit him for making room for chances, his attacking movement was excellent, but Pogba and Mata gave him so many good chances which he missed. We only scored 54 goals in total in the league that season, which wasn't great for a team where he is the star attacker and dominated the ball. Some of the fault had to fall on him for that, since he is such a dominant figure, he must take the rough with the smooth and deserves some criticism for that.

And despite claims above that he was a key player in the Europa League, he didn't play the semi-finals or final because of injury, didn't score in the quarters or last 16. United were able to win the Europa League without him. Scored a hat-trick in the last 32, but Cavani's 4 goals over two legs against Roma in the semi-finals was more impressive. United were able to win the Europa League without him. I'd say Cavani was more impressive in last year's Europa League than Ibra was in that year's.

Every striker misses chances. Cavani missed a header against Villarreal he should have buried and one yesterday against Everton. People get obsessed with specific players missing chances and don't see it happening to others. It's like the shit Andy Cole used to get even though his chances to goals rate was as good as any other top striker. The idea Zlatan scored 28 goals but any other striker would have gotten 40+ is nonsense.

 

[GifLord]

Every striker misses chances. Cavani missed a header against Villarreal he should have buried and one yesterday against Everton. People get obsessed with specific players missing chances and don't see it happening to others. It's like the shit Andy Cole used to get even though his chances to goals rate was as good as any other top striker. The idea Zlatan scored 28 goals but any other striker would have gotten 40+ is nonsense.

Problem with ibrahimovic was it wasn't just 1 chance it was multiple per game. And then you had people openning threads ''why do goalkeepers turn into supermen when playing against us''
When he was literally shooting straight at the keeper

https://www.transfermarkt.de/zlatan-ibrahimovic/leistungsdaten/spieler/3455/plus/0?saison=2016
At one point he went over 540min without doing shit on the pitch.

 

[Ixion]

Problem with ibrahimovic was it wasn't just 1 chance it was multiple per game. And then you had people openning threads ''why do goalkeepers turn into supermen when playing against us''
When he was literally shooting straight at the keeper

https://www.transfermarkt.de/zlatan-ibrahimovic/leistungsdaten/spieler/3455/plus/0?saison=2016
At one point he went over 540min without doing shit on the pitch.

Again, all strikers go through goal droughts. None of this is exclusive to Ibrahimovic. Do you think Cavani, Rashford, Martial, Ronaldo (or Rooney, Ruud, Van Persie, Yorke, Cantona etc) haven't gone 6 games without a goal before?

Just go through the match stats that season, we weren't having more shots that season than any other season. We weren't creating more chances than we've ever created before. Its just the Andy Cole bullshit all over again.

 

[mitchmouse]

I remember the shit Zlatan got while he was here from posters on here. Slated for scoring just 28 goals, "any other striker would have 40+", which obviously would have been 30+ if not for the injury.

He was a proper striker and leader for us who if anything was underrated.

I said that if he hadn't been injured he'd have had that second season and then probably got one extra. He was a bloody joy to watch (so is Cavani, but we get given Martial instead!)

 

[BaneIsPain]

Both are good and will be remembered fondly. It would be nice if Cavani can win something too.

 

[el3mel]

Problem with ibrahimovic was it wasn't just 1 chance it was multiple per game. And then you had people openning threads ''why do goalkeepers turn into supermen when playing against us''
When he was literally shooting straight at the keeper

https://www.transfermarkt.de/zlatan-ibrahimovic/leistungsdaten/spieler/3455/plus/0?saison=2016
At one point he went over 540min without doing shit on the pitch.

You realize other players were also wasting ridiculous chances this season and not just him, and that's why people were asking such question, right ?

 

[EtH]

Like Mourinho I would rather just forget Zlatan was ever associated with the club. Total shithouse narcissist like Mourinho and cost us points time and again with his crap finishing. I swear he did my head in constantly trying to karate kick balls he could’ve simply headed. Showpony wanker.

 

[GifLord]

You realize other players were also wasting ridiculous chances this season and not just him, and that's why people were asking such question, right ?

He had sitters which he was wasting. Like some crazy sitters and people on here were going on some conspiracy hunt that goalkeepers turn into world beaters when playing against us. Not once did anyone criticize his poor finishing.

 

[el3mel]

He had sitters which he was wasting. Like some crazy sitters and people on here were going on some conspiracy hunt that goalkeepers turn into world beaters when playing against us. Not once did anyone criticize his poor finishing.

Others players also had ridiculous sitters that were wasting this year. Rashford, Lingard, Pogba, they were all wasting ridiculous chances. It wasn't a case of one player, so people were asking such questions. You're just targeting one player and ignoring the others, as usual.

 

[AndersB]

Like Mourinho I would rather just forget Zlatan was ever associated with the club. Total shithouse narcissist like Mourinho and cost us points time and again with his crap finishing. I swear he did my head in constantly trying to karate kick balls he could’ve simply headed. Showpony wanker.

Whoa. Are you an undercover pool fan or something?

 

[GifLord]

Others players also had ridiculous sitters that were wasting this year. Rashford, Lingard, Pogba, they were all wasting ridiculous chances. It wasn't a case of one player, so people were asking such questions. You're just targeting one player and ignoring the others, as usual.

I'm not and again it was multiple chances per game.
All the draws against Burnley, Everton, Watford, West Ham and Stoke have been also due to his inability to convert chances when it matters.

 

[el3mel]

I'm not and again it was multiple chances per game.
All the draws against Burnley, Everton, Watford, West Ham and Stoke have been also due to his inability to convert chances when it matters.

And the inability of his teammates to score their own chances as well.

 

[EtH]

Whoa. Are you an undercover pool fan or something?

What a stupid question. Are you a Zlatan fanboi then ? Or a Maureen apologist ?

Because both of those twats are no marks insofar as Manchester United Football Club is concerned.

 

[Fredo]

I love Cavani but Ibra is Ibra, if he didn't mess up his ACL I think he would have given us another proper season, 28 goals, 2 trophies, enough said.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I'm not and again it was multiple chances per game.
All the draws against Burnley, Everton, Watford, West Ham and Stoke have been also due to his inability to convert chances when it matters.

You need to go through his goals and look at how many of them won us the game, we were poor that season and he bailed us out time and time again. To suggest he cost us points, whilst overlooking all the others he won is poor form and that goes towards any player, even dislikeable ones. Cavani has hardly been amazing at finishing either (as all the PSG watchers warned us) so I don't really get this criticism when comparing the two.

 

[Firefly]

Like some crazy sitters and people on here were going on some conspiracy hunt that goalkeepers turn into world beaters when playing against us. Not once did anyone criticize his poor finishing.

You do realise that alot(99,9%) of that was just banter right?

Pretty sure alot of people were criticizing that.

 

[AndersB]

What a stupid question. Are you a Zlatan fanboi then ? Or a Maureen apologist ?

Because both of those twats are no marks insofar as Manchester United Football Club is concerned.

This is the thing: I don't subscribe to this kind of rhetoric with regards to our players, managers or whatever. 'Apologist'. 'Fanboi'. 'Twat'. It creates the sort of aggressive climate where fans start talking about how they hate some of our players, for example. Ibra came and did a pretty decent job for us, all things considered. In my opinion of course. You can disagree, but no reason to portray him or others as some sort of ultimate villain

 

[Ixion]

I'm not and again it was multiple chances per game.
All the draws against Burnley, Everton, Watford, West Ham and Stoke have been also due to his inability to convert chances when it matters.

Yorke went 7 games without a goal in the run-in of the Treble season. No one gives a shit because he scored 29.

Ibra going 6 games without a goal while going on to get 28 means nothing.

There is some weird mythical idea that in 2017 we created more chances per game than we ever had in our history or something and Ibrahimovic got more chances than any other striker ever.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

There is some weird mythical idea that in 2017 we created more chances per game than we ever had in our history or something and Ibrahimovic got more chances than any other striker ever.

Yup. And from what I remember, none of the actual stats backed up this idea that we were super-unlucky with finishing that season.

This is that thing football fans do where every single chance a striker misses is held up as poor finishing and proof he should have scored even more goals that season - we're seeing multiple posts here along the lines of "28 goals is well and good, but Ibrahimovic should have scored 40 when you consider all the chances he missed" - but nobody mentions the goals he actually did convert from low-quality chances.

Did he miss a few easy chances? Absolutely - every attacker does (example: even Ronaldo this season has missed at least 3 or 4 easy chances to go with his 5 goals). Did he also win us points with excellent finishes? Absolutely - off the top of my head, he scored the opener against Sunderland, that lovely lob against Everton, quality headers against Southampton and West Brom, and a stoppage-time winner against Palace. Can't have your cake and eat it by saying "nah, those don't count, the misses are all we care about".

Overall, Ibrahimovic actually over-performed his XG that season. This idea that we made a lot of chances for him* and he missed too many is incorrect.

*There was a related argument that having him as the focal point of the attack actually hindered us and made the whole team too predictable. That I can get behind somewhat, as we replaced him with the quicker Lukaku the next season and scored significantly more goals - although it's worth noting the XG barely changed, so it's not like we suddenly became a good attacking unit without Zlatan. The main reason we won so many more games in 2017/18 was likely De Gea's superman act in goal.

 

[Cloud7]

Both are good and will be remembered fondly. It would be nice if Cavani can win something too.

Agreed. Both are two of the best strikers of the generation gone by and I'm really glad we've gotten a chance to see them both at United.

 

[GifLord]

Yorke went 7 games without a goal in the run-in of the Treble season. No one gives a shit because he scored 29.

Ibra going 6 games without a goal while going on to get 28 means nothing.

There is some weird mythical idea that in 2017 we created more chances per game than we ever had in our history or something and Ibrahimovic got more chances than any other striker ever.

We drew 15 games that season in EPL alone
Stoke and Everton H & A, West Ham, Burnley, Bournemouth, Hull, Liverpool, City.. in 10 of them Ibra played the full 90min and scored 4 goals / 0 assists
He had numerous chances in these games - even missed a pen vs Bournemouth which we then drew 1-1

 

[EtH]

This is the thing: I don't subscribe to this kind of rhetoric with regards to our players, managers or whatever. 'Apologist'. 'Fanboi'. 'Twat'. It creates the sort of aggressive climate where fans start talking about how they hate some of our players, for example. Ibra came and did a pretty decent job for us, all things considered. In my opinion of course. You can disagree, but no reason to portray him or others as some sort of ultimate villain

Not trying to portray him as such. But the long and short of it is like Mourinho I along with many others thought he was a twat for years prior. And neither of them suddenly became decent blokes just because they signed for United.

 

[Ixion]

We drew 15 games that season in EPL alone
Stoke and Everton H & A, West Ham, Burnley, Bournemouth, Hull, Liverpool, City.. in 10 of them Ibra played the full 90min and scored 4 goals / 0 assists
He had numerous chances in these games - even missed a pen vs Bournemouth which we then drew 1-1

You''re just saying nonsense. "He had numerous chances in these games", what is numerous? Give me stats, did he miss 5,6,7 chances in those 15 games?

EVERY striker misses chances. Ibrahomvic does not get more chances than any other striker, we did not create more chances in that season than any other.

Again Yorke who went 7 without a goal in 99 also missed a penalty against Arsenal, are you still not over that? Is Yorke shit?

 

[Abraxas]

Zlatan did extremely well as we hardly seemed to create a lot at the time. He's a proper talisman and capable of all kinds of goals. I don't remember our play being as free flowing as people are claiming. All strikers miss some chances, I don't remember it being anything out of the ordinary but we were a stuttering side.

However I do prefer Cavani overall, for us. I think he gives a bit more flexibility. He can run the channels, pull wide, you can see him playing with pretty much anybody. He's often had to pull wide in his career with people like Suarez around and you can see that. He can also score the box goals and he works hard.

Zlatan was more akin to Ronaldo currently. You are going to have to run for him whereas I don't think Cavani requires any allowances.

 

[Tomuś]

Like Mourinho I would rather just forget Zlatan was ever associated with the club. Total shithouse narcissist like Mourinho and cost us points time and again with his crap finishing. I swear he did my head in constantly trying to karate kick balls he could’ve simply headed. Showpony wanker.

Never liked Zlatan and yeah - he is a shithouse but he was rather good for us come on.

 

[EtH]

Never liked Zlatan and yeah - he is a shithouse but he was rather good for us come on.

He was decent but his finishing left a lot to be desired. Let’s be honest.

 

[Cardboard elk]

Zlatan is for me a great player, specially I love many of the spectacular goals and his great volleys. People also tend to forget that when he was younger he was very good at dribbling and getting past defenders too.
And for critizing his karate kick finishes etc.. how many such great goals he scored. Stuff that makes football great to watch.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

When a striker gets 28 goals by March you can’t say he hasn’t done his job for the team, just like Rooney sometimes got the blame for us not winning anything in his 2 best scoring seasons.

RvP also went something like 11 games without scoring in all comps in his first season here, the difference then was he had Rooney and Hernandez to step in and remedy that.

 

[Tomuś]

He was decent but his finishing left a lot to be desired. Let’s be honest.

He messed some chances, yes. He also scored some goals out of his arse tbf. The nature of him I guess.