Waaay more. He's never been close to Ibra's level, nevermind Lewandowski or fecking Suarez the guy who at his peak was the third best player seen this millenium
Zlatan
- Thread starter FujiVice
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Yeah. There's no chance I take Agüero over Zlatan. Zlatan was easily better.
No one said Aguero is at Suarez, Lewa level. Well done for imaginary argument.
Granted he's very divisive - he's either Van Basten v2 or Berbatov - but I don't think he's that well rated on here on the whole.
The ignorance. Serie A was still the best league in the world when Zlatan joined. Its decline was not the reason for his performances. And he was not just one of the strikers in the Serie A, when he came back from Barcelona he was considered too good for the league. Money and football moved, but imagine if Zlatan won 8 league titles with 3 clubs in the PL in the manner he has done it in Italy and the discussion around here would be very different. Or if he scored 62 goals for a title winning France. The thing with his years in PSG is that he established them as a force and never let the standard slip. 4 league titles in 4 years, 5 cups. Since then they lost two and this season missed out on both cups.
What to do with this longlivity argument? Zlatan was 27-28 when he joined Barcelona, Henry 29-30. Zlatan is born 1981 and Rooney 1985. They both lost pace. Maybe there is else to their different performances than physics?
The point here is that the myth and Ibrahimovic peculiar career between different kind of tresholds of old money and new, a passing football culture and an emerging, over-shadows how dominant he has been or is. It seems that his brash persona and un-orthodox career keeps getting in the way to see the player, rather than the opposite.
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Suarez is now the 3rd best player of all-time?
What? No. He's the third best player of the 2000s, at his peak
Er wasn't it Eto in the center and Messi on the right? Or did I get that wrong.
Lewandowski is better than Suarez. Lewandowski just scores everywhere. Suarez has been very disappointing in the Champions League.
In his prime, Robert Lewandowski was the main man in a sextuple triumph winning player of the Tournament in every competition.
In his best year, he has the same number of goals as Ronaldo has in his best year.
Now let's talk about attributes, a lot of people who haven't watched Lewandowski dismiss his all round game but it's amazing how complete Lewandowski is as a lone striker in any system. Whether it's in a possession system like Guardiola or a high pressing system like Klopp or Flick; man was scoring for fun under Kovac too. Benzema and Lewandowski are the 2 strikers of the modern era who don't seem to have any weaknesses in their game(if we ignore Benzema's inconsistent finishing for a few seasons).
For a team like Poland where he has no service, Lewandowski has close to 80 goals and 25 assists. On the way to becoming 2nd top international scorer after Ronaldo.
Lewandowski has 7 40+ goal seasons now. Only Messi(10) and Ronaldo(9) have more. Insane consistency and reliability. 3rd highest active goalscorer now crossing Zlatan's tally.
Suarez is more unpredictable but Lewandowski is more unique and elegant. While they are both the standout strikers of this generation, Lewandowski has now surpassed Suarez.
600 plus goals at 33 and still in his prime is amazing.
Also, wouldn't you say that Xavi and Iniesta are better than Suarez?
I don't remember Messi sticking to one place on the pitch. Maybe on formation he was on the right but actually I remember him having the freedom to roam around the attacking line and playing as a shadow striker.
Henry was still shifted out wide though, because there was no place for him otherwise to accommodate the others.
Yeah okay. Being a wide forward though isn't really problematic though unless you lack the attributes. Henry was more suited to it than Zlatan.
Barcelona is a red herring here for Henry and Ibrahimovic. It's practically irrelevant when considering their careers given Henry was physically past his best while Ibrahimovic wasn't a great tactical fit with Messi. Both players produced 95% of their best football elsewhere.
It was never a choice in that sense though. Ibrahimovic never refused because moving him out wide was never on the table.
I'm not saying it's problematic. I'm replying to the point Henry flopped at Barca. I know he wasn't a huge success there but he wasn't playing in the position he is used to and had to change his playstyle for the team.
Henry still had a fairly decent record in his 1st two seasons at Barca even though it wasn't the best version of him. Anyways won't talk more about Henry.
Don't know he is considered overrated. He was scoring cracking goals before he joined City and if he hadn't struggled with chronic injury problems he would have even far deadlier than he was. Wasn't the same player for Argentina though but still one of the best of his era in a era of great strikers.
All this talk about 2000s strikers and not even a mention for the guy who placed top 10 in Ballon d'or for 6 out of 7 years in a row (winning it once) and dragged his tiny (by stature) nation to a World Cup quarterfinal.
Michael Owen?
Shevchenko? Yeah he was such a brilliant striker.
For the past six months I played without an ACL in my left knee.
Swollen knee for six months.
I was only able to train with the team 10 times in the last six months.
Took more than 20 injections in six months.
Emptied the knee once a week for six months.
Painkillers every day for six months.
Barely slept for six months because of the pain.
Never suffered so much on and off the pitch.
I made something impossible to something possible.
In my mind I had only one objective, to make my teammates and coach champions of Italy because I made them a promise.
Today I have a new ACL and another trophy.
Swollen knee for six months.
I was only able to train with the team 10 times in the last six months.
Took more than 20 injections in six months.
Emptied the knee once a week for six months.
Painkillers every day for six months.
Barely slept for six months because of the pain.
Never suffered so much on and off the pitch.
I made something impossible to something possible.
In my mind I had only one objective, to make my teammates and coach champions of Italy because I made them a promise.
Today I have a new ACL and another trophy.
Dead seriousOk
Worth clarifying that you're quoting Zlatan there, rather than recounting an delirious commitment to a Sunday League team
Wowza, that's high praise indeed from a Madrid fan. You reckon he was THAT good a player? When?
Good luck tomorrow by the way.
2011-2016 yeah. Between 2013-2016 reached a higher level than i've seen from Henry, Dinho, Zidane, Xavi or Robben
Taking that many painkillers for a long period of time has also many side effects. Hate him or love him, there aren't many as old as him playing like he is in the history of the game
CL may not be a marker alone but it counts. To all your points, Henry's legacy would have been much higher if he didn't shit the bed with Arsenal in the CL.If we are talking about the CL as the marker of success in a player's career (which it isn't), Henry is the definition of shitting the bed - he could have won Arsenal the CL in Paris and he choked. Twice.
His CL win with Barca came because of Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol etc - not something Henry should take full credit for. He was mostly a passenger.
With France he rode the coattails of Zidane and co also - the one time Zidane was injured and Henry was expected to assume leadership, the team got bounced in the group.
Zlatan is overrated but I prefer him to Henry
I am Ajax fan and absolutely love Suarez, but I cant agree with this. Suarez has been phenomanol but not better than peak Zidane, Robben or even Iniesta (massively underrated). Moreover obviously not better than peak Ronaldinho. When we're only talking peak, Ronaldinho is right up there with Ronaldo, Messi and other GOATs. Ronaldinho was absolutely insane, but that lasted just 2-3 years and this is the reason he's not in any GOAT discussion when whole carreers are considered.
Robben doesnt deserve to be up there with the others, but no chance Suarez was better than Zidane and Ronaldinho on their peaks. He was a better goal scoarer and in insane form, yes.
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We seem to already have enough on our plate with the -on topic- wildly different opinions on Zlatan.
I found it very interesting @giorno as a Real fan and thus with a keen and vested interest when watching Zidane, Figo, Ronaldinho, Xaviesta on a weekly basis would place Suárez there.
It's not something I'd do, but I wasn't in his shoes this last couple of decades. Quite remarkable, such a shame that bang in the heart of that peak the daft fecker managed to get himself suspended for an entire World Cup and two Copa Américas
Actually, maybe no international football gave him a freshness and edge others didn't enjoy as I'd hazard a guess much of his rating has to do with consistency and sustained peak performance, not peak highlights.
I don't know man, maybe you're giving him too much credit, I'm not sure if he was even better than lewa's peak nevermind being the best after messi/Ronaldo.
I think he was. Personally i also think Ronaldinho is a bit overrated. He was amazing, sure, but not really *that* amazing. It was more the combination of spectacular and effective that made him appear better than he was. I don't think his peak was higher than Kaka's for example, not by any significant measure at least. Suarez dragged Uruguay to a Copa, had the single most absurd individual season in PL - possibly british football - history, had a freaking 59 goals season after moving to barcelona...
For me, at his best he was better. The closest thing we've seen to Messi and Cristiano
I mean fair enough but I just don't see it.
Ronaldinho Might been over rated ( he definitely lacked the work ethic) but even then o don't see how his peak might have been better than the likes of which Zidane, robben,xavi, Iniesta and more recently Lewandowski hit.
I think that combination up front with Messi and neymar made him look a lot better than what he was (which was sublime to begin with)as it really played to his strengths.
I always felt he could dissappear in the big games and his game to be limited at times compared to say lewa, and I might be on rose tinted glasses here but was he better than Shevchenko? I feel overall he is better suited to best striker of post millennium discussion than the best after the duopoli of messi/Ronaldo.
But yeah statistic wise your right that 59 goal season is the best from a pure statistical point of view after Ronaldo and Messi.
I wouldnt say he was even the second best player in the MSN trio. And you look at Ronaldinhos peak with some strange glasses, of course he was a more complete, skilled and influentual player than Suarez in his prime. For a short while he ran games with every touch of the ball, also the biggest of them.
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Millennium is 1000 years, so that's why I was poking fun
Ibrahimovic is Haalands idol
And now he is a movie star.
So what? Del Piero and Henry are Lewandowski's idols and he has surpassed both a while back.
The idol argument hardly has any weight. Haaland also admired Michu growing up....Means zilch.....
If only he were half as good and / or interesting as he and his fanboys think he is.
Wannabe Cantona.
People who get angry about Ibra are as cringe as the people who worship him. Just both annoying extremes.
His "God"-talk would hold a little more weight if he actually accomplished something in UCL, top player but his record in UCL is underwhelming tbh.
Yeah, he might be joking, but i'm not so sure its entirely him playing a character.
Yeah, he might be joking, but i'm not so sure its entirely him playing a character.