Over the Bar - Episode 14!

MikeUpNorth

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Episode 14 of the unofficial Redcafe podcast, Over the Bar, is now available (runtime: 42:20).

The line up is me, Mockney, PeterStorey and GoldenBlunder. We remember (barely) the Everton and Besiktas games, look back on Henry's hand ball, the role of the media and youth development.



Alternatively you can subscribe to the podcast using this address: 'http://overthebar.libsyn.com/rss'. Or just search for 'Over the Bar' in the iTunes store.

[podcast]http://cdn4.libsyn.com/overthebar/Over_the_Bar_-_Episode_14.mp3[/podcast]
Direct download link: Over the Bar - Episode 14

Do it to us on email at overthebar@redcafe.net or follow us on
 

Spoony

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Listening to this at the mo. Have to say it's quality once again. Nice one Mike and the other spastics.
 

Spoony

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Agreed about the media - not just confined to football sadly. Can't wait for the first 'Muslims ban Xmas' headline this winter. We should stop calling them newspapers, frankly. But yeah the Henry handball was blown out of all proportion.
 

MikeUpNorth

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Agreed about the media - not just confined to football sadly. Can't wait for the first 'Muslims ban Xmas' headline this winter. We should stop calling them newspapers, frankly. But yeah the Henry handball was blown out of all proportion.
Yeah we've seen a few such incidents this season, the Eduardo diving ban being the other obvious example of a media-lead storm. I don't think the newspaper business model will last too much longer anyway.
 

esmufc07

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I think Mike, Mockney, Geebs and Pete is the best line-up on the Podcast. Good camaraderie between you all which is good to listen to.

Spoony I'm sorry, it was a close-call between you and Mockney, but Mockney just edges it purely on the fact I like him.
 

Spoony

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Yeah we've seen a few such incidents this season, the Eduardo diving ban being the other obvious example of a media-lead storm. I don't think the newspaper business model will last too much longer anyway.
Internet?

And yeah they have too much control over the public. I also watch the Sunday Supplement. . .and I can't believe these so called journalists are in jobs. Either they're very stupid or they've simply got agendas - I think it's a combination of the two.
 

Plechazunga

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Good fun that one.

I like the way when someone's talking bollocks, Mike sounds like he's having trouble stopping himself literally bursting out laughing at how stupid they are.

It even comes across in writing, I've noticed it a few times when I've been struggling to marshal my thoughts or talking outright nonsense in the CE forum... but it's nice to hear the real life version, directed at Mockers...

I think Mike, Mockney, Geebs and Pete is the best line-up on the Podcast. Good camaraderie between you all which is good to listen to.

Spoony I'm sorry, it was a close-call between you and Mockney, but Mockney just edges it purely on the fact I like him.
Harsh on some of the others, especially Brad, he's great value
 

Spoony

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I think Mike, Mockney, Geebs and Pete is the best line-up on the Podcast. Good camaraderie between you all which is good to listen to.

Spoony I'm sorry, it was a close-call between you and Mockney, but Mockney just edges it purely on the fact I like him.
He hates you. And I thought you were going to join the podcast team?
 

esmufc07

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Good fun that one.

I like the way when someone's talking bollocks, Mike sounds like he's having real trouble stopping himself literally bursting out laughing at how stupid they are.

It even comes across in writing, I've noticed it a few times when I've been struggling to marshal my thoughts or talking outright nonsense in the CE forum... but it's nice to hear the real life version, directed at Mockers...



Harsh on some of the others, especially Brad, he's great value
I'm not holding anything against the others, everyone who has appeared has done a great job, and Brad I enjoy listening to, but I think I prefer this line-up.

Obviously I am wrong.
 

MikeUpNorth

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A genuine caf legend will probably be making his first appearance on the show next week...
 

MikeUpNorth

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What did you make of my objections to the loan system for players under the age of 21? Not sure I expressed it particularly well, I may make a thread on it.
 

FlawlessThaw

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Haven't actually heard the pod yet as I just strolled in, what's the idea behind it? To stop putting a significant amount of pressure on young shoulders?
 

MikeUpNorth

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Haven't actually heard the pod yet as I just strolled in, what's the idea behind it? To stop putting a significant amount of pressure on young shoulders?
No, to stop clubs hoarding young players. I don't like clubs buying youngsters from the lower leagues and then loaning them straight back out for a few years. If you banned loans for purchased under-21 players, it would stop clubs buying well in advance of needing the players.
 

FlawlessThaw

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No, to stop clubs hoarding young players. I don't like clubs buying youngsters from the lower leagues and then loaning them straight back out for a few years. If you banned loans for purchased under-21 players, it would stop clubs buying well in advance of needing the players.
Agree that you wouldn't want clubs just pickpocketing a large number of youngsters and placing them around the world. I guess a way round it would be to make sure if a club signs a player they would not be able to loan him out until the next transfer window.

Clubs could easily circumvent the ruling by just having a signing date put back by two years. So a player could agree to join say Chelsea but in two years time.
 

MikeUpNorth

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I did

AND HE DOES!

It's about 1/4 the way through. He definitely refers to United, or should I say Man Utd, as 'we'! :D
"Because we had players like Ronaldo and Rooney and Fabregas playing as regulars when they were 18..."

Seems like he's just using 'we' in the general football fan sense. Good spot though.
 

B Cantona

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Mike Mike Mike

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of lower league football! (well you did until you changed your viewpoint, I think, right at the end!)

It's not an 'old boys club'. When has getting an under 21 from one of the top clubs guaranteed promotion? It doesn't. The clubs taking them are taking a risk themselves. These are raw players. They take them on, and are probably anticipated to play them a certain amount of time. They might add some quality to the side, but they might also flop

Either way, it provides a lower league club with a non transfer fee player, you potentially have a better quality of player in the lower league. If it turns out the player isn't good enough for United / whoever loaned them, which is more often the case, there's a reasonable chance the player might go back to that loan team. Or at the very least, they've had some experience of lower league football, and of the demands required to play at that particular level of the game

Many lower league clubs would struggle to survive without loan players. It's part of the game, and an important one in many senses. I'd have one of our players play in the lower league for a season rather than reserve football any day of the week. And I know if I'm going down to the Dale, I'm looking forward to seeing a United loanee. You're making it out to be unfair, and I just can't see how that's the case!
 

Ceks

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Mike Mike Mike

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of lower league football! (well you did until you changed your viewpoint, I think, right at the end!)

It's not an 'old boys club'. When has getting an under 21 from one of the top clubs guaranteed promotion? It doesn't. The clubs taking them are taking a risk themselves. These are raw players. They take them on, and are probably anticipated to play them a certain amount of time. They might add some quality to the side, but they might also flop

Either way, it provides a lower league club with a non transfer fee player, you potentially have a better quality of player in the lower league. If it turns out the player isn't good enough for United / whoever loaned them, which is more often the case, there's a reasonable chance the player might go back to that loan team. Or at the very least, they've had some experience of lower league football, and of the demands required to play at that particular level of the game

Many lower league clubs would struggle to survive without loan players. It's part of the game, and an important one in many senses. I'd have one of our players play in the lower league for a season rather than reserve football any day of the week. And I know if I'm going down to the Dale, I'm looking forward to seeing a United loanee. You're making it out to be unfair, and I just can't see how that's the case!
What do you suggest we do with a player like Wilshere, I think it could damage him if he went out on loan to a football league side, but I know that he wants to, as he really just wants to play football week in week out. He can't get that at Arsenal, yet, so how do you deal with this as a manager. Jack will want to start seeing some action soon, or he will be knocking on Wengers door demmanding a loan. The kid is desperate to play.
 

MikeUpNorth

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Brad, my point is this. Any player at a lower league club with a hint of potential about them is bought for relative peanuts by a big club. The big club will often then loan this player out for several seasons, before they are either ready to feature for the first team or be sold on. This strikes me as fundamentally unfair and not an insignificant reason why it's very rare for a smaller club to grow in stature without massive financial backing. Small clubs receive little benefit from developing good young players.

If clubs weren't allowed to loan out players under the age of 21 who they'd purchased (i.e. Arsenal could still loan out Wilshere for example as they developed him themselves) it would stop them buying promising youngsters until they are actually needed. This has several benefits for football. Firstly the lower league club keeps their promising youngsters for longer, and secondly they will get a bigger fee when the player is sold on at an older age than is currently the norm.