[TMDaines]

I'm amazed at the number of people that think that getting out of the Europea League earlier will bode well for the domestic campaign.

If we go out at the group stage, the last 32 or even the last 16 of the Europa League, we won't be winning the Premier League or finishing second in all likelihood. Peformance in the Europa League will be just as highly indicative of where we currently stand as games in the Premier League are. The number of sides who can turn it on and off, focusing on what they consider key games, and who are successful in doing so are very few in number. Most top sides build up a winning mentality and go deep, or attempt to go deep, in every competition they enter. The idea that we are anywhere near good enough to pick and choose what we want to win is ludicrous.

We could be very good in the Premier League for the rest of the season and still only finish second or third, or even fourth: the competition is tough. Give me an FA Cup, a League Cup or Europa League over anything apart from winning the league.

 

[VorZakone]

The overreaction is so unnecessary, it's just the fecking Europa League.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

In the interest of balance, having spectacularly (and drunkenly) lost my shit last night, if the linesman had done his job we'd be talking about a dour European away draw against in form opposition that would have happened often enough, even in the golden era of life under Fergie. The complete lack of creativity was depressingly similar to the last couple of seasons but we did at least look hard to break down, despite Rojo stinking the place out at left back. Under Van Gaal, we regularly got torn apart by mediocre European teams. That wasn't the case last night and is one tiny bit of positivity, at least, to cling onto.

 

[SV_Planegg]

I think this is why Jose likes working with a small squad. He will have his 18 players, which will only change through injury, suspensions. I think you might find he will be tempted to use those 18 in all games now and some players will be frozen out completely. Not just BFS. As people said the CB's were fine as was Herrera. Morgan started well but faded, which is hardly surprising. The fullbacks were bad, Darmian because he just doesn't suit United, not that he is a bad player. Rojo however is just plain atrocious. Mata unless we play a No.10 offers nothing wide in a team that needs pace injected. We have too many No. 10's. Martial is seriously short of form and confidence at the moment. I hope it comes back soon.
Talksport actually for once made a good point this morning about Pogba, that he like Modric when he first came, has to get used to the PL. Modric was hopeless in his first season. Yes Paul was at United as a kid, but to say he is used to the PL at first team level is not true.

No one here is slating him for league performances. There's a difference between Serie A and the PL and it might take a while for him adapt to the slightly higher intensity and speed in pretty much every game, but Feyenoord is no PL team so why bring that up? Feyenoord came in third in the Eredivisie last season 19 Points behind Ajax and 21 points behind PSV Eindhoven. Ajax got dominated in the CL qualifiers by FK Rostov, who just got played off the park by Bayern 5:0. I know this doesn't tell the whole story but it should give you a rough estimate on which level Feyenoord's football is located and United should aim far higher than that.

Tonight I wrote "Champions don't play like this". What I meant was that truely great teams take every competition seriously. If Bayern, Barca or Juve had played against Feyenoord yesterday they'd have gone for the kill from the start because they just know they are that much better than the opponent and will let them feel it from start to finish. That belief was what I missed from United yesterday. There was noch urgency, no intent, no belief whatsoever to be seen in that side and the manager who was supposed to bring in a new self-conception namely that of champions let the opponents play their game and gain confidence instead of pressuring them. That's just not good enough and I hope Mou can sort things out sooner rather than later.

 

[carlosp]

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/feyenoord-vs-manchester-united.421562/page-41#post-19801564

New watched the game last night due to it being my birthday and I was out with friends. However looking at the goal, why was Rojo and Smalling so far out of position? We can't have two of our defenders out of place. One yes but two is a crime. No one tracked the goal scorer in midfield too. Shocking.

Linesman should have called of side though. Really bad from his side.

 

[Stretford End Phil]

For many older fans who went through 4 dreadful seasons and then relegation, or the poor early years of Fergie, they tend not to panic over a few games. They don't shit face the players or the manager, and certainly don't recommend we play like the Bitters or some other worthless shit. Some fans have played high level football and realise how poor decisions by officials can turn a game. There are also many younger fans who know exactly who they're supporting and love the great culture of our club and maintain their enthusiasm even when we lose. This group of fans revel in great debate and discussion and are what I would recognise as true reds.

But, its pretty clear now that many modern fans don't have any of these qualities and as a consequence are just fair weather fans who spout shite from one week to the next.

In my opinion there are a lot of true fans out there who want to be part of a good forum where there is strong debate but are quite sickened by the shite posts of many modern posters - this thread being the most obvious manifestation. In the end it comes down to the mods, forums need some shaping and some so-called fans need to feck off and join the Bitters or the Scousers if all they can do is bitch and moan match after match.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/feyenoord-vs-manchester-united.421562/page-41#post-19801564

New watched the game last night due to it being my birthday and I was out with friends. However looking at the goal, why was Rojo and Smalling so far out of position? We can't have two of our defenders out of place. One yes but two is a crime. No one tracked the goal scorer in midfield too. Shocking.

Linesman should have called of side though. Really bad from his side.

Morgan is getting the blame for not tracking the goalscorer.

 

[LFC-Fans]

For many older fans who went through 4 dreadful seasons and then relegation, or the poor early years of Fergie, they tend not to panic over a few games. They don't shit face the players or the manager, and certainly don't recommend we play like the Bitters or some other worthless shit. Some fans have played high level football and realise how poor decisions by officials can turn a game. There are also many younger fans who know exactly who they're supporting and love the great culture of our club and maintain their enthusiasm even when we lose. This group of fans revel in great debate and discussion and are what I would recognise as true reds.

But, its pretty clear now that many modern fans don't have any of these qualities and as a consequence are just fair weather fans who spout shite from one week to the next.

In my opinion there are a lot of true fans out there who want to be part of a good forum where there is strong debate but are quite sickened by the shite posts of many modern posters - this thread being the most obvious manifestation. In the end it comes down to the mods, forums need some shaping and some so-called fans need to feck off and join the Bitters or the Scousers if all they can do is bitch and moan match after match.

Well said.
(Aside from the join the accusers part, but I get the jist)

 

[stevoc]

I guess that what happens when one side treats the game like a cup final and the other treats it like a friendly. They were shit but we were a bit shittier. Couldn't care less about that competition. What I didn't like was that Pogba, Herrera and Bailly played the full 90 with a league game coming up in three days.

That shouldn't really be a big deal we played largely the same side every wednesday - saturday in the CL for years.

Thursday-Sunday is the same time between matches.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

For many older fans who went through 4 dreadful seasons and then relegation, or the poor early years of Fergie, they tend not to panic over a few games. They don't shit face the players or the manager, and certainly don't recommend we play like the Bitters or some other worthless shit. Some fans have played high level football and realise how poor decisions by officials can turn a game. There are also many younger fans who know exactly who they're supporting and love the great culture of our club and maintain their enthusiasm even when we lose. This group of fans revel in great debate and discussion and are what I would recognise as true reds.

But, its pretty clear now that many modern fans don't have any of these qualities and as a consequence are just fair weather fans who spout shite from one week to the next.

In my opinion there are a lot of true fans out there who want to be part of a good forum where there is strong debate but are quite sickened by the shite posts of many modern posters - this thread being the most obvious manifestation. In the end it comes down to the mods, forums need some shaping and some so-called fans need to feck off and join the Bitters or the Scousers if all they can do is bitch and moan match after match.

If only Van Gaal was still in charge, eh?

 

[Stretford End Phil]

If only Van Gaal was still in charge, eh?

I made my view clear about Van Gaal long before he actually joined and stuck to it and was proven right. I don't see an issue when you believe its really the wrong man for the job. However, I stuck by all the other 'failures' over the past 50 years and think I can shout at one.

 

[glazed]

In my opinion there are a lot of true fans out there who want to be part of a good forum where there is strong debate but are quite sickened by the shite posts of many modern posters - this thread being the most obvious manifestation. In the end it comes down to the mods, forums need some shaping and some so-called fans need to feck off and join the Bitters or the Scousers if all they can do is bitch and moan match after match.

While I agree with you, you're probably flagging up the nature of the Internet rather than the nature of modern fans.

 

[Stretford End Phil]

While I agree with you, you're probably flagging up the nature of the Internet rather than the nature of modern fans.

Sitting in the Stretty might be an eye opener for you.

 

[grahamo]

I think 3 or 4 of the players are not good enough for Man United. I watched players last night lobbing the ball over the top without even looking, hoping it would reach one of our attacking players. Schoolboy stuff. You would never see a Scholes or Veron do that, they know you make your own luck. Smalling putting the ball out for a throw in when he doesn't need to. Frustrating to watch.
On the other hand, We got no luck with refereeing decisions in the last couple of games. I don't think I've ever seen a more definite offside as last night's that led to their goal and Clattenburg, contrary to popular belief by ABU's, never gives United a fair crack of the whip. Hopefully, the bad refereeing decisions will even themselves out over the course of the season.

 

[Catt]

For many older fans who went through 4 dreadful seasons and then relegation, or the poor early years of Fergie, they tend not to panic over a few games. They don't shit face the players or the manager, and certainly don't recommend we play like the Bitters or some other worthless shit. Some fans have played high level football and realise how poor decisions by officials can turn a game. There are also many younger fans who know exactly who they're supporting and love the great culture of our club and maintain their enthusiasm even when we lose. This group of fans revel in great debate and discussion and are what I would recognise as true reds.

But, its pretty clear now that many modern fans don't have any of these qualities and as a consequence are just fair weather fans who spout shite from one week to the next.

In my opinion there are a lot of true fans out there who want to be part of a good forum where there is strong debate but are quite sickened by the shite posts of many modern posters - this thread being the most obvious manifestation. In the end it comes down to the mods, forums need some shaping and some so-called fans need to feck off and join the Bitters or the Scousers if all they can do is bitch and moan match after match.

Man, wish I was older but I agree. Match day threads are unbearable.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I made my view clear about Van Gaal long before he actually joined and stuck to it and was proven right. I don't see an issue when you believe its really the wrong man for the job. However, I stuck by all the other 'failures' over the past 50 years and think I can shout at one.

So you get to decide who is a failure and who isn't and only your opinion is correct?

 

[Stretford End Phil]

Just discovered how useful the ignore button really is.

 

[montpelier]

@Stretford End Phil

I tend to view what you've just said as an age thing & we get more because the 'silly younger' category is bigger for us, & older too because how far do you have to go back for when we weren't mainly winning all the time. This is the first period of time (all 3-4 years of it) that we aren't serious Title contenders for absolute yonks, 1990ish is it?

They are rather impatient, it is the way of the World these days, and esp in Footy as it is now.

 

[stevoc]

I agree that Mourinho should be able to compete in England and Europe but is the Europa League really Europe? I mean the Thursday night games are a massive hindrance on our league chances.

Of course its Europe what else would it be?

The competition is basically the same format as the CL if this is a massive hindrance to our league campaign then the same would be true of the Champions League.

Maybe if we're in that next year we should just try to get knocked out as quickly as possible so it doesn't hinder our league chances.

 

[glazed]

Sitting in the Stretty might be an eye opener for you.

Ah fair enough.

 

[Stretford End Phil]

@Stretford End Phil

I tend to view what you've just said as an age thing & we get more because the 'silly younger' category is bigger for us, & older too because how far do you have to go back for when we weren't mainly winning all the time. This is the first period of time (all 3-4 years of it) that we aren't serious Title contenders for absolute yonks, 1990ish is it?

They are rather impatient, it is the way of the World these days, and esp in Footy as it is now.

Really, there are a lot of young fans out there who don't behave like Scousers after a couple of defeats.

 

[montpelier]

Really, there are a lot of young fans out there who don't behave like Scousers after a couple of defeats.

Aye, terrible generalization by me, probably. But we have had a very long run of success, if that's all you know, then that's what you expect, isn't it? And the internet is like the Age of Now with its immediacy & hype about everything. You can read 500 opinions on here within the time it takes you to read them. Everyone is entitled to an opinion I suppose, unless you think they aren't.

 

[montpelier]

Anyway, moving on from that, it's a bit early in the season for the towel to be coming in, supposed to be all about the hope, innit? Footy supporting.

Although I do think I might be tempted to join in a bit with the army of the seriously-peeved if we get beat on Sunday, .

 

[OutlawGER]

We're a laughing stock. We keep spending money and yet somehow stay shit. Embarrassing.

The worst thing is that you guys have a really experienced player with an absolute winner mentality in your squad but you make no use out of him because your manager doesn't like him.

 

[Stretford End Phil]

Aye, terrible generalization by me, probably. But we have had a very long run of success, if that's all you know, then that's what you expect, isn't it? And the internet is like the Age of Now with its immediacy & hype about everything. You can read 500 opinions on here within the time it takes you to read them. Everyone is entitled to an opinion I suppose, unless you think they aren't.

I agree entirely with both your posts and contrary to one poster actually don't mind criticism during a game. But, to suggest we should play like the Bitters is just crass.

Yes the internet allows 'now' behaviour without consequences but some of this shite is wumming and Mods need to remove these people, which was also part of my post.

 

[The_Order]

A lot of modern United fans are still quite young and lack the emotional maturity to properly express their frustration without lashing out at their keyboards.

The game for me is starting to look more and more like Mou's opportunity to give some fringe players minutes because highlights made it look like a friendly/pre-season as we didn't really have a good pre-season to begin with, and a lot of our players a lacking match-fitness. Its just a shame players like Memphis didn't take their opportunities. Personally, I would like to see more youth players used at the expense of spent forces like Young and Rojo.

MUST beat Watford.

 

[mitchmouse]

Same old, same old. About halfway through the second half, I was just waiting for us to concede a goal. You could see it coming miles off and we were playing at such a slow tempo, it was clear we wern't going to get back into the game. I stick by what I said at the closer of the window: 1) we are still missing a world-class creative player in midfield. 2) I am far from convinced that Pogba is as great as people are saying (I compared buying him with when we bought Barthez) 3) We need a top-class winger more than we needed a Miki-type player. That said, of course, their goal should never have been allowed and I'm amazed no one appealed for offside. But where where was the cover when the ball was pulled back to the edge of the area. I do question DDG's pretty poor effort to stop the ball too. Indeed there were very few positives from the game other than surely now everyone can agree that Memphis is about as useful as Bebe - his ridiculous effort just before they scored was one of the poorest things I've seen on a football field in as long as I can remember. As for Jose: maybe he should look at why we were all-conquering in 1999; the answer is we tore into teams, we scare the shite out of them with pace and a high tempo. I'm not sure I'd give anyone more than 3 out of 10 on that performance. Seems to me it's time to at least give Carrick a game or two...

 

[noodlehair]

- Can the people whining about how Pogba needs to play instead of a no10 shut up now? Not only was this a clear demonstration that our other midfielders aren't nearly competent enough for it to make any sense to stick an extra one in the team, but on last night's evidence, Pogba is fecking shite in the "advanced role" he's supposedly suited to anyway. All he did was prat around and take on ridiculous unrealistic shooting attempts. Darron Gibson can do that.

- Rojo is baffling to me. He somehow combines all the attributes needed to be a decent player, into being an infuriatingly useless one

- Darmian is still awful, but at least he was trying harder at being awful, I think. Anyway, why did we send CBJ on loan if these two are our back up fullbacks?

- Last night we reached the Sam Allardyce stage of hoofing long balls up to Fellaini, even though Fellaini wasn't even on the pitch. Mourinho wants to come up with a better way of trying to force goals than putting someone tall up front, booting the ball aimlessly and hoping something magically happens. Otherwise my patience for him will last about as long as it did for LVG. You're supposed to be a world class manager and were given unlimited transfer funds. This is a completely unacceptable way to play in any part of any game.

- I really dislike Schneiderlin. He's not only completely useless but he doesn't even look like he's that bothered about it. Does he listen to the idiots on the internet who keep making excuses for him and then decide nothing is his fault.

- Ibra might score goals, but he wants to get less crap at not giving the ball away unbelievably cheaply nearly every single time he gets it.

 

[Kostur]

The worst thing is that you guys have a really experienced player with an absolute winner mentality in your squad but you make no use out of him because your manager doesn't like him.

Those GGMU tweets won't send themselves.

I love this topreds talk about how young fans are shite and should shut the feck up because they've seen dinosaurs in their days therefore they are more entitled to have an opinion, which by default, is more worthy. All we need next is true Brits telling foreigners to feck off to complete le siecle.

 

[RedDevil@84]

I do question DDG's pretty poor effort to stop the ball too

Even I felt the same when I saw the goal. De Gea is no longer in God mode.

PS: His contributions for the team in last 3-4 years has earned him right to make some mistakes though.

 

[montpelier]

Those GGMU tweets won't send themselves.

I love this topreds talk about how young fans are shite and should shut the feck up because they've seen dinosaurs in their days therefore they are more entitled to have an opinion, which by default, is more worthy. All we need next is true Brits telling foreigners to feck off to complete le siecle.

Nah, strongly disagree, it's not 'by default' is it? .

Perhaps the little thing where it says 'Full Member' could be changed to 'TopRed' if you can remember Big Ron being in charge.

edit - haha, I didn't know TopRed won't print if you put a space in it, . I'd best say this is not a serious post before I'm BanHammered, .

 

[MooseTheMooche]

Those GGMU tweets won't send themselves.

I love this topreds talk about how young fans are shite and should shut the feck up because they've seen dinosaurs in their days therefore they are more entitled to have an opinion, which by default, is more worthy. All we need next is true Brits telling foreigners to feck off to complete le siecle.

THIS. The "elitism" among certain posters is just infuriating.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Those GGMU tweets won't send themselves.

I love this topreds talk about how young fans are shite and should shut the feck up because they've seen dinosaurs in their days therefore they are more entitled to have an opinion, which by default, is more worthy. All we need next is true Brits telling foreigners to feck off to complete le siecle.

I agree. Emotions are high. Boy, do we need some victories.

 

[podurban2]

Those GGMU tweets won't send themselves.

I love this topreds talk about how young fans are shite and should shut the feck up because they've seen dinosaurs in their days therefore they are more entitled to have an opinion, which by default, is more worthy. All we need next is true Brits telling foreigners to feck off to complete le siecle.

It's a bit RAWKist isn't it?

 

[nick2004]

For many older fans who went through 4 dreadful seasons and then relegation, or the poor early years of Fergie, they tend not to panic over a few games. They don't shit face the players or the manager, and certainly don't recommend we play like the Bitters or some other worthless shit. Some fans have played high level football and realise how poor decisions by officials can turn a game. There are also many younger fans who know exactly who they're supporting and love the great culture of our club and maintain their enthusiasm even when we lose. This group of fans revel in great debate and discussion and are what I would recognise as true reds.

But, its pretty clear now that many modern fans don't have any of these qualities and as a consequence are just fair weather fans who spout shite from one week to the next.

In my opinion there are a lot of true fans out there who want to be part of a good forum where there is strong debate but are quite sickened by the shite posts of many modern posters - this thread being the most obvious manifestation. In the end it comes down to the mods, forums need some shaping and some so-called fans need to feck off and join the Bitters or the Scousers if all they can do is bitch and moan match after match.

Whatever you do or say, please don't blame the fans. Players, managers, officials make money from football. Fans pay money. Fans have bought their right to complain.

 

[khoazany]

This match basically confirm the massive gap between some of the starters and backups.Give me some of the young hungry U23s lads against Northampton.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

This match basically confirm the massive gap between some of the starters and backups.Give me some of the young hungry U23s lads against Northampton.

Aye. A good humiliation against against Northampton Town. Just what the doctor ordered. There's only a couple U-23's I would consider and that is Axel and Harrop. Maybe Riley. People make it sound like we have tons of kids that are fighting for a first team place. We don't. It is just a pity CBJ was sent on loan, he could not be worse than Rojo.

 

[Bastian]

Yes we were terrible and we looked like a team under the guidance of Louis van Gaal.

That being said, I think the reaction is a tad over the top. As has been well documented, there were 8 changes with Smalling, Rojo, Darmian and Schneiderlin playing their first game under Mourinho. The pitch was heavy, small and narrow, Feyenoord's game plan was to disrupt our game from the get go with heavy challenges (how they dealt with Rashford a case in point). And they scored a fluke. All in all it would only have been a shit game and a chance to get some players match fit, were it not for that offside sucker punch.

Pogba was super annoyed in the 2nd half and the team played badly. But it's not as if we are back in 2013-2015. Let's hold of the despair for a couple of months...

 

[SammyUnited_83]

-

- Rojo is baffling to me. He somehow combines all the attributes needed to be a decent player, into being an infuriatingly useless one

- Darmian is still awful, but at least he was trying harder at being awful, I think. Anyway, why did we send CBJ on loan if these two are our back up fullbacks?

I have no fecking idea, and I think it will end up being a disaster of a decision. We could have easily rotated him and Shaw, but to get rid and keep Rojo as backup is bewildering at best.

 

[SammyUnited_83]

Also, one thing that worries me is that we are yet to start a game well. It's taking us far too long to settle into games, it cost us against City, last night, almost Hull and we were gifted a goal at Bournemouth (albeit good 2nd half). Even v Southampton we could have been one down before we took the lead.

With the team and players we have, we should be far more dominant.