Moby VS Mazhar - NT peak draft

Who would win based on their peaks in the chosen tournaments?


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    28
  • Poll closed .

Annahnomoss

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Only the players performance in the chosen tournament should be considered.

Team Moby

Basic Player Roles & Tournaments
Goalkeeper - Walter Zenga - World Cup Third Place 1990, Italy
Attacking Left Back - Silvio Marzolini - World Cup 1966, Argentina
Playmaking Right Back - Carlos Alberto Torres - World Cup Winner 1970, Brazil
Sweeper - Gaetano Scirea - World Cup Winner 1982, Italy
Stopper - Jaap Stam - World Cup SF 1998, Netherlands
Dynamic Defensive Midfielder - Luis Monti - World Cup Winner 1934, Italy
Creative Central Midfielder - Xavi Hernandez - Uefa Euro Winner - 2008, Spain
Flamboyant Attacking Midfielder - Luis Suárez Miramontes - Uefa Euro Winner - 1964, Spain
Adventurous Left Wing Forward - Rob Rensenbrink - World Cup Runner Up 1974, Netherlands
Goalscoring Right Wing Forward - Grzegorz Lato - World Cup Third Place 1974, Poland
Free roaming False 9 - Guiseppe Meazza - World Cup Winner 1934, Italy

Tactical Brief
The team is playing a quick tempo, attack minded possession brand of football. We will look to rely on several mouth watering combinations from front to back and across the pitch and play a highly creative and flamboyant free flowing style with the emphasis on constantly bringing the ball forward.

At the back guarding the goal is Walter Zenga, who set the record for consecutive clean sheets in 1990 which still stands. In defense we have combined no nonsense defensive astuteness with the required ability on the ball to fit in this design. Scirea will be operating the leader of that defense, marshalling the unit and starting attacking with his creativity and vision on the ball. Stam would compliment him with his incredible pace physicality and ruggedness while also being calm and composed on the ball himself. This is him at his absolute peak. Out wide is the captain of the greatest national team ever, Carlos Alberto Torres, who will be adding his tremendous defensive nous and intelligence to the back four while providing an excellent outlet going forward, particularly with his passing and vision. To complete the unit is the Argentine Silvio Marzolini, one of the best defenders in 1966 and one of the greatest defenders to come out of Argentina, he will similarly be tasked to shut down his opponent and join the midfield build up when on the ball.

Anchoring the midfield is Luis Monti, known for his world class two-way game, he will be shielding the back four and provide the required technical ability to instantly take the ball forward. Next to him is Xavi in his flamboyant playmaking version of Euro 2008, pre tiki taka yet still technically flawless on the ball, the heart of every move, spraying the ball forward with massive intent and controlling the tempo of the game. The third midfielder is Luis Suarez Miramontes in his attacking incarnation that he performed for Spain in 1964. He will form a beautiful partnership with Xavi here, with both of them combining constantly to provide an array of unpredictable, swift and penetrating passing which will be a huge task to handle for any opposition.

The team uses quality width in the form of Rob Rensenbrink and Grzegorz Lato, both of whom shone brightly in 1974. Lato was the World Cup top scorer, combining blistering pace, dribbling and goalscoring into one scary package. With the service from central core as well as the back four, he will be an incredible outlet here. Four years ago Carlos Alberto made a fantastic partnership with Jairzinho down the right flank and a similar outcome can be expected here with Lato being devastating getting at the end of CAT's passes.

On the left would be Rensenbrink, who would be more creative and penetrative than the counterpart, well versed of playing in a similar setup where the team is littered with incredible ball players, creativity, fluidity and he won't be shy of attacking the box, having played with another false 9.

Lastly, the man who would provide the magical touch, one of the greatest genius to step foot on a world cup pitch and someone who would be asked to lead this attack with his incredible all round game play, Guiseppe Meazza. The best player of the 1934 World Cup, Meazza showcased a complete style of attacking, using his insane dribbling, shooting as well as having an immense creative presence to get everyone around him involved and elevate their game. He will be playing as a false 9 here, constantly dropping deep in a free role and playing in the two wingers as well as Suarez bombing forward.

The team is clearly based on the foundations of technique, creativity and fluidity along with complimenting that with the required width, pace, goal threat and strong mentality throughout. The key players occupy the most important positions and would be in their element here, all of Scirea, Xavi, Suarez and Meazza are natural leaders and would form a spine that would give up a fight, work hard for the entire match and provide quality at both ends while having the apt support system. Meazza is supposed to be the star in this team, however there are no characters who would let down their teammates, and can be expected to work well together. The likes of Stam and Monti bring the required steel to not make this a lightweight outfit and they will be prepared for any physicality that can be thrown at them.

There isn't any one particular inspiration for this effort however the players are all familiar with this style and approach, have had similar players around them at their respective tournaments and can be expected to recreate that while being more than the sum of the parts. Teams like Spain 2008, Netherlands 1974, Brazil 1982 and the likes contribute to a lot of the background here, basically all those who prioritised dominating teams while being entertaining, free flowing, allowing players to express themselves and getting the reward for that. That's the biggest motive here.

-------------------------------Team Moby--------------------------------------------------------Team Mazhar
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Team Mazhar/Arbitrium

Substitutes: Denilson, Luis Eyzaguirre, Neymar

Formation: lopsided 4-3-3
Attacking style: Fluid, free-flowing attacks; possession-based approach with a quick passing tempo; direct passing in the final third
Defensive style: organized, zonal-based defending from the back line; players cover for each other; energetic, aggressive defending from the midfield
Inspiration: O jogo bonito

Summary
This team is set up to get the most out of the attacking talent in the side. The aim is to provide as much freedom as possible to the attacking players so that they can utilise their full set of skills and open up opponents with beautiful, artistic football. In order to achieve this, we needed a solid unit at the back that will provide the rest of the team with the assurance to play attacking football (else you'd end up like Brazil '82), and with our back 4, we feel that we have achieved that.

Defence
Starting from the keeper, we need a calm yet noticeable presence who will both keep our defenders on their toes and give them the assurance that nothing will get past him. Gilmar is exactly that type of a keeper. Ahead of him, I have four solid defenders, all of who compliment each other. In the middle, I have a great combination of finesse and steel. Puyol provides the aggression, physical dominance, and warrior-like determination to prevent the attacking players from taking their chances and settling into the game, whilst World Cup Willi Schulz will provide a more calm approach with his excellent reading of the game and seamless defending. On the flanks, I have technically adept full backs with a defend-first mentality, and boy, were they great defenders. Djalma Santos will be more defensive, which will allow Maxime Bossis to make the forward runs and help in stretching the play on the left just as he did for France in 1982.

Midfield
The midfield is as complete as it gets. The Clodoaldo-Gérson partnership was hugely dominant partnership, and both complemented each other excellently. Clodoaldo provided the steely defending with the silky dribbling, whilst Gérson started off attacks and dictated the game from the midfield. Whilst this midfield already has a wide repertoire to take control of matches, it still needs some more dynamism and energy to take on all comers. Enter Neeskens, one of the best midfielders ever in the World Cup. He could do it all, and he will be our X-factor in the midfield, providing late runs into the box, supporting Gérson in building up attacks, and providing the defensive tenacity and energy that will make our midfield both silky and steely.

Attack
With such a solid foundation behind them, the front 3 of Zico, Jairzinho, and Villa now have the total freedom to play their natural game. The lopsided approach will make it awkward for the opposition to face us, with Zico in a free role, Jairzinho stretching the game on the right, and Villa drifting into the inside left areas. Jairzinho's dribbling, speed, supply, and finishing make him a total threat (just ask Facchetti). Zico in a free role will cause all sorts of problems with his mazy dribbling, vision, long passing range, and goalscoring ability. Villa has proven that he can lead the attacking line on his own in 2010, and with a strong supporting cast around him, he will be as likely, if not more, to score goals with his accurate finishing.

Why We Will Win
Aldo has a great midfield already with Xavi, Luisito, and Monti. The midfield battle will be tight, but it is in tight battles like these where Neeskens shines brightest. Even though he didn't achieve international success with the Netherlands, he still put in inspirational performances when his team really needed them.

Also, where we will come up on top is with our X-factor attackers in Zico and Jairzinho. Jairzinho was a huge pain in the backside for one of the best full backs ever in Facchetti, and I honestly struggle to see how Marzolini will contain such a complete package. On top of that, Zico will contribute to our lopsided setup and be the player who will create the chaos in Aldo's defence. Even with a completely dedicated, aggressive defender in Gentile, Zico was still able to assist Socrates in his goal and open up Italy's defence on several occasions. Combine that with Villa's excellent movement, positioning, and finishing, and Aldo's defence will have a difficult time containing us.
 
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Not sure if Mazhar's CB pairing is the right fit for dealing with a guy like Meazza.
 
Not sure if Mazhar's CB pairing is the right fit for dealing with a guy like Meazza.
And I can't see him scoring in a month of Sundays.

Very odd, after the last couple of games this matchup looks like the outcome of a different/harder drafting process.
 
Not sure if Mazhar's CB pairing is the right fit for dealing with a guy like Meazza.

Yeah. On the other hand Djalma is going to be worth money against Rensenbrink and the back three in general will make life hard for Lato as well. Marzolini and Alberto will mean a lot of possession for Aldo with Xavi and Scirea in there as well.
 
Not sure if Mazhar's CB pairing is the right fit for dealing with a guy like Meazza.
Puyol is not a bad fit actually. Meazza was inside right in that 1934 tournament and played off Schiavio to weave through channels. IMO a striker in Aldo's formation would be better, especially with wingers like Rensenbrink and Lato.
 
Some attention on our centre backs, who I feel in terms of national peak have earned their place on the field much more than Japp Stam. He had an okayish tournament (Netherlands were pretty underwhelming in the group stage, conceding 2 against an average Mexico side ) and would struggle to deal in any one on ones with a peak David Villa.
 
Puyol is not a bad fit actually. Meazza was inside right in that 1934 tournament and played off Schiavio to weave through channels. IMO a striker in Aldo's formation would be better, especially with wingers like Rensenbrink and Lato.

I really like the look of Aldo's attack personally. Rensenbrink was so good centrally as well as out wide, and Lato is up there with the best goalscoring wide attackers in the draft, so a creative False 9 type looks good to me. My only real reservations about his team are Marzolini as an attacking left back (I suffered through some tumescent Argentina 1966 matches researching for a previous draft and barely saw him leave his own half), and Stam, who I thought looked error-prone in that WC when watching it at the time.
 
I really like the look of Aldo's attack personally. Rensenbrink was so good centrally as well as out wide, and Lato is up there with the best goalscoring wide attackers in the draft, so a creative False 9 type looks good to me. My only real reservations about his team are Marzolini as an attacking left back (I suffered through some tumescent Argentina 1966 matches researching for a previous draft and barely saw him leave his own half), and Stam, who I thought looked error-prone in that WC when watching it at the time.
Was Meazza ever a false 9 at the NT, tho? Meazza started as a CF but his game was more complete than that and essentially at his peak was a more of a 10 than 9, so to speak. It's a bit like Pele `58 and `70 conundrum. Meazza of `34 was playing more like a AM than a CF in both NT and the club side. If I can compare his natural game and position/zone it's more like Platini - get the ball from deep dribble his way and arrive at the box to slot it home.

Agree with you on all other accounts and of course both of Aldo's wingers are top notch in great form in those tournaments(especially Lato whose credentials of a great winger are mostly based on that very tournament).
 
Was Meazza ever a false 9 at the NT, tho? Meazza started as a CF but his game was more complete than that and essentially at his peak was a more of a 10 than 9, so to speak. It's a bit like Pele `58 and `70 conundrum. Meazza of `34 was playing more like a AM than a CF in both NT and the club side. If I can compare his natural game and position/zone it's more like Platini - get the ball from deep dribble his way and arrive at the box to slot it home.
I've used Platini as a false 9 before as well!
 
If meazza never played as a false 9, doesn't it kind of negate the point of the whole thing?

@Moby do you have anything showing him in the position you have him here?
 
I've used Platini as a false 9 before as well!
yes, but didn't you have Suker on the bench? Suker instead of Meazza(or even in front of him) in his 98 WC goalscoring form - he scored in every game but against Argentina - would IMO elevate your team especially with those wingers and Carlos Alberto overlapping.
 
Puyol is not a bad fit actually. Meazza was inside right in that 1934 tournament and played off Schiavio to weave through channels. IMO a striker in Aldo's formation would be better, especially with wingers like Rensenbrink and Lato.

As much as I love Puyol, I always though he could be got at by extremely skilful elusive forwards.. abit like Vidic v Torres, but less the pace element but more the ability to make the tackle whilst staying on your feet. I think Meazza is the type of guy who would hate to face a Ferdninand/McGrath type defender and prefer a lungey defender like Puyol.. that is the impression I've always had from Meazza from the literature I've read on him.



That is Puyol vs R9 (past his peak and much stockier than his phenom days) and struggling to cope with a dribbly forward running at him. Meazza at his peak was a force of nature, brilliant dribbler, full of tricks and sort of forward who would be one step ahead of a defender like Puyol imo.
 
http://www.thefalse9.com/2012/04/guardiolas-barcelona-reinventing-total.html

The false 9 didn't exist in 1934. Confusing as to how meazza can be expected to play it.

Sindelar begs to differ.

It's just a designation anyway, the question is what the player in that - nominal - position is meant to do.

Hidegkuti, for instance, played much like an attacking and partly orchestrating midfielder whilst being the nominal striker on the team sheet.

Meazza could do something similar. The Italian Method involved pulling the inside forwards back, making them AM-ish more than striker-ish, and Meazza is the poster boy for that very thing.

The question is - given the nature of the draft - whether Meazza played in a manner, in 1934, which corresponds well with what he is supposed to be doing here. The fact that he didn't actually play as a nominal false nine is less relevant.
 
With Marzolini and Carlos Alberto and Xavi, Monti and Suarez I would love to see a top tier number 9 in that team. :drool:
 
The question is - given the nature of the draft - whether Meazza played in a manner, in 1934, which corresponds well with what he is supposed to be doing here. The fact that he didn't actually play as a nominal false nine is less relevant.

And Suarez? He played the same position in '64 Euro as Meazza in '34?
I need to find some Suarez videos to see how he played in that final.
 
And Suarez? He played the same position in '64 Euro as Meazza in '34?
I need to find some Suarez videos to see how he played in that final.

That combination doesn't sit well with me either. It isn't just those two but Xavi and two playmaking full backs sort of means you'd want to see a real number 9 there who can lead the team and stretch the opponents out. Ronaldo would be perfect there instead and he retains a lot of the dribbling anyhow.
 
And Suarez? He played the same position in '64 Euro as Meazza in '34?
I need to find some Suarez videos to see how he played in that final.

Spain played some kind of 3-2-2-3 variation, I think. So, yeah, nominally they both played as inside rights.

Alternatively, you could say they both operated in the fairly large AM/SS area.

Which leaves plenty of room for using them both in a modern style setup, I'd say.

EDIT That said, you can question the combo, sure. Meazza brings different things to the table and is a plausible choice - in my opinion - for the false nine part. But I don't disagree with what Annah says above. Wouldn't look any worse with an actual nine there.
 
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False 9's existed before Guardiola. Old Brazilian 4-2-4 had some variations of false 9s but it is true that Meazza didn't play as one in 1934.

Yes variations of it existed, but this side has a modern formation feel to it, which won't get the best out of meazza.
 
I love Moby's wingers. I wanted both Lato and Rensenbrink and feel they are two of best and most dangerous wingers in this format.

I can see the comments on a no.9 but the way I see it, with a no.9 + Meazza plus both wingers wouldn't be a good tactical choice against Mazhar/Arbitrium's side. Moby needs the extra man in the middle to contain the opponent's 3 midfielders + Zico otherwise Maz/Arb's side would dominate too much of the possession and I don't think Moby wants to concede that.

I think this was the right choice tactically to keep the powerful influence of Lato and Rensenbrink and not concede the midfield.
 
Resenbrink and lato were unreal, jairzinho tops them though IMO as not only did he score in every game of the tournament (7 in total) he actually won the thing and had a stellar performance in the final, contrasted to latos 4th place and robs runner up medal.
 
But I don't disagree with what Annah says above. Wouldn't look any worse with an actual nine there.

That would depend on the 9 for me. I can imagine a lot of solid tournament 9's that I wouldn't really want to see here over a false 9. I think with Rensenbrink ,Meazza as an inside-right would work better in this tactic than a poacher or target man type.
 
That would depend on the 9 for me. I can imagine a lot of solid tournament 9's that I wouldn't really want to see here over a false 9. I think with Rensenbrink ,Meazza as an inside-right would work better in this tactic than a poacher or target man type.

I think what people want is to drop Meazza altogether and leave the AM-ing to Suarez. Replace him with a grand nine.

Easier said than done, of course. Annah suggested Ronaldo.

The potential problem is the combo, i.e. the possibility of Meazza/Suarez stepping on each other's toes - and whether the side doesn't have enough flair/trickery/creativity without Meazza in the mix, whose goal threat you can replace with a (top notch, of course) line leader.
 
Why did we have this massive debate about Schuster in the last match thread when we've got a Djalma Santos - who played a single match out of six in 1958 - not getting a peep here?
 
The lack of a 9 and a potentially confused Meazza were my only issues with Moby's side. Still think he would win though.
 
Why did we have this massive debate about Schuster in the last match thread when we've got a Djalma Santos - who played a single match out of six in 1958 - not getting a peep here?

Not to mention part of a defence when then goes onto concede 2 in the one game he played in.
 
Why did we have this massive debate about Schuster in the last match thread when we've got a Djalma Santos - who played a single match out of six in 1958 - not getting a peep here?
What baffles me is why pick 58 over 62 tbh.
 
Why did we have this massive debate about Schuster in the last match thread when we've got a Djalma Santos - who played a single match out of six in 1958 - not getting a peep here?

wow I just noticed that, I just assumed it was 62 Djalma.
 
Not to mention part of a defence when then goes onto concede 2 in the one game he played in.

:lol:

Shocking pick, clearly.

Well, he sums up the problem, I guess.

Team of the tournament, generally associated with the '58 champions, but didn't play a minute before the final.
 
Man, I thought I put '62 in there for Djalma. I just had another look, and yeah, for some reason, it's '58 in there.

Of course, I intended that to be the '62 Djalma rather than the '58 one. I was probably thinking about Gilmar at that moment and mistakenly put '58 in there.
 
There's also been so much talk about Moby's midfield running the show here that I'm surprised that no one's taken into account the value of Johan Neeskens in such a battle. Johan will relish the challenge in such a match, and he'll be perfect in stopping Moby's midfield from getting comfortable. His marvelous box-to-box game was crucial for the Netherlands in their 1974 World Cup campaign, and his late runs into the box will also be something that Moby's defence will have to keep their eye on. How will Monti and Luisito deal with Neeskens' high energy levels and constant movement combined with Zico's flair, skill, and creativity?
 
I need @Moby to confirm that he allows you to make a change before 60 mins. 2.2 Three Substitutions will be allowed after 60 minutes(16 h) of the game has been played to make sure a manager making a crucial mistake can't come back while regular subs are commendable.
 
I need @Moby to confirm that he allows you to make a change before 60 mins. 2.2 Three Substitutions will be allowed after 60 minutes(16 h) of the game has been played to make sure a manager making a crucial mistake can't come back while regular subs are commendable.
Oh, right. In that case, if Moby isn't indeed fine with it, then I'll take the punishment.