Mourinho away record against top 6

[Redlyn]

Nine games, no wins, one goal:
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/ni...ay-record-against-top-six#JkTiJcIZZBFpK0gq.99

This is a pretty poor record (4 games at Chelsea, 5 at United). It would be good to see this in relation to the other teams.

I doubt we can expect much at the Bridge but what is required for us to go to these teams and aim to put them to the sword and collect all the points?

At what ground will our next away win come from? I'm thinking Arsenal is most likely.

 

[Raees]

Yet the myth still exists of let's play pragmatically because results come first. There are no results which back that style of play up in recent years IMO.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Almost as though away games against top 6 opposition are hard to win. Surely not?

 

[roonster09]

Pochettino has 1 win away from home in big games and CAf worship him. Away games against big 6 are tough to win and it's not even some rocket science stuff.

 

[Treble]

The Chelsea results shouldn't be taken into account for obvious reasons.

Let's see the performance at SB on Sunday. A loss there would raise a few questions. But a win would totally change the narrative.

 

[charlenefan]

People are overlooking the circumstances under many of those games

26/04/15 Arsenal 0 Chelsea 0 - title all but won, played for a point
16/08/15 City 3 Chelsea 0 - came during the spell which lead to his sacking
29/11/15 Spurs 0 Chelsea 0 - as above
17/10/16 Liverpool 0 United 0
23/10/16 Chelsea 4 United 0
27/04/17 City 0 United 0
07/05/17 Arsenal 2 United 0 - played a second string side
14/05/17 Spurs 2 United 1 - as above
14/10/17 Liverpool 0 United 0

So yes he played defensively away to Liverpool two seasons on the spin (and the same can be said away to City last year) and just got dicked at Chelsea it's not like he's suddenly incapable of winning these games, the record looks worse than it possibly is due to circumstances

For me any time you win at Liverpool, City or Spurs it's a massive result, Chelsea away something just always happens, Arsenal away is the one where anything less than a win is a dissapointment

 

[Hambley]

Hardly his away games against top teams in the season 2015/2016 should be taken for statistics because he lost control over his players and that squad certainly didn't play for him. As far as I remember he won only 1 of 4 PL matches every month before he was sacked in december.

 

[cyberman]

I can only think of 2 times last year that a top 6 side lost at home v a rival. Liverpool destroying a pre revolution Chelsea and Chelsea themselves with an undeserved win v City.
Am I missing any?
Stats like these seem worse without context.

 

[SER19]

These are dreadful stars but the context is lost on paper. His final Chelsea season was an all round disaster and at united we've been very much in transition not to mention the weakened teams in two of those games. What are his stats for his premier league seasons prior to this. If they're similar at end of this or next season I'd be worried but not overly reading into that now.

 

[2cents]

I can only think of 2 times last year that a top 6 side lost at home v a rival. Liverpool destroying a pre revolution Chelsea and Chelsea themselves with an undeserved win v City.
Am I missing any?
Stats like these seem worse without context.

City beat us at OT.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

These are dreadful stars but the context is lost on paper. His final Chelsea season was an all round disaster and at united we've been very much in transition not to mention the weakened teams in two of those games. What are his stats for his premier league seasons prior to this. If they're similar at end of this or next season I'd be worried but not overly reading into that now.

Someone posted them in one of the many many other threads on exactly this topic. Bascially, they're as good as - if not better than - any other manager in the history of the PL (including Fergie)

 

[Pogue Mahone]

City beat us at OT.

Can't blame him for suppressing that memory tbf.

 

[cyberman]

@2cents
Thats right. Even then that was down to the ref somehow letting Bravo get away with a red card tackle in the box.
Its stupidly hard to win these games

 

[SER19]

Someone posted them in one of the many many other threads on exactly this topic. Bascially, they're as good as - if not better than - any other manager in the history of the PL (including Fergie)

This doesn't surprise me. Stats like these remind me things like "Huddersfield beat united for first time in 63 years". Yes.....after playing them about four times.

I'd be more inclined to read into his stats at united after a second season.

To have set a new club record of being unbeaten at home within 15 months of the job is a more worthy stat given how often we had been embarrassed at old Trafford post Ferguson

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

People are overlooking the circumstances under many of those games

26/04/15 Arsenal 0 Chelsea 0 - title all but won, played for a point
16/08/15 City 3 Chelsea 0 - came during the spell which lead to his sacking
29/11/15 Spurs 0 Chelsea 0 - as above
17/10/16 Liverpool 0 United 0
23/10/16 Chelsea 4 United 0
27/04/17 City 0 United 0
07/05/17 Arsenal 2 United 0 - played a second string side
14/05/17 Spurs 2 United 1 - as above
14/10/17 Liverpool 0 United 0

So yes he played defensively away to Liverpool two seasons on the spin (and the same can be said away to City last year) and just got dicked at Chelsea it's not like he's suddenly incapable of winning these games, the record looks worse than it possibly is due to circumstances

For me any time you win at Liverpool, City or Spurs it's a massive result, Chelsea away something just always happens, Arsenal away is the one where anything less than a win is a dissapointment

Jepp for me that City away game last season was a bit annoying. We needed 3 points and a draw would not help us at all. Had hoped we could have been more attacking minded in that one.

Same with Liverpool this season we should have attacked more. Liverpool away last season I thought we actually played well.

 

[Ikon]

For context and balance it would be interesting to see how other top 6 clubs fared away from home over the same period.
I can't imagine any of them can boast more than 1 or 2 wins per season.

To have set a new club record of being unbeaten at home within 15 months of the job is a more worthy stat given how often we had been embarrassed at Old Trafford post Ferguson

^^Agreed^^
Also 2 trophies in first season, when no other manager has ever won 1.
There's plenty to be optimistic about..!!

 

[Bestietom]

Nine games, no wins, one goal:
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/ni...ay-record-against-top-six#JkTiJcIZZBFpK0gq.99

This is a pretty poor record (4 games at Chelsea, 5 at United). It would be good to see this in relation to the other teams.

I doubt we can expect much at the Bridge but what is required for us to go to these teams and aim to put them to the sword and collect all the points?

At what ground will our next away win come from? I'm thinking Arsenal is most likely.

Yes, and only 1 goal scored in those 9 games. @Redlyn . Rooney scored against Spurs in a 2-1 loss.

 

[donkeyfish]

Chelsea got 4 points in these games last season, a mighty 2 point difference. But they had something like 27 points to go on in the end.

 

[SirAF]

This doesn't surprise me. Stats like these remind me things like "Huddersfield beat united for first time in 63 years". Yes.....after playing them about four times.

I'd be more inclined to read into his stats at united after a second season.

To have set a new club record of being unbeaten at home within 15 months of the job is a more worthy stat given how often we had been embarrassed at old Trafford post Ferguson

That is actually insane.

 

[Member 90887]

And conveniently stop in 04/2015 when he had 3 more seasons in the premier league before that.

So the run includes his worst period managing chelsea, and 2 games that he didn't care about when we were focusing on the europa legue.

 

[carlosp]

That is actually insane.

38 home games unbeaten. Last loss at home was City last season.

 

[SirAF]

38 home games unbeaten. Last loss at home was City last season.

That is actually insane.

 

[DWelbz19]

Chelsea got 4 points in these games last season, a mighty 2 point difference. But they had something like 27 points to go on in the end.

How many did they manage in the home games?

So far Mourinho is justified for aiming to draw at Anfield seeing as we beat Spurs at home. So long as he gets a large amount of points in the return home fixtures of these top 6 matches, his approach to away games is justified. Much as I and many disagree with it.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

I just remeber SB always being trouble for us, even before Jose got his hands on them. A draw will be a decent result but hopefully it’s not down cowering away. Suspect we’ll go 352 for this which when we play that way we tend to press and hunt and have more people up the pitch than the other systems he plays.

 

[Womp]

I just remeber SB always being trouble for us, even before Jose got his hands on them. A draw will be a decent result but hopefully it’s not down cowering away. Suspect we’ll go 352 for this which when we play that way we tend to press and hunt and have more people up the pitch than the other systems he plays.

It's our bogey arena. Even under SAF at our best I'd never be confident going there.

 

[Siorac]

Pochettino has 1 win away from home in big games and CAf worship him. Away games against big 6 are tough to win and it's not even some rocket science stuff.

But it also means that Mourinho's "pragmatic" park the bus method doesn't actually yield better results than a more positive approach.

 

[Womp]

How many did they manage in the home games?

So far Mourinho is justified for aiming to draw at Anfield seeing as we beat Spurs at home. So long as he gets a large amount of points in the return home fixtures of these top 6 matches, his approach to away games is justified. Much as I and many disagree with it.

Regardless of quality of football he's an extremely smart man and one of the best tactical managers going around. I remember reading it somewhere a long time ago, but apparently he'd calculate points game by game and would play accordingly to the goal he had set.

Everything seems calculated with him. Whether or not it works again, we'll have to wait and see. He is getting us closer though.

 

[roonster09]

But it also means that Mourinho's "pragmatic" park the bus method doesn't actually yield better results than a more positive approach.

The abuse of "park the bus" phrase is very much real on Redcafe. People even think we parked the bus against Spurs. So not sure what you mean by "park the bus".

Overall yeah we should go with more positive intent in away games against big teams.

 

[Siorac]

The abuse of "park the bus" phrase is very much real on Redcafe. People even think we parked the bus against Spurs. So not sure what you mean by "park the bus".

Overall yeah we should go with more positive intent in away games against big teams.

I think there can be no debate that we parked the bus at Anfield. That's what I mean by the phrase. Or, if we want a non-Mourinho example, then Nou Camp 2008.

 

[roonster09]

I think there can be no debate that we parked the bus at Anfield. That's what I mean by the phrase. Or, if we want a non-Mourinho example, then Nou Camp 2008.

Obviously we did at Anfield, like I said few thinks we did even against Spurs.

Yeah, would love more positive intent from the team like Jose's Chelsea played against City. They counter attacked superbly, something like that would be good.

 

[RedStarUnited]

I just remeber SB always being trouble for us, even before Jose got his hands on them. A draw will be a decent result but hopefully it’s not down cowering away. Suspect we’ll go 352 for this which when we play that way we tend to press and hunt and have more people up the pitch than the other systems he plays.

The Bridge is easily our worst away ground visit. Even before Roman days, we struggled there.

Why did they pick the last 9 games and not 10 or any other number? narrative?

 

[Sylar]

We are shit at SB in the league. Like always. Even during Fergie years. Even pre-Roman years
The only recent win was when they went down to 9 men, and even then we just about won (Chica was offside surely ahah)

 

[Womp]

I think there can be no debate that we parked the bus at Anfield. That's what I mean by the phrase. Or, if we want a non-Mourinho example, then Nou Camp 2008.

You see, I don't disagree he parks the bus - but I don't think we did at Anfield. I made a post about it a while back, explaining why the game went the way it did. The loss of Pogba resulted in us having 2 holding midfielders, neither or whom are capable or comfortable carrying the ball out from midfield. When you couple this with the fact that it was 2v3 in midfield, having very similar players, occupying the same spaces, it became extremely difficult to overcome their press and win the midfield battle, we were camped in our half as a result.

With Fellaini also out, we didn't have an out option to overcome the press through the most reliable way possible. By getting pressed and outnumbered in midfield, we were getting pushed back, as a natural consequence of this, our attackers also dropped back as they weren't getting service.

I say this because we started the game playing somewhat positively. We were throwing bodies forward and trying things, it just wasn't working and then when we started getting dominated in midfield, it led to the shiteshow that we saw.

Granted, no doubt Jose could have been more positive, but given how crucial a loss Pogba was for that game, it was understandable imo.

 

[Adisa]

IMO, the results against Spurs and Arsenal should be looked at in context.

 

[ivaldo]

But it also means that Mourinho's "pragmatic" park the bus method doesn't actually yield better results than a more positive approach.

Really? The cafe is adamant that Poch is the better manager and Spurs have the better set of players. Surely if that is the case then it does?

The league isn’t won in games against the top 6. Mourinho knows that, Fergie knew that. And yet it seems to be the only stat that matters.

 

[acnumber9]

But it also means that Mourinho's "pragmatic" park the bus method doesn't actually yield better results than a more positive approach.

Certainly if you hand pick the stats that paint that picture. Why the last 9 games? Why not 10 or 11?

 

[Randall Flagg]

We are shit at SB in the league. Like always. Even during Fergie years. Even pre-Roman years
The only recent win was when they went down to 9 men, and even then we just about won (Chica was offside surely ahah)

this is true

Its my most feared game every season

But they look very beatable right now, so Im hoping we dont play like we did at anfield

 

[BigTimeCharlie]

It is funny that they only look at the last 9 games. Plenty of times he visited OT as the boss of other teams and beat us under SAF. Lets look at Mourinhos whole Premier League record against the top 6...

 

[carlosp]

Full record of Sir Alex's Chelsea fixtures. We defiinitely lost quiet a bit at Stamford Bridge after Mourinho took over. Mourinho won 3, drew 2 and lost 1 against Sir Alex during Mourinho's first Chelsea spell.

Bold Fixtures are Chelsea home fixtures. Red Loss, Blue Won.

LDO/PL Fixtures

21 Feb 1987 Chelsea v Manchester United D 1-1 League Division One
31 Aug 1987 Manchester United v Chelsea W 3-1 League Division One
13 Feb 1988 Chelsea v Manchester United W 1-2 League Division One
25 Nov 1989 Manchester United v Chelsea D 0-0 League Division One
24 Feb 1990 Chelsea v Manchester United L 1-0 League Division One
25 Nov 1990 Manchester United v Chelsea L 2-3 League Division One
09 Mar 1991 Chelsea v Manchester United L 3-2 League Division One
15 Dec 1991 Chelsea v Manchester United W 1-3 League Division One
26 Feb 1992 Manchester United v Chelsea D 1-1 League Division One
19 Dec 1992 Chelsea v Manchester United D 1-1 Premier League
17 Apr 1993 Manchester United v Chelsea W 3-0 Premier League
11 Sep 1993 Chelsea v Manchester United L 1-0 Premier League
05 Mar 1994 Manchester United v Chelsea L 0-1 Premier League
26 Dec 1994 Chelsea v Manchester United W 2-3 Premier League
17 Apr 1995 Manchester United v Chelsea D 0-0 Premier League
21 Oct 1995 Chelsea v Manchester United W 1-4 Premier League
02 Dec 1995 Manchester United v Chelsea D 1-1 Premier League
02 Nov 1996 Manchester United v Chelsea L 1-2 Premier League
22 Feb 1997 Chelsea v Manchester United D 1-1 Premier League
24 Sep 1997 Manchester United v Chelsea D 2-2 Premier League
28 Feb 1998 Chelsea v Manchester United W 0-1 Premier League
16 Dec 1998 Manchester United v Chelsea D 1-1 Premier League
29 Dec 1998 Chelsea v Manchester United D 0-0 Premier League
03 Oct 1999 Chelsea v Manchester United L 5-0 Premier League
24 Apr 2000 Manchester United v Chelsea W 3-2 Premier League
23 Sep 2000 Manchester United v Chelsea D 3-3 Premier League
10 Feb 2001 Chelsea v Manchester United D 1-1 Premier League
01 Dec 2001 Manchester United v Chelsea L 0-3 Premier League
20 Apr 2002 Chelsea v Manchester United W 0-3 Premier League
23 Aug 2002 Chelsea v Manchester United D 2-2 Premier League
18 Jan 2003 Manchester United v Chelsea W 2-1 Premier League
30 Nov 2003 Chelsea v Manchester United L 1-0 Premier League
08 May 2004 Manchester United v Chelsea D 1-1 Premier League
---Mourinho took over Chelsea---
15 Aug 2004 Chelsea v Manchester United L 1-0 Premier League
10 May 2005 Manchester United v Chelsea L 1-3 Premier League
06 Nov 2005 Manchester United v Chelsea W 1-0 Premier League
29 Apr 2006 Chelsea v Manchester United L 3-0 Premier League
26 Nov 2006 Manchester United v Chelsea D 1-1 Premier League
09 May 2007 Chelsea v Manchester United D 0-0 Premier League
---Mourinho Left Chelsea---
23 Sep 2007 Manchester United v Chelsea W 2-0 Premier League
26 Apr 2008 Chelsea v Manchester United L 2-1 Premier League
21 Sep 2008 Chelsea v Manchester United D 1-1 Premier League
11 Jan 2009 Manchester United v Chelsea W 3-0 Premier League
08 Nov 2009 Chelsea v Manchester United L 1-0 Premier League
03 Apr 2010 Manchester United v Chelsea L 1-2 Premier League
01 Mar 2011 Chelsea v Manchester United L 2-1 Premier League
08 May 2011 Manchester United v Chelsea W 2-1 Premier League
18 Sep 2011 Manchester United v Chelsea W 3-1 Premier League
05 Feb 2012 Chelsea v Manchester United D 3-3 Premier League
28 Oct 2012 Chelsea v Manchester United W 2-3 Premier League
05 May 2013 Manchester United v Chelsea L 0-1 Premier League

Other Fixtures:

30 Jan 1988 Manchester United v Chelsea W 2-0 FA Cup
14 May 1994 Manchester United v Chelsea W 4-0 FA Cup
31 Mar 1996 Manchester United v Chelsea W 2-1 FA Cup
03 Aug 1997 Chelsea v Manchester United W 1-1 FA Charity Shield
04 Jan 1998 Chelsea v Manchester United W 3-5 FA Cup
07 Mar 1999 Manchester United v Chelsea D 0-0 FA Cup
10 Mar 1999 Chelsea v Manchester United W 0-2 FA Cup
13 Aug 2000 Chelsea v Manchester United L 2-0 FA Charity Shield
17 Dec 2002 Manchester United v Chelsea W 1-0 League Cup
---Mourinho took over Chelsea---
12 Jan 2005 Chelsea v Manchester United D 0-0 League Cup
26 Jan 2005 Manchester United v Chelsea L 1-2 League Cup
19 May 2007 Chelsea v Manchester United L 1-0 FA Cup
05 Aug 2007 Chelsea v Manchester United W 1-1 FA Community Shield
---Mourinho Left Chelsea---
21 May 2008 Chelsea v Manchester United W 1-1 UEFA Champions League
09 Aug 2009 Chelsea v Manchester United L 2-2 FA Community Shield
08 Aug 2010 Chelsea v Manchester United W 1-3 FA Community Shield
06 Apr 2011 Chelsea v Manchester United W 0-1 UEFA Champions League
12 Apr 2011 Manchester United v Chelsea W 2-1 UEFA Champions League
31 Oct 2012 Chelsea v Manchester United L 5-4 League Cup
10 Mar 2013 Manchester United v Chelsea D 2-2 FA Cup
01 Apr 2013 Chelsea v Manchester United L 1-0 FA Cup

https://www.11v11.com/teams/manchester-united/tab/opposingTeams/opposition/Chelsea/

 

[Ikon]

I'm still waiting to see how the other top 6 clubs fared in this period...?
Is there a major difference in points won..?