Best CB pairing

[ravi2]

I'm surprised to see Jones's name mentioned in some of the posts here, he got injured again today for fecks sake.
Enough is enough, he has got to go. SAF sold Raf for the same reason.

 

[Woodzy]

The fact that we haven't known who our best back four are since Rio, Evra and Vidic all left after 5+ fecking seasons is frustrating.

 

[arnie_ni]

Is it just a coincidence that our worst defensive start to a season happens after jose criticising or defenders all sunmer long?

We let in 9 goals at home all last season, 3 today.

Yes they are great but they've never been this bad, is there any link?

 

[Sylar]

We don't have a leader meaning our best cb pairing will change game by game as each one of our defenders has a mistake in them

Honestly think it has to be rojo + 1 as he's the only one who can play lcb

 

[Keeps It tidy]

The fact that we haven't known who our best back four are since Rio, Evra and Vidic all left after 5+ fecking seasons is frustrating.

Any Mourinho usually finds his best CB pairing pretty quickly ad sticks with them. His first stint in Chelsea he had Terry/Carvalho, at Inter the second season he settled on Samuel/Lucio, At the Real the second season he settled on Ramos/Pepe and at Chelsea he played Terry/Cahill basically every minute together in the PL.

 

[simpandenstore]

Why not Lindelöf in the back instead of herrera?! When we have played with a back three Lindelöf has played better. How can a player exceed and keep faith in themself if they get benched every other game?

How awful our CBs can be, pick two and keep them together even if we lose and play bad.

 

[Bobski]

Our best defensive set up doesn't have Ander fecking Herrera playing right side CB.

Picking him there was classic Jose self sabotage to try and embarrass the club on a big night.

 

[Slevs]

As I said before, new signing 1 and new signing 2.

Bailly and Lindeloff as 3rd and 4th choice respectively.

Get the chuckle brothers out of my club. Best CB pairing my arse.

 

[ypsipeos]

These words come from 15 years back - the "invincibles" season, when Rio had an 8 month ban. These words come from the wise encyclopedia of quotes called redcafe.net.


Quote No. 1
" This defense lacks of a leader. A tough tackler, who will be capable to close every gap and take the leadership of this young defense. What we need is a Stam or a Bruce, someone who is not afraid to get stuck in, not because he is loyal to the team (every member of our team is loyal to our cause) but because it is in his DNA to do so. Someone unbeatable on air and reckless on pass to feet attacks. In few words someone who is capable to scare the hell out of any striker. "

Quote No. 2
" "We should have signed a defender..." Yadda feckin yadda.

If you think the solution to every problem is to buy-buy-buy, then you're opinion is quite frankly, laughable.

Players cannot just walk into a team, especially defenders, and command a back line. Partnerships need to be formed between quality players. "

----

You know what happened next? We bought Vidic and problem was solved. Only when we bought him (2006) we sorted out a proper back 4 line. Only when we bought Hargreaves we had the needed tenacity in our midfield. And so on.

Yes, sometimes Fergie could win with a Carrick-Fletcher CB pair and it was all about chemistry. But there is no Fergie, no Queiroz and no Meulensteen in our team. And there is no chemistry any more.

On the one hand you can talk about tactics when you have the skilled players to do so. So, simple logic says we should have bought a leader and not Lindeloff.

 

[Ekeke]

These words come from 15 years back - the "invincibles" season, when Rio had an 8 month ban. These words come from the wise encyclopedia of quotes called redcafe.net.


Quote No. 1
" This defense lacks of a leader. A tough tackler, who will be capable to close every gap and take the leadership of this young defense. What we need is a Stam or a Bruce, someone who is not afraid to get stuck in, not because he is loyal to the team (every member of our team is loyal to our cause) but because it is in his DNA to do so. Someone unbeatable on air and reckless on pass to feet attacks. In few words someone who is capable to scare the hell out of any striker. "

Quote No. 2
" "We should have signed a defender..." Yadda feckin yadda.

If you think the solution to every problem is to buy-buy-buy, then you're opinion is quite frankly, laughable.

Players cannot just walk into a team, especially defenders, and command a back line. Partnerships need to be formed between quality players. "

----

You know what happened next? We bought Vidic and problem was solved. Only when we bought him (2006) we sorted out a proper back 4 line. Only when we bought Hargreaves we had the needed tenacity in our midfield. And so on.

Yes, sometimes Fergie could win with a Carrick-Fletcher CB pair and it was all about chemistry. But there is no Fergie, no Queiroz and no Meulensteen in our team. And there is no chemistry any more.

On the one hand you can talk about tactics when you have the skilled players to do so. So, simple logic says we should have bought a leader and not Lindeloff.

Hargreaves who failed in midfield and turned into a RB. Carrick and Fletcher provided the tenacity in midfield

 

[Frank Grimes]

I'm surprised to see Jones's name mentioned in some of the posts here, he got injured again today for fecks sake.
Enough is enough, he has got to go. SAF sold Raf for the same reason.

Raf?

 

[ypsipeos]

Hargreaves who failed in midfield and turned into a RB. Carrick and Fletcher provided the tenacity in midfield

First of all this is not the point. Second, you are wrong.

 

[Ekeke]

First of all this is not the point. Second, you are wrong.

First of all he played plenty of games, then was dropped and Carrick and Fletcher were first choice. Second, he played right back when he couldnt get in the team in midfield

 

[ypsipeos]

First of all he played plenty of games, then was dropped and Carrick and Fletcher were first choice. Second, he played right back when he couldnt get in the team in midfield

He also played right MF in the CHL final... also a tactical choice.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Fletcher did not play that much during the CL win season and Hargreaves did not play that many games at RB. And if anyone was the first choice midfield that season it was Carrick/Scholes

 

[ypsipeos]

Really, it was Hargreaves who provided the much needed tenacity in big games. Not saying others were offering nothing. But he made our midfield work better. He added something we were missing. Don't forget that he almost always ran the most kilometers for our team.
The next year Fletcher was colossal. We missed him in the final and I believe we were lightweight without him.

Again, this is not what I was trying to say.
We should stay on topic.


Now that I am clear of what is the meaning of mentioning Hargreaves, even if you don't agree that he added something to our midfield, you understand that sometimes a good transfer solves problems and raises the level of a whole line.

Stam, Rio, Vidic... All of them prove that you can buy a -proven or not- defender and if he knows his job he solves your problem.
Lindeloff and Rojo had nothing to add. Simply, second choice defenders.

 

[ravi2]

Raf?

Raphael

 

[Frank Grimes]

Raphael

Rafael? LVG sold him.

 

[MuFc_1992]

Am I the only one who thinks Mou's system makes our defensive weaknesses worse. LVG has McNair and Blackett yet managed to dominate games. Yes, His system had fundamental flaw but my point is if you impose yourself on the opposition than they get less chances to exploit your defensive weakness. I honestly think that City would still win the title of we swapped all our CBs for theirs although we'll do a bit better with their CBs

 

[whatwha]

Picking a "best" CB pairing at Man Utd reminds me of the old saying:

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

 

[MuFc_1992]

Picking a "best" CB pairing at Man Utd reminds me of the old saying:

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

So true

 

[ToToMarshall]

Am I the only one who thinks Mou's system makes our defensive weaknesses worse. LVG has McNair and Blackett yet managed to dominate games. Yes, His system had fundamental flaw but my point is if you impose yourself on the opposition than they get less chances to exploit your defensive weakness. I honestly think that City would still win the title of we swapped all our CBs for theirs although we'll do a bit better with their CBs

City would get annihilated by anyone who pressed their backline if our CBs were asked to play the ball the way theirs are. Stones gets some stick but none of our defenders come close to how good he is with the ball at his feet, and Laporte's great at it too. Otamendi's ok at it, Kompany can be a bit clumsy, but both are still better than what we have, with the exception of maybe Lindelöf, but then when you take in to account how bad Lindelöf is at defending space, they wouldn't sniff at him anyway.

 

[MuFc_1992]

City would get annihilated by anyone who pressed their backline if our CBs were asked to play the ball the way theirs are. Stones gets some stick but none of our defenders come close to how good he is with the ball at his feet, and Laporte's great at it too. Otamendi's ok at it, Kompany can be a bit clumsy, but both are still better than what we have, with the exception of maybe Lindelöf, but then when you take in to account how bad Lindelöf is at defending space, they wouldn't sniff at him anyway.

I think Lindelof would be decent enough for their system and he'd have a lot more options when playing the ball out from the back. I know our defenders are not terrific on the ball but our system (or lack thereof) makes their tasks harder than it should be.

 

[Davs]

We don't have one... there aren't any standouts between the lot of them.

If you're wanting an answer then it's whichever two are in form at the current moment.

Pretty shocking we don't have standout options at CB.

 

[red4ever 79]

I can only pick one and that is Smalling. I dont think he is particularly top class, just that he is better than the rest and is less injury prone. Then we have to narrow down our options. Jones, Rojo, Lindelof or Bailly. You can discount Lindelof immediately as the guy is out of his depth. Jones has a mistake in him every match and is injury prone. So we are down to Rojo and Bailly. Neither inspire me in anyway but the best to play alongside Smalling of a bad bunch. Shambolic recruitment over the years

 

[FootyGirl88]

1) Smalling Bailly
2) Jones Rojo

Lindelof doesn't need to be anywhere near the team. The first pairing need to play all PL and CL games. The second pair need to just play the cups excluding the CL. We should not rotate unless necessary.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Once again it really says something that it is his third season here but, Mourinho himself admitted that he does not know his best CB pair.

 

[Problem-free Philosophy]

Our defenders (CBs in particular):

- No composure
- Injury prone
- Prone to positional errors
- Seemingly inept at defending set pieces
- Terrible on the ball
- No leadership

If we could somehow get the best traits of all our defenders and combine them into one we'd have one very good defender - even then, probably not a brilliant one.

More of a best of a bad bunch CB pairing. I would say Bailly (because he's young and biggest faults seem to come from a lack of composure, which should improve in time) and Smalling (because he's the least injury prone and probably the best defender we have as long as it's not having to defend a corner - especially against Kompany). Smalling is infuriatingly terrible on the ball though.

I think if Bailly had a calm, experienced, authoritative CB next to him it would work wonders.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

It was Smalling and Blind. God knows now, maybe if Rojo can regain some form he's an option.

 

[JB7]

Smalling + Bailly should be the best by a distance IMO but they don't appear to play well together, but then Rojo, Lindelof and Jones are so far off I'd rather give those two time to forge a partnership as they're easily the best two defenders.

Clearly, Smalling + Alderweireld or Bailly + Alderweireld would be 10 times better considering how Smalling and Bailly both need a calming presence alongside them but Ed knows best right?

 

[11101]

Still haven't changed my opinion too much.

Bailly has the most ability but he is rash.
Rojo is good but wild, and he has the right mentality.
Smalling is decent at most things but lacks awareness and confidence on the ball.
Lindelof is composed on the ball but the game is moving too fast for him at the moment.
Jones is good but not quite good enough in any area.

Bailly and Lindelof have the most potential if they can form a partnership but neither can impose themselves on a game yet.

Smalling is our most reliable but his style of only playing what's directly in front of him makes it hard for his partner.

I think a back 3 of Bailly Smalling and Rojo might be worth a try. They're all strong defenders, two of them are good on the ball, and Smalling in the middle separates the two hotheads.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

It was Smalling and Blind. God knows now, maybe if Rojo can regain some form he's an option.

Has to be one of my favorite players that has ever left unnecessarily

 

[Beagle]

.
On the one hand you can talk about tactics when you have the skilled players to do so. So, simple logic says we should have bought a leader and not Lindeloff.

Lindelof sounds like a leader? Would you not have his leadership?

 

[ToToMarshall]

My opinions on our 5 centre-backs:

Bailly - best CB at the club all things considered, athletic, good natural defender, and better on the ball than many give him credit for. But he's unavailable so much that it makes forging partnerships difficult (as does José's mad rotation), and he can be so so rash - just hope that settles down as he matures.

Lindelöf - best ball-player we have in the position, but defensively he's all over the place at the moment. Wouldn't trust him in a 2 right now, but his contribution to our build-up from the middle of a back-three would be great.

Smalling - he's consistent(ish) I guess, and in certain systems where he gets the right protection his better attributes allow him to flourish. He's quick, and powerful - great shoulder to shoulder with any attacker, but surprisingly poor in the air for a guy of his stature. You know what you're going to get from him at least. Dreadful with the ball at his feet.

Rojo - could be vital if we want to play a back-five/three moving forward, as none of our other CBs are at all comfortable on the left side of a three. Major hot head, wildly unpredictable, and rash, but in a way I kind of like that about him. He deserves a go in the team when he comes back from injury.

Jones - What does he actually excel at? The other 4 all have flaws, but they all also have some outstanding attributes, what are Phil's? He's good, to ok, to mediocre at everything, and he's got a miserable injury record. Think José likes him because he's somewhat level-headed, not as panicky as Lindelöf and Smalling can be, and not as crazy as Bailly and Rojo can be.

-------------------------------De Gea
----------------------Bailly---Lindelöf---Rojo
---------------Valencia-----------------------Shaw

I really want to see this tried out and given a chance. Think it'd be our most balanced set-up right now.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

My opinions on our 5 centre-backs:

Bailly - best CB at the club all things considered, athletic, good natural defender, and better on the ball than many give him credit for. But he's unavailable so much that it makes forging partnerships difficult (as does José's mad rotation), and he can be so so rash - just hope that settles down as he matures.

Lindelöf - best ball-player we have in the position, but defensively he's all over the place at the moment. Wouldn't trust him in a 2 right now, but his contribution to our build-up from the middle of a back-three would be great.

Smalling - he's consistent(ish) I guess, and in certain systems where he gets the right protection his better attributes allow him to flourish. He's quick, and powerful - great shoulder to shoulder with any attacker, but surprisingly poor in the air for a guy of his stature. You know what you're going to get from him at least. Dreadful with the ball at his feet.

Rojo - could be vital if we want to play a back-five/three moving forward, as none of our other CBs are at all comfortable on the left side of a three. Major hot head, wildly unpredictable, and rash, but in a way I kind of like that about him. He deserves a go in the team when he comes back from injury.

Jones - What does he actually excel at? The other 4 all have flaws, but they all also have some outstanding attributes, what are Phil's? He's good, to ok, to mediocre at everything, and he's got a miserable injury record. Think José likes him because he's somewhat level-headed, not as panicky as Lindelöf and Smalling can be, and not as crazy as Bailly and Rojo can be.

-------------------------------De Gea
----------------------Bailly---Lindelöf---Rojo
---------------Valencia-----------------------Shaw

I really want to see this tried out and given a chance. Think it'd be our most balanced set-up right now.

Do you really think any of those three are better than Smalling?

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

What is Bailly doing to still be considered our best centre back? He's been very poor for a long time. Even when he managed to get on the pitch last season, he had numerous poor performances, and he wsn't good through pre-season or the opening two games. There was a lot of promise shown in that first season, but he's not kicked on.

And he's terrible in the air. He has to improve on that enormously if he wants to be even a good centre back, nevermind a top class one. I don't see him going from being useless in the air to being anywhere near reliable any time soon, but I hope I'm wrong.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

What is Bailly doing to still be considered our best centre back? He's been very poor for a long time. Even when he managed to get on the pitch last season, he had numerous poor performances, and he wsn't good through pre-season or the opening two games. There was a lot of promise shown in that first season, but he's not kicked on.

And he's terrible in the air. He has to improve on that enormously if he wants to be even a good centre back, nevermind a top class one. I don't see him going from being useless in the air to being anywhere near reliable any time soon, but I hope I'm wrong.

He is much like Martial. He had a very promising first season and it has been assumed that he will translate that into consistent top level performances. The substance isn't there yet.

 

[ToToMarshall]

Do you really think any of those three are better than Smalling?

Maybe not right now, but in my mind, for the most balance of back-threes, he can only play on the right. If we want to play a back-three, Rojo has to play, everybody else is crap on that left-hand side. Smalling's not good enough on the ball to play in the centre of a three. You could play Smalling on the right and move Bailly to the middle, but then I worry about Bailly and Rojo next to eachother. My main issue with playing Smalling, is that yes he might be in better nick than them right now, I think the back-three I suggested at the very least has the most potential to grow.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Maybe not right now, but in my mind, for the most balance of back-threes, he can only play on the right. If we want to play a back-three, Rojo has to play, everybody else is crap on that left-hand side. Smalling's not good enough on the ball to play in the centre of a three. You could play Smalling on the right and move Bailly to the middle, but then I worry about Bailly and Rojo next to eachother. My main issue with playing Smalling, is that yes he might be in better nick than them right now, I think the back-three I suggested at the very least has the most potential to grow.

I just think Smalling has been our best centre back by a comfortable distance since Sir Alex retired. I don't want this to sound like more Jose bashing because there has been too much of that since Monday but one of the few good things about Van Gaal's team was the defensive pairing of Smalling and Blind which showed genuine potential, I do not have a clue why he decided to break them up.

I do agree on Rojo, I think he has been too inconsistent but as far as putting together a run of performances at centre back Rojo would be next in line to partner Smalling if he can recapture his form from before his injury last year.

 

[Kostov]

Smalling and Bailly is our best CB pairing. Let's hope they play against Burnley, and have a good game.